What the 2010 Draft MIGHT look like: part 2
by BCISLEMAN on Apr 7, 2010 2:44 AM EDT
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NOTE: I have added Cam Fowler, Etem Emerson, and Brett Connolly to the mix in the poll.
Every shot, every save at this point can change the future of this franchise. With barely two minutes to go against the Habs, the Islanders seemed destined for a regulation loss that would leave them in pretty decent shape for a 28th overall finish. Then the Great Dane scored, Halak choked in the shootout, and suddenly our shot at pole position for the #3 overall pick was running on exhaust fumes.
It still might happen. If the Islanders lose the next three in regulation (against Pittsburgh and NJ at their arenas and against Pittsburgh at home), Tampa and Florida win their next games against Ottawa and New Jersey respectively, and then split their home and home against each other with both games going past regulation, then they would both have 79 points to the Islanders' 78 and the Islanders would have the 28th spot.
The chances of the Islanders losing all three remaining games in regulation are pretty good. The chances of the Cats and the Bolts both following the scenario are iffy at best. For one thing, both teams would need to play as if they had a pulse which they have not for some time. It may be self defeating as far as the draft, but you have to admire how our guys are so not tanking--saving the MSG fiasco.
There is always the chance of lottery love coming our way. A big shift in draft position hasn't happened in a few years, so you could say that, especially after all of those Milbury years, the Islanders are due. In fact, if this team DOES win the lottery, we could call it the Islanders' Milbury as opposed to Mulligan.
The likelihood, however, is that the Islanders will be picking in the fourth or fifth spot. If the boys go crazy and win a game or two, that draft position might slip back to sixth or even seventh. What would that look like on Draft Day?
Cam Fowler will likely be picked #3 so, unless one of the above scenarios plays out, he will be off the table. Picking in the #4 or #5 slot would likely mean Brandon Gormley or Erik Gudbranson. Gormley is 6'2", 190 lbs and Gudbranson is 6'4", 195 lbs. It is reasonable to expect that both will fill out to over 200 lbs--especially Gudbranson. As to style, Gormley is a taller version of Streit or his idol Nick Lidstrom--smart, savvy, always makes good decisions with the puck, always perfectly positioned. Gudbranson is nasty with a mean streak. It has been said that he is like Chris Pronger except that he fights as well as hits. It has been said that he would have a lot more PIM but other players are afraid to take him on.
It can be argued, as I have already done, that Gormley is more the type of defenseman Garth and Co seem to prefer. It can also, however, be argued that Gudbranson would be a better pairing partner with 6' 184 lb Calvin De Haan because of his more physical style.
If the Isles slip to #6 or #7, the choices will likely be between Nino and Vladimir Tarasenko. This is not a hard choice at all. Tarasenko is a very talented forward, but Nino is taller and seems to me to be a more complete player. More importantly, however, Nino is here, he has adapted to the North American game with flying colors, and he is not in the KHL as Tarasenko is.
If the Isles do select Gormley or Gudbranson, all is not lost as far as improving the offense. Teemu Pulkinnen and Kirill Kabanov were originally supposed to be top five picks but slipped in likely draft position because of wrist injuries and, in Kabanov's case, because he went back to Russia when he wasn't getting the playing time he wanted. Victor Ohman is another possibility as he has been compared to Johan Franzen. If one of these is available when the Islanders make their second pick, he might be NHL-ready by the time Petrov comes over. Add that to the improved play of Blake Comeau and Sean Bergenheim and you might have three or four effective scoring lines as opposed to two "big" lines. There's more than one way to skin a cat or to win a Cup.
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I'm torn in this scenario
I agree that Tarasenko is out for the reasons mentioned, but I’m not sure about D vs. O there, and if D, which one? But my whim will probably change by the day on this front, anyway. Will have to reconsider it in the a.m.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
No reason to take D Dom we need a forward...
Not one of our forward prospects are in the same league as Hamonic, or DeHaan as prospects. We are so deep at D now, but short of JT (I don’t even trust in Kyle or Bailey here) we don’t have anything that looks like a top 3 forward or even close. Our only real talent at forward (Petrov) is probably at best a 2nd liner, and who knows if he will ever play here. The rest of our prospects at F are not going to be any better than 3rd liners if and when they ever make it.
In comparison in DeHaan, and Hamonic we have two prospects that should be 1 or 2 defenseman, we have Kessel and Donovan who should be 3-5s, we have Ness whos still a long shot (but not much more than most of our F prospects) Not to mention Spurgeon, Niemi, Katic, Klementyev, Kohn, Axlesson, Reese and MacDonald to round out for depth.
