What Could John Tavares' Year Two Look Like?
With October four months away, without a firm grasp yet of who will or will not be on the roster, this sounds like a good time to imagine what John Tavares can do next season. The simple blinders on and ignoring all other aspects of the game way to do this is to just take the top forward in each draft since 1999 and compare his year one to his year two production. In the last ten years we have seen both greats and busts picked. Players who every year improve and players who churn out the same numbers year after year. Going through these players and their year to year situations you can't help but hopefully see a bright future for the Islanders. The last two cup winners had more then their fair share of top draft picks leading the way.
Obviously this is just going to be a really rough estimate. JT didn't have the horror of being drafted by an expansion team (Yann Danis and Joey MacDonald look like Roy compared to the Thrashers Goalies) and didn't have the luck of going to a team with two established All-Stars. The two upsides for JT were playing along with Kyle Okposo's high energy style and friend of the family Matt Moulson.
1999 #1 Patrik Stefan
| GP | G | A | Pts | Team Points | |
| Stefan Rookie | 72 | 5 | 20 | 25 | 39 |
| Stefan Y2 | 66 | 10 | 21 | 31 | 60 |
| Difference |
-6 | +5 | +1 | +6 | +21 |
Any improvement in the Thrashers from year one to year two probably has more to do with their signing of 36 year old Ray Ferraro, who put up his third best career points total. Ironically Stefan's second year in the NHL was his third best season out of seven NHL seasons. In fairness to Stefan, at least he gave us one of the greatest NHL Bloopers of all time before he left for Europe.
2000 #2 (grumble) Dany Heatley
| GP | G | A | Pts | Team Points | |
| Heatley Rookie | 82 | 26 | 41 | 67 | 54 |
| Heatley Y2 | 77 | 41 | 48 | 89 | 74 |
| Difference | -5 | +15 | +7 | +22 | +20 |
2001 #1 Ilya Kovalchuk
| GP | G | A | Pts | Team Points | |
| Kovy Rookie | 65 | 29 | 22 | 51 | 54 |
| Kovy Y2 | 81 | 38 | 29 | 67 | 74 |
| Difference | +16 | +9 | +7 | +16 | +20 |
I decided to pair these two together since they were both Rookies the same year. This might be the closest we can get when it comes to a comparison to JT's possible second season. Although they weren't #1 overall picks, Okposo, Josh Bailey and even Nino Niederreiter all have the potential upside to improve the team in short order. A twenty point swing in points for the Islanders should put them in the playoffs next season.
2002 #1 Rick Nash
| GP | G | A | Pts | Team Points | |
| Nash Rookie | 74 | 17 | 22 | 39 | 59 |
| Nash Y2 | 80 | 41 | 16 | 57 | 54 |
| Difference | +6 | +24 | -6 | +18 | -5 |
Although his first season was kind of silent, his second season stats are insane when compared to the rest of the team. He nearly doubled the Bluejacket's 2nd highest goal total for the season (David Vyborny had 22 goals) and the team only had 5 players other then Nash break double digits. He also won the Rocket Richard Trophy that season. I wouldn't mind at all if JT grabs a trophy to make up for not getting the Calder last year.
2003 #2 Eric Staal
| GP | G | A | Pts | Team Points | |
| Staal Rookie | 81 | 11 | 20 | 31 | 72 |
| Staal Y2 | 82 | 45 | 55 | 100 | 112 |
| Difference | +1 | +34 | +35 | +69 | +40 |
There's one big difference here. Staal's Rookie and 2nd year were actually a year apart. Due to the strike he spent a year in the AHL. During his time in the AHL he put up a little more then a point per game in both the regular season and the playoffs. So far his second year is also his career best year by 20ish points.
2004 #1 Alex Ovechkin
| GP | G | A | Pts | Team Points | |
| Ovie Rookie | 81 | 52 | 54 | 106 | 60 |
| Ovie Y2 | 82 | 46 | 46 | 92 | 70 |
| Difference | +1 | -6 | -6 | -14 | +10 |
Ovie hit a bit of a Sophmore Slump. But really, there's plenty of players who wish in their best season they had 92 points. The Capitals in his Rookie year were so bad that they were Mathieu Biron's last NHL stop before playing a few seasons in the AHL and finally going to Europe. With the addition of Semin in his second year (who put up a 73 Point season that year) it took a bit of the pressure off Ovie to do everything.
