Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Explaining Jeremy Lin's Early, Surprising Success

Ilya Kovalchuk: 10 Reasons not to do 10 Years at $10 Million

I know a full metric ton of you are excited by the reports the Islanders are in on the Ilya Kovalchuk sweepstakes. I get that. I'm a longtime fan waiting for the volcanic burst when years of suffering patience are rewarded by a leap back into the NHL's top clubs. And when have we ever been able to rave that the Isles signed a legit top free agent other teams wanted? (Ironically, that's also why I doubt it will happen; of course usually when I say that, it happens within hours.)

If the Islanders, who are thin at left wing and as much as $10 million below the cap floor, announced a 1- or even a 4-year deal with the sniping winger for around max money ($10 million? $11 million? Why not? Not my money.), I'd be nervous, but thrilled. I'm the type who might even rush my butt off the couch to overnight a custom #17 Isles jersey, against my rational self. And the loathing; oh, there would be self-loathing.

Garth Snow told Newsday: "Over the last couple of days I've made maybe a hundred calls and explored options where, maybe it doesn't come to fruition, but I'm not doing my job if I don't make those calls." Bless him for that. I'd be shocked if he didn't call. All reports are the interest is real, not a gimmick.

But it's the MSM reports that a deal could be as much as $10 million per for 10 years -- that is what has me scared to death. I don't think he's worth it (not even now, but I could stomach the overpayment short-term), and I don't think that sort of commitment -- one fourth of the payroll now, one-sixth of the whole cap -- fits where the Isles are in their rebuild. They need another scorer; they don't need to give another scorer the Moon today and every year to 2020.

I fully recognize this is a debatable stance for hockey fans, and it's been a fun debate among the regular participants here in comments. So for you and others, I'll spell out my reasons for reservation. To be clear, this is built around the rumored and unconfirmed 10x10 offer. If it's less than that, some of this is moot:

Star-divide

1. Even though the Islanders are Below the Cap Floor, They're Still on a Budget

Is Charles Wang suddenly going to lavish more money on this club's payroll? Will they even be a cap-max team when they have a new building in five(?) years, when Kovalchuk is 32, on the decline, and half-way through such a contract? If the Isles are willing to spend to the cap, that's one thing. But if they're maintaining floor status, that doesn't leave much room for extensions to Kyle Okposo and Josh Bailey (next summer) and John Tavares (the following summer), to say nothing of the other first-rounders (Calvin De Haan, Nino Niederreiter) who will follow.

In short, a team constructed and spending the way the Isles do needs to find value contracts even more so than the teams who are pushing the cap maximum. The Islanders always say they're willing to spend for the right fit, but of course the reality is that "the right fit" is a lot more selective than other teams. Your real cap is much lower when you're spending $15 million less than other clubs in your division. For a team like the Isles, money mistakes are magnified. In exchange rate terms, we're spending Canadian dollars while they're spending Amer-- wait, things have changed since the '90s. I gotta work on that analogy.

Counterargument: If the Isles are never going to spend much above the floor, we're pretty screwed regardless, so might as well have fun with Ilya, put butts in the seats, get fans excited, win more games, maybe steal a playoff appearance/series. And the revised lease on the Coliseum at least gives Wang more liquid cash to play with.

 

2. Ilya Kovalchuk is not a $10 million player

I get that the Isles -- and any team, really, but especially the Isles -- have to overpay to get a free agent to choose us over the contending Penguins or the further-along-and-rising Kings. But Kovalchuk is not even a Crosby- or Ovechkin-level player. His stats are largely padded by regularly getting the most PP minutes of any forward in the league. His lack of defensive acumen (to put it nicely) in his own zone is legion. This is not a popular view in our counting-stats-obsessed culture, but 40 goals instead of 30 is not so sexy if the swing is even bigger in the goals against department.

A $10 million cap hit is $4.6k more than Ovechkin's, $1.3 million more than Crosby's, $2.3 million over Lecavalier's, $2.5 million over Heatley's and Gaborik's, $3.3 million over Backstrom's, $3.9 million over the Sedins' and Zetterberg's. Note that every one of those players' employers routinely spends near the cap (except Tampa Bay, who I guarantee regrets the previous ownership signed it).

So: 20 to 25% of your payroll on a routinely minus player? All because he scores 10 to 12 goals more than the next teammate? That instead of two 25 to 30-goal scorers who are good in their own end?

Counterarguments: But we need to overpay to get anyone. And maybe with cap inflation, in five years $10 million will be the going rate for scoring stars.

 

3. Ilya Kovalchuk is not so Hot at 5-on-5 Hockey

Plus/minus is an evil, team-dependent stat, so consider this: Last season Kovalchuk at +1 in Atlanta (his first plus ever) was 11th on the team in that department. The year before (-12), he was 31st on the team, while Rich Peverley led at +16. The year before that (-12 again), he was 26th on the team. I know that stat can be misleading, but what does it say about a guy who scores so many more goals than his teammates, yet is still consistently on the ice for more goals against than those teammates? Float much? Rely on PP much?

To go deeper, it gets worse when you consider that Kovalchuk logs a lot of those points against weaker competition. As Gabe Desjardins chronicled at Behind the Net [go there for more data and a good discussion]:

Ilya Kovalchuk has been much more likely to start out in the offensive zone than his teammates, and even though he lines up against his opponents' weaker lines, his teams have been significantly outshot while he's on the ice. In other words, he's a seriously negative player at even-strength. By way of comparison, Vincent Lecavalier - who has a millstone of a contract he can never live up to - also gets choice faceoff starts, but he faces tough competition and comes out positive relative to his teammates.

Now, goals are goals -- if a coach can get you out for ideal matchups and you score, bully for both of you. But still, is a guy like that worth the top salary in the league? For 10 years? You can groom or acquire a guy who's twice as effective at preventing goals while scoring nearly as many points, for half to two-thirds the price.

Counterargument: But he's very hot at 5-on-4 hockey, which is no small matter given the Islanders' poor powerplay.

 

4. At Age 27, Ilya Still Wanders in His Own Zone

I base this one on personal observation, word from Atlanta fans who have watched him, and numbers like the ones compiled in the Behind the Net post I linked to above. But if you want a video representation, just check out this post at Birdwatchers Anonymous, chronicling an obvious defensive zone fail in an Islanders win over Atlanta. A sampling:

The 3rd Moulson goal is also assisted by "defensive indifference" from the Captain Kovalchuk. Watch the video clip and once again you'll see the Islander (Streit) with the puck up at the top of the Thrashers defensive zone. You'll see Kovalchuk enter the picture but then he just peels away without applying any sort of pressure on the puck carrier. Once again

Counterargument: The same Atlanta blogger, who has always been a guarded skeptic while watching Ilya play for his team, also said Ilya was playing "like a superstar" after watching Kovalchuk take off upon being named captain. The possibility is that Ilya excels when challenged with responsibility -- he certainly didn't sleepwalk through the Devils playoff loss like his teammates did. Thus is the dilemma: He is undeniably a star; is he a star worth this much for this long?

 

5. He Would be 32 Half-way through the Deal, 37 when it Ends

Think about the forwards in this league who were between the ages of 33-37 this past season (the age range Ilya will be in for the final five years and $50 million of the theoretical 10-year deal). Looking at that list, how many would you have paid max salary to this season? (Or, to be fair, given possible cap inflation, how many would you have paid about $8 million to?)  Perhaps Martin St. Louis and Daniel Alfredsson (though they each make much less) aaaand...?

Counterargument: But Ilya is a special player in those two guys' class, and the Islanders have to overpay to get anyone.

 

6. Ilya Doesn't Fit the Rebuild

I'm a patient fan. When Garth Snow got full decision-making control of the team, all I wanted was a guy who would do things Milbury would not (and to be fair, in many cases could not): Develop draft picks, hoard prospects -- and be patient enough to avoid rash decisions that deviate from the plan.

It's very hard to tell fans to be patient year after year. But when you are a team on a low budget, this is the only route. You need your high picks to turn into young stars who develop with the team, who realize that Long Island is a good place to play hockey, and who take the proverbial "hometown discount" to re-sign with the team under a cap system. While a short-term move helps the Isles cap situation today (how weird is that?), it doesn't help in a few years. If the Islanders are keeping their low budget, then they will have issues fitting their young forwards (and later, young defensemen) in with a 30-year-old $10 million man anchoring 20% of that budget.

Admittedly, this is a selfish lament for me. I've been patient this far, so I'm not willing to rush into another long-term deal that could haunt and even hamstring the club within five years.

Counterargument: Grow up, whiner. Ilya might be better than any of those young Isles forwards, so he'll make twice as much and they'll all be happy scoring fools.

 

7. This Backchecking Thing Really Bothers Me

In hockey, stat-focused observers (like Gabe, who I quoted liberally above) like to talk in cold, hard numbers, while poo-pooing the subjective psychobabble of the common sportswriter. I'm somewhere in between. I think numbers -- NOT just counting numbers, but the rate numbers Gabe uses -- can tell us a lot about a player's individual value in a very fluid game, while "They wanted it more" is a tired excuse used to explain collective Halak-backed luck.

