Depth Signings: Andy Hilbert returns...and here's Rob Hisey
by Dominik on Aug 18, 2010 4:26 PM EDT
in Roster Manoeuvres in the Dark
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PrintThe question of who will man the pivots down in Bridgeport has come up a time or two, and we may have a few more answers in two low-level, two-way signings the Islanders announced today:
Andy Hilbert returns to the organization after a one-year hiatus with the Wild organization (all but four games of it spent outside the NHL). Also, much-traveled Rob Hisey, who will turn 26 in training camp, joins the Isles from AHL Springfield.
I've been thinking lately about who will handle the Islanders' faceoff duties now that Richard Park is gone. (Zenon Konopka should take up some of the slack, but is that enough? The young centers will need to improve.) While barring injury disaster -- not out of the question with this club -- I don't expect Hilbert to spend much time with the big club, even if he does he's not the answer in the faceoff department. Two years ago the "center" managed just 38.2% on 186 Islanders faceoffs. Worse, he didn't even bat .500 on powerplay faceoffs (winning 9 of 28), which is where even the worst faceoff takers typically at least tread water.
Even less is known about Hiser, though Michael Fornabaio writes that the diminutive-defined center "revitalized" the Falcons last season. He put up nearly 2 points/game in the CHL before notching 11-14-25 in 37 games with the Falcons, the AHL's worst team in 2009-10. In his mid-20s he's already had an enviable journey as far as journeymen go though: Getting paid to play hockey in Finland, Germany, Austria and Sweden -- all before reaching the age where a male driver's insurance rates finally drop for good.
Hey, it's not riveting, but August hockey news seldom is.
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Yes, they Probably will
And Bridgeport could use it.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
wow this is worse than the news of re-signing sim
This is the kind of news that makes me NOT want to go to a game. I was so happy when this no-talent player left the organization. And then we bring him back? Nothing like 2 steps forward 1 step back!! If he’s on the opening day roster I will be furious! Here’s a new poll idea: how many open nets will andy hilbert miss this season??
by orngfan on Aug 18, 2010 5:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Why?
This happens every August, with every club: They sign depth players to populate their AHL teams, and some of them are veterans who, if necessary, can fill an emergency NHL role. I wouldn’t worry about it.
Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.
Nobody seemed outraged that the Isles signed PA Parantau. How is this any different? Its different because Andy was here before and some didn’t understand the subtleties of his role and think he’s a scrub because he didn’t score 50 points. When the Islanders signed Moulson last year; granted he was younger and had less NHL experience, but essentially it was the same thing; a depth signing. Of course Matt proved himself in camp. Andy will either show garth and gordon that he deserves a spot on the roster or he will go down to BP and score a point per game. Orngfan’s attitude seems to be pretty common around here but I don’t understand how something like this could outrage anyone. I mean its just not that big of deal.
by MatthewM11 on Aug 18, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Are you joking.
This is the kind of news that makes me NOT want to go to a game
Seriously? How is this even a big deal. Even if you hate Hilbert (I couldn’t understand why, he’s just another competent defensive forward) Its not like we’re likely to see him much. I apologize if you’re just being sarcastic and mocking all the people who were outraged that Sim was also given a two-way contract.
The #11 shirt
I think Nate Thompson was run out of town because he had the gall to take Hilbert’s number.
Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.
good to have some veteran depth at bridgeport
plus these guys might push the young guys a little because they want to be in the NHL and no their time to play there has come to an end. they can play hard and push guys to play haard
Top six forward
If Snow is still looking for a top six forward wake me up when he does……… I think I might be sleeping until next fall 2011
On the other hand, if Snow is still looking for additional depth signings to reach the cap floor, I’m available from the beer league ranks. I’ll take league minimum at a 15-year term, kthnx.
Hope you like riding the bus and babysitting kids 10 years younger
‘Cause that’s what’s in store for Sim and Hilbert.
Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.
Depth signings for Bridgeport do not count against the cap.
And the Isles are there, anyway. Come on.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 18, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes-
Trust me, the salaries of players in the AHL do not count against the cap. Why else do you think Rangers fans for example want Wade Redden to be part of the Wolfpack?
And also trust me, the Isles will not need to do anything ridiculous to make the cap floor.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 18, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh OK.
So you knew that these signings have nothing to do with the Isles salary situation, you just said it to be funny? Alright. No need to be all “wow” about it. After all, you might be surprised at the things people dont know about hockey. You know how many hundreds of times during Baileys rookie season people bashed Snow for not playing him in Bridgeport?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 19, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
This may not be important news for you but this is how you build an organization. If you’re waiting for Garth to sign some flashy 40 goal scoring superstar you can go back to sleep because its not going to happen. Just to put this in perspective, last year the Islanders signed Matt Moulson. Everyone shrugged and went about there business, figuring he was just another depth signing for Bridgeport. I’m not suggesting Andy Hilbert or Rob Hisey are going to be this year’s Matt Moulson but these depth signings are important. Injuries will happen. Prospects will struggle. You’ll be happy Hilbert is here in February
???