2005 #1 Sidney Crosby
| GP | G | A | Pts | Team Points | |
| Crosby Rookie | 81 | 39 | 63 | 102 | 58 |
| Crosby Y2 | 79 | 36 | 84 | 120 | 105 |
| Difference | -2 | -3 | +21 | +18 | +47 |
Another #1 helped in his second season by the addition of a top rate first rounder (This time Evgeni Malkin the #2 overall in 04) and the continued improvement in net of Marc-Andre Fleury (1st Overall in 03). It makes you wonder what might happen to the Islanders if Rick DiPietro can return and play at his old levels.
2006 #2 Jordan Staal
| GP | G | A | Pts | Team Points | |
| Staal Rookie | 81 | 29 | 13 | 42 | 105 |
| Staal Y2 | 82 | 12 | 16 | 28 | 102 |
| Difference | +1 | -17 | +3 | -14 | -3 |
Staal's second year is the worst of his career by far. It might be due to the Penguins being overstocked at the center position during his second season more then anything else. Since then he has put up back to back 49 point seasons and last year led the team in +/-.
2007 #1 Patrick Kane
| GP | G | A | Pts | Team Points | |
| Kane Rookie | 82 | 21 | 51 | 72 | 88 |
| Kane Y2 | 80 | 25 | 45 | 70 | 104 |
| Difference | -2 | +4 | -6 | -2 | +16 |
There's not much you can say bad about Kane. Two of his three seasons he lead Chicago in points, and the only season he didn't he finished just 7 points behind Havlat. In Chicago you can even see some familiarities. Kane and Johnathon Toews were both high draft pics (1st and 3rd overall respectively), Duncan Keith a second rounder who spent time maturing in college, the WHL and AHL, and Patrick Sharp a player taken off the scrap heap after another team had given up on him.
2008 #1 Steven Stamkos
| GP | G | A | Pts | Team Points | |
| Stamkos Rookie | 79 | 23 | 23 | 46 | 66 |
| Stamkos Y2 | 82 | 51 | 44 | 95 | 80 |
| Difference | +3 | +28 | +21 | +49 | +14 |
What happens when team owners decide to announce who they are drafting first overall ahead of time and make a huge campaign of "Seen Stamkos?" over the summer to build up recognition in a weak market? oh and lets say the same owners decide bringing in Barry Melrose (who hadn't coached in the NHL in 14 years) with his old school mentality of players having to earn spots? Stamkos barely got any playing time in the beginning of the season. It isn't surprising to see Stamkos went on a 28 point tear in the last 34 games of his rookie year.
2009 #1 John Tavares
| GP | G | A | Pts | Team Points | |
| JT Rookie | 82 | 24 | 30 | 54 | 79 |
| JT Y2 | 82 | 33 | 38 | 71 | 97 |
| Difference | 0 | +9 | +8 | +18 | +18 |
Average Goals Diff = + 9.3
Average Assist Diff = + 7.7
Average Team Pts Diff = + 17.7
Both of those totals should be doable. If JT puts up 18 more points next season, we can picture some of those goals and assists making the difference in close games. Nine more wins next season doesn't seem like it should be out of the question. This is without considering that those around him will continue to get better. That's in addition to possibly adding more First Rounders to the roster. If JT came out and had an 18 point upswing from his rookie year, that would match both Crosby and Nashes year to year improvement. It would also be two points better then Kovy's year one to year two improvement. Just to add a little perspective.
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I think the goal numbers might even be a little higher, since if he didn’t hit the rookie wall this past year he might have had about 30 goals this year. Depending on what Okposo puts up his assists might be a little higher also. I’ll agree that 33 should be attainable but I’d like to think he’ll have over 40 assists. At least hoping.
Who's the master?
40 assists is a real possibility. I’ve said before that what has surprised and impressed me most about Tavares’s game last year was his playmaking. He came up through juniors billed as a sniper but I saw a lot of creativity in setting up plays.