But I do have room for the subjective and the psychological, because I've watched enough, talked to enough, and played enough endurance and team sports to know that the mind plays tricks on you in pressure-and-pain athletic situations. You know how runners break through "the Wall"? Well, team-sport athletes need to believe in some reward to push themselves through that wall. So when your goalie gives up a backbreaking (i.e. "soft") goal time and time again, it doesn't matter how often he saves 97% of his shots -- you're still worried, in the back of your mind, that all your best efforts will be for naught. Likewise, when your team's scorer routinely blows the defensive assignment that is the responsibility of ever winger on the team, you notice.

At first, you make excuses for him because you sure do appreciate when he pots a laserbeam top corner to win a game in OT. But after enough viewings, when you're body's tired, when the team is in a slump, when you're battling through a bad groin and a bum wrist and you know that primadonna top scorer is still going to loaf on his responsibilities, in the back of your mind you wonder, "Wait, why am I busting my ass through injury to catch my guy, when he's just going to have an open shooter on the other side?" It's the same reason a scorer can sprint through pain up ice for a scoring chance, but then magically feel that throbbing pain too much to sprint at the same speed back toward his own zone.

All of that may be too subjective. And it may be unfair to put Kovalchuk in that department. But suffice to say, if a $10 million guy shirks or simply not know how to achieve basic defensive assignments in his own zone, that's going to eventually rub off on teammates. Not in a good way.

 

8. Eight, Eight, I Forget What Eight Was For...

(reference, for the too-old or too-young.)

 

9. A Major Free Agent and the Lighthouse Project Have Nothing to do with Each Other

This is a minor point (I'm focused on hockey, not politics), but it's one rumored about in a few circles -- that Charles Wang must be pushing this deal as a way to help push his Lighthouse Project through. That Ilya = more wins = more Isles popularity = more pressure on the Town of Hempstead.

I must confess I don't follow that. The Town of Hempstead has shown it doesn't much care for any Islanders on-ice PR. They're not influenced by a playoff push or the drafting of John Tavares. They were influenced to move a little quicker when the Islanders got fans to rally and show up at hearings, but in the end we're still where we are now, in a stalemate before an expected TOH "rezoning plan" announcement that will surely fall well short of what Wang is asking for.

The barely breathing Lighthouse Project today rests on whether either side is willing to compromise, no? How does adding a big-name free agent for a lot of money move the Town of Hempstead to acquiesce toward Wang's position? If wins are a factor, doesn't Wang need an answer from TOH well before Ilya's presence (theoretically) leads to more wins next December (when pretenders finally slump and contenders get through the holidays above water)?

Counterargument: Maybe Scott Gordon reaches him the same way Ilya said Jacques Lemaire did. And hey, Brett Hull used to not backcheck while piling up goals on mediocre teams, and then he saw an opportunity to win Cups -- and met the right veterans to show him the way -- and suddenly he was a regular Guy Carbonneau out there.

 

10. Ten, Ten, Ten, Ten -- for EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING

Again with the Violent Femmes "Kiss Off" reference...hey, this is blogging, and 10 is a lot.

"EVERYTHING" is essentially what 10x10 is. But in the end, this is hockey and most of us are in this for the entertainment and the thrill. Cups are won through a variety of ways. Kovalchuk is a dynamic scorer. As I've said before and now, I'd happily take him streaking down the wing in Islanders Orange and Blue for the right situation. But not for the type of near-max deal he is widely reported to be asking. There are many reasons to want him -- including two interesting Russian prospects the Islanders have in their system -- though I'm not sure if those reasons are enough to want him for this long.

Yet if we're talking 10 years, Quisp at Kings blog Jewels From the Crown (who has written a ton about this saga as it relates to the Kings) has a much more palatable suggestion for any team: 10 years, $75 million, staggered downward so that $10+ million salaries are in the early years and it goes down from there. Everybody wins. (Except Ilya, if he's intent on $100 million.)

That'd be much better. In fact, while that would still be a hefty cap hit and cash layout, it would have the effect of allowing the Islanders more actual cash in those later years, which is important to teams that aren't as liquid as the league's big cashcows. There are ways to throw a lot of cash at Ilya for a more reasonable term -- which is probably what L.A. and New Jersey have in mind.

In the end, I think Ilya will milk whatever offers the Isles make to squeeze more money out of the closer-to-contending Kings and Devils. But if the unlikely happens and the Isles seal a big 10x10 deal with Ilya, I'm not going to be bugging you guys about it afterward. I'll be pulling for him and the team as always. I'll be hoping I'm wrong about ALL of this.

But in the meantime, I wanted to explain why I think it's too much, for too long, for the wrong guy. Thanks as always for reading and debating.

Comment 156 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Nicely Said

Great points!!! I’m with you on this Dom. Talk about buyers remorse!! Short term I’m cool with giving him the max amount of $ (for no more than 4 years) but anything more than that is crazy. If Wang is willing to spend some money wouldn’t it be better to go after Frolov hard (if Kovi want long term) for a shorter term deal?

by mdelbags on Jul 3, 2010 4:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks. Was thinking about Frolov

Haven’t examined his production and minutes as much, but it seems like two players at lesser production and far less salary/term is better (although getting such players is the eternal problem).

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well Said Dom

Lighthouse Hockey : The home of 10 year contracts

I get the feeling that if Kovy is going to come to Long Island (And remember the Devils will need to clear cap space to afford him at 7.5 million) he’s not going to budge off the demand for 10 × 10 unless the whole deal comes to 100 million.

The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!

by Mark D on Jul 3, 2010 5:03 PM EDT reply actions  

disagree, mildly, he and his agent took a chance, they turned down the $ earlier and saw them being in a position to demand more $… they were wrong, they all know it, the kings, the devs, the isles, the agent, only possible way he gets near max to max $ is to look to the island, his agent probably wants the longest possible, as they always do, and we probably cite the previous LTC’s as the counter agrument

and for my next joke, i was always more partial to 2×4′s not 10×10′s yooooooooo!

Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?

-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me

by bob l on Jul 3, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a feeling that if he hasn't signed now it ain't happening

That’s if those terms were offered.

In all seriousness, going by the supposition that those terms are offered, afterall this time gone by, it’s like saying “Yeah, you offered me a ten year deal at one hundred million, but you’re still my second choice.”

With that considered I have to wonder if I want a guy who really has to think about it and makes it clear we’re his second choice. That’s not a positive to start off a ten year relationship like that.

by Chickendirt on Jul 3, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

He had already made it clear that the Kings were his second choice, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we were his third choice and he left us swinging in the wind while he tried to get richer deals from either the Kings or Devils.

There’s even rumors now that the Flyers are after him, which make no sense. As it is they already have to get rid of Gagne and to afford Kovy they’d have to get rid of Carter too, which makes no sense.

The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!

by Mark D on Jul 3, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

That rumor is straight out of Russia- and is laughably impossible. The writers in Russia who fabricated this picked the Flyers because they went so far in the playoffs.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 3, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

but russian fabrics are strong are they not? ba dum bump

Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?

-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me

by bob l on Jul 3, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

he’s got nothing to do with the negotiations though, his agent deals with that, and he’s probably enjoying a nice weekend, like most of the world (besides us lol) i mean, look at the monster signings that took place today… none, and all the ones late last night were depth guys for the most part, hell, even lebron hasnt signed yet…

Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?

-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me

by bob l on Jul 3, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

And if the Isles are late (by a day?) to the proceedings, it would make sure they have some details to hash out.

Honestly, I don’t blame a single player for the NYI being the “second choice” right now. 1 year or 10 years, this is bottom-five club last year that’s constantly surrounded by location/owner-selling/owner-cutting-bait rumors. That sort of rep demands a little due diligence.

(But yeah, we’re probably the pawn that gets him more money from LA.)

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hacksaw Jim Duggan! Possibly the only useful thing/person to come out of Glens Falls other than Davidson Brother’s Brewery.

There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.

by David Hanssen on Jul 3, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

And this is why I think Afenigenov is the best value out there

You don’t have to pay him ten mill a season.

He won’t require a ten year contract (Although most of these terms are speculative)

You don’t have to worry about sticking a guy making ten mill a season on your second line.

You have money left over under the cap to buy depth on D (Lydman is still out there which could take Martinek off the Blue Line or just keep in the AHL for Depth)

You have money left over to extend Okposo, Bailey and Tavares. SHIT!!!! You can get on that now to meet the cap floor.

If Max doesn’t deliver, who cares? There’s still plenty of guys in the pipeline and you’re not stuck with him. He’s arguably just as bad as Kovie at 5 on 5.