I assure you Matt Moulson was real, not a dream.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 18, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
Dreaming about what? That makes no sense whatsoever. I’m the one being realistic, letting you know that if you are waiting for some big free agent to be signed its not going to happen. I’m looking at these signings realistically, for what they are. They are nothing to get riled up about. And sometimes these signings work out very well, as in the case of Matt Moulson.
I changed my mind. Screw the Islanders! I’m done! Andy Hilbert has never even scored 50 goals in a season and they are giving him a two way contract. The nerve of Garth Snow. Look what happened last year. They wasted money on some scrub named Matt Moulson and he couldn’t even score 40 goals. Seriously, I say we boycott. Screw Bridgeport too. Why should we waste money on them. They should get three forwards, two defenseman and a goalie and thats it. We should go find some amateurs up in canada and pay them in beer and peanuts and put them in bridgeport.
What do ya mean? I’m in Canada, and would play for beer and peanuts, though I wouldn’t be that cheap given the volume of beer I consume!!
Nearly enough defensemen to last through the injury bug
Well I advocate Garth sign you to a two-way contract then. I think league minimum is 500K so as long as the equivalent amount of beer and peanuts in enough. That is if you are good enough to make the big team. I don’t know what the league minimum is in the AHL but I would guess it would quite a bit lower, so you might have survive on Milwaukee’s best down there. If people are so outraged about Sim and Hilbert getting contracts then why not drop them and give you a chance. Are you any good?
HA!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 18, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
We sign two centers with a team that’s already overstocked with Centers or possible Centers (JT, Bailey, Schremp, Frans, Zenon, Weight) so these two are almost assured of going to BP and people are upset? These signings will have almost no effect on the Pro team, other then hopefully they can help along some of the prospects games.
Really, what do you expect the Islanders to do? Start drafting more centers? There are plenty of guys in the system anyway, but they are a year or two away from BP. Someone has to be brought in to cover the gap.
Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Aug 18, 2010 6:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah i don’t get the outrage either. I think some are confused over what a two-way contract is, and assume that Hilbert is taking someone’s roster spot.
I think some are confused over what a two-way contract is
Ding!
And maybe its because they are so used to 2-way ROOKIE contracts where the players are up with us, that they are presuming these 2-way contracts are looked at and treated by organizations the same as the rookie ones. Which, of course, they are not.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 18, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, exactly. And if I hear one more fan whining about how Sim and Hilbert are “stealing” spots from Martin or Joensuee my head will explode.
Sucks for your head, Matt
-because youre gonna hear it ALL the time.
(Sorry, just preparing you lol.)
I recommend some type of a pressure-regulating hat so you can keep posting! :D
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 18, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh,
I’m a realist and it seems that martin deserves bottom 3 time IF he’s ready and jonesuu is still a work in progress. That said, I could see hilbert stepping in and being as good an overall fit for the 4th line as martin right now. Hilbert could also greatly help out our penalty kill on special teams if he makes the team. As for sim, the jury is out. Last season, sim played his most controlled hockey, from a penalty taking standpoint, in over 5 years while being a marginal +/- guy, proving he was a solid 4th line guy last year. BUT, in 08-09 sim was Mr.Hyde, taking a lot of penalties with his little playing time and being less effective overall and still a marginal +/- guy, showing he should be a depth forward. I don’t want to take the chance of getting an 08-09 sim by giving him a starting job. His job SHOULD be as a depth forward. my 2 cents.
And for the record, Parenteau deserves a 3rd/4th line spot more then sim, hilbert, martin, joensuu, gillies(lol), or weight. Possibly even nino if he’s ready.
Go isles or Go home.
My point was that those spots are still open for the taking. Nobody has taken anyones spot yet. Its up to the players and how they do in camp. IMO having more options isn’t a bad thing. And it will make Martin et al work that much harder. Like I said earlier I like Hilbert and if he shows Scott and Garth he deserves a spot than more power to him
I completely agree,
I was just giving my opinion on the topic. And I love what Hilbert brings to the table, so I have no problem with him in a starting bottom 6 role.
Go isles or Go home.
......wanted to check back.....
…..not looking like my friend will go with me to the Thursday game on the 16th in Boston; who from here at this moment is planning on going to at least one of the two games? As I said, tickets go on sale tomorrow – not sure if there’ll be a big turnout but, with Seguin in the spotlight, it might just hit 10K with a $5 investment at the window…..please let me know? Thanks!
Wow,
lot of hate for depth signings. Don’t go into crazy mode just yet, garth has time to get one more solid starter and the market is full of solid bottom 6 guys(even a handful of reliable and decent 3rd liners), one which I think we will sign or that hole will be filled by nino imo. That’s the big thing I believe. Garth thinks nino is ready, no more signings. Garth thinks nino isn’t ready, we sign one more solid player. That’s what I think garth is doing, but I could be wrong.
