Say it ain't so, Sean: Islanders qualifying offers omit Bergenheim
by Dominik on Jun 28, 2010 5:00 PM EDT
in Roster Manoeuvres in the Dark
103 comments
The New York Islanders have tendered qualifying offers to Matt Moulson, Rob Schremp, Dustin Kohn, Dylan Reese and Nathan Lawson.
Qualifying offers are tendered to players who are no longer on their entry-level deals but do not qualify as un-restricted free agents, making them restricted free agents. Teams must extend qualifying offers to restricted free agents to retain their negotiating rights and have the right of first refusal.
Notably absent* from the above list is Sean Bergenheim, one of the last remaining Milbury-era picks. Unless there's some misunderstanding -- highly unlikely, given Dale Tallon's employment in Florida -- or kiss-and-make-up in July, that means the Islanders are letting Bergy walk for nothing. Considering his qualifying offer wouldn't be much (in the ballpark of $1 million) and Bergenheim is at minimum a useful energy winger, that is not the kind of asset management I like to see.
*Other obvious names not on that qualifying list: Jeff Tambellini, acquitted Bobby Hughes. Also: Sean Bentivoglio.
But then again, dating back to the contentious failure to sign by training camp that led to the Wang-enforced year in exile, it's always been a rocky union between the Isles and Bergenheim. If he wants to stay in the NHL, I expect him to find a home.
As discussed in his report card here, this "Finn of mystery" was still effective 5-on-5 and one of the Islanders' few physical presences. His scoring counting numbers never matched up to his first-round billing (22nd overall, 2002), but as we detailed in that report, he never had consistent linemates this past season. And while he was once known for taking poor penalties at poor times, last season he was among the team leaders in drawing more penalties than he took (+10).
There's a lot to like about Bergenheim's game, but after eight seasons of pro hockey on either side of the Atlantic, it's also fair to wonder if he'd ever fully put it together beyond a checking line/PK role that, as others have already commented below, should be replaceable. Perhaps in the case of Bergenheim, the Islanders long-term handling of him was about as cohesive as his on-ice decision-making: Mixed, with missed opportunities all around.
* * *
The qualified: Those whose rights are retained aren't surprising. Garth Snow recently spoke well of Lawson's ability to fill in at the NHL level "in a pinch," while Reese impressed in his brief quarter with the big club at the end of the seasons. Kohn likewise is just showing what he can do -- still up in the air, but you don't give up now -- and Moulson and Rob Schremp Hockey were of course no-brainers.
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Bergenheim is more likely to be dealt
Dealing him to a team means they have to spend less to sign him. If the Isles wanted to low ball him he ain’t getting much through arbitration. Even Bergenheim knows this.
Overall, he’s a good player but not a great player. He’s too limited to really make a difference on a team like the Islanders. As I mentioned in another post about our lack of top line depth, Bergenheim’s limitations tend to get exposed when shuffeling him through lines and with different linemates.
I could see him fitting in Detroit or Colorado where he’d be secure on the third line and have a nice career. Bergenheim is really more of journeyman suited to those roles. I wouldn’t pin him as a building block.
RFAs Explained
Hey guys, just to make life easier I saw this over at Nucks Misconduct (I swear, I go to other SBN Hockey sites) and thought it might be useful for anyone looking at this article.
1. Teams must offer all pending RFAs a qualifying offer- which is their previous salary +10% (or more), or else those players become UFAs.
2. If a player signs the qualifying offer, well then that’s their contract.
3. Once ‘qualified’, a player is now an RFA if they don’t sign that offer (although I believe the offer remains open, and if the team withdraws it, the player becomes a UFA).
4. The qualifying offer is really just a placeholder while negotiations go on if the player is a good player (if the player is overpriced at their old contract, they usually won’t get qualified).
5. However, while an RFA, any team can now offer that player any contract they want.
6. If the RFA accepts a contract from another team, his original team then has the option to match.
7. If the original team does not match, then the player now belongs to the team that signed him, but in return the original team receives compensation in the form of draft picks the next year. The amount and quality of draft picks is determined by how large the salary cap hit for the player will be. See here for the compensation scale.
8. Complicating this further is that many RFAs have arbitration rights, meaning that if they don’t sign the qualifying offer, they can then request that a neutral arbitrator set their salary, for which a hearing will be held, and the team and the player will state their case for what they think the salary should be and why. The arbitration decision is final. If the team does not accept, then the player becomes a UFA. The player must accept if he wants to play in the NHL.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
I’ve posted before that Bergie has the raw skills (he’s got speed, great one-one skills, a killer shot and good defensive awareness) to one day put it all together. I don’t think its crazy (although most disagreed with me when I said this the first time) to think he could one day be a 25 goal scorer. I just dont see it with the Isles. I think a fresh start would do him a lot of good.
The Islanders probably figure that he’s already reached his top potential, and probably feel that Martin or another Winger deserves his IT to prove what he can do.