At least you still have all the flexibility in the world to move on.

by Chickendirt on Jul 3, 2010 5:09 PM EDT reply actions  

max is going to be 31 in sept, has been inconsistent and coming off a revival kind of year (tied 2nd best career #’s and scored a career high 24, he is going to be looking to milk us for way more than kovi would (speaking pound for pound of course) in both years and $, he needs to cash in and i wouldnt be shocked if he wanted more then say oli jokinen, who got 3mil… so is it better paying the 1.8m per year guy double, or the 7.5-8 mil guy 10? i dont know the answer but i think its a fair question

Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?

-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me

by bob l on Jul 3, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

keep in mind too he might be more fragile than martinek, 10 years in the league, and 5 of them he missed a lot of time…

Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?

-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me

by bob l on Jul 3, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lydman is a Duck

Lydman signed with the ducks 3 years for $9mil…but I agree with your main point Afenigenov (or Frolov) short term makes way more sense than Kovi would long term. bob makes a good point though, he may price himself out of what the Isles should rationally pay him.

by mdelbags on Jul 3, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Botta disagrees with 9

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 3, 2010 5:26 PM EDT reply actions  

honestly, i agree with dom, but i can see this being more of this " if Wang thinks it will be a factor, than it IS a factor"

Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?

-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me

by bob l on Jul 3, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

TOH has made comments about the Isles before… about them not winning/rebuilding and saying that they dont tell CW how to run the team so CW cant tell them what to do. In that respect this would be something to point to. But much more than anything else like that, more winning and more ticket sales would be the biggest influence.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 3, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, but THEY ARE politicians what do you expect them to say? we can field an all-star team and they can spin out a new yarn to tell the people

Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?

-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me

by bob l on Jul 3, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do YOU disagree with #9?

I put that out on Twitter and got no responses. Have to figure it’s Wang Theory at work, but I’m honestly waiting for an explanation: How does lavishing money on the guy get a better response from TOH in the next month to 6 months? I’m just skeptical that affects TOH constituents who are already NIMBY.

Though I guess a Russian star still looks better than a community leech casino.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly I don’t think the second comings of Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Potvin and LILCO on the Islanders would change the Lighthouse situation at this point.

There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.

by David Hanssen on Jul 3, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

All we know is that the Kings have offered 7 and the Devs told him to wait for a while. Why would the Isles have to offer THAT much more for THAT much longer? Ill wait til I hear the actual offer (if one ever even comes to fruition) before I criticize the teams offer.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 3, 2010 5:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Because he’s still waiting to hear from the Devils?

But his flirting with the Islanders means that Lou can’t just wait until Kovy has no where else to go. We are going to have enough cap space to sign Kovy no matter who we sign.

The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!

by Mark D on Jul 3, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m like you, if 10/10 doesn’t have this done already- I think we are getting played. Ain’t gonna happen.

Just say NO to long term contracts.

by since70too on Jul 3, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rumors and what-not

Yeah, a whole precondition of this discussion is that we don’t know what the reality is. Before this morning, I thought no way in hell ANY team offers 10 × 10.

But since that was the (weirdly worded) “as much as” offer reported by a couple MSM reporters’ sources (one in LA, one in Canada), I thought it worth addressing from that angle.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Such offers are in Wang's history
Why would the Isles have to offer THAT much more for THAT much longer?

I agree, but I also thought that in 2001 and 2006. This IS where the Yashin thing comes into play. Wang is big into the loyalty/commitment thing, which is why he threw that number out there far and above anything Yashin had been seeking.

If Wang is still into that theory…

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anybody have a sense of.....

…..what Ilya’s rep is with the media and how much he’s been a part of the community in Atlanta?

by ogam5 on Jul 3, 2010 5:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Happy part of the Russian community in ATL

He’s done his share locally, from what I understand. Bbeen a good soldier in a lot of respects, thought not a huge limelight seeker. He’s also apparently a shy and family-oriented guy. Hardly an Avery! I wouldn’t expect him to bail on that end of being a team’s marquee guy.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amen- all I can say

Well reasoned argument Dominik. Thanks. Let’s spend that 10 Million on Frolov, Torres, Ashem and what ever D-men are still out there. No commital for more then 2-3 years- when we will really know what our needs are to complete a championship roster.

Just say NO to long term contracts.

by since70too on Jul 3, 2010 5:47 PM EDT reply actions  

AHMEN!!

If Garth and the Wanger ever read a blog about the Isles I hope its this one!! Get away from the phone and shred up that contract Mr. Wang!!! (if it is indeed 10×10)

by mdelbags on Jul 3, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Argue against the deal all you want but for gods sake this Kovalchuk = Yashin stuff is re-damn-diculous.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 3, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta agree here, although Kovy might be defensive deficient, he at least doesn’t have the history (sitting out for a season) that Yashin did.

The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!

by Mark D on Jul 3, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yashin was/is also a different type of player. While he did put up 40 goals twice in his NHL career, he wasn’t/isn’t the pure goalscorer Kovy is. I think a better comparison would be Kovy to Bure, both very talented goal scorers that lacked the, ummm, defensive aspects of the game.

There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.

by David Hanssen on Jul 3, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with Dom, sort of

I really want Kovalchuk. I think it would be great for the team, and we may see results a little quicker. But not at the term that has been discussed.

I would pay him 40 mil over 4 years in a heartbeat. We aren’t getting him otherwise. But if we sign him for longer I am burning one of my Isles jerseys (I won’t burn the Tavares one, but may burn the plain white one I have). We have the money to spend, and I think it would be an decent move to generate excitement.

However I am not saying we are the Hawks, but I love our young guys, and I would hate to see another Campbell/Huet situation whereby the Hawks have to unload a bunch of periphery players after a Cup run.

4 year – 40 mil. Any longer and take a pass and go after some secondary free agents.

by Rhinos on Jul 3, 2010 7:12 PM EDT reply actions  

In Lou We Trust

I am not going to get pulled into the argument of term and dollars and whether or not he is worth it,but I respectfully disagree about the perceived holes in his game.If Lou Lamoriello,the Godfather of defense first and team systems paid such a stiff price for him and wants to get him re-signed if at all possible then methinks his defensive shortcomings are way overrated.

by Isle Of Weight on Jul 3, 2010 7:27 PM EDT reply actions  

It's worth considering, fo rsure

And gives me pause. But Lou’s history with longer deals isn’t all that hot, either (Mogilny?). The man can make mistakes. And does anyone else get the feeling Lou’s having a harder time adapting NJD to life in the post-lockout NHL?

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. I don’t even think it’s that controversial of a position. If he didn’t have his name people would look at his salary cap era record and not be very impressed. I’ve been talking about this with my brother for a while now, both of us have a suspicion that he’s going to retire when Brodeur retires and leave his successor basically nothing to work with. They don’t have much of a farm, and they don’t even have many key NHL players once you get past Parise (who has to be signed after this season, how does a Kovalchuk deal affect that?). I think Lou is running on past reputation at this point.

And the “are you going to argue with Lou” statement is silly. None of us can claim to be as smart as any NHL GM so what would be the point of having discussion boards if that statement applied. Steve Yzerman left Steve Stamkos off Team Canada and then the kid won the Richard. Was that a good move? No. It didn’t cost Team Canada but I don’t see how you can just boil it down to “X GM knows what they are talking about so don’t question him.” Jim Rutherford had that kind of reputation as recently as a couple years ago and now CAR is borderline in shambles.

Sometimes you need a criminal lawyer, sometimes you need a criminal lawyer.

by Rob Parker on Jul 6, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lou's plenty smart

the problem he has is that he has to compete in the NY market. Even when the Islanders were a dynasty, the Rangers had such a hold on the area that it was hard to compete. If his team is not lights out better, he will have a hard time competing for fanbase. His team has been floundering in the playoffs since 2003 and he felt he needed to shake things up. I think he made a mistake. He should have been patient, held on to Bergfors and in a few years team him up with Tedenby and Josefson as well as Parise and the bunch and they would have been unstoppable. Patience is the key.

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 6, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kovi's defensive shortcomings are what they are

I think it’s more a matter that Lou felt that his team was good enough defensively that he could simply have his coach tell Kovi, “You score goals, we’ll worry about the defense.”

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 6, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Something not really being discussed

Botta claims he can’t confirm the deal.

Kings were aiming for around 7M.

Devils can at max pay 7.5M but I really don’t believe they would go that high.

I understand why Isles fans are sticking to the 10×10 number (it is what leaked) but at the same time if we’re actually serious about this why would we just barge in and make such an offer.

I don’t believe a lot of the bullshit swirling around. I don’t doubt the Isles made a dramatic entrance into the negotiations but I don’t believe we have an offer on the table yet. YES we probably need to overbid and YES Wang is insane but I also believe Snow and Wang know how to negotiate and I doubt they burst in with an offer that much higher so quickly.