On the signings, I’m very pleased. Hilbert is a very defensive reliable forward and can easily fill a bottom 3 spot off an injury or as a starting job. Easily a 20-30pt guy if given the time. I’d love him as a depth guy. He’s no pareantu in potential, but he’s a great depth signing. And WE NEED forward depth right now. I’m not happy with our forward depth and am very happy our ahl is stronger now, or our 4th line is more defensively responsible if he gets the spot.
On Hisey. Meh. Ok signing. Will help bridgeport but I don’t think he could help our isles much unless we get a number of injuries. Good depth signing though for security.
I’m pleased and happy with the signings, but like everyone else I want one more solid top 9 forward that can be productive while playing physical or 2-way hockey with his game.
Go isles or Go home.
by OzzyFan on Aug 18, 2010 7:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
On the signings, I’m very pleased. Hilbert is a very defensive reliable forward and can easily fill a bottom 3 spot off an injury or as a starting job.
Exactly! Thank you Ozzy for bringing another sane voice to this conversation. I also don’t understand why people are up in arms about these signings. I am perplexed that this isn’t good news. More likely then not Hilbert is going to BP but he gives us another competent forward to step up in case of injury. Last year we were forced to dig deeper and deeper into Bridgeport for injury replacements (last season the problem was with D-men but this year it could just as easily be forwards) and I think Garth is doing what he can to shore up the depth at BP so that doesn’t happen again this year. I like Andy, always did. He did his job.
It's a simple reason why there's so much wrath.....
…..I liked both Andy and Jon as I’ve said but, more than anything else, these miniscule signings only remind a lot of us that the Islanders can’t be sufficiently attractive to most of the big free-agent players – it’s not really either of them that some fans are disgusted with, it’s the present circumstances…..
But
If the Isles signed big free-agent players it would be the kids THEY want to see so badly playing in Bridgeport instead of here! thats the part that really gets me. Its like people want the Isles to sign BIG NAME GUYS and at the same time play all of the kids in the NHL!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 18, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Great point,
but we really do need 1 more solid top 9 guy unless the isles organization is in love with pareantu.
Go isles or Go home.
I agree. I cant speak for anyone else but the way I interpreted the above post was that the same fans who gripe about prospects losing roster spots to vets like Sim are the same fans pushing for big FA signings.
I agree with you,
my post was an independent post from the first in the chain. I just wanted to explain my thoughts on Garth’s decision making as a whole right now. I have no problem at all, and actually love these great depth signings as you already know.
Go isles or Go home.
I have no problem at all, and actually love these great depth signings as you already know.
Yep, because you understand them for what they are. I think that the hostility to these signings some have expressed is due to misunderstanding the nature of them. Bottom line is that we will see in training camp if Martin or Joensuue are ready or not. Either way its important to have some options.
Yes that’s a good point. Not attracting big name free agents is a big problem that needs to be addressed. Building a good team, building a new rink..it won’t happen overnight. I think they are separate issues though. Whether or not we can attract the big name FAs we are still going to give out 2-way contracts to the Hilbert’s of the world. Every team does.
That time of year
Its seems that between the draft and training camp, Islander fans will pick the most mundane things to get outraged about. Before this it was Billy Jaffe leaving (I can understand some emotion there but still..) and before that letting the guy from Entourage announce a draft pick. Really? Of all the boneheaded decisions this franchise has made are we really going to get pissed that Garth gave Andy Hilbert a two way contract. I happen to like Andy but even if the guy absolutely sucks, this is still nothing more than a depth signing. He will likely play out the year in BP and have no affect on the salary cap. We have to fill that BP roster some way. Why not get a proven AHL veteran.
News just came over the wire, there is going to be a new building! with a very large locker room to accomodate all our :depth signings in BP
???
Im not sure what youre going for with this.
News is pretty much wireless now, for starters!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 18, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re acting like this is something new. Every year, every team signs a bunch of players to play in their AHL affiliate. And weren’t you the one who posted that we should be trying to find this year’s Matt Moulson? Do you realize that at this time last year Matt Moulson was seen as nothing more than a depth signing?
Over the wire is a media expression which means that something has just been reported. But in any case I must admit that I’m still stuck in the wind=up generation. I’m waiting for color TV to be perfected.
I’m not sure what this post means (wind=up, as opposed to what, down?) , so I’ll just respond to your general opinion. I have a little trouble deciphering most of your posts but from I can gather it seems that you think these signings are bad. Its nothing personal I just respectfully disagree. You see it is the organizations responsibility not only to have a full roster for their NHL team but also for their AHL affiliate. The AHL affiliate is extremely important, not just for developing prospects (as many prospects skip the AHL altogether) but also for maintaining depth in the organization for the inevitable injuries that occur at the NHL level. The AHL affiliate even has its own affiliate, and so on. Almost, but not exactly, like A, AA and AAA in baseball. Now some fans only care about the goings on of the big club. That is fair. If that’s the case with you (and it seems to be the case with you as you lack a fundamental understanding of the importance of the teams minor league affiliate) then just move on and don’t worry about these signings. Now for the rest of, who follow not only what goes on at the NHL level but also the minor leagues and junior hockey, this is important news.
