Why would Kovalchuk going to the Kings be considered going to "a contender"?
by TheMetalChick on Jul 5, 2010 3:19 AM EDT
Email
Print
I was reading this thread on the Kings board over at The Arena, and someone said this:
The Kings are certainly in a much better position to battle for the Cup than the Isles currently, and declining them makes it look like he's not as interested in going to a contender as he was rumored to be.
This line really got me thinking. Are the Kings really in a "MUCH better position"?
The Kings are probably about two years ahead of the Islanders in doing the same thing- rebuilding. What I want to know is, why is Kovalchuk going to the Kings lumped in with and considered to be a case of him going to "a contender"? I dont get it. The Kings are NOT already contenders and have NOT earned the title people keep putting on them. Might they be contenders soon? Sure, why not? They are a young and talented team who is getting better and better. They are certainly on their way. But they arent contenders yet as of right now. Lets look at the facts:
via i50.tinypic.com
Islanders have made the playoffs more often than they have in recent years! I looked at the stats from this century. If anything, the Islanders/Kings comparison has either been a wash or the Isles have been better than the Kings, except for last season. That does NOT make one "a contender".
Yes, the Kings are a young and talented team who is getting better and better. But so are the Islanders. They are going to be a lot better a lot sooner than most people think- especially the people in the media who keep referring to a choice between the two teams as one between a contender and a non-contender. Could a player like Kovalchuk MAKE them a contender? Quite possible, yes. But that would not be him GOING to a contender, it would be him making a team into one. Big difference, as far as Im concerned. And Im sorry but there is no logical reason to think that he would not have just as positive of an effect on the New York Islanders.
If someone wanted to say that the Kings are in a somewhat better position than the Isles, just insofar as they have been going with youth and rebuilding a bit longer, alright- Id be OK with that... but Im getting tired of the 2y difference in their rebuilds being made into some gigantic chasm, because it simply isnt.
Fact is, the only actual contender that is known to be in this Kovalchuk thing is the Devils. The Flyers would be as well, except I cannot for the life of me fathom how they would possibly afford him.
OK- I feel better now having said that. Now back to our regularly scheduled waiting and wondering.
Submitted FanPosts do not necessarily reflect the views of this blog or SB Nation. If you're reading this statement, you pass the fine print legalese test. Four stars for you.
32 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
The Kings made the playoffs with 4 players scoring 20 or more goals, only 1 player breaking the 30 goal mark.
Two of their playoff losses (game 4 and game 6) involved empty netters, meaning they were both 1 goal games.
With 241 GF they were 5th in Conference, and 219 GA put them 6th in conference.
The two best teams in conference (Sharks/Hawks) have huge questions going into the season.
They are also coming off their 3rd highest point total in team history.
Plus their farm goalie is a former 1st round pick and is right behind Canuck’s prospect Schneider in terms of potential.
The Islanders are just another year (or probably two) from getting to that point. We could also use some teams in the division slipping a bit talent wise.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
by Mark D on Jul 5, 2010 4:39 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
agreed
they have probably been rebuilding and collecting talent at least twice as long as the Isles have and so have more depth than the Isles do. Still losing Moulson and then having him shine for us and possibly losing the Kovi sweepstakes and perhaps Frolov as well have to hurt.
Still losing Moulson and then having him shine for us and possibly losing the Kovi sweepstakes and perhaps Frolov as well have to hurt.
And THAT is what I mean when I say Snow’s toughest decisions are ahead of him. Stockpiling assets is relatively easy compared to the make or break decisions when you have to choose which assets to keep. I can’t wait!
Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.
And that = "contender"?
Not in my book. Thats called having a great season… and being knocked out of the playoffs in the first round.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 5, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
they gave the Canucks a run for their money
they are clearly on the verge of making a solid Cup run. Another piece like Kovi might just put them over the top. I think that it is fair to say that they are MUCH closer to Cup contention than we are. Of course, if we keep taking guys like Moulson and maybe Kovi away from them, that could change.
Kind of ironic but
If the Kings give him 8 million+ they won’t be a contender after the next two years. Doughty was a Norris finalist so u think they want him long term 6 million+ and Johnson for 3 years 4.5 million. This would give them 15 million in cap space for next year but only 10 players signed. You can say they could bring up Hickey and Schenn but they have about 5 million in cap hit combined so they would have ten million left for about 8 players.