Granted the counter argument is that Wang has not exactly shown such an ability in the past……

How would you guys feel about an 8×8 deal? There is some room where we still overpay to get him and not devastate the franchise I feel. There are a lot of benefits to Kovy coming here and to be honest even the taste of it kind of shows how much we all want this. It may be early in the rebuild for such a move but I’m ready to be excited again and if it can start quicker – F it i’m in……for all the time i’ve spent owrrying about this franchise i’d rather see us go down in flames with kovy than continue a slow rebuild and watch them leave.

 It’s a little early to swing for the fences but at the same time it is starting to get late.

by nyi22 on Jul 3, 2010 7:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Also I forgot

The original intent of my post.

There is a lot of value for Kovy in something like a 5-7 year deal in that it’ll expire before he’s 35 and thus a 35+ contract player. Then (assuming no changes to the CBA) he could sign a pronger-esque deal with a contender with trailing off pay into retirement to lower his cap hit and make a run at a cup. Honestly signing with the Kings for 10 years or even the Devils with Brodeur leaving and some kind of backlash coming eventually (they can’t make the playoffs forever) is not exactly a dream scenario if winning is what he cares about. Short term/Large pay could be very attractive to him.

by nyi22 on Jul 3, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Botta reports that the Isles have been in negotiations with Kovy since the opening of the FA Period. I believe the 10 × 10 might be more because that’s what Kovy is claiming he wants, and Kings/Devils have basically laughed that off. But if he wants that much he basically is left with only the Isles being able to afford it.

The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!

by Mark D on Jul 3, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly, I think Kovy has some serious chutzpah to ask for more than Crosby or Ovechkin make, especially when there are a very limited number of teams that could make him that offer.

There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.

by David Hanssen on Jul 3, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

If crosby or Ovechkin got their deals as UFA the same year, they would make more. Thats what happens when guys sign deals with the teams that draft them instead of going to market, and its what happens as years go by. IT wasnt that long ago that the teams who spent wildly were spending about as much as the Isles will be forced to spend next season just to make the cap floor.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 3, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Prices are going up, and this is what hanging on until UFA gets you for sure. But other UFAs or about-to-be UFAs have signed for much better cap hits. Long term deals that decline at the end (as they should, when the player is declining). That’s the kind of deal I’d want with Ilya.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

:)
but I’m ready to be excited again and if it can start quicker – F it i’m in……for all the time i’ve spent owrrying about this franchise i’d rather see us go down in flames with kovy than continue a slow rebuild and watch them leave.

Hee hee, oh I hear that. Some level of craziness is tempting. Essentially, I’m trying to reward my last few years of patience and low finishes by not jumping too soon. There will come a time for a plunge of sorts (Chicago went at Campbell, then Hossa), I’m just doubting we’re there yet.

As for the non-confirmation, in truth no contract anywhere makes this post all hypothetical. But I’m not at all surprised that an offer like this cannot be confirmed. Probably a handful of NYI people at the highest level know, plus an agent and a player, and I doubt the NHL office would know yet. Then if/when Ilya took such an offer back to LA/NJ, then more people would know and possibly have a self-interest in “confirming” it. Not saying I think there is a 10×10 offer on the table, just that if there is I bet it’s hush-hush.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Late to the dance...

…but I’m with the prom queen. 10 for 10 Dom. Keep Wang out of the negotiations… PLEASE! Can we get Milbury back as a consultant?
$10each for 10 cans of Ready-whip to put on a home made banana split… with green bananas… just so you can do whip-its…
Go get yourself some cool whip for $3.29 at the A&P!

The NY Islanders are about to redo the salary cap floor with russian marble!

by JPinVA on Jul 3, 2010 8:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Snow this evening

via nhl.com:

“I’m not going to repeat this everyday,” Snow told Strang. “I’ve had a conversation with his agent and I’ll leave it at that.”
Hee hee, I do get a kick out of Snow’s gravelly attitude. Essentially: I’m doing my job right now; if something happens, I’ll let you know then and do that part of my job.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow, I’m surprised that wasn’t followed by a “Now back the f—k off b—ch”

There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.

by David Hanssen on Jul 3, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

These scenarios have to drive GMs nuts

Lou says “nothing’s changed.” Lombardi says he’s working on things. All of them have to think, “I’m negotiating here. Why the hell would I disclose terms? Who is the punk in my office, in the agent’s office, or in the NHL office who is singing?”

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously

She doesnt know how to ask the right questions, though- she could ask him something other than the same ol shit, but would it even dawn on her? She didnt even bother to ask about guys like Bergie when they leave, a player who had been in our organization since she was in frickin HS listening to Lil BowWow.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 3, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Letting Bergie go with nary a word is just poor. That is where I miss Logan most — he had that old reporter’s grumpiness where he’d force answers on topics like that. And he called them to task when they weren’t giving out basic info every beatwriter can expect to get. Funny, I always heard the org didn’t like Logan, wonder why lol.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  


I’m old, and I’m not happy… Back in my day (Shakes fist)

There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.

by David Hanssen on Jul 3, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

/guilty as charged.
Mrs. Lighthouse: “You were born a grumpy 52-year-old man.”
Siblings: “She’s right.”

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree with the majority of your reasons...

especially 6 and 9 where I think your 100% wrong.

Most of the other reasons have some merit, but are being way over blown.

10 for 10 is too much I agree, but I also understand the reasoning of why we may have to do it, and I’m like 60/40 in favor. I would prefer we pay our cards right a do a more reasonable 5-6 year deal.

Salary aside the positives at bringing in Kovy far out weigh the negatives. I can’t beleive your going to sit and knock a 50+ goals scorer on his defense when you look at some of the jokers we gave ice time to last year.

There are reasons why we continually fall short of the playoffs, and not signing a player like Kovy is reason 1.

by Judgegavel on Jul 3, 2010 8:29 PM EDT reply actions  

50?

Kovalchuk has scored 50 in two of his eight seasons. Think he’ll do it again? How often? How much is once or twice more times worth? What if JT outscores him in two years, then what’s his contract demand?

Regarding defense, it’s easy for me: There are two parts to this game. It’s not rec hockey, and it’s not 1985. Full effort at both ends is required of a player, particularly at the relentless pace the game is played today. There’s no room for passengers in the NHL. If you’re not covering your man both ways, your extra 5-15 goals aren’t so impressive when they come at the cost of so many against.

I’d say we’ve fallen short of the playoffs lately because we’re rebuilding, and we fell short or just barely made it earlier in the decade because we had players like that but were too impatient or cheap to keep them. If the Isles iced a bunch of jokers last year, Kovy would help in the next few seasons, for sure. But if it’s 10 years at 10M, I’m arguing that money now and in the future is better spent on replacing several of the jokers with several good players, not one who has been put in the ideal situation for his shot to get him 40-goal seasons.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t remember, but weren’t there reports that some Devils players were unhappy that Kovy basically got free reign to do whatever he wanted while the rest of the players had to stick to the system.

The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!

by Mark D on Jul 3, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think there was, though that whole team imploded down the stretch so it’s hard to sort what was what. People turning on Lemaire, their CAPTAIN bailing on Lemaire. Lot of weird stuff there.

One thing for sure: Atlanta’s and New Jersey’s PP would start to consist solely of feeding Kovalchuk at the point and half-boards. Unless that works at a record clip, that’s a problem.

With Kovy’s defense, I don’t even know if it’s selfishness or glory-seeking. He’s been coddled as “the franchise” from such a young age, it’s possible he was never really taught this side and doesn’t have the natural instincts for it. I often heard fans in Atlanta lament that he was never held accountable for blown assignments by the coaches, so how could he ever learn to change his ways?

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

chicks dig the long ball, and I dig hat tricks, pay the man Charlie :-)

Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?

-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me

by bob l on Jul 3, 2010 10:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

But the point is we can't get anyone but jokers...

I certainly would have been more happy if we spent the money on Michalek or Volchenkov where it belongs, but the truth is we are never going to get those player until we win and ownership shows they are willing to spend to do so. Kovy will certainly help us in doing both, and accomplish it faster than any other signing/signings.

As for JT, whats he going to do when he scores 40, and sees we aren’t paying anyone else to come in to help?

by Judgegavel on Jul 3, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, but that will be a far worse scenario than you put forth...

I could only dream we have both JT and Kovy scoring 40+ in the same line-up, and JT’s asking for more money, as a fan I would absolutely love that. Yea it would suck for Wang, except he’d be drawing like a MF so I don’yt think he’ll be complaining to much.

by Judgegavel on Jul 3, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would $100 million make us look like spenders...or desperate?

My key concern is that you need value contracts to build a winner — even more so when you don’t have the cash to spend to the cap. A team on a budget overpaying for a decade means less money to re-sign Tavares or add others. (Obviously we disagree on how valuable Ilya is though, so that point sort of stalemates.)

There are plenty of ways to surround Tavares with talent without jumping in now. They’re actually doing that already (it’s the slow route, but the surest route for a team with little revenue and no history of attracting free agents). Keep getting better, finalize an arena future, and other guys will want to come without crazy offers. If Wang is suddenly going to spend to the cap, great. If not…less money for decent players.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does over paying stars make the Yankees look desperate?