I wouldn’t put it beyond Snow trying to trade him at some point over the weekend and just not getting any interest. He might be willing to hedge his bets that if he thinks he needs Bergie back that he’ll be there later during FA.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
I would rather see someone like Martin get a shot filling Bergie’s role. What kind of return would we get on Bergenheim? Mid round draft pick?
If the Islanders could have gotten a midround draft pick for him, they already would have.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jun 28, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t put it beyond Snow trying to trade him at some point over the weekend and just not getting any interest.
That does throw that whole draft weekend possibility into question, doesn’t it? Surely if Snow was trying to make moves, he’d have let people know Bergenheim was in play, so I guess there was no interest. Or at least not from the right fit (Chicag couldn’t afford to take on salary this week, given their cap pinch.)
Then again, any trade partner could read that as a sign he wasn’t being qualified, so they could sign him for free at a theoretically lower rate than his Q.O.
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Whenn Weight re-signed I felt it may not leave a roster space for a player that is on the bubble development wise and now it seems like Bergenheim was that player. For a team with such a low pay scale I don’t understand how he wasn’t helpful or how his salary could make a difference since there is a floor still to be reached.
The only thing I can imagine is that the number of roster spots with one way contracts or the total number of pro contracts came into play. His one year hiatus really hurt him, but that was a two way mistake by both the Isles management and his agent. Is it the end of the world? Not at all, but he seemed like he should have developed into a third line asset.
Weight and Bergie have absolutly nothing to do with each other, besides that they were both Islanders.
Its Joensuu and Martin and kids like that who are making Bergie redundant… not Weight.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jun 28, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Although their positions and attributes are different it becomes a numbers game. The Islanders can only afford to hang onto so many forwards. The fact that they had to qualify the likes of Kohn and Reese on defense just shows how much lack of depth the team has on D and they need as many as they can find hoping one can play five minutes a night.
The Islanders are also trying to get by with the lowest payroll possible so every penny counts and a penny paid to Weight has to be pinched somewhere else. Weight isn’t pushing anyone for playing time, but he is taking up a roster spot whether he plays or not. Look at the difficulty they had just last year juggling players when injuries hit and not wanting to put Tambellini of all people on waivers.
The biggest rap against Bergenheim is that he was a first round pick and he hasn’t lived up top the position Milbury drafted him. He’s a third liner that the Islanders have been developing for years and now they can start the process all over with Joensuu and Martin. Unless the money saved is used on a Free Agent signing I don’t see how this helps the franchise.
Weight isn't going to push anyone for a roster spot...
he will play 30 games max, so if anything it guarantees a spot for a BP call up every other game.
If Bergie leaves
Are the Isles banking on Nino or JJ playing on a 3rd line wing
…or Weight even, like 1919 mentioned. Could throw Martin into that mix and, dare we think it, a free agent?
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With the departure of Bergy
I think that the signing of a decent quality FA forward becomes even more essential. O am with Judge. Nino might see some third line TOI, but his future is likely as an anchor to the second line along with Comeau with either Bailey or Schremp as C. This team needs a potent second line to compliment the Moulson Golden line.
There's no point in keeping Nino as a third liner.
If he’s not going to get the minutes and development as a top six, keep him in the WHL, where he will develop as a star and a centrpiece on a contending team.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Jun 29, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m excited to see him, but I really hope they don’t rush him into it. He will probably make a compelling case, but he’s still so young and even new to North America; they have to resist the temptation.
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not necessarily
i think if he makes a compelling case, he should have a shot. They should resist the temptation to keep him on the roster if he hasn’t established that he is ready for the NHL.
Given his age and experience, I’d still vote for prudence. A year shouldn’t hold him back, and it would give us better value on his contract. Putting him in the top-six mix is a lot of kids having to grow up all at once.
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I don’t care how good he could look at camp or the first ten games, leave Nino in Juniors. He was barely draft eligble this year and it lets the Isles space out the contracts a little bit further. A year of watching the NHL helps less than a year of playing in all situations and being the go to guy as his body matures.
I’m still uncertain that bringing Bailey in when they did didn’t hinder his development (maybe it helped, but I doubt it). That’s why it makes me cringe when people compare games played by Filatov and Bailey as a justification for taking Bailey in the draft (this is not an attempt to say that the Isles weren’t right in taking Bailey). How players are developed is just as important as where a player ranks in his draft class.
disagree
I think Garth made a mistake by forcing Bailey in before he was ready. If Nino, on the other hand proves he is ready in preseason and the first few regular season contests, it would be a mistake to send him down.
I just don’t think ten games will be an accurate indicator of how an 18 year old will handle the rigors of the NHL in only his second year in North America. I prefer to bring prospects up when you have the option of sending them to the AHL if they need playing time or a boost in confidence.
ten games plus preseason
I think they will be looking at him this summer as well. He deserves a shot at making the team is all I am saying.
If he's ready there is no reason for him to go back...
