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50-Man Roster: Decision time on Islanders 2008 picks

A sometimes overlooked part of NHL roster management is the 50-contract maximum. When the Islanders make a decision like the one earlier this week with 2008 pick Jyri Niemi, they're factoring not only whether Niemi has a place on their depth chart and is worth betting the mandatory three-year entry-level commitment -- by far the two most important concerns -- they're also deciding if they want him taking up one of those 50 slots. (Or in reality, less than 50: Teams typically leave slots open as they enter the season so they can, say, break the emergency glass and add a Trevor Gillies.)

Right now, including pending free agents and non-roster players (hello Tony Romano), you can see at CapGeek the Islanders' 50 potential contracts for next season. An important distinction here is that the 50 number relates to the year a contract is valid -- and not to this transition moment. So an expiring free agent's contract does not preclude you from signing Kevin Poulin, whose contract kicks in for next season.

As you can see, from Sean Bergenheim to Brett Westgarth [IOW reminds me Westgarth was traded in March, but you get the drift]] the Islanders have 21 20 pending free agents. That's a lot of openings on the 50-man roster, even assuming several (Schremp, Bergenheim) will be retained. So it's not like Niemi was going to get in the way, and you wouldn't let the 50-contract limit cost you a legit prospect. But if you don't feel confident your prospect is going to be an NHL player, you don't make the mandatory three-year entry-level commitment when you can fill several holes with minor league free agents (like Greg Mauldin and Mark Flood last year).

Extra Picks Mean Extra Decisions

That leads me to another variable that we don't consider on Draft Day when we're celebrating a bounty of picks (2008) or, alternatively, wondering if we spent too many of those surplus picks to move up (2009): In two years, the club has to make fish-or-cut-bait decisions on every pick who isn't in college or Russia. Too many prospects is a great problem to have, really, but it also means decisions like the one Garth Snow and his staff made with Niemi.

And with the June 1 signing deadline fast approaching (and Travis Hamonic already in the fold), the Islanders still have a few decisions to announce (or let pass quietly) on 2008 picks. Namely, Jared Spurgeon and David Ullström.

Star-divide

Status: Islanders 2008 Draft Picks

First, let's reset what Snow and Ryan Jankowski (and their army of scouts) did with that pile of picks in 2008, and where they are now:

1 #9 Josh Bailey Windsor (OHL) Signed and made team in 2008. Passed "Go," collected $200
2 #36 Corey Trivino BU (NCAA) As a collegiate, his rights are retained; has work to do
2 #40 Aaron Ness Minn. (NCAA) Collegiate, didn't meet higher hopes going into last year but returning to the Gophers in the fall; his rights remain
2 #53 Travis Hamonic Moose Jaw (WHL) Signed this week, will be in camp in Sept.
3 #66 David Toews North Dakota (NCAA) After a tough year, is said to be leaving for the WHL, but his rights will remain
3 #72 Jyri Niemi Saskatoon (WHL) Traded to the Rangers for a 6th in 2010
3 #73 Kiril Petrov Kazan (KHL) Will be in prospect camp; as a KHLer ("defector"), his rights remain
4 #96 Matt Donovan DU (NCAA) Promising collegiate building off another great year, his rights remain
4
#102
David Ullström
HV71 (Swe.)
Must be signed by June or Isles lose his rights
5 #126 Kevin Poulin Victoriaville Signed this spring, he'll fill one of the goalie slots in 2009-10
5 #148 Matt Martin Sarnia Signed last summer, learned in Bridgeport in 2009-10 and might win an Isles job in Sept.
6 #156 Jared Spurgeon Spokane Completed a successful junior career; must be signed by June or Isles lose his rights
6 #175 Justin Dibenedetto Sarnia Overager signed last summer, completed season in Bridgeport

The more I revisit that list, the more I still feel good about that haul. Two years later, you can still say they may have gotten a player with every-other pick. Reason dictates it won't turn out that way -- 50% would be an insane average, particularly considering how many late-rounders there are -- but to say that two years later several of these guys still have potential NHL careers isn't bad at all.

(Another hindsight view is, would you rather have Luke Schenn or Nikita Filatov, or Josh Bailey plus the extra lottery tickets those two trade-downs yielded? I was fine with those moves at the time and I'm still fine now.)

Anyway, here's a bit more about the two players the Islanders are about to lose if we don't hear about a signing in the near future:

 

David Ullström, LW/C, shoots right, 6'3", 198 lbs.

In the context of several Swedes who must sign with their NHL clubs by June (Note: My understanding is it's June 1, though several Swedish papers report it as June 15). Those Swedish papers are talking about the risk of HV71 losing Ullström to the Islanders. (That and several articles like it are in Swedish; here's Google Translate.) But they never have quotes directly from the player or his agent, so it's unclear how seriously the Islanders are pursuing it, if at all.