Yeah, have to think the assist total will go up more than the goals…looking forward to seeing how that plays out…
sweet article webby
I’m thinking 35-45-80 in 79 games but if the refs give us more pp time than pk time then I’m willing to go 40-50-90 in 81 games (but u have diff amounts for games played bob…true but I don’t know who’s got his back vs pronger yet)
Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?
-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me
Seconded
This outlook put me in a very happy mood.
The way his “nose for the net” collected goals toward the end of last season, I’d say 30 is a (barring injury) good bet, and 35 suits, too. 40? Why not? Another reason to salivate over the young wingers at mini-camp this week.
Lighthouse Hockey: "A f#$%ing haven of reason compared to practically every other Islanders site." --TMC
It's Finally done, and it rocks
The John Tavares McFarlane Figure!
That looks like someone primed to score 40 goals this year.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
The only complaint is why did the jersey on the figure have to be the lame one?
There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.
by David Hanssen on Jul 9, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
They made the White Jersey too, but only 200-500 of them.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
Contributor toLighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
This week I recommend Jewels from the Crown because Quisp is a diabolical mastermind.
http://www.toywiz.com/nhl24tavaressilver.html
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
Contributor toLighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
This week I recommend Jewels from the Crown because Quisp is a diabolical mastermind.
the second line is the key
I expect at least a modest improvement along the lines you forecast in any event. But if the Isles can add Frolov to the second line and / or Nino and Petrov, it might become potent enough that opposing teams couldn’t just automatically put their shutdown pairings out when JT is out.
If that is done and there is at least a modest improvement in the defense. JT may have a Stammer-like Y2 and the Isles might actually make the playoffs.
frolov wants 5+M per year though from the kings, so how much to play here? 5.5/6M? Wang might be better off maxing Kovi out since he would at least bring people to the rink for the other 6M it would cost him, not knocking frolov, just knocking frolov at that price
Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?
-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me
think i saw it in an eklund tweet yesterday… he doesn’t deserve more than 4 IMO
Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?
-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me
might be worthwhile to overpay if it helps us get a playoff spot
and deprives Madonna’s Entourage of his services.
Ehhh, Forwards aren’t going to be our problem going into the season, it’s our D
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
there isn't much to be done about the defense
if this team is to have any hope of a playoff spot, it must score enough goals to compensate for the lack of defense.
boston was last in the league in scoring and was a choking breath away from the finals, it can be done, not by this team and with this coach, but another debate for another day… i dont see frolov as the offensive player that helps to push us over the hump though, but maybe with enough growth from the 3 kids and some new blood it could work, maybe i’m just sticking to the fro-loaf reports i keep hearing, because at 4M gordon can’t scratch him like he did tamby for lax play off the puck
Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?
-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me
agree, I’d rather see what our Kids can do then bring in Frolov
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
LA knocked a freaky looking kid named Moulson when they let him go too
and, yeah, he wasn’t any good either so I see your point.
BC, moulson played 29 games for the kings over 2 years, i hardly think the fans had enough of a sample to “knock” him, so the comparison is way off base… unless you mean the team itself, which i wasn’t referring to
i haven’t seen him play regularly, but his stats bear a distinct drop off the last 2 years, especially in the ‘clutch’ category, GW goals by years: 3/3/4/6/7/1/1 (which equates to him netting a GW in 1 of every 7 wins except the last 2 seasons, where it was 1 in every 40 wins)
the kid had a knack for big goals that has dwindled – almost dried up completely, so i see that and read the fans indifference as a red flag
Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?
-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me
I was referring to the team
they are, after all, the ones who make the decisions about these guys. I wish I had saved the email Helene Elliott from the LA Times sent me last summer. Pretty much it said Moulson was given a good shot to play alongside our top line. He showed no grit, no hustle, no scoring touch, no nothing. To be fair, she was giving me Dean the Idiot’s viewpoint, but she didn’t dispute his assessment. Sent her a thank you email for Deano’s benefit at the end of the season. One word answer: “Ha!”
lol, that’s pretty funny, and now i know where you’re coming from on this, so yeah, that’s fair to say.
Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?
-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me
btw
My reference to Dean as The Idiot is not a Dostoyevsky reference. One of Dom’s colleagues on the King SB site refers to him that way. And I did come back to Helene suggesting that if he also wanted to unload Johnson whom he had just dumped on in the press, we would be happy to accept!