Dont worry I get ya
Im old enough to have owned things like record players, a beeper, and even one of those t-shirts that said RELAX on it!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 18, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
If Frankie HAD relaxed, the Mets would have a closer right now.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 18, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
RELAX
MC I also had (and still have) LPs, and did have a beeper, but did you have a rotary dial phone? LOL, Hilbert on a two way contrcat? No big deal, depht for the Bridge, Im fine with it.
by Russel Ginart on Aug 19, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The first Islander game I saw...
Was on a nine inch black and white that got WOR with a line through it. The remote was a plyers that I had to use when the knob broke off the year before I became a hockey fan.
18 hadn’t even retired once.
Rotary phone, vinyl records and a big single speaker 8-track player that played background music like Zep, Boston, VH, Rush and Tull while we played street hockey with orange balls… blue in the winter!
In the summer we’d play marathon series against other blocks from 10:AM until the street lights came on… now I drive through my neighborhood and you’d think that all the kids you saw at the bus stop in the morning were eaten by golum when they got home.
My cup is 3/4 empty, How 'bout yours?
This is the most disturbing image I've seen on LHH yet
You sick twisted genius you.
My dad and I used to huddle around to watch hockey on a 5" black-and-white TV, but that was more because he was cheap. When he found out the thing didn’t even have an input for cable, he bucked up so we could catch out-of-town games.
Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.
i'm not outraged over depth signings
i just PLAIN AND SIMPLE do NOT like andy hilbert. we could have signed him to our ECHL affiliate and i’d be upset. i dont like him and i dont want him in the organization. taking dead weight (no pun intended) from previous bad teams and bringing them back in any capacity doesn’t make sense to me. i like MOVING FORWARD! not going backwards.
Sorry but this just sounds irrational to me. This is a non-issue being made into an issue… and there are people getting heated over what was from a rational objective POV a very logical, reasonable, and practical move.
This hatred that a few of you hold for someone you do not even know who has never done anything bad to you, ever, is something that perplexes me to the point where Id urge some of you to talk it through with a therapist. Seriously.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 19, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
seriously. uncalled for.
i can’t be a judge of hockey talent? i can’t determine andy hilbert’s performance at the NHL level to be lacking? we are all entitled to our own opinions and my opinion of andy hilbert is that he is not an NHL player. and clearly the minnesota wild felt the same way since he only played 4 nhl games last season (a team that had the 3rd worst record in the west). and since he came back to the islanders without what i’d assume to be any other offers, 29 other teams in the league feel the same way!
i dont hate him as a person! i dislike him as a hockey player.
why not give MIKE YORK a call and see if he wants to sign a 2 way contract!?!?!
You can definitely feel however you want.
And, so can I.
You feel like getting all upset over who will be a center in Bridgeport is a worthy usage of your time and energy, but I see it as a waste of time and energy.I feel like this is an unbelievably benign non-issue and that getting worked up over it is pointless. You dont.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 19, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
See, you are making a case regarding him as an NHL player whern theres no reason to even be LOOKING at him as an NHL player. Presuming that he will be up with the NHL team is IMO a pointless waste of time. I hope you see the clarification I am making- your post is full of assumptions, then youre getting mad because youre assuming your assumptions to all be true. If you dont see how that is prob not the best usage of your time and enerrgy I dont know what to tell you.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 19, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Your honor, I wrest his case.
then youre getting mad because youre assuming your assumptions to all be true.
Where were you when I needed a lawyer?
My cup is 3/4 empty, How 'bout yours?
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why are you assuming I wasnt there?
(taps you on shoulder and waves)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 19, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a feeling...
… that the Metal in your name has been tempered with loyalty through the thickest of thin!
But I can safely assume that you were not present for that occasion because if you were you’d have referenced my courtroom behavior at multiple opportunities…
My cup is 3/4 empty, How 'bout yours?
I wouldn’t mind if they called up Mike York and gave him a two-way contract. He could sure help out BP this year. Seriously though, I swear some fans hate any player who doesn’t score 20 goals every year. I think its a lack of understanding of the game and the different roles players have. You can say you hate Hilbert all you want but you have yet to give a rational explanation of why you think he sucks so much. I’d love to hear your reasoning. He, at the AHL level (where he will almost definitely spend all of next year) is a veteran all-star who can provide leadership and scoring. At the NHL level he is a decent (not great, not terrible) bottom six forward. He’s a journeyman depth guy who will spend his career bouncing between the AHL and NHL. There is nothing wrong with that. Guys like that are valuable to have. If you had never heard of this guy you would be fine with this, but because he was once an Islander and failed to score 20 goals you remember him as a scrub.