Ullström is big and depicted as a good playmaker who has needed to work on his defensive game. If he were going to meet his potential, you'd definitely want a piece like that over here. The question is whether the Isles think he can reach that level (and secondarily, whether he's interested in coming over). The Islanders' luck with selecting and developing big Nordic forwards is questionable, though so is the suggestion that their Swedes and Finns from one year to the next represents a trend rather than the massive case-by-case crapshoot known as the NHL draft.

Note: When Ullström was drafted, the current transfer agreement wasn't in place, so at the time they would have expected to have Ullström's rights for beyond two years before having to make a signing decision.

 

Jared Spurgeon, D, shoots right, 5'9", 180 lbs.

Spurgeon is the more interesting case to me. As you can see from a couple prominent write-ups, the praise for him after 2008-09 did not drop off in 2009-10. His assistant coach in Spokane, former NHLer Jon Klemm, raves -- the way junior coaches often do -- that Spurgeon's intelligence and patience remind him of Klemm's old teammate Sergei Zubov.

The problem, of course, is the size. It's not that small defensemen can't make it in this league -- but it is harder for them, and the Islanders happen to have small D-men lining their depth chart and prospect pool. So the question facing them, two years after signing Jack Hillen and selecting both Aaron Ness and Spurgeon to join Mark Katic is: Do you bet a three-year commitment on Spurgeon being able to overcome the size mismatch in the NHL? That's a lot of eggs in the small-D-man basket.

Whatever their decision, we'll know for sure very soon.

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Ship Slowly Turning

Instead of making three or four “depth” signings this off-season, it might serve Capuano well to have fresh recruits that were identified by ISLANDER scouts as potential ISLANDERS.
Ullstrom seems to fit the mold of what they need in BP, and eventually on long island… It may be a long way away, but Jesse-Lee-Ullstrom could be what this team has needed for a long long time.
Spurgeon, on the other hand, clouds the water with even more. Our defensive corp currently ranges from smallish to petite… that trend needs to change… and they already have a ton invested in a deHaan who has to put sand in his pockets on windy days.
The best thing out of all of this is that we are talking about the future of this team with promise, potential and OPTIONS. A far cry from where we were 5 years ago… with a thin top layer, and almost no support below it.
Good job Snowy… what do you know about extracting 20M gallons of crude from seawater?

NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!

by JPinVA on May 28, 2010 1:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Spurgeon is DeHaan's size and may be as talented as he is

They should either sign him or get a very good asset for him.

by BCISLEMAN on May 28, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay...

Right now, saying that he is more talented than Calvin deHaan would be more of an indictment of drafting deHaan with the 12th overall pick than anything else. Maybe they can do chin-ups from the crossbar to see who gets to play in BP this year. Actually, I think deHaan is a definite for another season of juniors (that’s what i’ve read so far)..
You should have to be able to see over the deli counter at Ben’s if you want to be a NY Islander defenseman.
 

NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!

by JPinVA on May 28, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t forget DeHaan was hurt for a good chunk of last season, another year of JRs seems like a definite unless he has an insane camp.

The Islanders went from Marty McInnis and a 2nd Overall pick to Jesse Joensuu.

by Mark D on May 28, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another good point...

Spurgeon is too old to play in juniors, and probably too old to grow 3 inches…
To be honest, when wagering on who will be part of the NHL club in 3 years my money is on Donovan.
Of course I’d love them to sign Spurgeon and have him become a 50 point rookie in Bridgeport… but with all the money to spend on the big club it’s more likely all the bits and pieces that were in the NHL (Kohn, Flood.. etc) play most of the year in BP and Spurgeon starts his pro career in Utah. They need size in BP as well… I guess, another question is, what happens to Witt?
You’d like to hope he stays in BP to work with Hamonic… that’s two spots.
Katic and Kohn are two more definite spots.
If deHaan has a monster camp does he break the hopefully UFA (and #5 overall pick)infused NHL lineup, or does he get a few months with Campy learning the go-go?
It’s gonna be a fun summer chatting this crap up.

NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!

by JPinVA on May 28, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait...

Katic, Kohn, and Hamonic at BP, I guarantee one makes the big club out of camp, most likely Katic if he’s back from 100% from injury (he would have been up mid season over Kohn if he wasn’t injured). There are just not enough bodies on the Island for at least one of them not to be (unless we sign like 3 free agents).

by Judgegavel on May 28, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Katic?