Again
That was a satirical instance referring to Lombardi’s handling of Frolov. Pretty sure RudyKelly has been generally happy with Lombardi’s work, so running with the “idiot” title all year for letting Moulson go is a stretch.
Though a Dostoyevsky reference would be funnier.
Lighthouse Hockey: "A f#$%ing haven of reason compared to practically every other Islanders site." --TMC
I dunno
Dismissing Moulson as a nothing player and then having him perform as spectacularly as he did for a new team kinda lends itself to that.
Sure
But teams make mistakes on career minor-leaguers all the time. He was a 9th-round pick. Seldom do they become 30-goal scorers. If it was clear how good Moulson would be, the Isles probably wouldn’t have been able to nab him.
Lighthouse Hockey: "A f#$%ing haven of reason compared to practically every other Islanders site." --TMC
I’m thinking or should say hoping around 40/40, the key is both the second line and who JT has on his line. I’m really far more concerned with KO’s lack of goal scoring. So if he can finally take the next step and/or Niño jumps in and start producing, I would expect it could be even higher.
by Judgegavel on Jul 9, 2010 8:05 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Awesome post
Formerly NYIsles629 – wasn’t feeling that name so I changed it up lol.
I think Tavares has full potential to hit great numbers this season. He will be refreshed, not under as much pressure now that all eyes are on Hall. Also, JTs linemates are maturing as well. Im looking forward to 30+ goals and 35+ assists credited ot his name.
Look for a fanpost tonight about the Isles/Mets thing. Anyone have any good questions I can try to slip in and ask? I’m going straight for Nino and Matt Martin.
Oh man! I love fishsticks!!
I’ll see what I can find via Google and change it up
They should give out fishstick tshirt jerseys as a promotion one night
I think they burnt all the fishsticks stuff
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
Contributor toLighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
This week I recommend Jewels from the Crown because Quisp is a diabolical mastermind.
lol, you dont really have to change it, he is just clownin with ya :)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 9, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Well since they havent met all of the team and havent actually played games here yet, how about what do they think of the beaches, the fishing, of LI itself?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 9, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
This is interesting as well
Maybe some whistling in the dark, but this is an NHL.com columnist on Calvin de Haan at prospect camp. If he does prove he’s recovered and makes the team, will his puck-moving get the Isles more chances (especially on the PP) that JT will have a hand in converting? I could see him jumping to 80 points.
Of course I'm an expert, I've seen Slap Shot eleven times!
Yowza
It’s always hard to figure when we’re in July and basically every official hockey article is a fawning one to get people paying attention, but articles like that really make me think this team would do it.
Lighthouse Hockey: "A f#$%ing haven of reason compared to practically every other Islanders site." --TMC
Great post
Save for J. Staal, these are encouraging numbers for JT. As others have mentioned, he definitely could have hit the 30+ goal level last season if he hadn’t taken two months of the season off. It’s not entirely inconceivable that he could put up Stamkos numbers.
But I think that hinges on improving strength and skating. He lacks the explosive speed of some of the others on the list and he doesn’t have the size of Eric Staal, for example, to make up for it.
really wish i had access to the isles video vault, really want to know how many posts he hit last year, 15, 20, 25+ ??? would give me a better gauge on how much to estimate for next year
Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?
-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me
http://www.behindthenethockey.com/2010/5/11/1460165/i-think-we-can-agree-that-this-is
Has him down for 10 last year, but it’s not exact.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
it’s gotta be more than 10, doesn’t it?
Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?
-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me
Id guess more like 15 than 10… at least! Plus, it seems to me Kyle got a pile of those “just wide of the net” ones as well.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 9, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
JT is the kind of player who is going to be an animal on the PP as he matures. His hands down low and knack for the garbage are going to really begin to shine.
I definitely remember Kyle having weeks of just barely missing the net
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
certainly feel you judge, but then again, i thought we had a 50 goal scorer after watching him rip his 1st nhl goal past marty off of 1 knee from between the circles
Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?
-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me
He is still a kid
lots of time for him to get it together
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 10, 2010 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions
It might be, but I also think it’s one of those things that you remember so vividly you believe it happened more then it did. Like when I was going through all the Islanders 1 goal games and they had a 16-18 or so record in them.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
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