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What no GM, no scout and no fan knows about the NHL draft

8th-round pick?! How could so many scouts have missed it...right?

A thing I like to keep in mind during draft week, when we're at our worst tending to read a whole lot into the murky world of projecting the careers of 18-year-olds:

Emerging Blackhawks power forward Dustin Byfuglien was drafted in the 8th round. A round that doesn't exist anymore.

If you woke up from a coma last month and only saw his playoff performance, (11 goals in 22 games, instrumental in eliminating Vancouver, San Jose and Philadelphia), you'd wonder how 29 NHL teams could be so stupid. Alternatively, if you watched him play since his rookie year, you'd know instantly both why a team "took a chance" on him and why he was selected so late: Tantalizingly big body, but a project to be sure. Even this season, when at age 24 he notched 17 goals in 82 games, his inconsistency drove enough Hawks fans nuts to get them wondering if they'd be rid of him.

I mention this not to make the age-old point that, "Well, 29 other teams passed on Player X, too." No, I'm talking about a feature of the draft I rarely see mentioned, perhaps because it is by definition an elusive kernel to uncover: We don't know if 29 teams passed on him, because we don't know how many teams wagered this wing-and-a-prayer prospect would still be around in the 9th round.

Just to take an Islanders-centric example, Garth Snow traded up with the Campoli pick not once but twice last summer to make sure he got Calvin De Haan. Snow held on Day 2's first pick to draft Mikko Koskinen at 31 because he thought he'd be gone before the next round. Necessary moves to get those guys? We'll never know.

Star-divide

The draft is not just the culmination of years of scouting and note-taking. It's not just a poker game among GM's trying to move up or down in the first round. It's also the culmination of your organization's word--of-mouth intelligence, hunches your scouts have because they saw a scout from Team Y scouting that same obscure Player Z. It's separating rumor from outright fiction, distilling misdirection out of good-ol-fashioned shop talk over a beer. Figuring out who are your friends in the game you can trust, and who are friends who curiously only check in when they need something.

Maybe a lot of teams were eyeing Byfuglien with their 9th-round pick that year. Maybe the teams selecting behind Chicago decided to pass on Byfuglien in the 7th round because they just knew he'd be there in the 8th. Maybe the Islanders, who selected 6-foot LW Igor Volkov at 246, didn't expect the Hawks would take Byfuglien at 245. Two rounds prior, the Isles selected Bruno Gervais at 182, one slot before the Bruins took Nate Thompson. Gervais over Byfuglien? Are you kidding me?! As recently as two-three years ago, that still didn't sound crazy at all.

In truth, when you get down to the late rounds that no longer exist (they stop at round 7 these days), teams often have a pool of longshots or Euro prospects they choose from, and any seriously desired pet projects are taken before then. But the fact is we just never know. And often, neither do they.

Because in the draft, teams are not only betting on a player, they're betting on their best guess of when he'll still be available. Sometimes they err too soon. Sometimes they err too late.

So "how could they not pick that guy?!" we ask? Maybe they -- and a few of their peers -- fully intended to. In the next round.

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So “how could they not pick that guy?!” we ask?

this debate works well with guys like big buff… not so well with guys like Parise, at least in my view… or maybe its just that the excuse was that he was too small, and that we picked a hulking monster of a player who was way way bigger than he wa-… oh wait, nevermind…

clean and sober for 2 months and change... only thing different is that now i KNOW i'm the asshole everyone says i am :-)

by bob l on Jun 21, 2010 10:36 AM EDT reply actions  

Look at our recent 6th rounders

especially Lee…and Cizikas before him. A lot of teams will be kicking themselves over missing those guys. And the Islanders figured out that Cizikas would be given probation and that Lee would go for hockey not football because they dug deeper and got to know the player and his situation better.

by BCISLEMAN on Jun 21, 2010 12:34 PM EDT reply actions  

As Islander Fans

We’ve had a few nice lottery scratchers come through in the sub 5th round… but the POTENTIAL of our most recent sub5’s are OUTSTANDING. Of course, it doesn’t take a crystal ball to understand that potential doesn’t pan out most of the time, or we’d have won the cup 10 times since ‘85.
But you have to really like the responsibility Jankowski and company have shown over the past few drafts… I don’ t think there’s been a thoughtless, wasted pick in the bunch.

But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?

by JPinVA on Jun 21, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would say that Lee is as close to a lock as any prospect could be

I would also say that there have been plenty of times over the last two years that Buff looked very much like an 8th round pick.

by BCISLEMAN on Jun 21, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks to Center Ice

And trying to scout Islander prospective trading partners I’ve seen a few of Chicago’s games this year and i’d have to say that Buff NEVER looked like an 8th round pick this year… because 99% of 8th rounders never make it to the NHL, and Dustin may not have looked like a first or second rounder, but he has looked as if he belonged in the NHL when I’ve seen him. I don’t think he’s had the level of confidence that he’s had over the last 20 and the playoffs.
To bring this back to the Isles, this is where the Isles seem to be with Matt Martin… He’s a late 5th rounder, who’s agent tried to negotiate up, as if he was an early 2nd because of his play in his gap year, and could have late 1st rounder type potential if his play matches his expectations… I’d love to be having a conversation about Matt Martin the 60 point PHYSICAL player that the Isles scooped up in the fifth solely because they saw him while checking out Katic on a scouting trip (speculating)

But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?

by JPinVA on Jun 21, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have seen him this year and last and at various times, he looked more like an eighth round pick than a first rounder…and many Hawk fans have complained in the same manner. There are times when he is a house on fire and times when he absolutely disappears.

by BCISLEMAN on Jun 21, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

So... lemme get this straight...