Aside from BC it seams like all of you insist he needs to go back, yet you’ve probably never seen him play yet. I’ll admit I’ve only seen Nino in highlights, and in one and a half games at the WJC, so I’m not claiming to be an expert. However, every thing I’ve read on him so far says he’s ready now, obviously he has to prove that, but I cant see holding him back simply because you have a problem with his age. A ton of players have come into the league at 18 and been very successful, if he can prove he should be here, by all means he should be here. Every players development is different.
y sorry?
if you play 'words with friends' on the ipod/iphone, my name is BLEWAN, search me out with a "go isles" and it's GAME ON!
Strictly philsophical view from what we know now
So I’ve weighed in a few times and don’t mean to repeat myself, but I’ll just clarify a little bit: Of course if Nino is lights out and an ubermensch in camp, by all means keep him. I have not seen him much, don’t know what his body profile really looks like right now, and can’t possibly project how his summer workouts will go. I do trust BenHasna’s view at the WC’s that said he looked like he needs time before playing with men.
Regardless, given that he’s even young for his draft year, new to this continent, rose like a meteor, and was not in that top 2-3 group each year where scouts league-wide say the kid is ready now, I would definitely err on the side of caution. I don’t want to force him and watch him burn out in December when he could be getting valuable reps in the WHL. And there is the argument that long-term and budget-wise, it’s better to burn his entry-level years on more productive years than the very difficult age 18 NHL season.
But he sounds like a special kid. Maybe he’ll be one of those exceptions who just flies through every obstacle.
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he may be an exception in that
he has a singular determination to do what he needs to to get where he wants to.
Plus the Isles have the added factor of Streit...
Which in this case I think makes a huge difference. Streit being from the same country, one that is very nationalistic, and close knit group, is an instant positive for Nino. I think the age factor doesn’t really come into play at all because of this, he actually may be better off in the NHL in that regards. Nino would be getting mentored by a mature fellow countryman who is a great example of how to be an NHL player and can speak his native language. Which to me is better than whooping it up with a bunch of 17-19 year olds who have a far better mastery of the language than you.
As you might expect, I don't really agree
You’re right in a way, when you say the Swiss are kind of nationalistic and a close-knit group, which doesn’t need to be bad in general of course. But as I tried to describe in the other thread, that’s not what prepares you best to succeed in the most competitive environment. It’s a different mentality you need to become a superstar or actually even to just tap the full potential. I know Swiss sports pretty well and believe me, the most successful Swiss athletes are very far from typical Swiss. Just look at Federer, who’s as global as anyone and very much for that reason is not nearly as popular in Switzerland as you would expect given his success. Actually, over the last six years, he’s been voted World Sportsman of the year four times, but Swiss Sportsman only two times, with a cyclist (Cancellara), a motor cyclist (Lüthi) and a skiier (Cuche) coming out ahead the other times. That’s as parochial as it gets.
So, every Swiss athlete and especially every Swiss hockey player with a chance to play in the NHL should first and foremost get away from that Swiss mentality. That’s what Nino has been doing pretty well so far. He was fully right to go over early and has adapted very well in this first year. Obviously, Streit wouldn’t be bad company, as he realized all this a long time ago and would surely in no way influence Nino negatively. And Nino could also continue this transition by playing in the NHL already, but let’s not ask too much of him. Streit himself, a mentally very strong person, needed two attempts in North America to sort out everything. Nino has had it a bit easier and is looking good indeed, but it isn’t all that straight forward for a 17-year old and there’s still situations he hasn’t faced as much as others. He’s never felt pressure, he’s never had to confirm a good season with the same club or a good JWC, etc. I’m sure Nino has what it takes to handle that, but let’s actually let him make these experiences indeed.
I’d love to see Nino playing for the Islanders as much as anbody, but regarding the development off ice, I’d sure hope he’ll spend another year in Portland. I can’t tell as sure for when it comes to his playing, but right now and from what I’ve seen, I’d be surprised if he was ready and good enough to play for the Isles (in a top-6 role) as soon as this October.
3 Reasons... and I'll drop it after that...
ONE (because I refuse to fall victim to the SB counting demon): If he plays more than 9 games his entry level contract kicks in and there is a bigger benefit for the Islanders at having an extra year when he’s 25, than when he’s 18.
TWO No matter how good he looked, and how ready everybody says he is, if he’s not… VAST WASTELAND. He’s 18, so you can’t send him anywhere FOR 2 YEARS. It was hardly noticible for Bailey because there wasn’t anybody really pushing him… but at LW this year, there should be some competition (see reason’s why Bergy is gone).
THREE… $10M+ in money to spend to make it to the cap floor. They have an opportunity to see if a Tanguay (like last year) can help this team WHILE PROSPECTS develop in an environment that is more condusive to developing prospects.
They’re in a very good place… and they should have a few call-ups and leaps forward on the team…. plus you get NINE FROM NINO when the season ends… hopefully for the playoff push.
All that being said… I fully expect Snow to give him the front end Nine and give him every opportunity to make the club.
But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?
plus you get NINE FROM NINO when the season ends… hopefully for the playoff push.
yea i said that earlier, you gotta think the dream secenario is that they go make a p/o push, call him up for the final 9 and he plays in the playoffs with them…
Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango ?