Kyle and Josh are already proven as at least competent top sixes as is Matt Moulson. With the exception of Hamonic and DeHaan (and De Haan may be good for a top pairing but Hamonic is more a second pairing guy), we are a good 1-2 years from knowing if any of the dedfensive prospects you mention will ever play in the NHL, much less as elite quality players. A t this point, only De Haan and Hamonic can even be mentioned in the same breath as Josh, Kyle, and Matt and none of them can be compared to JT.
With the exceptions of Streit and maybe Hillen, and even he gets pushed around by opposing forwards far too easily, and the aforementioned pair, none of the defenders you have mentioned have established themselves as potential stars. Axelsson will never make it to the NHL, Kessel, Donovan, and Ness are a long way from establishing themselves as NHL players at all—much less second pairing guys, and the others are either third pairing guys or depth defenders. We are in at least as much need of an elite defender as we are of a forward and it now looks like the BPA when we pick may well be a defenseman besides. I should add that, if you look at the poll connected with this article, Islander fans tend to agree about defense first by better than 3-1.
BC its like you haven't read anything all year on Hamonic's development...
every scout said he was the best Dman at the worlds, he has clearly elevated himself to a #1 D prospect, who has outplayed everyone of the Dman you want us to draft. Your also severely undervaluing DeHaan, Donovan and Kessel.
As for Kyle, and Bailey, yes they are legit top sixes on the isles (Kyle may some day develop into a first liner), but legitimately they are not first liners, and probably never will be, and certainly not stars on any other team, JT needs real line mates, Seguine, and Hall are that talented, Nino may be.
The prospect at D are far closer and far better than anything we have at forward.
Hamonic was good at the worlds
but that hardly proves that he will be clearly a #1 or that he has upside comparable to Gudbranson who is the most like him. I am not undervaluing anything. Neither Donovan or Kessel have ever faced NHL competition or even AHL. Until they do, there is no way to realistically assess how they will perform in the NHL. De Haan could become a top pairing guy and maybe Hamonic could show himself to be one as well, but that is far from established.
Kyle is already a legit top line PF. Josh is a very talented forward who could become a star center with better talent around him. Blake is developing into a legit top six PF and everyone around the league is impressed with Moulson’s ability. He is clearly a legit top line forward. I am sorry but you really have no basis for saying that anyone other than De Haan and Hamonic are closer among our D prospects than any of our forward prospects.
He is an excellent prospect no doubt
but it is far from clear that he is a top pairing guy. Are you familiar with the word “upside”? Hamonic was drafted two years ago and is 20 years old. He is just now being considered to go to Bridgeport. These kids are 17 and are already being tagged as NHL-ready.
BTW, I know we like to deride HF, but they have Hamonic pegged below Joensuu and just above Petrov. The rest of the so-called elite defensive prospects—including Donovan—are down at the bottom of the list—well after a lot of the forward prospects you deride.
I agree HF is not a good judge...
I’m not sure how they determine their rankings either for example JJ is # 2 but more (I’m assuming) because he’s the closest to ready probably of any of our prospects, still they only grade him as a 6.5 which is a good third line forward but with a B meaning he should reach potentioal(the only prospect they gave that high besides Rechlicz, Axelsson and Ridderwall, with much lower expectations).
But then they put Rob Schremp 6
Also how do they rank DeHaan number 1 overall at this point, Hamonic is closer, is more of a lock to be something (if not the elite level he’s stepped up to , he still has the size and shut down ability to be a top 4), and we dont have to be as concerned with his size as we do with DeHaan.
Their first 5 should look more like:
1) Hamonic
2) Schremp
3) DeHaan
4) Petrov
5) JJ
with the next three being:
6) Koskinen
7) McDonald
8) Nilsson
9-11) some order of Donovan, Poulin, and Rakhshani, all needing another year to really determine value
Also how do they rank DeHaan number 1 overall at this point, Hamonic is closer, is more of a lock to be something
I think that’s always the awkward balance with these rankings: Hamonic will be an NHLer, the question is how good? De Haan almost certainly will be, but if he’s not close to his “ceiling” then suddenly his usefulness is less than Hamonic’s. I honestly don’t know how one balances ceiling vs. “projected NHL games.”
But on this topic, THN’s Future Watch (which polls 23 NHL scouts, not THN writers) puts de Haan at #28 overall and Hamonic not even in the top 50.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
figure it another way
we will need two big and physical top four defensemen. We currently have one in the system. If I were to guess, I would say that either Gudbranson of McIlrath would become better defensemen than Hamonic. That may not prove to be the case, but we know for sure that we will need another one and Garth told Katie that drafting one was a top priority at the beginning of the season. And now it looks as if we may be in position to draft one so….
