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Islanders Forward Payroll: Living cheaply - for now

If Nino Niederreiter made the 2010 Islanders, his cap hit would be 15-17% of the Islanders' cap investment at forward.

Last week around these here parts, we looked at Garth Snow's summer renovation project on the blueline, as well as a peek back at just how different the roster was entering Scott Gordon's first season.

Playing off that idea, I wanted to compare the forward picture today with the one in 2008, from a money allocation kind of way. You know what that means? Tables, baby.

The contrast between 2008 and 2010 is stark and, for the most part, promising. The high-paid veterans of two seasons ago are either gone or reduced to supporting roles at cheaper rates, while younger (and cheaper) guys with higher ceilings are taking over. However, comparing the picture at forward today with how we projected it might look back in February does highlight how Snow's focus this summer has been purely on the blueline. The Islanders are living thriftily at forward right now, but raises loom next summer.

All figures below, via CapGeek, are cap hit (including potential bonuses and averaged salary) unless otherwise noted. Lineup-wise, I have made some assumptions to fill out this roster, which assumes 2 goalies + 8 defensemen = 13 forwards to fill out the opening 23-man roster.

Star-divide

With those assumptions, numerically it's all the same regardless of which Tom, Dick and Harry you choose for your Matt ($852k), Jesse ($850k) or Rhett ($850k) type of 13th forward roles. Only the addition of a major free agent forward or the addition of a entry-level forward like Kirill Petrov, Kirill Kabanov or Nino Niederreiter would change things. (For example, if Nino made the team on a top-pick's entry level deal with a cap hit near $3 - 3.5 million, it could represent about 15-17 percent of the Isles' investment at forward.)

2010-11 Islanders Forwards

LW C RW
Moulson
$2.45M
Tavares
$3.75M
Okposo
$1.672M
Bailey
$1.725M
Nielsen
$525k
Comeau
$650k
Joensuu
$850k
Schremp
$751k
Hunter
$2.0M
Gillies
$500k
Konopka
$600k
Parentau
$600k
Sim/Weight
$650k/???
-Totals-
$6.175M $5.625M $4.922M
Forward sum: $16.722M

Obviously if and when Doug Weight re-signs, he could bump these figures up a bit -- although it's fair to wonder how much his base salary will be given his lengthy rehab, the fact the Isles are probably his only option, and the likelihood he wouldn't be 100% on Day 1. Regardless, you'd figure he'd have a few "best case" veteran bonuses in there that would push his cap hit up over his two-way Bridgeport Shuttle replacement.

Also, I'm never sure where to account for these but, Alexei Yashin's buyout theoretically adds another $4.75 million to the money sunk into "forwards."

2008-09 Islanders Forwards

LW C RW
Sim
$1.0M
Weight
$4.3M
Guerin
$4.5M
Bergenheim
$863k
Comrie
$4.0M
Hunter
$2.0M
Tambellini
$588k
Nielsen
$525k
Okposo
$1.672M
Hilbert
$675k
Sillinger
$2.2M
Park
$750k
Bailey
$1.725M
~Totals~
$3.126M $12.75M $8.922M
Forward sum: $24.8M

In 2008, a few things happened that affected this season-opening look: Bailey stayed with the team but was injured during the early months of the season. Sillinger was injured from the get-go, his return long-delayed and, ultimately, unsuccessful. Blake Comeau broke camp down in the minors but eventually came back up for good (while Tambellini went down for a mid-winter restoration). Ultimately those moves don't affect the numbers much. Sillinger was on the books all year while the Islanders cycled various call-ups and enforcers into the lineup as needed.

In sum though, you have just short of $17 million (cap dollars) being spent on a group of forwards today that is remarkably healthier, far happier to be here and probably much better than the group that cost the Isles nearly $25 million two seasons ago.

As Brooks Laich told the Sporting News the other day:

"The New York Islanders have a lot of good young hockey players— they’re capable. I know their players work hard, and I know from our games it’s never easy to play them."

That probably couldn't have been said about the group two seasons ago -- particularly with the Islanders' go-to forwards all battling injury or veterans' ennui during that perfect storm of a lottery-winning season. Today, if the Isles' "good young hockey players" combine with an upgraded defense to produce some results with their hard work, they won't be a cheap forward group for long.