-sorry, that pic just screams Boh/Rhap to me
the isles announcing they wanted bailey to go to the bridge for their playoff run, for experience, makes me think they will be cautious, but then again, he’s had a playoff run in junior and a historic run in the wjc’s so you can argue that may be enough experience and set him off and running… i do think it’s prudent to save a year if you can, but not if he looks like he belongs, that would be counterproductive
if you play 'words with friends' on the ipod/iphone, my name is BLEWAN, search me out with a "go isles" and it's GAME ON!
what’s a good estimate on TOI for a rookie to get to develop at the nhl level, he’ll be on the ice all the time in portland, we know that, but being on the ice all the time help tavares to a monster drought mid-season, so you can justify both ways i guess,
developmentally and ideally, i think management hopes to tell him " win a WHL championship, and we’ll see u for the last 9 games to help in our playoff push "
if you play 'words with friends' on the ipod/iphone, my name is BLEWAN, search me out with a "go isles" and it's GAME ON!
Not the poor cousin anymore
Its hard to get used to, but we now have enough talent we don’t need to hang onto every marginal asset we have. It’s time to start upgrading and making room for prospects to develope. Hard to get used to not being a “have not”.
Wanted BIG skilled wingers - Check
I’m somewhat disappointed that Bergenheim was not given a qualifying offer. He would’ve been useful for a bargaining chip in a future trade. That being said, I wish him well, preferably on a Western Conference team where the Isles don’t have to see much of him. However, his skill set is replaceable for the Isles, so perhaps Bergenheim was just the odd man out.
I do see Tambellini getting a couple looks from around the league as well. Somehow I see Tamby being invited to Edmonton if all else fails, since it helps when your father is the GM.
Bobby Hughes may go to Europe or anywhere that keeps him far far away from Albany. Somehow, I think his pro hockey days may be over.
He would’ve been useful for a bargaining chip in a future trade.
Id bet money he already has been.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jun 28, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Good riddance
to Bergenheim. Him being off the team means that we’re actually going to demand more than minimal production out of our top-9 forwards. We can and will do better.
Fiya Minaya.
How is 10-15 goals bad for a third line winger who’s primary role is as a defensive forward? What would you consider a realistic benchmark for third line wingers? This isn’t 1994 when teams where scoring 400 goals and fourth line goons were knocking in 20. I think if you can get 10 goals from the the wingers on your checking line that’s not bad and is about on par for most teams in the league.
Leave it to the Islanders to ruin a perfect day...
Nothing in sports could have possibly ruined my day more….
I knew, and have been saying it all day, that somebody would have to be moved. But I am definitely not as happy as I was this morning…..
At least they didn’t completely turn me off for the whole summer by qualifying Thumbellini and not Bergy… that would have been the knee to the groin I’ve come to expect after an awesome draft weekend…
All the stuff I posted about Snow 4 hours ago… Garth Snow, YOU SUCK A FAT ONE right now!
…now back to your regularly scheduled Bergy can be replace BS…
But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?
After watching 82 games this year, I can honestly say the two players that pissed me off more than any others were both not qualified today. I like Bergie, but I never felt this attachment to him as so many of you have. He is so unbelievably average most of the time- and the rest of the time he is an extremely frustrating and ultimately replacable player.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jun 28, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Frustrating, yes
I think the draw for him is that he has a motor, one that goes. Honestly, some of the same attributes that endears people to Okposo, though with less offensive skill and more willingness to hit.
As is so often the case with a guy like him, you see the flashes of talent and think “What if?” He’s displayed true offensive skill before (Counterargument: So have half of all NHL forwards), so you combine it with his willingness to engage physically and you start to picture something more. Add to it that I can’t remember the last time he had significant minutes in a purely offensive role and yeah, I wonder what could have been, even 8 years after he’s gone.
Beyond that though, I can’t say the club doesn’t have an argument to move on with him. He has some Fedotenko in him (a guy who’s game I also enjoyed, when he engaged).
Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.
Almost where I'm at..
I’ve used the word “engaged” with Bergy a lot. It’s almost like Bergy is the PHYSICAL twin to Blake’s speed. When used properly Blake’s “stone hands” scored 40 goals. Bergy made more ops from the 4th line this year than anybody in the league… and had decent production from there… especially considering he was the ONLY physical forward all year. I say that because i don’t think Hunter could break a water balloon with his checks.
I’m over it though. I’m an Islander fan, and I will root for Bergie to pick up with a western conference team like COlorado so I can root for him to suceed.
Much like Blake, I think his biggest issue was the change in coach… Comeau will be next.
Okay.. now they’ve made the spot in the parking lot for Martin… it’s his to lose as far as I can see… and I’m good with that… but I don’t see him filling Bergy’s role… that’s where Bailey may have to step up. YES…UP!
But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?
Draft weekend buzz kill
To not even make a qualifying offer for Bergy hurts…How can this team not have room for a player who skates his butt off, hits hard and plays responsible hockey? I understand the need to upgrade as we rebuild but this seems like a misguided move. I hope he doesn’t become another Moulson to some other team (especially a team in the East) that actually gives him a real chance to perform.