You seemed pretty outraged in your first post where you threatened to stop going to games and said you would be “furious” if he is on the opening day roster. Get a grip. OK, so you don’t like Andy Hilbert. That is fine. I’m not really sure what your problem with him is, as he was just a bottom six role player who was pretty competent in that role; but it is what it is. Just like with Minnesota last year, he is not likely to see a whole lot of time at the NHL level. Its not that Minnesota thought he was a bad player, they brought him to strengthen their AHL affiliate and fill in for injuries. He is perfect in this capacity for us as well. I would predict he will see limited ice-time in about 5-20 games at the NHL level. If that’s
From Copper and Blue, the oilers blog:
Not all hockey fans are as irrational as some Islander fans. In an article entitled “guys the oilers should at least call” an oiler fan named John Willis makes a good case why his team should go after Andy, pointing out his good defensive play and plus minus numbers when an Isle (I added the italics) :
Andy Hilbert has spent most of his career as a perpetual prospect, with the label “possible top-six forward” firmly affixed. It made sense; he scored very well in college and in the AHL, but somewhere along the way Hilbert made a transformation. Scoring stars who spend a lot of time in the minors seem to make one of two decisions:
1. Spend a lot of their career in Europe
2. Develop in other areas
Hilbert did the latter, turning into a defensively responsible, bottom-six guy. He got job with Chicago, and got picked up by Pittsburgh when the Blackhawks tried to send him back to the minors. He found himself on Sidney Crosby’s wing and scored 18 points in 19 games.
That was the situation in July of 2006, when Hilbert was signed as an unrestricted free agent by the Islanders. Despite that flash of offensive ability in Pittsburgh, his goal and point totals in New York have been underwhelming:
* 2006-07: 81GP – 8G – 20A – 28PTS
* 2007-08: 70GP – 8G – 8A – 16PTS
* 2008-09: 67GP – 11G – 16A – 27PTS
Yet, there is one thing that stands out about Hilbert: his plus/minus. Here are his numbers for those three seasons, and in brackets next to them the Islanders’ total plus/minus as a team:
* 2006-07: 10 (5)
* 2007-08: +2 (-51)
* 2008-09: -3 (-76)
* Totals: +9 (-122)
That’s significant. Andy Hilbert has consistently put up decent +/- numbers over three seasons with one of the NHL’s worst franchises. It isn’t easy to do that. It becomes more difficult given that Hilbert:
* routinely played against top opponents
* routinely played with poor linemates
* took far more defensive zone than offensive zone draws
Last season, Hilbert earned 700,000 $. He isn’t likely to get much of a raise on that this year; in fact, he may be in tight to get a regular NHL job at all. If the price is right, Hilbert could be at worst a very effective fourth-liner, and at best a possible replacement for Ethan Moreau on the third line. He’ll be useful on the penalty-kill and he’ll certainly do more to help the Oilers win hockey games than most of the young fringe guys looking for a lineup spot.
by MatthewM11 on Aug 19, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
BTW
Here is the link if any you want to read the comments, which are pretty positive to the idea of signing Andy http://www.coppernblue.com/2009/7/20/955577/guys-the-oilers-should-at-least. Granted this is from before last season but it shows that when you look at Andy’s time as an Islander is was a productive one. He was a good defensive forward. But don’t let actual numbers get in the way of your “I remember Andy and he sucked” arguments, please.
The role of the AHL
Catching up with your criticism of my objection to the recent depth signings. With respect everyone who comments understands that BP mut field a competetive team and also act as a reservoir for call-ups. My point is that Snow would be better off with more prospects playing in the AHL than going with retreads who have no future. So our disagreement is not about the concept of veterans playing at the bridge, but rather what is the correct mix. Frankly if the Isles don’t develop more NHL players by next season we will be having the same discussion with new depth signings.
Except that if the Isles are in the playoff hunt (as GS has stated the goal to be) and a Dman gets hurt – do you want Anton Klementyev to get another NHL tryout or solid AHLer Dylan Reese to fill in? How about if several checking line forwards go down? You gonna go with a “kid” line of prospects to do your checking in the critical game to make or break your playoff chance or Hilbert/Sim/Weight ?
Even though...
…Garth doesn’t have the resources to pull this off, the ideal situation is to have a replica AHL team waiting in the wings. Some pieces can be developing and some can be vets helping those prospects. But the ideal model is having 21 understudies ready to replace the NHL “stars”.
If a checking/PK LW goes down you have one of those, if a scoring RW goes down, you have one of those, if your third pair body mover goes down you have one of those…. and so on.
I would like to think that garth is moving towards that model. They do not have a top 2 center at the bridge, but at least now they could promote the reamaining centers and slot Andy into a third center role to help stop the bleeding.
Where they would really have a tough time is if Streit goes down… becasue i don’t thik anybody on either roster can drive the zamboni.
My cup is 3/4 empty, How 'bout yours?