We currently have one in the system.
I should say one that we can be reasonably confident will become an NHL top four.
Garth told Katie
Are you sure he told her that’s what he wanted out of the draft specifically? I only remember him saying they want to add a couple of defensemen this summer.
Not that they’re mutually exclusive, but he speaks in specifics so seldom I want to make sure I have it right.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
of course I wasn't in on her conversation with him
but when asked by a fan what the Islanders priorities were in the draft, the very first thing she said was a top four defenseman.
Thanks. I didn’t get to see her chat when it came up, just one of her filed posts.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Yea its a bit hard to balance out, but gets even more complicated with a guy like JJ...
than with DeHaan and Hamonic (who are at least close to comparable on their ceiling)I JJ’s our closest forward on their list aside from Schremp, but realistically at best he’s a good third liner, I can’t see him being really much more than that, hes almost a lock to be their, but should some one that will be a third liner really be ranked as a better prospect than some one like Petrov who has a much higher upside/talent level. Hell they have him ranked higher than Schremp, I don’t get that, Schremp had proven a ton this year, certainly hes a more legit NHLer than JJ at this point, and he certainly has a higher ceiling so I don’t get that at all..
hard to say
Jesse has done well in Bridgeport this year. If there are no major moves to boost the second line this summer (and there may well be) I could see moving him onto the second line with Blake and Josh. He could be the guy to go to the front of the net and bang the boards and create garbage goals, leaving Josh and Blake free to create opportunities. I’m thinking that Schremp might be trade bait say with Chicago, a team with plenty of firepower and in need of cap room.
Yeah, I’m not sold that DeHaan can be a top-pair, nor Hamonic. I mean I like the profile of both, I sure hope they turn out, but neither had the draft-day pedigree that the current class’ top D-men have.
Bottom line, we need forward and D. I’m sure they’ll take their version of “BPA” who has the head they like.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
I could POSSIBLY see De Haan as a #2 to someone like Gudbranson
MAYBE Hamonic will establish himself as a top pairing guy…but that is speculative at best.
I could see it, too
But like you I’m just not counting on it. Or in other words: Do I look at our defensive system depth and think, “Okay, in a few years we’re set, no problem.” No. But also like you (I think), I feel the same way about the forwards…
It gets back to how it would’ve been ideal to steal a second 1st-rounder somehow, but the only route to that probably involves giving up a piece that would be counterproductive to give up.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
we have some good DEPTH on defense
but we lack much elite talent. We probably need 1-2 elite defenders and 1 elite forward. Only realistic shot at a second first would be if Huet falls on his butt in the playoffs and maybe the Bowmans finally decide that he is a backup at best and they might as well pay Biron half what they are paying him to do that. Rights to Biron and Schremp (getting him would make it easier to move Sharp or Versteeg) for Huet, their first rounder and the second rounder from Calgary which figures to be a #43.
In any event, between Kabanov, Pulkinnen, and others, there may well be some elite forward talent available in the second round.
We are far closer to elite talent at D than we are at forward, thats the bottom line...
we need proper line mates for JT, Kyle and Bailey are not it. Moulson’s a year off being considered a career AHLer.
No team “needs” 1-2 elite defenseman, your perfectly fine with quality depth 1-6 which we will have. And both Hamonic, and DeHaan have potential to be elite, or close to it.
Moulson has established himself as a star. Everyone in the NHL has said so, The Moulson—Tavares—Okposo line is a solid top line combination. Bailey, Comeau, and Schremp have all shown promise on the second line.
We simply do not have the kind of depth you suggest at defense. No one aside from De Haan and hamonic has demonstrated that they are NHLers and our current defense impresses nobody—other than you. We had quality goaltending this year and we still had one of the highest GAA in the NHL. It is a clear need.
A star...
really now Moulson’s a star, lol, I guess you think Hunter is one too. If the Moulson-JT-KO line was so good why did they separate them for most of second half of the year?
-We have NO DEPTH at forward, as far as our prospects go.
-1 star defenseman is not going to simply turn around team defense.
-Our goaltending was not that good, we also had one of the worst save %’s
-we also had one of the lowest goals scored totals as well.
-With regards to the far system there is a lot more promise at defense than at forward, its not even close.
Many of our needs at D can also be satisfied via FA, now unless something monumental happens and we sign Ilya, we have no hope in improving our top 6 aside from hoping everyone develops further.