…a player who skates his butt off, hits hard and plays responsible hockey…
Ah the myth of Bergie.
The same people who cry for a team with higher standards want to keep a nice kid just because he tries hard and they like them. How about we keep nice kids who try hard AND accomplish more? I guarantee you will like them, too.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jun 28, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
To make an omelet you must crack a couple of eggs. Sure he was passionate but he also had Sim disease in that his hands were almost made of steel. He had the ability to punch through some teams but overall he is likely to be one of many Islanders that will not remain on the team over this rebuilding process. As long as you keep him on the team you resign yourself to mediocrity. Without knowing who Garth is bringing in or targeting it is hard to gauge this move or lack thereof properly.
Garth has been pretty wise so far. Why not wait and see what he brings in?
Islander season begins today. Here's to a stronger December. Now go get Gudbranson, Snow, and give me my free tickets.
by metalcoconut on Jun 29, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure he was passionate but he also had Sim disease in that his hands were almost made of steel.
True. Further, he had Sim’s inflated view of his own abilities. Of course in Bergy’s case, I actually saw evidence of those hands.
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I disagree. I think Bergie has all the ability to score goals. That just wasn’t the role he was used for.
I’d have liked to see him get more of a top-line opportunity to find out for sure, but I started to come around to the belief he just doesn’t finish his opps consistently enough. Sure he has hands, but they weren’t always there, and even when they were there they’d sometimes get him to the net … where he wouldn’t know what to do.
This is the frustrating dilemma with him, though: What is his real ability? I think it’s as a checker with a little bit of offensive punch, but he and the team seemed to never be on the same page about his best role.
Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.
I believe the team needs higher standards, but I’m also realistic. If Bergenheim is gone, who replaces him? I don’t see much in terms of the UFA market and you always overpay to bring someone in than to keep what you’ve got. So rather than say I’m disappointed with Bergenheim leaving, I’ll say the jury is out until I see who is brought in to replace him. Ideally I would have qualified him and if he has arbitration rights you can always walk away then.
I just don’t think that change isn’t synonomous with progress. I think Bergenheim was an effective third line winger that can score 10 goals and went through the pains of learning Gordon’s system. It’s not like he was Andy Hilbert. I think lot of people are putting a lot of stock in the hopes that Joensuu and Martin produce at a clip better than Bergenheim just because they haven’t been exposed to their flaws for a couple of seasons. I hope I’m wrong and they at least bring size, but if they can’t skate it won’t mean much.
I think lot of people are putting a lot of stock in the hopes that Joensuu and Martin produce at a clip better than Bergenheim just because they haven’t been exposed to their flaws for a couple of seasons.
I’ve got that fear, too. And realistically, a small raise over his minimum Q.O. would put him at about 500k more than what those guys’ NHL salaries will be.
Lighthouse Hockey: Now accepting applications for 2015.
"MYTH?"
You know I agree with most of your Islander thoughts, but I respectfully disagree there. I’d take that “MYTH” over the accomplishments of… hmmm… WHO THE F*** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
We don’t have a series of LW’s with 30 goal potential. We might have one, in Bailey, who may be the fourth line center.
The more I look at it, the more I’m okay with the move… but until somebody fills the role that Bergy did, we have a HOLE.
Same as Sutton… until they get a defensive defenseman who can actually play a pressure forecheck system, engage once in a while, and be a FORCE… we have a hole.
Accomplish more? 10g… from a fourth line PK role… that doesn’t suck. I forgot, we had three really productive LW’s in front of him…
Jon Sim…13 goals from a defensive third line chirping role.
Jeff tambellini… 7 goals in a varied role, in 36 games, but contributed little else.
Matt Moulson… 30 goals playing mostly first line minutes (oddly off PP even after showing production… at times)… no argument that he earned his contract, but he doesn’t kill penalties, and the picked up more Marriot checks, than physical ones
Who else… Bailey… Definitely can step up to the second LW if they don’t go the FA route… but he doesn’t have Bergie’s motor, and he hasn’t shown he can be a solid/responsible PK person.
Weight? Come on… if Dougie plays 30 games this year I’d be surprised.
Martin? We’ll see… I like him as a 3rd line LW, and should give us more than 10g… and bring physicality… but he hasn’t done it yet. His door is now open, and I’ll be rooting for him.
Joensuu? Who knows.
Nino… that would be great, but I hope they give him another year in juniors…
Bergy, if anything, would have helped this year. Not a big loss in the grand scheme of things, but don’t discount his efforts because he put in 10 goals… that kid played hard from the back of the class.
But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?
The myth is that he played hard every night. Sorry JP, but he didnt. He played hard sometimes. Other times he was just hard to watch.
I knew this day would come. And I knew Isles fans who loved him would be remembering the good times. I on the other hand am remembering how many times I cursed him out on my television.
It was a lot.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jun 29, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hmmm...
Maybe you have anger issues.
I’ve watched the same different things as other people before… I can live with that.
(I was going to prefix this with, “Chris, you ignorant slut”… but was fearful you wouldn’t get the reference…
But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?
