Bits: Queens, Wilpon & Wang - oh, and NHL playoffs too
by Dominik on May 12, 2010 11:00 AM EDT
in Bits o' Islanders News
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PrintWow. Here we go again. But first, in hockey that's actually happening:
- Big night last night as Roberto Luongo let in some baaad goals in an elimination game for the second consecutive year. Not worried about the "C" affecting his game, but I am wondering -- again -- why it makes sense for your goalie to be captain? He can't lead by example when the rest of the team is playing like fools, and when he has bad nights...it doesn't look good.
- Big day today as it's do-or-die for Scott Gordon's (and Okposo's, and Hillen's) Team USA against Finland. (Some quotes from Gordon on the first two OTLs at USA Today.) ... Despite the watered-down rosters, naturally the IIHF says the W.C. belongs in Olympic years, too. ... Frans Nielsen and the Danes are hoping to avoid complacency.
- Big night tonight, as the Penguins try to avoid a 1993 Game 7 repeat-light while the Habs can close the Igloo they opened many years ago. ... Meanwhile, Islanders 1975 talk continues in Philly.
- From the Let's Sign That Guy Dept.: In Lou We Trust looks at UFA Paul Martin.
- From the Actual Islanders Talk Dept.: I spoke with Garth Snow briefly about Ridderwall and goaltending depth, and turned that post into my own rambling muse about the impact of the Sweden and Finland transfer agreements.
In hockey that's not happening (the Wang/Wilpon section):
In a Newsday exclusive (that means you're excluded), Jeff Wilpon told Katie Strang [sub.] he's talked with Wang about the Islanders:
"[Wang and I] have talked about Queens. We'd like to be helpful and I think Queens is an option. We built Citi Field well under budget and on time. I have all my guys ready.
"We haven't really discussed ownership. It has been more of, 'Can we get something synergistic with Citi Field and a hockey arena, what can happen here?'"
The Post also has a little AP brief on it, and everybody is picking it up, while Newsday did a secondary story with nothing new about the challenges of Willets Point. Importantly, Wilpon also talked about similar discussions with MLS about a second team there, but doing both MLS and NHL together is not possible.
This comes after the Ken Campbell column from a few days ago that put a third of the league up for sale, which elicited this Puck Daddy question about the Isles, as well as this skepticism from Gallof at Hockey Independent, and this "remain calm" post by Botta at Point Blank. I think the overriding point in all of it is that the Islanders' future venue won't be known until it gets down to the wire. And it's going to look like it's "down to the wire -- no really this time" many more times before we can count on just hockey to talk about. As for the idea of having your team in the hands of the Wilpons, well...
In that Newsday story and to Larry Brooks in the Post, Bill Daly made the rounds responding to the Canadian relocation pushers rumors saying Wang needs funding help from the league and/or will wash his hands of the team. The gist: "No and no."
Meanwhile, out West, it was a day of rampant hope for Winnipeg as many led themselves to believe (again) the Coyotes were just a step away from moving north. That all changed by nightfall, as the Glendale city council approved the NHL's requirement that they cover 2010-11 losses if a buyer isn't found. Not out of the woods yet, but definitely through water on the chaos of the previous 36 hours.
What a typical NHL summer day, eh? Some excellent playoff action combining with the off-ice shenanigans that keeps Canadian hockey writers selling papers, er, clicks, long after their NHL team has been eliminated.
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Just makes me look forward to the draft all that much more…. a whole lot of posturing for nothing elsewhere.
Kind of feel bad for Luongo, but they were dead as could be last night in GM place. The whole team looked flat from the start of the game. I can’t recall ever seeing a team that willed itself to win so little at home… Hope everyone is enjoying their mildly too cold onset of Summer.
I cannot wait for Rakh-tober.
I guess the defense injuries really piled up. But yeah, amazing how bad they looked for multiple games in that series.
That’s another weird dynamic created by the goalie as your captain, though: The rest of the team is taking stupid penalties, making stupid decisions, what can he do but tell them to stop? (And stop the puck, of course…which he did in the 1st to give them a chance.)