Simply no, it shows the team is willing to pay what ever it takes to win. Look at CC Sabathia, did they over pay him, certainly, has it worth it completely.

Now on the other had if we had Ed Mangano, Billy Joel, Kevin Connolly and others out there doing a “Will ya Ilya” campaign, that would look desperate.

Its Wang’s decision to make its his frigging money, he sets the budget he can change it.

The money will come with the new arena.

The new arena will come more easily (along with Wang being in a better negotiating position) whe the team draws better.

The team will draw better with Kovy because 1) he is a star, someone you want to watch every night 2) they instantly become a better team this year with him.

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wait, the Yankees routinely have an exorbitant payroll

…and no cap. And a willingness to pay the luxury tax. And a firm rep of paying to get the best talent at whatever the cost.

The Isles are totally different. I hear people saying, “This would finally make the league respect the Isles,” but I’m thinking it’s more likely to make league-wide people say, “Wang is doing it again.”

Not that I care all that much about what others think (at least not enough to alter decision-making), but I’m not sure a 10×10 deal would do much for the image.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 4, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Wang is doing it again."

seeing quite a lot of that in the blogosphere actually. Look at the comments on this Friedman piece, for example:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/elliottefriedman/2010/07/islanders-making-serious-push-for-kovalchuk.html#socialcomments

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 4, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

There is technically a cap in baseball, the Yankees had to pay something like 60-80 million in fines for being over the cap last year. But if you’ve ever been to a Yankee game in person, the way they price everything that’s hardly a drop in the bucket.

The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!

by Mark D on Jul 4, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t forget the YES Network. At this point the cable station is easily worth more than the 3 Billion it was worth in August of 2007 when Goldman Sachs tried to purchase it from the Steinbrenner group. That’s 3 times Forbes estimate for the value of the team itself. Simply put, the Yankees can afford to spend crazy money because they make crazy money.

There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.

by David Hanssen on Jul 4, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was only using the Yanks as an example with the CC contract and overpaying...

not overall payroll.

“Wang is doing it again” I guess can only be applied to the Rick contract, at that has somewhat bit him in the a$$ on its own.

I don’t care what the owners think, I’m thinking from the players perspective, we sign Ilya for what ever we have to, and next year other FA will look at us differently. And I mean in a good way.

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can all just kiss off into the air. Behind my back, I can see them stare. They’ll hurt me bad, but I won’t mind. They’ll sign with you, they do it all the ti-ime.

Yeah, yeah! They do it all the tiiiime.

In Dinglebarn We Trust

by Niesy on Jul 3, 2010 9:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Time-time-time-time time-ta-time-time…

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 3, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why can't they get a reasonable facsimile

When I get the MSG++ feed I can’t tell who the players are anyway? Just give a big guy a number with a 7 in it, who’s name starts with a “K”, who can skate and shoot….
Hmmm… RUSH KABANOV and you save $9M for 7 years!!!

The NY Islanders are about to redo the salary cap floor with russian marble!

by JPinVA on Jul 3, 2010 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

haha MSG ++ is the worst even when u shrink the screen back down to letterbox

Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?

-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me

by bob l on Jul 3, 2010 11:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

One point you didn't mention, maybe it was #8...

This deal, although I am for it in some way (maybe not as many years, or tiered in some way, or something), is going to drive up the asking price for other free agents. Other GM’s are now praying this deal doesn’t happen at 10yrs/$10 mill because now every other free agent will want the same. Honestly, we may price ourselves out of future negotiations with other stars. That may be one reason this is dangerous. The Yashin/DP deals started the bad trend of long-term deals (Richards, Ovie). This may start raising the price. Other guys may not get it, but they’ll definately start at $10 mill a season.

by billymac23 on Jul 3, 2010 10:56 PM EDT reply actions  

It all depends who you give the long term deals to and for how much money. Richards’ contract is a steal and he’s going to outperform that every year without even considering cap inflation. The Ovechkin deal isn’t a “bargain” but it’s tied up in a legitimate franchise player, and was signed at a time when the Caps were worrying about that league credibility stuff that has been touched on in these comments. There are some bad long term contracts but I think the ones that have been signed recently have been justifiable and prudent. The Nick Backstrom contract is flat out robbery.

Sometimes you need a criminal lawyer, sometimes you need a criminal lawyer.

by Rob Parker on Jul 6, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

it shouldn't be a 10 year deal

but 5 years might be OK. One thing you do not seem to have addressed is the fact that the money really needs to be spent anyway. How else is he going to spend it? By my count, he’s got 21 roster spots filled. And that’s without Nino, Hamonic, Martin, Joensuu, not adding a nackup goalie who doesn’t have a trick knee, and leaving Lawson in Bridgeport for 911 callup.

So what are his choices? Pay Frolov $4 mil and bring in one of the available #1s for $5 mil—who then becomes the de facto #1 effectively screwing Roly out of the job? That’s about the only other way I can see. But maybe I am missing something. I probably am.

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 4, 2010 4:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Forwards

We still only have at best 8-9 NHL forwards inked for next year. Not sure if Parentau got a one way contract. Either way he can still go to the minors- just pay him full pop. So we need three forwards. Picking is slim, but we’ve already been talking to Frolov. How about him, Ponikarovsky and Asham. With Arrons shot and speed maybe he could find some offence under Go-Go, to go along with his smart-nasty. He has really devoloped since his fisrt tour.

Just say NO to long term contracts.

by since70too on Jul 4, 2010 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

it is one way and I have a different total

assuming that we sign Moulson and Schremp we have:

JT, Moulson, KO, Josh, Schremp, Comeau, Hunts, Nielsen, Weight, Gillies, Konopka, Parenteau = 12

Botta has said that Parenteau has a one way and WILL be on the roster.

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 4, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Parenteau is not completely one-way

he can be sent to Europe, odd but true.

Gillies also isn’t a lock, and Weight obviously isn’t signed yet, nor would I pencil him in for a regular spot, he’s more like a part time player coach now. Considering Gillies, and Konopka, are essentially goones, and in Scott’s system will not play every game you do have 2-3 spots that can be filled. Although I’m fully expecting Nino to make the team out of camp, and if Petrov shows enough, I wouldn’t be surprised if something is worked out with the KHL (I mean why is he here otherwise?)

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Parenteau isn’t going to Europe and Weight’s deal, according to Garth, is in essence done. They will both be on the roster. If they do not have Gillies and Konopka on the fourth line (and I am not sure whether their deals were one way or two), they really have no one else for fourth line roles. These guys will be on the roster. I would not expect Petrov to be on the roster in any event. If something IS worked out with the KHL, he will be in Bridgeport until he has established that he is NHL-ready…more or less like Hamonic, Joensuu, Martin, and Katic. So there really are few options left as I see it. It’s Kovi or a new #1 and Frolov or…

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 4, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weight will be on the roster but I count him as the 13th forward.

basically the ying to our enforcers yang. I would assume Parenteau will be there as well, but I think the Euro clause means they have an out if they really want to go with JJ add Nino or on the off chance Petrov is brought in. Basically its Parenteaus spot to lose, but he could lose it.

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting according to CB todaay, Petrov says he’s going back to Russia if he doesn’t make the NHL out of camp.

by Judgegavel on Jul 6, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is, but they were saying he gets paid so little, and the player has the option to pay 2/3 his contract and he can just walk. So it doesn’t take a KHL agreement, I guess if he signs a contract with the Isles and gets enough, he can just by himself out.

by Judgegavel on Jul 6, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes- I think may have been discussed

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 7, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

BC- i said I think its already been discussed, not that it cant happen

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 7, 2010 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

yes, but as I said

if the KHL still has to approve it, then it is far from a done deal regardless of Kirill’s intentions.

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 7, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to be nitpicky, but...

Nothing in there is what he (Petrov) said- it is what someone else said someone else said Petrov said. There is a big difference. But even if we go by this three degree of separation thing, nobody said that Petrov said that, exactly. What was said is that if he isnt going to be played here, he is going to honor the contract he already has in Russia. This kid has to buy himself out of that contract, its going to cost a LOT, and he probably doesnt want to do it and be broke if the Isles arent even going to use him. I do not blame him one bit.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 6, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um considering we don’t speak Russian thats the only way we’re going to get info from him.

by Judgegavel on Jul 6, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um that doesnt change the fact that there are no “QUOTES” from him in any language, it was people talking ABOUT what he said, out of context. But you want to treat that as if it is him answering questions anyway, go right ahead.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 6, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

There’s really nothing new in that post, and while Chesnokov is a nice source, there’s just no hard information there. None. Everything is still so conditional, and you can see it in Chesnokov’s word choice.

Until we actually see an under-contract KHLer buy his way out — no matter how “inexpensive” it is, I’m not holding my breath. Hope it happens. Would love for us to be the first. But right now history has given us great reason to be weary about vague pledges about Russian players moving over.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 7, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Until we actually see an under-contract KHLer buy his way out — no matter how "inexpensive" it is, I’m not holding my breath. Hope it happens. Would love for us to be the first. But right now history has given us great reason to be weary about vague pledges about Russian players moving over.