That's where my reservation lies on 10x10
Unless all our prospects are busts, we’d be running into the same trouble in a few years.
Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.
They won two playoff games, BC.
And those are the only two playoff games they have even played since back in the 02 season.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 5, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
If the future is always going to be the past…well, for both our teams’ sakes, I hope that’s wrong. But rosters (and management styles) do change.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
You dont have to tell me- Islanders fans read ridicule and jokes regarding Mike Millbury as GM and owners from over a decade ago on a daily basis. IF there is one group of fans and one organization that is CONSTANTLY judged by the past, its the Islanders.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 5, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s so not cool. Milbury =/= Garth Snow. Hardly!
People don’t like the established narrative to change. It takes them a while to catch up with it.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
People don’t like the established narrative to change
SO true. We have been getting all the “your GM gives out shitty contracts” jokes for years- we STILL get them- and nobody can name even one contract Garth Snow has given out that is shitty.
And on those same kinda lines, remember how long it took this past season for people to stop projecting the Coyotes into the Taylor Tyler race?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 5, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think what Snow gets burned on is that he was GM when DiPietro signed, but that was also during the comittee year, it was Milbury who put that idea in Wang’s head and it was Wang who wanted the deal.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
I am pretty sure it was Charles idea himself. After all, long term deals like that are far more common in a non-sports business model. None of that or the committee idea or all that has anything to do with Garth.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 6, 2010 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I would call winning two games in a series giving the other team a run for its money
sure had folks up here scared of a first round bust. They have been on the way up and were respectable in their first playoff appearance as a rebuilt team. They actually are the more logical place for Kovi. He isn’t going to help himself or the Devils, who should have kept Bergfors and retooled, and I believe it is really too soon in our development for a move like this. As I say, sometimes the best deals are the ones not made and I think that this will prove to be one of those for the Isles.
How about "about to be a contender"?
… and being knocked out of the playoffs in the first round.
Like the Devils?
To me, the attraction of the Kings involves: Doughty, Kopitar, Johnson, Bernier, even Brown. Those guys are all better than their counterparts on the Isles.
As for Cup chances, you could argue it’s tougher for the Kings because their conference is tougher to get out of in June, but of course that can be cyclical.
In terms of winning in his athletic prime, I’d say Ilya’s chances are better in LA. In terms of last year’s contenders, like you said that’s playing loose with the word: none of the current “contenders” have cap room for him. “Contender” is a stretch, but “about to be a contender” much better fits the Kings than Isles.
Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.
my impression is that...
the Devils are fading as a contender and the Kings are on the rise and becoming a contender. They really looked like they were going to beat the Canucks at one point in that series.
They really did
Probably too dependent on the PP in that series, but they show the signs of turning the corner. Either not overplaying Quick and/or going with Bernier next year should help, too.
Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.
I think the Devils are always considered a cup contender for 2 reasons
Playoff Experience of Marty
They almost always win their division, meaning that they have home ice advantage thru the first two rounds at least.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
disagree
The Devs are just good enough to make the playoffs. They are not a contender. Since winning the Cup in 2003, they have not made it past the second round. They have not made it past the first round since 2007. And their losses have not been close. Other than the loss to the Canes last year, they have all been in 5 games. They need to retool.
They're a tough one
Their playoff exits have been pretty pathetic, yet there they are year after year as one of the top teams over 82 games.
Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.
They’ve finished 1st in the Atlantic for 4 of the last 5 years, the one year they didn’t was 07-08.
I dislike the Devils, but saying they are “Just good enough to make the playoffs” while they have finished the regular season ahead of 2 of the last 3 teams to make the finals from the East (and they were ahead of the Pens team that won it, and only 3 points behind the Pens that lost it).
As long as they keep winning the division, potential cup teams are going to have to play through Jersey. I don’t think anyone knows why they keep collapsing so badly in the playoffs, but they haven’t exactly been bad during the regular season.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
they haven’t exactly been bad during the regular season.
as any old Islander hand will tell you, that and a couple of bucks will get you a subway token. It is what you do in the second season that really counts. As I say, the Devils need to retool a bit. Should have kept Bergfors. Between him, Josefson, Tedenby, and the younger current members of the Devils squad, they would have been poised to tear up the NHL in a few years.