Judge,
Do you have a good read on the BP defense? The only way I could see Katic was if they signed Volchenkov (or a defensive specialist with size) and drafted Gudbranson (not likely). that would force their hand with Meyer becasue they’d have the chef as a 7… and could afford to promote a puck moving dwarf smalish defenseman who wouldn’t have as much PK responsibility.
Streit-XXXXX
Hillen-XXXXX
MacDonald-XXXXX
You’d have to think that Meyer is a better option than Katic with the way he ended last season. Kohn was okay, and I really don’t see Bruno anywhere there isn’t a coffee pot within 20 feet.
$15M to get to the cap floor makes it a very interesting puzzle… If they were allowed to exhume bodies and re-animate them they could build a 6’4" 240lb defenseman for $15M… but now they’re going to have to find a bunch of $3M+ players to fill a lot of holes… while developing younger players.
Rubics Islanders will be appearing at a rink near you this fall…

NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!

by JPinVA on May 28, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually Dom and a few others mentioned it during the season that the team was High on Katic, and only the bad timing of his injury kept him from being called up. Wouldn’t be surprised if he made it out of camp.

The Islanders went from Marty McInnis and a 2nd Overall pick to Jesse Joensuu.

by Mark D on May 28, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm no scout..

but I saw a few BP games over the net… really not that impressed with him. I could have caught some bad games and he could have improved. I always feel that a player should DOMINATE at a level before being promoted… and there was NOBODY in BP that dominated on “D”. I’d at least expect him to be as strong a puck mover as Hillen at the AHL to see NHL time… and I didn’t see that. Small sample though, and I’m usually wrong.
Heck, I thought Ben Walter was their best player when I saw them… and if I was right it doesn’t say much for that team (which also had Tambellini, Smith and Iggulden… noneof whom has made it in the NHL since… even though Tambellini has been like a tennis ball being sucked through a garden hose.

NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!

by JPinVA on May 28, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well he was going to the allstar game until he was injured, and was expecting a call up.

by Judgegavel on May 28, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly...

if it wasn’t for the injury he would have been a mainstay on the defense from midseason on the way Kohn basically was. The only reason Kohn got the call was because of the injury. Katic play last year warrants a long look, just simply based on the numbers I think he makes it (over Kohn), but I’m not counting Hamonic out, if he has a strong enough camp he could jump them both.

by Judgegavel on May 28, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mark Katic...

may be tennis ball number two (or three if you count all the time Bruno spent with Streit last year). Did Kohn replace him in the AHL all-star game as well?
I can’t find anything positive about his AHL performance, and I did find a fan shot where BC lists 4 islander defensive prospects with a shot, and Katic wasn’t one of them. Maybe he feels that the teams need for size, like me, out weighs(pun intended) their need for somebody else to get the puck from the back of the net without bending.

NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!

by JPinVA on May 28, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

They can play him with Streit, everyone looks great next to Streit.

The Islanders went from Marty McInnis and a 2nd Overall pick to Jesse Joensuu.

by Mark D on May 28, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

This whole silent game thing stinks

It would be nice to know what Garth and Janny are thinking on these guys. If they told us that could help us sooo much with our mock drafts…

Seriously, for the sake of saving face you would think that Garth would sign them. That was the beginning of his rebuild and to let them walk when they are getting favorable reviews seems to be counterproductive.

Sending the Isles to China was Wang's vision of making Strange Brew 2: Stranger Brew.

by metalcoconut on May 28, 2010 1:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Spurgeon

I would suspect with how thin the Isles D Corps got last March/April that he would be signed at the very least for Depth reasons. If your talented and under 6 foot you can still cut it in the AHL.

The Islanders went from Marty McInnis and a 2nd Overall pick to Jesse Joensuu.

by Mark D on May 28, 2010 2:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Witt does, Yash doesn't

Witt is still a “pro contract,” whereas Yashin is a buyout who just counts toward the cap.

Guys on amateur tryout contracts do not count (I’m fairly certain), and guys who are just on minor league deals (like Gillies was before he was signed and called up for the Flyers game) do not count.

Lighthouse Hockey: Playing the NHL Lotto

by Dominik on May 28, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

A player counts even after you waive him?

by Judgegavel on May 28, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, it's all about contracts

Anybody in Bridgeport on a pro contract with the Islanders counts, which is why the 50-limit can come into play: If you make a mistake, you’re stuck with it unless you trade it or buy it out. Usually the mistake hurts you in other ways before the 50-contract limit becomes a concern, but it’s there.

Lighthouse Hockey: Playing the NHL Lotto

by Dominik on May 28, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unless you’ve signed him to a two way deal.

The Islanders went from Marty McInnis and a 2nd Overall pick to Jesse Joensuu.

by Mark D on May 28, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even two-way guys

They’re still on this 50-man limit. If you can play in the NHL tomorrow without signing a different contract, then you count against someone’s 50-contract tally.