Well, I didnt scream at him as much as Tambellini, Ill give him that much. I even screamed at Tambs when he DID score because it would be like “Why the F cant you do this more often?”
Totally got the reference, BTW. And I think we would do a great job with the Weekend Hockey Update.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jun 29, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
JP and TMC on the Weekend Hockey Update
I’d love to see it! This whole exchange had me in stitches.
Stuff like, “[name], you ignorant slut” should be shorthand around here for “I disagree with you but dammit if I don’t love the debate.” Though that’s probably a slippery slope that would give the young pups the wrong idea. Hmmm…if every kid does his classic SNL homework, we’re good.
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While I am disappointed, I am hardly surprised they’re letting Bergie go. Same with Tambellini. The Hughes non-tender was just a formality at this point though. Even though he was acquitted, the sexual assault thing made him toxic.
There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.
mixed feelings
while his overall production was underwhelming,i fear seeing him go to detroit or chicago and put up 60 pts. remember , last year he became a valuable penalty killer, he hustles more than any other islander(with the possible exception if KO) and actually threw his body around. negatives; i think he is really a Below average finisher and does not seem to have chemistry with Any linemates. offensively he seems a bit one dimensional ,the breakaway. does handle the puck well ,though. ill miss him
by Lakewood Islander on Jun 28, 2010 8:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Im not confident either of them will get anothr NHL deal. They might, but Im not confident on it.
Actually I think Tambs might get offered an AHL contract and Bergie might go to Europe. If Tambs doesnt want to be an AHL star he might go to Europe, too.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
25 year old, former first rounder, I’d be surprised if no one took Bergie. He’s been consistent at about the 20 point level and his last 3 seasons he’s been -3, -2 and +1. If he’s willing to take close to the league min there will be suitors for him.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
This many years later, I really think the fact that he was drafted in the 1st round matters only to the fans of the team that drafted him in the 1st place. If some other team is making their judgement of him nearly a decade later based on that, then they are not doing their jobs properly.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jun 28, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t mind seeing Bergie go, it’s really not surprising. But I think if Ben Eager and Daniel Paille can keep being bounced around the league (and they are only a few picks apart from Bergie and roughly same offensive stats), I would be really surprised if Bergie went unsigned.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
Bergie will get a shot because of his skating ability and ability to play in his own zone and forecheck. He’s a good third-line player which is where he belongs. Players like this are good players for a system team that needs a player to fill a role. The Islanders might not have enough overall talent yet to fill those “talent” roles, but other teams will. Tambi on the other hand, might have more of a problem. He’s the classic AAAA guy sadly. He’d be a great Keith Aucoin player who can put the goals in the net. Without an express need, Tambellini might have a hard time making an NHL roster due to his inabilities in the defensive zone. I still wish to see both back in the NHL going forth.
I cannot wait for Rakh-tober.
Q.O.
I think the required price tag was the hook here. his required raise on the qualifing offer made his contract more than his market value- on the open market as an F.A. he will get near the league min. Garth would probable pay him that.
Wanted BIG skilled wingers - Check
Another NHL deal
Depends on Bergenheim’s desire and asking price, I guess, but that’s why I’m surprised his rights weren’t traded or retained even for the ol’ “conditional pick.” Unless he’s already signaled unreasonable salary demands, he’s a league-average utility forward available at a below-league-average salary.
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Unless the Islanders/Snow wanted him gone and thought if they tendered him for his current salary +10% he would have signed the tender.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
I swear I do sleep, I just woke up with an upset stomach and decided to check LHH while I was up.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
LHH: The Cure for Upset Stomachs*
*Claim not evaluated by the FDA. Discontinue use if fan confidence remains firm for more than four hours.
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In Other Finns Formerly Drafted by the Islanders in the 1st round
Looks like Coyotes waived Petteri Nokelainen with the intention of buying out the final year of his contract. Odd move considering he’s only 24 and had a cap hit under 1 Mil.
There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.
I love Trade Trees…
We pick Nokelainen in the 1st round, trade him for Ben Walter and a conditional pick (Which we recieved in 2009 and traded for a 3rd rounder in 2010 which became Jason Clark) We then trade Walter with a contional pick for Tony Romano.
The Swiss are Coming, The Swiss are Coming!
It gets better…
Nokkie was then traded by Boston to Anaheim for Steve Montador, who left Boston for Buffalo as a free agent.
Nokkie was again traded to Phoenix for a 6th round pick, which turned into a 6th in 2011 because Phoenix’s 6th this year wound up going to Vancouver as the conditional pick in the Matthieu Schneider trade.
And now he’s getting released.
There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.
by David Hanssen on Jun 28, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m still stunned to hear it’s Phoenix releasing him. I completely forgot he went there. I followed the Nokie tree for several stops, but apparently I got distracted after Columbus.
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Odd move considering he’s only 24 and had a cap hit under 1 Mil.
If I re-call correctly in the CBA allows a buyout a 1/3 the cap hit if under 25. If so this would be a one year investment of about 320K. Importantly, Nokelainen was on a one-way deal, so if you could sign a guy for near the league minimum that could do a better job/be shuttled to the farm team it would be better value.