Yes, REALLY s star
Virtually EVERYONE who has discussed the Islanders this year has remarked on it.. And they were split up for several reasons…mostly however, because Gordon was trying to establish some secondary scoring. They worked VERY well together.
You keep saying that the defense is far above the offense and I am sure that you will continue to do so. But you are about the only one saying it.
they are all prospects, yes
but professional scouts are already commenting that those three may be NHL-ready at 17 while Hamonic is basically ready for Bridgeport at 20.
Okay, then juniors schmuniors
To take just one listing, where was Hamonic on THN’s future watch top 50, which was compiled by a panel of 23 scouts? Not on the list. De Haan was at #28.
In other words, we just don’t know. And won’t know for a while. Yet there is organizational need in both areas. And the top prospects for this draft are considered among the ten best players in their age group in the world. (Two years after his draft year, the same can still not be said of Hamonic, though he has improved and rocketed up quite a bit since 2008.) I’ll take best player available.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
If we are picking 4 or 5
Gormley and Gudbranson are likely BPA. 6 or 7 is likely Nino or Tarasenko if for no other reason than that Gormley and Gudbranson will likely be gone by then. Of course, the isles might assess it differently.
Ohman
33. Victor Ohman, Right Wing, Malmo- Allsvenkanen
Scouting Report: Ohman playing over in Sweden has some great hockey sense and brings multiple dimensions to his game. He has good size and brings a physical element to his game, but also has been a dangerous scorer in the junior levels. Better production versus men will help his stock.
http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.svenskafans.com/hockeyzon/artikel.asp%3Fid%3D342609&ei=O1W8S4rIH4nitgOIhPmaBQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAYQ7gEwADha&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dvictor%2Bohman%26start%3D90%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-ca:IE-Address%26rlz%3D1I7ACAW_enCA374CA374
we sit what 6th pick or 7th now? thats’ prime nino territory, or connolly maybe
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Connolly's stock seems to have fallen because of his injury
We are tied on points with Carolina and Columbus but I suspect that we will dip below them because of a tougher schedule closing out the season. We may well dip below one of either FL or TB if one of them dominates the home and home. NCS final rankings will be out today. Keep an eye out as to where Nino and Connolly finish relative top each other and the field.
Seems like a candidate to go to one of the teams with two firsts, no?
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
seems like 2010’s “i’m smarter than all of you combined” Garth Snow pick ;-)
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
God that makes me nervous. They say his injuries should not keep affecting him, but you hear “hip” injuries in a skating game at this age… Of course, I’m not a doctor.
Tyler Myers dropped in his draft year thanks to a knee injury, wasn’t it? You could end up with gold, you could end up with Brett Lindros.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Dunno
I read one report that he was expected to give Hall some competition before he got hurt. Was hoping to see him when I went to Prince George, but he was still out. Columbus and Carolina could both use an elite calibre RW so I expect one of them will grab him if they are content that he is fully healed. He is probably at least comparable to Nino but I preferred Nino for his size—although at 6’2", Connolly surely has room to grow. As to teams with two picks Anaheim and Atlanta both seem to want size and Phoenix won’t be picking until probably 14. Come to think of it, Carolina may opt for Tarasenko because they want size—although he is shorter than Connolly.
told ya not to write that kid off, all the scouts needed was him to show he was healthy apparently, he’s got top end talent… and as for size, wait til the combine when people other than their own teams are measuring them…
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Not a question of me writing him off
I still suspect that some teams will write him off though. He was out a LONG time. He could be a top five pick or he could be someone Boston takes a chance on with its mid rounder depending on how teams assess him.
CSS Final Draft Rankings are up
Seguin 1st. Fowler dropped to 5th. Nino 12th. At #7 is Mark Pysyk, a vowel-challenged name that only a Czech like me could love.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
This could change things a little
My guess right now is that Florida will be the #3. They need offense. If they are satisfied that Connolly is healed, they may go with him. If not, they will probably go with whoever they think is the best defenseman. In that regard, Fowler is probably the more dynamic offensive force of the three. He is the same size as Gormley but has more of a physical edge to his game than the Q star although less so than Gudbranson.
Pulkinnen and Ohman are #17 and #18 respectively and Kabanov has fallen out of the top 30 in NA. They may all be available in the second round. For some reason, Nino is listed as a RW. Although I did see him line up at RW at times for Portland, Portland lists him as a LW and he shoots left. Emerson Etem has been listed a few slots above Nino which is surprising. He concedes two inches and 8 pounds to Nino. He did have five more points in the regular season than Nino although Nino has two more in the playoffs. I don’t recall him making any noise at the WJCs or if he was even there. He might be somebody Carolina looks at seriously.