I understand where you are going with your explanation but for the Isles to get near a play-off situation , its not going to be with 4th line talent be they veterans or prospects. Maybe the MM’s,NN.s and the JJ’s might break thru and give us that shot. The depth guys can fill in but they won’t get us there. My hope was that Snow would sign at least one top 6 forward and then we might be having a different discussion.
Im hoping that one of the kids on the org steps up and IS the forward we need.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 19, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
My hope was that Snow would sign at least one top 6 forward
I doubt that this will happen. The best we can hope for is finding another Moulson or Schremp, which last year were seen as depth signings. Its unlikely that we will come up that lucky two years in a row. We have a decent pipeline of prospects, Garth has done a good job of stockpiling picks. The problem is most are still a few years away, playing in college or junior hockey. We have to be patient with this team and hope that at least some of these prospects pan out to compliment the core of JT, KO, JB etc.
My hope was that Snow would sign at least one top 6 forward and then we might be having a different discussion.
I hear that (though personally I don’t think there is a remaining top 6 forward on the market; still, I understand those hoping for a Stempniak-type addition who has some upside and is responsible).
I would just add this about Sim/Hilbert/Bridgeport: For Bridgeport to be successful, they need some high-end players one way or another. No matter what one’s personal opinion of Sim or HIlbert is, the fact is at the AHL level they are both high-end, practically point-per-game players. Hershey/Washington has built an AHL juggernaut by maintaining a balanced mix of AHL vets, hot prospects, and “AAAA” types (Aucoin, Giroux) to keep them competitive and fill in for the Caps in a pinch. Aucoin and Giroux are both higher end, talent-wise, but they’ve also each reportedly looked lost on each call-up to the bigs.
So I think guys who can score at the AHL level and fill in on bottom lines when needed at the NHL level are a reasonable way to go.
Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.
by Dominik on Aug 20, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
good point
Somewhere on this topic I also mentioned Acoin and Grioux as an example of the importance of having good veteren talent in the AHL. Washington has a lot of prospects in Hershey and I’m sure those kid appreciate the veteren presence of Acoin and Giroux. Of course it is also nice for Washington to have that kind of talent ready to step in if needed at the big level.Those AAAA journeymen types are under-appreciated but vital.
Where does Garth find these prospects?
Also, where do you expect Garth to find these prospects to fill the AHL roster? Certainly not through free agency. Not likely by trade either. We’d either have to give up core players or draft picks. The prospects in our system now that aren’t already at Bridgeport are not there because they are not eligible to be assigned to Bridgeport yet. Anyway, they are better served finishing out there junior or college careers. Prospects don’t grow on trees. Teems acquire prospects mostly through the draft and then sometimes via trade. Nobody we’d want to trade would net us any prospects of value.
top 6 forward
To get something you have to give up something. The possible source for a top 6 is no longer withthe ufa/ra route, the low hanging fruit has been picked. If Kovy reups with the NJD’s they will have to dump some salary, they have forwards who could be traded. and we have prospects and piks and lots of room for cap space. One big question is how much dough GS can wring out of CW. There is a rumour that Kate Murray is in a compromising mode if so Wang may start dealing. I know I’m hoping for a miracle ……but why not?
Like Ryan Smythe??
I was responding to your statement about garth stocking BP with more prospects versus older vets. But on the topic you brought up above, I think it would be very unwise to give up prospects or picks for a top six player. One top six forward won’t make a difference next year. Its not going to turn us into a serious contender so why mortgage the future? It can be frustrating being patience during a rebuild but lets not do something rash to help us in the short-term. Milbury did that all to often and look where we are now! How did that Smythe trade work out? Granted the prospects we gave up fizzled but that draft pick sure as hell would have been useful!
Smythe was a rental
I see your point and I agree with you. However the point I’m trying to make is that even rebuilding teams can use a still youngish star. Yes you are right we don’t want to give up the positive direction we are on now. However if you look at successful franchises like Pitt, they proceeded on many different levels with great piks , veterans, and great trades. Unfortunately we don’t have an owner who is willing to spend to really give us the lift we need. You and I are patient, but it takes 16000+ to fill the NVMC.
Yes, Smythe was a rental but those are the types of good top six players we would be able to get. Players towards the end of there contract, and even then; as we saw with Smythe, the price is still very high. Two first round prospects and draft picks. That’s a very high price for a rental on a player who wasn’t even really elite to begin with. Teams are not often going to part with a star in the middle of a contract. Even cap-strapped teams are more likely to shed peripheral role players over their core that will help for a few more years. In a perfect world we could land a young top six player who could fit into the group we have and be a part of our future. If we could go after a Zack Parise and not part with any of our core players that would be awesome. Unfortunately that is not likely going to happen. I understand your point completely and you make a good point about filling the coliseum- most fans are not as patient as you or I. But remember that In the past this franchise has done what it could to appease those fans not willing to wait. It all eventually collapsed.