Good point, that’s right the buyout is that much cheaper at that age.
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Me too, with the caveat that Boston, Anaheim, and Phoenix (anyone else?) have now dumped him. Hard to get a read on whether he still has it or whether his knee is limiting him again. But when Anaheim got him, I saw him as a great Pahlsson-lite.
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hey, at the very least, two 5’10" guys are likely to be replaced by two 6’2" or bigger guys(MM/Nino)…maybe even the 6’4" guy (JJ) if Gillies is a mainstay on the 4th line now, and we sign a big D-man (kubina or tallinder are my guesses- not nec my wants) then we just got 20% bigger (not even ExtenZe can beat that!)
if you play 'words with friends' on the ipod/iphone, my name is BLEWAN, search me out with a "go isles" and it's GAME ON!
LONG way to go..
for a laugh… god one though…
But in terms of the roster, you turned over a roster that seemed to be able to SKATE with other NHL teams and execute the forecheck pretty well… to a slower, less effective plodding team… well.. on the left side anyway.
We needed size, no doubt… but size without skating ability gets us the Nolan Roster all over again.
I think Snow just made this a harder “transition” year… and that’s fine… but let’s see where he spends the $10+ million on 7/1. I have confidence he has a plan… but we’ll see.
But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?
I think Snow just made this a harder "transition" year… and that’s fine… but let’s see where he spends the $10+ million on 7/1. I have confidence he has a plan… but we’ll see.
Heh, that’s where he just made the next week or so very interesting. I obviously would’ve held on to Bergie’s rights, but letting him go does pique my interest and get me hoping Snow has an upgrade in mind.
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Bergenheim
Like his toughness. Like his elite skating ability. But, I think most islander fans agree, we expect more scoring from a top six foward. While Moulson and Schremp may never be truly elite, they have proven that they can put the puck in the net. Plus, with the emergence of a few of the younger prospects, they need the room on the roster to come in a compete. I say, thanks for the memories Bergy, but, don’t let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.
Snowy Island
When Snow was granted autonomy, the way things are now had to be in the back of his mind. There was barely even an interview process for coach… so there were steps in place to make this Snow’s team the second Wang dissolved the “Committee”.
Blake was definitely overpaid in July… but the decision for the Islanders not to sign him was made in December when his agent wanted to negotiate an extension… before he became the leagues newest 40 goal guy.
The exile that year was met with a series of short term contracts. In hindsight, because as soon as he could get rid of Nolan there would be a full push to make this Snowy Island.
Well… here we are. Three years on Snowy Island. It’s not bad. There’s a nice view. We can see the beaches, but they’re not open yet. The airport (FREE AGENCY) is closed to commercial traffic, but private planes can land with the Owners permission. The best way, though, to Snowy Island is by boat(draft). It may be slow, but it’s SAFE.
For three years General Snow has ex-isled political prisoners as soon as he could. Soon the Island will be completely devoid of any evidence that a previous regime existed… well… except for the PRINCE.
But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?
The more this sits in my brain the more it just reeks of bad assett management.
It’s disturbs me even more. I still stand with what I wrote above about Bergie as a very limited player. But I want the cliche’ here!!!!!
“Who knew what and when did they know it?”
When was it decided that bergenheim was not going to get an offer? Surely Garth must have had an idea around the trade deadline. Someone must have been thinking it. Trading Bergie at the deadline would not have sat well with the fans but it would have at least brought back another third or second round pick. That would have probably moved us up higher than the 30th pick we aquired at the draft.
Bad assett management all around. This is one of Snow’s weak points. Really good at picking out gems in the draft and free agency. Absolutely terrible retaining a players value in the form of return in a deal when they are due to walk.
Trading Bergie at the deadline would not have sat well with the fans but it would have at least brought back another third or second round pick.
I would have held his rights here to hold out for a trade (or for waiting until an upgrade was signed and delivered in UFA), but no way he fetches a 2nd or a 3rd at the deadline (Remember Sutton was an actual sought piece and only fetched a late 2nd). He was supposedly on the market at the deadline. So if Snow’s letting him walk, I’m thinking there were no serious offers, neither at the deadline nor this past weekend. In terms of asset management, I’d still rather swap him even for a 5th or 6th or something. But maybe other teams bet they can get him for even cheaper through UFA.
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In terms of asset management, I’d still rather swap him even for a 5th or 6th or something
i think i disagree, we could have done that with Biron, even for Rollie, and set ourselves up for another FA goalie signing, but he refused to be forced to take an underwhelming deal, and i am actually in favor of that, at least in terms of showing he’s not going to be another GM’s bitch
if you play 'words with friends' on the ipod/iphone, my name is BLEWAN, search me out with a "go isles" and it's GAME ON!
I think I’m down with that. But Bergie isn’t exactly a prime asset, so I don’t know if it would send the same signal. Biron, any team wanting Biron really needed a veteran goalie. Bergie, a team wanting him would be like, “sure, we’ll take a role player to pad the playoff push.”