Exactly, Dom. If it happens, it will be a remarkable thing. And if it does happen, then nobody- NOBODY- should question this kids committment to playing NHL hockey!!!!!!

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 7, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

This kid has to buy himself out of that contract, its going to cost a LOT,

Actually Dmitry Chesnokov, the one reporting the information said he does not get paid much (almost no young players in the KHL do), so it’s not going to cost a LOT.

by Judgegavel on Jul 6, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you kidding me?
I dont care if he was only going to make 100 friggin K for the next few years, he has to buy that out with his OWN money. WTF do you think that is, easy? This kid isnt a millionaire. Would you buy out a couple of years salary at a job you love if you didnt even know whether you had another job lined up yet? You need to put yourself in his situation before you pass judgments like this and say what is and isnt a lot of money.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 6, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no problem with him getting an entry level contract

and, if the CBA allows, being given a bonus that would cover the buyout and relocation costs. The important thing is that he spend time in Bridgeport getting familiar with NA hockey.

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 6, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

not allowed

Thats the whole thing.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 7, 2010 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

his contract was 4 years, 1M per year when i read up on him 2 years ago, so i would guess it will cost him 1.333M… so essentially he’s looking at a wash, as a 3rd rounder, at best we pay him around 50th overall money even if he wants first round $, we’ve a history of this so he wont be a rich man by playing here, in a way, it shows how dedicated he is to playing here

Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?

-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me

by bob l on Jul 6, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks Bob- I knew that (about his contract) but didnt remember the money.

Honestly- that is a LOT of money for a teenager to just give to the KHL if he doesnt even know whether he has a job once he gets here. I do not blame this kid one bit for wanting some security before he makes such a gigantic leap of faith and moves literally across the world to a place without his family, his friends, people spaking a different language, etc.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 7, 2010 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do not blame this kid one bit for wanting some security before he makes such a gigantic leap of faith

No doubt, me neither. The language barrier sure adds one level of cloudiness, as does all things Russian, but all the talk of him talking with his agent gives me the feeling something will get it done, but it will be weird and people will gladly look the other way. It should be interesting. I sure hope we don’t get burned.

Lighthouse Hockey: "A f#$%ing haven of reason compared to practically every other Islanders site." --TMC

by Dominik on Jul 8, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well he could just not spend it...

and let the league divvy up what ever he’s short by.

I can totally get on board not giving him 10 years, but I think we are going to have to do at least 6-7.

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

in other words

just increase the cap hit for each Islander player to reach the floor? If the NHL lets a team do that, why on earth does it bother to have a cap floor?

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 4, 2010 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why do they let a buy out count against the cap?

is that in any way good for the sport.

Still a 1000X better than the NBA though.

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let buyouts count against the cap

I think the thinking there was to prevent the Rangers from buying every free agent possible, then simply buying out their mistakes (which is still cheaper than burying them in the minors at full price). I believe there was another reason which escapes me at the moment.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 4, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The cap floor ensures that all teams spend at least X on the players they ice.
It is also required to be met for a team to be eligible for revenue sharing (but that does not apply to us of course since the Islanders are such a big market team.)

What are you getting at? What about this makes you feel that the cap floor should not exist? What did you think they did to teams without enough money- fine them hundreds of thousands of dollars? Now THAT would make no sense.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 4, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dont think BC is saying it shouldn't exist...

just that there should be better/more severe repercussions when its not.

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

severe repercussions make sense when a team is over the ceiling- but any team that is below the floor is doing so because they do not have money to throw around. Fining teams in that situation would make that situation even worse- and how would that possibly benefit the NHL????

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 4, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

But you also shouldn't be allowed to run a continually bad business...

the minimum was set by the owners and the league if they cant reach it the league should step in

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the thinking with the floor is that you don’t want a KC Royals situation, where the owner keeps a paltry payroll and sucks up revenue sharing with no forced incentive to spend/get better.

I think they should have built in a wider range from floor to ceiling as the cap ceiling went up. But this issue always gets to a lot of major competing interests (Comcast/MSG vs. Nashville … NHLPA vs. mid-market owners … NHL wanting to grow the expansion markets healthily without throwing big markets’ revenue sharing money after bad, etc.)

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 4, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

if the Isles DON'T have to reach the cap floor

why are we even talking about the cap floor in the context of any possible Kovi deal? If there is no penalty attached to not reaching the cap floor, why is it even discussed? Either they do have to reach the floor and a deal like the one with Kovi is essential or they don’t and the cap floor is just a lame excuse.

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 4, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The whole thing with the Cap floor is two fold.

The Islanders will HAVE to spend the money if they don’t hit the floor anyway. So if they are 10 million away (which they won’t be) they’ll still have to spend the money to reach the floor.

No ones ever entered the season without being at least at the cap floor. I think it’s more a curiosity thing around the league and it’s fans/writers then an actual “oh my god how dare the Isles not hit the cap”

The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!

by Mark D on Jul 4, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I simply cannot find anythng on the web definitive

would the average hit needed to reach the floor be automatically added to the players salaries as judge suggested? Then it is simply a matter of spending the money on a player than for nothing, I suppose. And it would not improve the Isles image around the NHL if that happened either.

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 4, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

as per ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles, yesterday...
… I read through the collective bargaining agreement (http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf). On page 200 (of the contract, not the adobe document), Section 50.5©(i) states that "No Club shall, after commencement of the regular season, be permitted to have an Averaged Club Salary that falls below the Lower Limit for that League Year."

But it does not say what the penalty is, according to TMC the difference is split by the players.

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

and that makes sense, I suppose

A few things:

A) What is the gap between the current payroll and the floor? I have seen some say $9 mil, others $10 mil, and one guy on BR calculated $11 mil.

B) Have all the still to be signed players been figured in or will those signings serve to close the gap?

So, for example, if the gap is $9 mil and Moulson, Weight, Schremp, and Reese (did I leave anyone out?) have yet to be counted against that, their salaries could easily come to $5 mil. Then give Frolov $4 mil assuming he wants to sign here and you are at the cap. If there was a gap, it would be so small as to be meaningless.

On the other hand, if the gap is $11 mil and those salaries have already been counted, maybe they have to give Kovi $10 mil and still take a hit unless Nino is added to the roster and even then there might be a small hit.

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 4, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

They haven’t signed Moulson, etc. yet. They extended qualifying offers to them for now, which I believe is either a 10% or 20% raise for one year. But that doesn’t mean that’s what they’ll sign for. They can still work out a longer and better paying contract.

So, yes, those salaries have yet to been included. I don’t know what the exact delta is at the moment, from the current salary to the floor.

Warning: This post may cause Yashin Rashes, Spano Spasms, and Dingle Milburys.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Jul 4, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

'The money really needs to be spent anyway'

I sort of addressed that, in that I’m fine with a shorter, max-money deal: Now the money “needs” to be spent (with fewer and fewer enticing UFA targets out there). In three years the money will not need to be spent. In five years it will most certainly not need to be spent, unless all our young pups flee.

I would make the Hossa argument to Kovy: “Look, you want an gargantuan deal but your only two suitors are reluctant to give you the bank and the kitchen sink. Spend a year with us, at $11 million, show us and everyone you can carry a team, then watch everyone drool over you next summer.”

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 4, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

we are agreed that a shorter deal is better

I would think that if we stayed at the cap floor for the next five years and just added as needed to re-sign JT and others, we should not exceed the cap ceiling. But five years is better for Kovi as well. If he wants a Cup, he would not want to be stuck on another team that was not anywhere near getting there after five years. I am convinced that we will have another Cup in five years…with or without Kovi…but he might help us get there sooner and get more fans in the seats.

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 4, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

show us and everyone you can carry a team

That’s the problem. He can’t and won’t.

Sometimes you need a criminal lawyer, sometimes you need a criminal lawyer.

by Rob Parker on Jul 6, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be fun to force him to put his money where his mouth performance where his money demand is.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 7, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would make the Hossa argument to Kovy: "Look, you want an gargantuan deal but your only two suitors are reluctant to give you the bank and the kitchen sink. Spend a year with us, at $11 million, show us and everyone you can carry a team, then watch everyone drool over you next summer."

Personally, Id love it.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 6, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would this work?

How about offering Kovi 4 years at the absolute current max ($11.8 million), and then $10 million for the following two years, and then $1 million less for each year. That would be a total of $97.2 million over the ten years, but the decreasing value allows retaining our future stars. Also, Kovi can opt out of any year after the $11.8 million seasons. It’s doubtful he’d opt out when making ten, but once he “falls” to seven-digit territory, he might leave voluntarily, either to join a contender or for more money.