Hey, thanks for that. IMO, as a Kings fan, I like the long-term futures of both teams.
Some people on the NJ side are exerting a lot of energy bashing our potential, too. I don’t think it’s anything to get too riled up over, though of course it never feels very nice. I’m sure we’ll all feel better when we kick ass in two or three years.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
"About to" isnt good enough to already call them that
Its like calling JT a 30 goal scorer just because he is “about to” become one.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 5, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, and that’s where people are playing to loose with the term. But it is reason to think he can help them take that next step.
Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.
How about “about to be a contender”?
Works for me, as long as the Islanders are “about to have multiple 30G scorers” :)
Seriously though, I have all the confidence in the world that the Kings are going to have some good, perhaps even great years ahead of them. But I just cannot understand why with some teams people are so eager to throw the proverbial green jacket on them.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 5, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know why going to the Devils is considered going to a contender either
Lets face facts, that juggernaught is in rapid decline. Martin Brodeur is also far from a “sure thing” these days. His career has been in decline for awhile and he is the guy who makes the Devils the The Devils.
That franchise is living on past reputation and borrowed time these days. Their Zach Parise days are like the Islanders Pat Lafontaine days.
Either way, I don’t think Kovalchuk makes the islanders a better team just as Gaborik didn’t make the Rangers a better team. Pardon the pun but “The Devil” is in the Blue Line.
LAK v NYI
I think the first point in your question is, “contenders” for what?
There is no doubt that the Kings roster is way ahead of the Islanders. The Islanders do not have ONE PROVEN TOP SIX FORWRD. They have three (maybe as many as 6)with “potential”, all have holes in their game, or just have not excelled at the NHL level yet.
The NYI defense is a HUGE QUESTON MARK? I’m pretty sure I am not alone when thinking that this team would be a PLAYOFF contender this year, it was with the addition of a top 6 forward in the UFA market, but at least two defensemen, maybe Gudbranson and one of the top defensive D UFAs… we added NOTHING. Maybe we’ll see El Nino… maybe not.
LA can make an argument that with Kovi, they know they can compete and possibly make a splash in the playoffs.
We don’t even know if Kovi would fit in Scott Gordon’s system, or if Scott can tailor his system around Ilya (nevermind guys who haven’t even played a period of professional NA hockey like the Kirills). This team, right now, is ONE BIG QUESTION MARK.
You may be right in that the Kings are not true stanley cup contenders at present… but the Islanders don’t even qualify as legit playoff contenders right now.
Personally… I’d rather see Nino score 25 in his NHL debut season than Ilya score 45 and completely destroy the team dynamic for 10 years. I’m still on the big money, shorter term bandwagon… I’d love to see Ilya… but I think this team needs to be based on 21 guys every night pulling the rope in one direction… rather than 20 going one way and 1 off on a tangent.
The NY Islanders are about to redo the salary cap floor with russian marble!
You want to believe the Kings have proven so much, I respectfully disagree. I think, along with the Isles, they havent proven anything yet.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 5, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
it is fair to say that the Kings are several steps ahead of us developmentally
with the exception of Schenn, most of their elite level talent has graduated and is contributing. I think our talent on offense is potentially much better than theirs, goaltending about even, and they have a decided edge on defense. We really do not have anybody who can fill Mark’s skates in our system and we need to acquire somebody along those lines before we can say that the core is complete.
All that said, their talent is mostly on the ice while 1/2 to 2/3 of ours is still in the system.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lighthouse Hockey
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Islanders Schedule
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Coyotes’ Mike Smith believes Dustin Brown should be ‘done forever’ for Rozsival hit; slams Game 5 officiating
- Tuesday’s Three Stars: Penner’s overtime winner puts Kings in the Final
- Mike Milbury vs. Jeremy Roenick over Dustin Brown’s Game 5 OT hit on Michal Rozsival (VIDEO)
- Watch Kings, Coyotes in hostile handshake line after Dustin Penner sends LA to Stanley Cup Final (VIDEO)
- Kings vs. Coyotes Game 5; Pierre McGuire on Tortorella/DeBoer argument (Playoff Puck Previews)
SBNation.com Recent Stories
1979-80
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