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I thought about it some last night; When has he ever been in a situation where he has been set up to win anyway? Vancouver obviously has come along well recently, but did he ever warrant the captaincy? The previous teams did him no favors.
I cannot wait for Rakh-tober.
I forget who pushed it — whether it was Gillis’ brainchild after signing him to the lifetime deal or what.
To me it’s a little like the goalies-for-Hart debate. Obviously the goalie is a huge component of your team (when he’s playing), so giving him the official “C” isn’t really necessary and possibly misses an opportunity to anoint a guy who can make a difference in every part of the rink.
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What they need is a defenseman who can whup Buff
Think they can clear the cap space for Zdeno next summer? A lot of broken hearts up here this AM.
move to Queens probably most realistic option at this time
It really makes sense. I lived near Phoenix and went to some Coyote games. The Arena is in a complex with the Cardinals football Stadium. Between the 2 there is an open air concourse with restaurants and stores. It is awesome, you can grab dinner before or after a game. Plus they have all kinds of things for kids, like slides or games.
by Rickfansince76 on May 12, 2010 11:10 AM EDT reply actions
I hear that place is great
Never been to the venues there though. Could see the LP looking like that if it ever worked, but somewhere, somehow, the Isles should have a nice setup by 2015.
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I wouldn't really mind a move to Queens
after all, I don’t live on Long Island anymore and if I do move back someday I probably won’t be 5 minutes from the Coliseum like I was growing up. That said, please please please please don’t sell the team to the Wilpons, Mr. Wang. You’re not a good owner, but you’re better than they are. I don’t think I could take rooting for two Wilpon-owned teams
2009 Did Not Happen
This.
The Mets are bad enough. I don’t want the Isles new arena to be filled with Dodgers memorabilia.
Perhaps today is a good day to die.
-Klingon proverb
by Thomas Wachtel on May 12, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
if you are referring to the tribute to Jackie
that’s about the only thing I like about CitiField. They could have a similar exhibit dedicated to Islander history with a special tribute to Bill Shea and the role he played in bringing the Mets to Flushing and the Islanders to Uniondale.
NYI needs to go to Queens and leave Wang & TOH in the fastest way possible. The fact Wang is finally talking to Wilpon & Queens is GREAT news. NYI wouldn’t be neglected in Queens and with Wilpon like they are small potatoes in Uniondale.
Read my BR article and the comments
This other poster suggests that Wang’s interests are so tied to those of his business partner and their assets that he could not consider a move to Queens.
If Wang wouldn’t consider a move to Queens, then why is he talking to Wilpon? I doubt Wilpon has spoken only to provide leverage for Wang against TOH.
I read your article and the other poster is extremely biased and 1 sided hoping NYI stays on LI with flawed logic. I agree with your position.
If Wilpon does get NYI it’s a brilliant piece of business, both financially and cross marketing wise. I haven’t followed baseball since the strike of 1981 but if Wilpon owns NYI then I become a Mets fan and attend their games too.
The other poster may have a point about one thing
Wang may be too attached to his partner and his LI interests and selling to the Wilpons—much as I don’t like them—may be the answer. My main concern would be that they leave the hockey ops team in place and let them run the team.
Pretty sure Wang is keeping all options on the stove here; since he’s never come out and addressed Queens specifically at all, I suspect Wilpon talking to Newsday was a Wang-approved response to all the rumors from the past few weeks.
I don’t know if he really still sees compromise as possible with the backward TOH, but if he does it makes sense to subtly allow them to know that his other options are real. Still a wait-and-see situation, though this bit of news at least confirms what many hoped was logically going on.