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In the Roloson situation I’m in total agreement not to firesale an asset, but Roloson still had and still has value to the Islanders. Bergenheim, apparently not so much. I’m left scratching my head because it seemed the Isles were so dead set against waiving players to make room last year when we had injury problems on defense and now we just let him walk. I just have this bad feeling that after investing so much time in Bergie now that he is starting to figure it out he is shipped out to make room for question marks. Snow has done a pretty good job so far so I’m just hoping it works out.
No Bergy takers... even at yardsale prices.
Bergy has been shopped already. I don’ t think Garth was getting any offers for him. He’s at a stage of his development where teams either have their own prospects that fit better, or they would rather spend assets on a proven producer.
Botta has said that he will have an opportunity to reach his potential elsewhere… that may take some team taking a flyer on him for just his contract. THis may be the best thing for Sean, because there is obviously no love between he and Gordon… (That doesn’t sit too well with me, a fan who watched the kid rev that engine night after night).. but you just have to sit back and see what their answer is.
Is it Eric Nystron? I’m not a big fan of that move…
Is it Nino? Not on that one either…
Just way too many answers to that question… we need to see what the plan is because speculating just gives me a headache.
But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?
I doubt there are no takers
I’ll bet dollars to donuts that Bergenheim lands in either Jersey, Florida, Philly or Boston. Those three teams would love to have a moderatly priced third liner who doesn’t hurt 5 on 5 and can kill penalties. Bergenheim’s value is that of a slightly above average thrid liner.
My take is that we are at where we are at with him due to poor planning and assett mangement. A few years ago there were rumors swirling that Bergy was on the blog and I believe that it was Tampa, Philly and Toronto showing interest.
And that wasn’t from that shit head Eklund either. I recall that from Spector and I think McKenzie corroborated it in a blurb. I think Snow was looking at thrid- forth round pick in return (I think Prospal was mentioned as well but that might have been for someone else).
I don’t think it works well for Bergy and another team to sit out on the Market. Snow’s and Bergies best bet was to deal him to another team so he could get a qualifying offer. He was probably looking in the neighborhood of about 850k to 1.2 mill. Doesn’t so much work here cause, as I’ve mentioned, he tends to get exposed given that he’s limited.
On a good team he’s a very useful piece that won’t have to eat up time here and there on the top two lines.
Those FOUR teams...
…may be a good fit. But Botta is pretty good with that behind the scenes insight. So I’ll take his word for it. It also makes sense that he was being offered at the deadline because, just like now, they were trying to make some room for Jesse and Matt Martin to play games against NHL competition.
I think they then used the last part of the season to show that he still had value, and Bergy did his part.
I don’t think Snow is a big fan, and I think the same holds true for Gordon. You’re assessment of their asset management oversimplifies the process. I didn’t like it because I really liked watching Bergy… always on the cusp of breaking out… but in reality he needs a team that needs him more as a 2nd line LW and will make a comittment to him offensively… again, much like Blake did under Nolan. If you take away some of the defensive responsibilities, like the PK time, and playing against the top line, you open up opportunities for him. He’s had those opportunities in the past, and he’s young enough that he’ll get them elsewhere.
But the Isles need to move on… I guess. His offensive role tryouts would be cut short by Jesse, then Nino, then a host of others who will eventually make this team a contender.
As far as not getting anything for him. There wasn’t a market for him. Look for similarly tooled players at the deadline. I don’t recall the other deadline deals, but there wasn’t much going on where you could say, “hmmm…Bergy could have filled that need better than that guy”.
The teams you mentioned may want Bergy to go into the season now that they don’t have to pay the tax on him… and they don’t have to deal with the RFA structure. If Bergs wants to stay in the NHL he just may have to deal with the NHL low-ballers for a year… we’ve seen the Isles do that before, especially recently with question mark free agents… one and doners are the new craze.
But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?
I can't say I totally disagree with thi smove
while he has had some bright games, he has had many below average games in between them. we need someone more consistent, and for most of the year he wasn’t
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New Jersey
|
82 | 48 | 27 | 7 | 103 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
82 | 47 | 28 | 7 | 101 |
|
Philadelphia
|
82 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 88 |
|
New York Rangers
|
82 | 38 | 33 | 11 | 87 |
|
New York Islanders
|
82 | 34 | 37 | 11 | 79 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
Islanders Schedule
Next 5 Games
|
@
Philadelphia
|
Wed 09/29 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
Calgary
|
Wed 09/29 | 8:00 PM EDT |
|
@
New Jersey
|
Fri 10/01 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
New Jersey
|
Sat 10/02 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
Montreal
|
Sat 10/02 | 7:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
|
Pittsburgh
|
Sun 04/11 | OT - L 5 - 6 |
|
@
New Jersey
|
Sat 04/10 | L 1 - 7 |
|
@
Pittsburgh
|
Thu 04/08 | L 3 - 7 |
|
Montreal
|
Tue 04/06 | SO - W 4 - 3 |
|
Ottawa
|
Sat 04/03 | W 4 - 1 |
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