The obvious lift this franchise need is the LH. Then the whole eqation changes, as it did with Pitt. On this I believe most of us would agree and of course is the name of this Blog.
i agree
Yeah, absolutely. That would help attract free agents as well. I really do agree with a lot of what a lot of what I said and I apologize if I sounded like a dick at times. I do disagree with you about the Hilbert signing but at the end of the day its not something that will make or break this franchise. Its August and their isn’t much going on so something small like this is going to get debated ad nauseum. But I agree 100% that getting approval on the LH project would change a lot of things.
Its been fun!
What a great thing that we can debate this stuff, while there are so many real problems all around us! Of course its therapy for us , but for CW and GS its business.
Pitt
Is successful almost exclusively because they weren’t stupid enough to not draft Crosby and Malkin. Really, those guys make everyone around them better. Their drafts are good only because they nailed their first rounders (Staal is another), but I wouldn’t be thrilled to have fleury. Also, they have signed guys that this site would freak about us taking back (Guerin, Fedotenko). The trick with Pitt is that if they put sim or Hilbert on Crosby’s or Malkin’s wing, they would be 50 point guys. (like what lemeiux did with Stevens, Tocchet etc.). You pull those two off of that team, and you have the islanders, but with more experience and leadership. The reasons our Hilberts and Sims look so bad is because at this point, our Tavares and Okposos don’t look like Crosby and Malkin.
by Keith Quinn on Aug 20, 2010 7:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
look a likes???
I love our guys and hope they become stars, but not many experts in the field would expect that they are potentially players of that class. Also its easy to point to and name lesser talents who became stars in the reflected glory of exceptionable players, unfortunately the many more experiments that failed are forgotten.
Exactly my point
Neither Tavares or Okposo are ready yet to turn a Sim/Hilbert into Stevens/Tocchet. They may never be that good. The point was that Pittsburgh drafted generational talents. Detroit is a better example of mixing draft, free agents etc. Pittsburgh could get away with putting a guy in a wheelchair on top of the crease with his stick out and he would have 15 deflected goals per year. Nobody complains about Pitt or Detroit depth signings because they have enough at the top. We don’t yet.
by Keith Quinn on Aug 20, 2010 4:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Meh,
Tavares is one of those players that makes everyone around him better, problem is that he is only 19yrs old right now and not close to his prime 80pt+/season numbers which he should easily see one day. Okposo, the jury is still out on, but he has the potential to be a top goal scorer, but KO is only 22 with only 2 seasons under his belt and HE may need another high talented forward on his line to really see what he can do. Whether it be, a schremp who matures to a 60pt+ magical playmaking #2 center or a winger like Bailey becoming a steady all around 60pt player. Some players just need more time to mature or forward line help to reach their potential.
Next, never compare the penguins to anyone. That’s the luckiest 2 1st round picks that I can ever think of with Malkin and Crosby. You are talking about arguably 2 of the top 5 all-around offensive forwards in the NHL on the same team. Those caliber players don’t come around much, let alone to the same team in back to back drafts. They are a huge exception, call it unfair but it is.
And on the bringing in of a superstar top 6. I’ll leave it like everyone is saying it is. The truth is, bringing in 1 top 6 guy isn’t going to make us cup contenders unless we have a lucky playoff run. Sure, in a 70pt goal scoring forward should make us a playoff contender and close to/if-not a lock for the 8th spot, but it is worth it for the cost of 2 youth prospects, like a MM/JJ and a Comeau + a first/2nd round pick? That’s the question. IMO, not close to worth it because with that trade we are giving up 2 potential future top 9 forwards and a high draft pick which garth has been doing magic with recently.
That being said, a HUGE impact player would be a big playmaking center. The only center like this on the market is the big concussion gamble savard. When healthy, Savard IS an 80-100pt playmaking center that makes the players around him better, but the health problem is there and his contract is a bit long but it only has a $4mil/yr cap hit which is extremely reasonable. Would I give up a schremp, JJ, and 1st/2nd rnd pick for a gamble(maybe less)? No, but would I do it if unquestionably savard was 100%? hell yes. Savard is that playmaking center that KO and Bailey a lot better, taking pressure off them, making their job easier, and boosting their stats and confidence through the roof. With a healthy savard, KO is a 70-75pt+ 35goal scorer and Bailey is a 60-65pt+ 25-30goal scorer, no question in my mind. Savard makes our team a middle of the pack playoff team, problem is that his health keeps us away from him. That makes him not worth the gamble, unless the isles feel he is 100% and not concussion prone. Main point, a 70pt forward barely makes us a playoff team, but trading for or acquiring an 80-100pt playmaking center makes us a lot more serious contender while helping all the young forwards around him much better players, and that’s what garth should be trying to trade for with a schremp/JJ/1st-2nd rnder package that I would do in a heart beat. My 2 cents.
Go isles or Go home.