(With how confidently I’m talking about this, I sure hope I’m right. Wading into the CBA is like a bad dental appointment, but I think I made it through with all my teeth intact.)

Lighthouse Hockey: Playing the NHL Lotto

by Dominik on May 28, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course, I should add the condition that junior guys don’t count until they’ve played 11 NHL games in a season: So de Haan won’t count if/when he’s returned to juniors unless he eclipses that mark.

Here’s the relevant passage:

In actuality, most teams opt not to use the full 50-contract maximum to give the organization the flexibility to make roster moves – trades, waiver claims, or player signings – at any given time. Most teams carry a significant number of signed players at the minor professional level, AHL being the highest minor pro league in North America. Since these players are already signed to contracts, it’s easy for clubs to recall the player(s) to the NHL as needed.

Other players may be signed to contracts but returned to the player’s junior club – most often this takes place between an NHL club and Canadian Major Junior teams (teams that play in the Ontario Hockey League, Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, or Western Hockey League, collectively the CHL). But 18 and 19-year-old players assigned to their team in the CHL do not count against the 50-contract maximum, until they have played at least 11 NHL games in one season.

Lighthouse Hockey: Playing the NHL Lotto

by Dominik on May 28, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

guys we should resign

Moulson of course, he is the most important by far in my opinion.

Then Schremp, Meyer, and Lawson( he should be the backup this season)

Bergy it depends on how much $$$ he wants, we may be able to get someone else for the same price.

I would be OK if they signed either Kohn or Reese, Smith , Sim or Park. not all of them, but 1 or 2

by Rickfansince76 on May 28, 2010 3:25 PM EDT reply actions  

So Poulin will be in BP next year, thats going to be interesting.

by Judgegavel on May 28, 2010 4:26 PM EDT reply actions  

50-man Roster

My 2 cents worth on Spurgeon is sign him.He has the makings of being a valuable trade chip or possibly making one of the other smaller defencemen in the organization expendable in a trade.Someone did a good job of scouting this guy and I would hate to see that go to waste.Dom mentioned Brett Westgarth as a pending UFA was he not traded to San Jose near the end of last year?

by Isle Of Weight on May 28, 2010 4:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Ack, good point

Forgot about Westgarth being traded.

Lighthouse Hockey: Playing the NHL Lotto

by Dominik on May 28, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lost draft picks

I agree completely. I can’t understand why we would ever let a prospect walk, like Niemi. I hope he does’n’t come back to haunt us. we’ve invested a pick on them, Certainly a 20 year old you’re not sure will ever make the NHL is still a better investment to play in the minors then some other teams discarded minor leaguer. (unless his name is Moulson- what’s my point again?) These players we are discussing were late round picks who have developed beyond expectations- should we not risk that trend continues. Give me 12 small fast, skilled NHL defenecemen and I certain think they could be turned into 3-4 six foot plus d-men. every team needs speed and skill too.

Draft Connolly, we need more offence- Don't gimme no hip.

by since70too on May 29, 2010 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

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New York Islanders Roster

# Pos. DOB W H
Josh Bailey 12 LW 10/2/1989 190 6-1
Rick DiPietro 39 G 9/19/1981 190 6-1
Mark Eaton 4 D 5/6/1977 215 6-1
Michael Grabner 40 RW 10/5/1987 185 6-0
Travis Hamonic 3 D 8/16/1990 203 6-2
Milan Jurcina 27 D 6/7/1983 253 6-4
Andrew MacDonald 47 D 9/7/1986 196 6-1
Matt Martin 17 LW 3/8/1989 210 6-3
Al Montoya 35 G 2/13/1985 203 6-2
Mike Mottau 10 D 3/19/1978 190 6-0
Matt Moulson 26 LW 11/1/1983 205 6-1
Evgeni Nabokov 20 G 7/25/1975 200 6-0
Aaron Ness 55 D 5/18/1990 170 5-10
Nino Niederreiter 25 RW 9/8/1992 205 6-2
Frans Nielsen 51 C 4/24/1984 184 6-0
Kyle Okposo 21 RW 4/16/1988 205 6-0
Jay Pandolfo 29 LW 12/27/1974 190 6-1
P.A. Parenteau 15 LW 3/24/1983 193 6-0
Rhett Rakhshani 49 RW 3/6/1988 190 5-10
Marty Reasoner 16 C 2/26/1977 205 6-1
Dylan Reese 42 D 8/29/1984 201 6-1
Brian Rolston 11 LW 2/21/1973 215 6-2
Steve Staios 24 D 7/28/1973 200 6-1
Mark Streit 2 D 12/11/1977 197 6-0
John Tavares 91 C 9/20/1990 202 6-0
Tim Wallace 36 RW 8/6/1984 207 6-1
Calvin de Haan 44 D 5/9/1991 187 6-1

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