You… (if you were a chicago Blackhawks fan) he performed as well as any random 8th round pick… like say the first one in his draft year…Jamie Hoffman… I think carolina would give up Jamie for Dustin… they might have to think about it for a second or at least until they composed themselves….
I’m pretty sure the Isles would have given up both their 8th round picks from that year for the 2008-09 Dustin… and they’d throw in the truck that hit Witt as compensation should Dustin make the NHL team for more than 10 games.

But what does all this mean to Jeff Tambellini?

by JPinVA on Jun 21, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you look at Hawk fans in the blogosphere

more times than not they are voicing their frustration with Buff. That is part of the reason there have been so many trade rumors about him. Many Hawk fans have tended to look at him as a lazy underachiever who isn’t worth what he’s paid or, at the very least, a jekyll and hyde player who will show spurts of brilliance but then disappear for long stretches of the season.

by BCISLEMAN on Jun 21, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok, so ignore the fans, i’ll bet 1/2 of them dont realize he was an 8th rounder anyway, btw, being an 8th rounder means he had to work quite hard to make the nhl, because they dont give u a free ticket to the show in that round

clean and sober for 2 months and change... only thing different is that now i KNOW i'm the asshole everyone says i am :-)

by bob l on Jun 22, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

You could say the same thing about Bruno, as he was a late round pick too. But our fans give him shit constantly, even when he is doing well.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jun 22, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

well, bruno teased us 2 years ago, ur mindset says, ok, well he was good, next year he’ll be better, but he turned into Ricky Gervais instead

clean and sober for 2 months and change... only thing different is that now i KNOW i'm the asshole everyone says i am :-)

by bob l on Jun 22, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

the fans aren't wrong

he has been jekyll and hyde for much of his career. The thing that would make it difficult to trade him is that he has seemed to come alive for the playoffs.

by BCISLEMAN on Jun 22, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

The crapshoot it is...

Great point Dom. We took Martinek in the 8th rd in ‘99 I believe, and while he isn’t on Buf’s level exactly, he’s obviously stuck around longer than most other picks. Consider this, (something I’ve pointed out before):

In 1996, Steve Valiquette went to the Kings in round 8, #190, Fernando Pisani at #195, Willie Mitchell at #199 and even Tomas Kaberle !!! at #204. Sometimes you just have to hope for the right luck and do your homework on the guys you think really have the desire and upside to perhaps take a shot on in the late rounds.

I cannot wait for Rakh-tober.

by albeezle on Jun 21, 2010 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

OFF TOPIC............TONIGHT ON MSG+: GAME 6 1993 PLAYOFFS

TONIGHT ON MSG+: GAME 6 1993 PLAYOFFS

http://islanders.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=532177&cmpid=rss-News%20in%20English

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on Jun 21, 2010 6:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Really? That game. For me it’s to depressing to watch. Plus when I was making the “History Will Be Made” for Dale Hunter I had to watch that hit a Dozen times.

The Islanders went from Marty McInnis and a 2nd Overall pick to Jesse Joensuu.

by Mark D on Jun 21, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

ISLANDERS ANNOUNCE PRE-SEASON SCHEDULE

Preseason Schedule features games in 5 North American locations

http://islanders.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=532207&cmpid=rss-News%20in%20English

(No Kansas City)

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on Jun 21, 2010 6:40 PM EDT reply actions  

At least Quebec is a hockey town.

The Islanders went from Marty McInnis and a 2nd Overall pick to Jesse Joensuu.

by Mark D on Jun 21, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

and a former home to an NHL franchise

both of which should make rumors about an Islander move there more compelling.

by BCISLEMAN on Jun 21, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

ehh, still say the Islanders aren’t moving away from NY unless Wang sells them. He doesn’t want to be an absentee owner.

Now if Wang sells the team, all bets are off the table. But the other thing that makes me think they’ll be around is that No Stanley Cup winning team (let alone a team that won 4 cups) has folded/relocated/whatever since the 1932 Montreal Maroons.

The Islanders went from Marty McInnis and a 2nd Overall pick to Jesse Joensuu.

by Mark D on Jun 22, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

We have already broke any standard by trading with the Rangers…what’s next?

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on Jun 22, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

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Aaron Ness 55 D 5/18/1990 170 5-10
Nino Niederreiter 25 RW 9/8/1992 205 6-2
Frans Nielsen 51 C 4/24/1984 184 6-0
Kyle Okposo 21 RW 4/16/1988 205 6-0
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P.A. Parenteau 15 LW 3/24/1983 193 6-0
Rhett Rakhshani 49 RW 3/6/1988 190 5-10
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Mark Streit 2 D 12/11/1977 197 6-0
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