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Garth has done a good job keeping the long term salary very low so we don’t have a Chicago Blackhawks situation on our hands. People want to blame Wang for not letting Snow spend as the reason we are always near the floor, but I think this is Garth’s call. He saw what the Blackhawks did and did not want to have to trade away half his team once they all reached 27 or 28. And even if Wang IS putting a financial constraint on Garth, it is actually helping them out in the long term.

Officially applying for the open Color Commentator position!

by The Fitz on Aug 23, 2010 1:28 PM EDT reply actions  

It’s just that you hate to see the young kids playing in a culture of losing and getting used to it. They might start to think that’s it’s the normal and okay.
Chicago might have strapped themselves but they won a Cup in the process and experienced winning (that’s invaluable) and now they expect to win evrytime they take the ice. Which is a great frame of mind for the young players, not to mention the fanbase. Your point about the salary is a valid one though.

by Lindas1st on Aug 23, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, Chicago strapped themselves with the Campbell and Huet deals, which were insane the day they were signed. And they sucked for far longer (basically the entire decade), so picks really fell into place and matured right as ol’ Wirtz died and left the keys.

I think what Snow is doing is a harder task than what Chicago had, but he also should be able to avoid their mistakes.

Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.

by Dominik on Aug 24, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah-right, kind of ironic though- Wirtz’s death was probably the main reason the Hawks came back to life.

by Lindas1st on Aug 24, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chicago’s picks are almost insanity. They had a top 3 pick for like 5 straight seasons.

Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Aug 24, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow, we paid comrie 4 mil? gross

welcome to MSG, where 2 out of 5 vendors are safe to eat from!

by bob l on Aug 23, 2010 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

The Isles were eager to pay someone like Comrie 4 mil cause it also put an actress in the seats. LOL

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on Aug 24, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just curious...

Is there any way to find out whom each player employs as an agent?
 In trying to figure out the chicken/egg dynamic of the players/coaches signed since Snow has been GM, I wonder if the agents played a significant role.
When you add performance/salary to the dynamic DP, Guerin and Weight(US BORN PLAYERS) in 2008-09 were GROSSLY OVERPAID. Guerin’s salary was cut in half when the Pens had to pay the whole thing. You are assuming that Weight will get something near the league minimum, as he contributed the league minimum last year…. but he’d have been the padding to get from the re-builders-grade carpeting to the salary cap floor had they needed such padding. DP continues to be the highest paid ACTIVE Islander… while he sits in a tub and rides a bicycle most of the year… and will make more than $30mm for basically have a GM and an idiot owner fall in love with him… In a way he’s the team’s Donnie Brasco.
It makes you wonder how comfortable Snow was with their agent(s)… as in, do they KICK BACK and have the occasional beer.
You’d hope that DP’s agent at least let’s Snow use his house in the Hamptons for a few weeks.


Seen here, Lefty Milbury explains that when Chucky Red opens up the books Donnie DiPietro will be a very wealthy and safe man… Little does he know that Donnie was going to take the whole team organizaton down.

My cup is 3/4 empty, How 'bout yours?

by JPinVA on Aug 23, 2010 3:40 PM EDT reply actions  

The less you know of player agents, the better. I remember Milbury was constantly arguing through the press with Paul Kraus. I think Snow sits down and offers players a fair amount without haggling back and forth over pennies.

It’s bad for fans when it’s obvious who someones agent is because that means they are arguing publicly over money.

Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Aug 23, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not necessarily

You’re saying it IS bad because of the reason you know the players agent. I’m saying that it would add some insight to the process. It would make the off season a little more interesting if you could use GM/Agent histrionics to come to more well thought out scenarios for your team.
If GMx has a history with AGENT1, then players repped by AGENT1 would have an advantage in negotiations with GMx. The reverse situation exists as well. In it’s current state the media only reports when AGENT1 has a negative encounter with GMx.
In my scenario it wouldn’t be a GOOD or BAD thing to know who the agents involved are… just more information.

My cup is 3/4 empty, How 'bout yours?

by JPinVA on Aug 23, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I agree with what your saying, that a friendly relationship with an agent might lead to more of that agents players talking with the team.