Savard not the man
33 years old, often hurt, not big and on the downside of his career. Yea I’d like him in a 2 year deal, if he’s healthy. But not for the price you suggest the Bs would ask. [80-100pt] to me is out of the question for him now.I would offer Schremp + a 3 pik. Everyone talks about Schremp as if he has done something. Another #1 who has been a disappointment to date except for shoot outs. I hope Schremp makes it to a top 6. Right now he is a third line guy on the Isles and 4th on good teams.
Savard's not the answer,
I just wanted to make a point. Schremp hasn’t done anything yet, and the reason I would trade him away without question in a deal for a great playmaking center, but he has potential. Last year, schremp showed he could be an adequate 2nd line center, so who knows. He has potential, but like all our other young players, we just have to wait and see what they become.
Go isles or Go home.
Rob Schremp Hockey
He is definitely candidate numero uno to coddle with easy minutes, pump his offensive numbers, and then swap him to a gullible GM for good value.
That’s not a knock on him at all — just looking at his profile and the depth the Isles have at center, if everyone else develops right that’d be the best way to maximize him.
Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.
Andy is the Bomb!!!!
If he replicated his 06-07 performance with the Isles he’d be #8 in pts and #1 baby in +/- . Definitely a smooth move by GS
I think getting rid of the less able Bergenheim and Richard (-9) Park enabled Garth to upgrade the team by bringing Andy back. Certainly his Islander playoff experience will be an intangible.
Lighthouse Hockey:
Where August Depth Signings cause 100 Comment Threads
Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Aug 19, 2010 7:51 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
We’ll talk about anything arround here! But I must admit, the animosity caused by boredom/ summer heat/ lack of real news to sink our teeth into, does make me a little uncomfortable. I think we try to hard to find a different point of view. But it’s August – I read every post – Twice!
Nearly enough defensemen to last through the injury bug
It's my fault, too
…for not having a newer post up yet. (Working on a few though…)
Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.
If we're getting the band back together
Where the hell is Asham?
I would also accept a cameo by the haggard, haunted visage of Mike Sillinger. Seriously, in his Isles player portrait he looks like a man who has seen too much and killed many men.
Seems like the Polish Wayne Gretzky should be available…
Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.
??
Every minor league player is on a 2-way contract…why do Isles fans have to be so dramatic. And enough with the top 6 forward crap already….there was no one out there worth the $$ and we need to find out what Schremp and others give us…no wonder Milbury was able to stick around for so long.
by Nobody77 on Aug 20, 2010 12:22 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd
Yes, thank you. I am glad some more rational fans are posting and speaking up. Signing Hilbert has nothing to do with a ‘top six forward’. they are two different points altogether. Its not like we gave up a chance to sign a top sixer by signing these guys to two way contracts. Whether or not we could or should sign a marquee player we still need to stock BP with good talent. Hilbert is a perfect player to have in your system. He is a smart player who is defensively responsible and can tear up the AHL. He can be called up and fill in any role. He played on Pittsburg’s top line in 05-06 and averaged a point-per-game during his call up. Then he came to the Island and excelled in a checking role.I just don’t get the Hilbert bashing.
I'm a bit torn, myself
I’d have preferred he stayed and Bruno left (but contract-wise, that wasn’t happening). But when i think about his career (lots of up-and-down moments) and injury history, when I factor in my own homer bias love I figure it was probably the defensible move.
Hard not to love how he played down the stretch, but prudence tells me — kicking and screaming — it wasn’t sustainable. (Still, is there a better #6-7 guy who can step in at a moment’s notice and do well? Obviously I’m still a bit torn.)
Lighthouse Hockey: More defensemen than we know how to spell.
upsidedown summer
If you would have told me that the Isles would let Bergy and Freddy IV walk but re-sign Sim and bring back Hilbert, I would have asked for some of what you were smoking…strange days
If they were 1-way deals I think youd have a real point.
But since they arent, I just dont see it.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 21, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Not upset just surprised
I actually don’t have a problem with adding Sim and Hilbert (as long as it’s 2-way deals like you said)but if someone predictied this on July 1st I would have thought they were insane…I think this is a +1 for Snow because it shows he’s thinking outside the box and not afraid to make a move if he thinks it right for the team. I just wish he let the fans know what he was thinking in terms of Bergy and Freddy.
I see what youre saying
I actually had a feeling Simmer might be back, mainly because of his positive attitude after doing the Bridgeport shuffle… not every pro player does what he did and handles a situation like that with such good grace. The Hilbert thing, thats definitely a surprise!
I just wish he let the fans know what he was thinking in terms of Bergy and Freddy.
Garth doesnt let anyone know what he is thinking about pretty much anyhting. When he talks, he doesnt say much. He keeps his cards unbelievably close to his chest at all times. Its a pain in the ass to deal with from our perspective, but honestly if given a choice between this and a guy like Burke or Millbury who blabbed all the time, I think Garths way has far more benefits for the team itself.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 23, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Cause the Jets are less insane? lol
Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
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