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The MLS Option
I’ve followed the Wilpons’ attempts to get an MLS franchise fairly close as a big footy fan and I was a bit disillusioned with Metro/NYRB when the rumors of this began. Long story short, it ain’t happening. There are several reasons. The MLS wants to get to 20 teams as soon as possible. They recently announced the 19th franchise (which was down to the Wilpons’ NY and Montreal) to Montreal. Montreal was chosen because by 2012 they will have a soccer-specific stadium open and playable. Where the Wilpons want the stadium are currently privately owned chop-shops (Mets fans know which ones) and are waiting for Bloomberg to declare emmenant domain, no way a soccer specific stadium would be done in time. The 20th will probably not go to an East Coast team now that 19 is the Impact. Couple that with the latest trend for the MLS is to take on USL teams with management structures in place already, and the total failure of the Queens-based FCNY to even take the field for one game before folding has soured the MLS on the Wilpons proposal.
What this means for the Isles, who knows?
Mighty Mighty Metro!
I was wondering about that. They talk up the whole derby rivalry angle, but that doesn’t quite add up to me when Metro/RB is just now getting on solid footing. Do you think they might want NY2 bad enough that they’d allow the Wilpons to do a temporary thing until the chop-shops are cleared?
But I’ve grown tired of Garber using St. Louis’ standing application to motivate everyone else to get their shit in order (Philly, Portland, sometimes Atlanta, Montreal), so I’m a bit pissed off at the whole process.
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From what I’ve heard from the soccer blogs and an my source at RBNY is that the 2nd NY team is pretty much dead now that Montreal was chosen. It was as much an indictment of the lack of substance the Wilpon’s proposal had.
Honestly, I don’t think the Derby angle holds much water right now to begin with. Metro will always be fierce rivals with DC, have a good rivalry with New England and have now with Philly have the potential for another DC-level fued. It’s also not LA with Chivas and the fightin’ Beckhams and there isn’t another team geographically close to them. There’s three good rivalry team there without having the second NY team. I also have never got why St. Louis never got a franchise… yet FC Dallas and Real Salt Lake are allowed to exist.
Mighty Mighty Metro!
by David Hanssen on May 12, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I always figured Garber was using St. Louis as leverage, while keeping them open in case one of the weaker markets falters (Salt Lake looked that way, so did K.C., maybe Dallas). Certainly Philly and the Northwest and even Canada were far more important to add than St. Louis, which will always clamor for soccer no matter what but hardly brings the national numbers.
Can’t say I blame him, but it did get old going through the old song and dance of false hope.
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Looks like I spoke a bit too soon Dom. A friend of mine (Who’s better connected than I am and had previously said negotiations were dead between the two soides) passed this article today where Brian Lewis of the Post quotes Garber as saying the Wilpon owned, Queens-based MLS franchise is still very much in play. Here’s the money quote from Garber (And has Islanders implications)
“They’re still trying to figure out what they might be able to do with the land outside Citi Field. There are very few places to have a stadium in the New York metropolitan area; Queens is one of those prime locations and we’d love to see if we can try to make something work there.’’
Mighty Mighty Metro!
by David Hanssen on May 14, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Does this mean that Mr. Met becomes the Islanders' mascot?
As a Mets and Islanders fan, I would prefer that the Wilpons stick with baseball and let someone that isn’t a Wilpon own the Islanders. However, with the Lighthouse project looking more like a dead proposal, I think the Islanders should be open about brokering an agreement with the Mets to develop the Willets Point area, especially if that means that the Islanders get a much needed new arena.
Moving to Queens as opposed to elsewhere in Nassau, or Suffolk or elsewhere, is probably the best move the Islanders can make. For starters, this should make the Islanders more financially competitive and their net worth should increase dramatically just by moving to Queens alone. As for developing a dining and entertainment complex at Willets Point, I think it makes the most sense with having not just the Mets, but also the Islanders as the two anchors (providing a year round destination).
See my BR post linked above with comments
If the blogger styled NYI Fan Central has his facts straight, Wang may be too tied to his business partner and to central Nassau to move the Isles to Queens. Selling the team to the Wilpons—much as I hate what they have done with the Mets—may be the best option. My sole caveat would be that they keep the Islander hockey management team in place. If nothing else, it would be sweet revenge on my brother for all the tormenting he’s given me about the Isles moving to KC or QC or whereeverC. “So John, now that the Isles and Mets are sister franchises so to speak, does this mean that you will start rooting for the Islanders or the Yankees?”