But what I’m saying is that as fans when we know an agent, it’s usually not for a good reason.

Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Aug 23, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agents

There’s no comprehensive record (at least not a public one) of players’ agents, but some of the agents squawk and toot their horn, so you know about them.

But Guerin and Weight: That was an easy combo of: 1) reaching the floor and 2) giving them enough to come to this joint (Guerin in particular). Comrie too, in a way (Options before me: I can make $2 million continuing my role as a lesser winger on a contender, or I can make twice that and get a chance to show I’m big time. Hmmm…)

I do think for some guys the agent’s relationship to the GM helps grease the wheels. Walsh clearly is happy with Snow.

Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.

by Dominik on Aug 23, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I assume Walsh is Ricky’s business consiglieri… When people talk about how great Snow’s signings have been they only mention Streit, Roloson and Moulson. They forget about what they did to Guerin, “oh yeah, here’s your jersey for the press conference…”, "WTF, there is a “C” on it….", “and now the NEW CPATAIN OF THE NEW YORK ISLANDERS…”
Or the re-signing of Comrie… who was clearly injured and continued to be so. I kind of liked the idea of giving him a shot at a bigger role with the Isles the first time… but HELLO… he couldn’t break a mirror with his slapshot in his first go around.
I just don’t know if Snow was THAT desperate, or if he really thought these guys were going to make the team better… we’ll see… especially if weight gets a contract… where there really doesn’t seem to be an NHL role for him besides uber-nanny.

My cup is 3/4 empty, How 'bout yours?

by JPinVA on Aug 23, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm still trying to figure out

…whether Ricky is a “friend of mine” or a “friend of ours.”

Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.

by Dominik on Aug 24, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Brasco

Lefty Wang to Donnie Milbury

“He’s a fugazi, but you go ahead and sign him if you want to look like a dumskie”

by MatthewM11 on Aug 23, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

The interesting question is....

(and you alluded to it in the last line)

What will the forwards cost in 2011-12 and beyond.

Moulson — assuming he repeats his numbers from last year, will be an RFA with a $3-3.5mil value.

Tavares — last year of his entry deal $3.75 mil

Okposo — will be looking for a significant raise after finishing his EL deal, and will likely get it, especailly if he takes on the leadership rle we are all expecting from him.

Bailey — again will be finishing his EL contract, and will be looking for a raise. Whether he gets it will depend on his performance this year.

Frans — $525K for 2011-12, and then look out: He will be due a BIG raise.

Comeau — After a year at $650K, will be an RFA.

JJ — Cap geek doesn’t have a number for him.

RSH — RFA after a $750K year.

Hunter — two more years at $2 mil — and good value for that.

I ignore the bottom four on the list because they will not likely be significant considerations. To that mix, we need to add Nino and the Kirills.

It will be interestiing to see how Garth deals with that.

by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Aug 23, 2010 5:16 PM EDT reply actions  

JJ and Comeau have a good chance of the Islanders letting them walk. It depends a lot on their production this season. JJ is making 65K in BP and 650K if he plays in the NHL.

I still think Frans is one of the most underrated players on the Islanders. Unless he gets nominated for the Selke, he’ll probably be cheap for what he does to bring him back.

Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Aug 23, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Frans is by far and away under rated by everyone in the leagues, including the guys that make NHL 10. Still at Bridgeport and rated a 72 out of 100? yuck.

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on Aug 24, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

wow, he was a 71 in my 2k8 game. I guess it depends though, if he has insane Defensive stats then it’s fine.

Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Aug 24, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bailey and Frans

Bailey’s going to be an interesting one. If I’m his agent, I push for short-term, because his ELC will end before he has fully shown what (they would believe) he is expected to do. Unless he has an insane 2010-11, of course.

Frans I almost hope has an agent who is looking to make up some money from his last deal. That man deserves a boost for doing what he does for NHL pocket change. Since he went for security last time around though, maybe he’ll be of the same mind (i.e. term over salary).

Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.

by Dominik on Aug 24, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Off Topic

But Goring is going to take over as Color Commentator on MSG.

Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Aug 23, 2010 5:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Eh, could be worse… I like Butchie but I’m worried with the Jaffe situation will neuter any color guy. Seriously anyone they hire at this point will just be a Wang sycophant.