I’m making a few assumptions:

1) That the salary hit is not averaged over the course of the ten years, so the hit would be whatever he’s making that year (and not the average of $9.72 million).
2) That opting out of the contract causes no hit against the cap.
3) That the Islanders won’t always stick to the salary floor, and would go closer to the ceiling when they have a new arena and more money is pouring in.

Would that work for you guys?

Warning: This post may cause Yashin Rashes, Spano Spasms, and Dingle Milburys.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Jul 4, 2010 9:58 AM EDT reply actions  

I like that thinking but its still a little to much...

but to have this done right no matter how long it really should start at the max (or at 10) for 2-3 then go down. If thats the case it works perfect for us.

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do not believe any type of opt-out option is allowed on any NHL contracts.
The closest you can get to that is having some kind of a European league agreement written in, and give the player a limited trade clause so that he can be moved, but to the team(s) of his choosing at that time.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 4, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also, the cap hit is the average of the whole contract

So $97 million over 10 years means a $9.7 million hit every season. …Which maybe isn’t a problem, if Wang never plans to spend to the cap anyway. If you always plan on having cap room, there is definite value in having lower cash outlays later on in contracts (this is what Anaheim got in both the Blake and Vishnovsky trades: Guys with bigger cap hits than the actual money they’re being paid.)

This is pretty fun, though. I should have titled this post, “You be the GM: Negotiate a deal that makes sense for Ilya and the Isles.” But you know, in blogese they always encourage numbered lists for cheap clicks. {vomits}

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 4, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, save the vomiting for later tonight!

It’s a holiday, man. Pace yourself!

So, the Yashin cap hit is different because his contract was signed prior to the lockout?

Double rats. I’m out of ideas. I was going to say that the lower salary at least would make Kovi more attractive to other teams for a trade in those later years, but not if the cap hit goes along with him.

(Hat tip also to Styxcanada, who stated as much about the cap rules below.)

Warning: This post may cause Yashin Rashes, Spano Spasms, and Dingle Milburys.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Jul 4, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoops....

…. actually he didn’t, but I like his idea anyway.

Warning: This post may cause Yashin Rashes, Spano Spasms, and Dingle Milburys.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Jul 4, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is a rule against decreasing your salary as drastically as you propose. You’d have to drop from 11.8 to 8 to 5 to 1 or something like that. I think it’s that you can’t decrease by more than 50% of the highest paid year but I haven’t checked the CBA to confirm. I do know that you can’t just go 10 to 1 in successive years.

Sometimes you need a criminal lawyer, sometimes you need a criminal lawyer.

by Rob Parker on Jul 6, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Luongo:
SEASON NHL SALARY
2010-2011 $10,000,000
2011-2012 $6,716,000
2012-2013 $6,714,000
2013-2014 $6,714,000
2014-2015 $6,714,000
2015-2016 $6,714,000
2016-2017 $6,714,000
2017-2018 $6,714,000
2018-2019 $3,382,000
2019-2020 $1,618,000
2020-2021 $1,000,000
2021-2022 $1,000,000

Too bad they dont have it set up so that NO years in one contract can be more than 50% apart. But NOOOO- that would actually support the spirit of the salary cap instead of circumventing it.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 6, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do know that you can’t just go 10 to 1 in successive years.

I think he was saying decrease it by $1 million each year; but he was also mistakenly thinking that would lower the cap hit in each year, so it’s moot.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 7, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Damn. Oh, well.

Warning: This post may cause Yashin Rashes, Spano Spasms, and Dingle Milburys.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Jul 4, 2010 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

How about...

Wang agrees to sign some lesser FAs and then slips 5 mil in a brown paper bag to Kate ? That would likely have a far greater impact on getting the lighthouse done than signing anyone and may well be what that crusty old $%# has been waiting for.

Have to say that i’m not convinced by the whole, get this guy and we’re in the playoffs sentiment. The Thrashees (mispelling intentional) haven’t exactly torn up the league with him and some other decent talent over the years. The lightning had Stamkos, St Louis, Lecalier etc and didn’t make the playoffs last year. One good or even great player doesn’t lead to success they just help things along.

This is alot like the talk before last years draft. If we get Tavares we’ll be great again. The year after Pittsburgh got Crosby they drafter Malkin, how did they manage that? They still sucked. Ovechkin has spent a fair amount of time with the Crapitals but only in the last few years have they started to be a dangerous team. It takes a good deal of depth to win in today’s NHL. Yes you need top end talent but you win when your second line is better than everyone elses and your third line can dominate thiers. Paying 10 mil for anyone means you have to make cuts elsewhere, that is the main reason I would have concerns about paying that to anyone. One of the Flyers was asked how the Blackhawks beat them and his response was they had four lines and we had three. The Hawks are now facing the music for overpaying for a few pieces.

by Styxcanada on Jul 4, 2010 3:22 PM EDT reply actions  

The Problem with a Shorter deal

Is quite simple, If Ilya says “It’s 10 years at 10 million or I’m not signing” he has the upper hand. He quite simply doesn’t have to sign if he doesn’t like the contract.

The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!

by Mark D on Jul 4, 2010 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

he doesn’t have to sign, but I’m sure he wants to make millions of dollars next season- just a case of maximizing what he can get.(should have taken the deal from Atlanta.)

Just say NO to long term contracts.

by since70too on Jul 4, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Botta Claims-

and I think it’s just opinion, that there is no 10 for 10 deal. And he feels we can sign him with out a deal like that. Hope he is right.

Just say NO to long term contracts.

by since70too on Jul 4, 2010 6:23 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope he is right too

I would love the deal if its 9 for 6 or anything close. A 10 year deal is dangerous, but I like it over the alternative.

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

wouldn't even mind $10 mil

if its for a 5 year term. Would make more sense for him as well. Esp if he signs here, he cannot be sure how our prospects will mature and how soon we will be a Cup contender. If he agreed to a 10 year deal and the team didn’t mature as promised, he’d be impossible to trade.

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 4, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Latest news today
Los Angeles Kings general manager Dean Lombardi told the Los Angeles Times today that untrestricted free agent left wing Ilya Kovalchuk has turned down his team’s contract offer.

It looks like its just between us and the Devils

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 7:18 PM EDT reply actions  

And the Devils

Really can’t sign him for 7.5 mill. They’d use up the 10% cushion you get during the FA Period and would have to trade someone.

If the Flyers move Gagne and Carter they can do it, but it doesn’t make sense.

My prediction is that when everything shakes out, either we get Kovy at some insane price or he signs with the Devils for 5 million for 1 season.

The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!

by Mark D on Jul 4, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It depends...

if we offered 10 for 10 he’s a moron if he doesn’t take it. Now if we didn’t I think we should be able to get him for like 8-9 mil. for like 6-7 years. Then again we might be able to do 1-2 for the max. Its going to be very interesting to see how it plays out though.

by Judgegavel on Jul 4, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cap Floor Misnomers

I’ve seen a lot of stuff on this blog (comments section) about the Isles being way short of the floor and how a large Kovie signing would fix that, so to dispute:

Comeau 650,000 Tavares 3,750,000 Hunter 2,000,000

Parenteau 600,000 Bailey 1,725,000 Okposo 1,671,667

Moulson 2,000,000 (est.) Nielson 525,000 Schremp 1,500,000 (est.)

Gillies 500,000 Weight 2,500,000 (est.) Konopka 600,000

                        Streit 4,100,000 Eaton 2,500,000

                        Martinek 1,500,000 Jurcina 1,000,000
 
                        Gervais 740,833 MacDonald 550,000

                        Hillen 525,000

                                                           Roloson 2,500,000
                       
                                                           DiPietro 4,500,000

                                                           Yashin 4,755,067

Total = $40,692,567

That roster and cap hit (lines are obviously not correct) is from capgeek.com. I am not including any rookies, two way contracts such as Rechlisz, Haley or unsigned RFAs/UFAs that I don’t see coming back. A case could be made for Kohn or Reese but, they could easily be in the minors. I don’t see Bergenheim coming back or Park. I ’ve allotted money to two RFAs who I definitely see playing next year, Moulson and Schremp and I allotted money to Weight who I also see coming back. Those 3 salaries could obviously be off by a bit but, not enough to make a serious impediment to my argument.

My point is, that total is $40,692,567. The cap floor is $43M (please correct if wrong). That roster I listed can’t be far off the opening day line-up based on contract statuses. If Witt’s contract counts, that’s another $3M. If any rookie makes it you’re adding around $850K.

We’re plenty close to the cap, we don’t NEED a Kovie contract to make it. That being said, it can’t hurt. I’m just pointing out all the hyperbole about the cap floor is nonsense.

by Moneybag on Jul 4, 2010 10:07 PM EDT reply actions  

not so sure

without Gillies, Konopka, Moulson, Schremp, Weight, and Reese, the cap hit is 35,993, the bonus cushion is 4410 and the cap space is 27,817 according to NHL Numbers.

by BCISLEMAN on Jul 4, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weight 2,500,000 (est)

I guess, maybe, if that is counting all the bonuses he could but likely will not be awarded.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 5, 2010 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good points

With Friday’s signings and some ample raises, they likely will no longer be the $9 million under the floor that’s still being reported.