The guy who posts as Mr. Met on Facebook mentioned the Islanders, and unfortunately, it brought out a lot of Rangers fans who also like Mr. Met.
Mr. Met > The Philly Phanatic
Mighty Mighty Metro!
by David Hanssen on May 12, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The Wilpons
Can I say I just don’t trust them at all. This isn’t even a Mets thing, just that they supposedly lost 400 Million in the Madoff scheme, and they seem to be making odd budgetary decisions of someone that lost 400 million (like removing the spanish subtitles from SNY and removing a lot of it’s original programing to do more infomercials) I really wouldn’t want them clowning around with the Isles or any other franchise.
The Islanders went from Marty McInnis and a 2nd Overall pick to Jesse Joensuu.
I honestly trust the Wilpons more than I do Wang. To reiterate the story I posted in a previous thread:
My father used to be a VP at JP Morgan (pre-Chase merger) and he tells stories of having to deal with Wang as the head of Computer Associates. The animosity between the two side (CA apparently violated some contracts, which Wang of course denied.) got to the point that my father had shirts printed for a division with "Friends don’t let Friends buy from CA" on them. He still to this day says you need to check your hand after shaking Wang’s to make sure you still have all your fingers.
And for all the grief the Wilpons get, they put a higher percentage of their revenue back into thier baseball team than any other owner. Higher than the Steinbrenners and higher than Henry and Luchino in Boston (note: I know both have higher payrolls, I’m talking about percent of revenue spent on the team). I’d rather have them than in charge than say the absentee owners of the Royals (former Wall Mart head honcho Dave Glass).
Mighty Mighty Metro!
by David Hanssen on May 12, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I vote Wilpons...
I was never a big CW fan.(I my opinion is well known here) I really hope he gets the LH project done… but as part of that deal they demolish the coliseum and build more housing/retail/office units… or a casino(that’s just funny).
I don’ t think the Isles can make money there. Wang will, but the Isles will be dependant on that income to stay out of the red… making them UNSELLABLE. Plus… the LH has never offered a NEW building or access to mass transit.
The Wilpons have their own Mike Milbury.. Miguel Milbury… sorry… but they haven’t shut down the Mets because they lost $400M… which is more than double what Chuck says he has lost since buying the franchise… and he’s running his team BELOW the salary cap floor. (Yashin and DP count towards the cap… and he barely hits the floor)
Plus.. if the Wilpons build an arena for hockey there will most likely be a Willie O’ree pavillion and the boards will be in the shape of the NY skyline… with a big apple dropping from the scoreboard everytime the Isles score a goal.
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
actually
if this happens, the city will probably pay for a good part of if not all of it. Also, Bill Shea had a big hand with the Mets in Flushing and the Isles in Uniondale. I suspect that there will be some recognition of him in any arena that is built.
Something like this in banner form?
Mighty Mighty Metro!
by David Hanssen on May 12, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe
although I might prefer something in the lobby going into the history similar to the thing ofr Jackie at CitiField.
they could have an exhibit on Islander history
with a special focus on Shea’s contribution to the Mets and Islanders.
I’d happen to agree with that. If Bloomberg wants to clean up and redevelop Willets Point, and thinks that with the Islanders moving there, that goal will be accomplished, I expect to see that the City of New York to help pay for a new arena. With a new arena, there’s also the possibility that concerts, conventions, etc. can also enhance the viability of such a project.
City in finanacial trouble...
If the city is serious about it’s financial trouble, and I’ll know first hand by the end of the school year, they won’t be building or buying into any areans anytime soon. If there’s talks of layoffs for teachers (which I am, and there is a LOT of talk about it), and Bloomie buys into a new arena, I’m gonna be kind of pissed. I think that Wilpon and Wang are on there own on this one
not necessarily
remember building an arena means jobs. Also, they were planning to build a convention center there anyway I believe.
with a big apple dropping from the scoreboard everytime the Isles score a goal.
Heh heh…oh, the image.
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