There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.

by David Hanssen on Aug 23, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still go with what TMC said, just that there was never any official word from the Islanders about why Jaffe was not retained, and we can’t exactly trust Newsday/Dolan’s Dark Empire.

I think if the Islanders wanted to bring in someone just to be a sycophant, they would have brought in someone young who needed the job. I’m going to guess at 60 years old, Butchie has enough money that he can speak his mind and if they fire him he’s no worse for wear really.

Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Aug 23, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just don’t think this is a situation where we’d ever get the “real story” from either the deciders (the Islanders) or the deposed (Jaffe needs to not burn bridges in this closed industry).

So maybe there’s more to it, but it’s an odd story to come out if there isn’t something there. I suspect Goring is a compromise in that he’s still a fan fave, but he might get along better with whomever was offended, if someone was offended. He’s been around forever, whereas Billy might still have been an outsider in Wang’s world.

Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.

by Dominik on Aug 24, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Loving that high ceiling
In sum though, you have just short of $17 million (cap dollars) being spent on a group of forwards today that is remarkably healthier, far happier to be here and probably much better than the group that cost the Isles nearly $25 million two seasons ago.


+1 Nice way to sum that up!!!

by mdelbags on Aug 23, 2010 8:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Whoops...sorry

I’m still screwing up those block quotes!!

by mdelbags on Aug 23, 2010 8:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey, I’m vain — you can screw up all the block quotes you want if it’s in the form of a compliment.

Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.

by Dominik on Aug 24, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

czech republic

Am on a bike trip here and the country is mad about hockey only wish it were that way back home where let"s face it we are #4

by altosax on Aug 24, 2010 4:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Ha!

Awesome. Do share stories. And try all the beer you can, if that’s your thing. (If it’s not your thing, strongly consider making it your thing.)

Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.

by Dominik on Aug 24, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

(If it’s not your thing, strongly consider making it your thing.)

Could not agree more. One of the things that has surprised me about Minnesota is the quality of the local beer. Summit has surprised me with their quality and variety of beer they produce, including the best non-Czech Pils I’ve ever had. If anyone is in the Twin Cities I highly recommend taking the Summit Brewery tour. Its free and there’s free beer involved.

There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.

by David Hanssen on Aug 24, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

And on long island

I believe the Beer Garden in Queens has a lot of Czech beer and food. Good stuff seeing as I can’t remember, I take that as a good sign!

by Keith Quinn on Aug 24, 2010 3:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

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New York Islanders Roster

# Pos. DOB W H
Josh Bailey 12 LW 10/2/1989 190 6-1
Rick DiPietro 39 G 9/19/1981 190 6-1
Mark Eaton 4 D 5/6/1977 215 6-1
Michael Grabner 40 RW 10/5/1987 185 6-0
Travis Hamonic 3 D 8/16/1990 203 6-2
Milan Jurcina 27 D 6/7/1983 253 6-4
Andrew MacDonald 47 D 9/7/1986 196 6-1
Matt Martin 17 LW 3/8/1989 210 6-3
Al Montoya 35 G 2/13/1985 203 6-2
Mike Mottau 10 D 3/19/1978 190 6-0
Matt Moulson 26 LW 11/1/1983 205 6-1
Evgeni Nabokov 20 G 7/25/1975 200 6-0
Nino Niederreiter 25 RW 9/8/1992 205 6-2
Frans Nielsen 51 C 4/24/1984 184 6-0
Kyle Okposo 21 RW 4/16/1988 205 6-0
Jay Pandolfo 29 LW 12/27/1974 190 6-1
P.A. Parenteau 15 LW 3/24/1983 193 6-0
Rhett Rakhshani 49 RW 3/6/1988 190 5-10
Marty Reasoner 16 C 2/26/1977 205 6-1
Dylan Reese 42 D 8/29/1984 201 6-1
Brian Rolston 11 LW 2/21/1973 215 6-2
Steve Staios 24 D 7/28/1973 200 6-1
Mark Streit 2 D 12/11/1977 197 6-0
John Tavares 91 C 9/20/1990 202 6-0
Tim Wallace 36 RW 8/6/1984 207 6-1
Calvin de Haan 44 D 5/9/1991 187 6-1

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