And as we’ve seen in the past, veteran bonuses can make up some of that (I suspect that’s why Weight’s contract is yet to be finalized). But you can see why the focus on the floor in general: Even with the full-ish roster you have above and including Yashin’s hit the Isles are short.

For the record, you should be right about the floor figure. It’s $16 million below the ceiling, so if they’re going with $59.x, then the floor would be $43.×.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 5, 2010 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was only a matter of time

Before Eklund got involved with some crazy, insane, highly improbable rumor mongering. Check out this tweet:

Some i trust are now saying the Flyers and Avalanche are in the Kovalchuk race.

Lets forget that the Flyers only have ~200K in cap space and to sign Ilya would have to move Gagne to even be in the 10% above threshold. Lets forget that the Avs while 6 Mil under still have to resign RFA’s Peter Mueller and Kevin Yip and would also have to move someone to clear cap space for Ilya. I just want to know who these “Some i trust” are from Eklund. Dude, you’ve got to find better people to trust. Your rumor success rate is horrible.

There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.

by David Hanssen on Jul 4, 2010 10:26 PM EDT reply actions  

they’d have to move Carter (which they were eternally rumored to be doing till they got Gagne to waive his no trade) to make it work. Carter + Gagne = better then 1 Kov. Hell, even if they trade Gagne, keep Carter and sign a top flight goalie they are in a better position then if they got Kov

The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!

by Mark D on Jul 4, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Someone I trust” is someone who translated the Russian articles that said this yesterday.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 5, 2010 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Does he still charge some subscriber fee for “insider” service? There are suckers born every day, and 16 years later they pay for … that.

Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.

by Dominik on Jul 5, 2010 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know all contract incentives count against the cap ceiling, but...

… do they count against the cap floor?

I appreciate Moneybag’s breakdown, which is rather extensive and shows how much the Isles have against the ceiling. However, it would seem to me that, if you state the Islanders must spend at least X on the team, then you would have to consider the least amount that each player would make for the year. Therefore, you’d be leaving out a lot of Tavares’ $3,750,000 number, as a lot of that is incentive money that he won’t get if he doesn’t hit his targets.

But I’ve been wrong about approximately 20 dozen things so far over the past few days, so I wouldn’t be surprised if I start working on my 21st here.

Warning: This post may cause Yashin Rashes, Spano Spasms, and Dingle Milburys.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Jul 4, 2010 11:42 PM EDT reply actions  

It was always my assumption that these rookie bonuses counted against the cap in any form, whether it related to the cap ceiling or the cap floor.

In that vein, I’m sure it’s a bit advantageous for the Islanders in the short term – from a financial perspective, of course – to have kids like Tavares, et al. in the lineup; most of their cap hits are tied in incentives that they aren’t likely to reach [right now, anyway]. So you’re paying them their base salaries ($800-900k, I’m guessing), but their inflated cap hits are pushing you towards [and ultimately] above the floor.

by pickups on Jul 5, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I would have thought that, too, but the CBA contract is quite mum on the issue (although I haven’t read through all of it yet and I plan to do so). And if there is no concrete rules about it, then we have to resort to the intent of the language that IS in there. Namely, the CBA does state that a team must pay a minimum amount in salaries to its players. That would suggest that, by season’s end, the team must pay base salary and incentives totaling at least that minimum amount. If not all incentives are reached, then the team is in violation of the CBA.

Hear me out on this, if you have the time…

For what it’s worth, I work in the rather narrow field of construction lawsuits (I’m not a lawyer, I’m an engineer, which is also necessary in trying to settle these claims). That being said, contract language is a main issue at my office, and if this was a construction lawsuit, that’s how I’d see it shake out in court. Now, while I’ve gotten good at reading and interpreting contracts, I’m still not a lawyer (any of you guys are, by any chance?), but I can tell you for sure that, when there’s an ambiguity in a contract, there’s always someone looking to exploit it.

Enter Don Fehr, who from what we’ve been told recently is running the NHL Players’ Association. If he wants to start putting his stamp on things, this might be an issue he’ll take up, for the sake of spreading around more money to players (players who must vote him into the title permanently at some point).

That’s what has me worried. It could be that we’re even further from the floor than we thought, although it would take some intervention from Fehr and the League to sort it out.

I’ll look through the CBA more tomorrow after I get home from a mini-vacation, but I’ll bet you everything in it is geared towards what counts and doesn’t count against the ceiling, and mum’s the word on the floor. i think that, when the contract was written, it was assumed that no team would ever be near the floor, partly because the Blackhawks at the time (with their prior late owner) were even above what the floor was set at, and if they were going to be above the floor, then everyone for all of time would be too. Oops.

Good night.

Warning: This post may cause Yashin Rashes, Spano Spasms, and Dingle Milburys.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Jul 5, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

ESPN is reporting the Kings out.

If the Kings are out then we might be able to get this done cheaper than $10 mil/year. If we can get this done around $8mil/year I’m in.

by Anarcurt on Jul 5, 2010 12:44 AM EDT reply actions  

I think the big thing is

if you want to see the Islanders stay on Long Island, it may be the key to getting the project passed. I live out side of NY, and have for 14 years, so it really isn’t that big a deal to me. I love them on the Island but hey I have rooted from long distance for the last 14 years and who knows if they move I may be closer

by Rickfansince76 on Jul 5, 2010 7:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

A New York Islanders blog for fans near and far. Hip and shoulder surgery not required.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
No toughness
Kevinwriterpic_small
2012 NHL Draft Prospect Profile: Matt Dumba
Small
Reeser Out 2-3 Weeks, Who's next?
One_smith03_small
Nielsen and Tavares Happily Drink the Kool-Aid! So What's Our Problem with UFA's?
Small
Would Milbury have drafted Tavares?
Kevinwriterpic_small
2012 NHL Draft Prospect Profile: Nail Yakupov
Capt
10 Game Chunk #5: Playing Like a Playoff-Bound Team Would
Icon3_small
January 2012 Power Rankings: A Playoff-Level Month?
Small
WHY IS EATON PLAYING WHILE REESE SITS?
Gigantor15_small
JP's January Plus/Minus Poll

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Featured Poll

Poll
Garth Snow screwed this one up because he should have:

  220 votes | Results

Isles Reading

Atlantic Standings

GP W L OTL PT
New York Rangers 52 34 13 5 73
Philadelphia 54 31 16 7 69
New Jersey 54 31 19 4 66
Pittsburgh 54 30 19 5 65
New York Islanders 53 22 23 8 52

(updated 2.11.2012 at 8:02 AM EST)

New York Islanders Roster

# Pos. DOB W H
Josh Bailey 12 LW 10/2/1989 190 6-1
Rick DiPietro 39 G 9/19/1981 190 6-1
Mark Eaton 4 D 5/6/1977 215 6-1
Michael Grabner 40 RW 10/5/1987 185 6-0
Travis Hamonic 3 D 8/16/1990 203 6-2
Milan Jurcina 27 D 6/7/1983 253 6-4
Andrew MacDonald 47 D 9/7/1986 196 6-1
Matt Martin 17 LW 3/8/1989 210 6-3
Al Montoya 35 G 2/13/1985 203 6-2
Mike Mottau 10 D 3/19/1978 190 6-0
Matt Moulson 26 LW 11/1/1983 205 6-1
Evgeni Nabokov 20 G 7/25/1975 200 6-0
Aaron Ness 55 D 5/18/1990 170 5-10
Nino Niederreiter 25 RW 9/8/1992 205 6-2
Frans Nielsen 51 C 4/24/1984 184 6-0
Kyle Okposo 21 RW 4/16/1988 205 6-0
Jay Pandolfo 29 LW 12/27/1974 190 6-1
P.A. Parenteau 15 LW 3/24/1983 193 6-0
Rhett Rakhshani 49 RW 3/6/1988 190 5-10
Marty Reasoner 16 C 2/26/1977 205 6-1
Dylan Reese 42 D 8/29/1984 201 6-1
Brian Rolston 11 LW 2/21/1973 215 6-2
Steve Staios 24 D 7/28/1973 200 6-1
Mark Streit 2 D 12/11/1977 197 6-0
John Tavares 91 C 9/20/1990 202 6-0
Tim Wallace 36 RW 8/6/1984 207 6-1
Calvin de Haan 44 D 5/9/1991 187 6-1

Blog Bossy

Lhh-square_small Dominik

Enforcers & Snipers

Warlord2_small Mark D

Lighthouse_hockey_logo_2_medium_small Keith Quinn

Tubby_goalie_gif_small mikb

Hg_small Chris McNally

Master of FIGs and Power Tablature

Icon3_small ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles

Emeriti

Officials_sweater_1_small IslesOfficial

Headshot_small Michael Schuerlein

71096_479208120482_1257968_n_small David Hanssen