It's funny
but when I first analyzed the draft in my Where Will It All End? post, Nino and Gudbranson were the ones I focused on then. Be nice to get both of them, but you can’t draft everybody.
I like Nino from limited viewing but dare I go cliche and say BPA specially if one of the Dmen is available when we pick. I certainly think we still need stud forwards but I would stay the hell away from any Russian (at least in the first 3 rounds) and any of those 3 dmen would look good with the rest of the prospects at D
depends on where we pick
If we pick 3-5, yes, we go defense. If this team wins a couple of games and finishes 6 or 7, go with Nino or Etem. Connolly, if he is on the board, should be considered. Kabanov, Pulkinnen, or Ohman should be considered with the second pick.
IDK if Boston goes 2nd they might pick a D man they actually need one unlike us...
so if we slide into 3 we may get whoever Edmonton doesnt pick
we've already discussed that
and even I agree after suggesting they would go defense that Seguin and Hall are far enough separated from the field that Boston would be silly to not draft either one of them over any defenseman in this draft. Edmonton could pick Seguin as well and then Boston would certainly pick Hall. If the Isles lose today, they will likely pick #3 or #4. The only forward who ought to go in that range is Connolly and he has injury issues. Our needs on D are as great or greater really than Boston’s. They have good depth in their defensive system, as we do and lack a true #1 defender as we do. They also, however, have a very deep and talented roster on the big club which we certainly do not. The only defender on our team who would be assured a roster spot with Boston is Streit.
I don't think Connollys any more of an injury issue than any of the D...
yes his injury was a bit more serious and he missed more games, but they all had issues this year. I think I’d prefer trading down and getting Nino, more risk more reward.
What's that?
Oh…you mean the LG Draft Lottery… :) Cause when I think of Daly’s hand opening envelopes, I think of seeing it on the fine, crisp picture of a new HD LG TV set, I do.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
no 3D? fn sham is what it is, i want that envelope to seem like it’s gonna smack me in the face!
btw cablevision airing the next golf major in 3D… now i ask, why? “i thought he was going to slowly walk right thru the screen at me when he was sizing up that putt on the 11th green!!”
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
If available,,,
I’d like to see the Isles take the best available of Fowler, Gormley or Gudbranson. I think that drafting a quality defenseman is the best drafting option the Islanders. Nino is intriguing, but I think the more glaring deficiency with the team is its size on the blueline.
i was so pro fowler, still am, for his PP qb’ing, but i wont lie and say i’d be upset at a 6’2 or bigger winger (nino or connolly)
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Streit and Fowler on the PP would be fun.
But to be honest, I know I will talk myself into whomever they pick (well, provided it’s not some mysterious reach) because I’ve only read about most of them and I’m not counting on them making an impact next season.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Dunno if you have looked at my Gudbranson fanshot
The bit about his brother is touching, but look at the linked NHL.COM profile and compare it to The Captain’s Legends video statements. As Kenny said last year, there will never be another Denis, but Erik could play that role for this team.
Offense First, Defense Second...
If the Isles draft around 7, the good d-men may be gone. If that is the case, than I think they should go with Nino. He sounds like a quality player, and his name is Nino, which I think is awesome.
Then, in the second round, they could address the defense. They’d probably pick around 37, and they could go for a guy like Jarrod Tinordi, who is a huge mass of humanity at 6’5", 205 lbs. This way, they could maybe fill both their needs.
I admit, I am no expert on this stuff. I couldn’t even find profiles of these guys online, so this is all guesswork and speculation. Unfortunately, I think the draft is kind of like that for the GM, too. They do a lot more research and watching and interviewing than I did, but it’s still a gamble.
The only way we will pick as high as 7th is if we win the next two games
More likely we will finish either 4, 5, or 6—although 3 is possible. So its likely that the BPA will be a defenseman. As some pretty good forward prospects figure to drop to the second round, that’s not a proble,.
BPA? Border Patrol Agent?
why do we want a BPA
by Rickfansince76 on Apr 9, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Best Player Available
the idea that, regardless of team need, you take the BPA where you pick. Since we need both at least one more elite forward and one more elite defender, we can go either way and it really depends on where we pick.
I agree, but we really don't need a defenseman...
also very good chance Boston goes D with their pick and Seguine or Hall drop to us at 3.
see above
Assuming Boston is picking at #2, they will pick either Hall or Seguin depending on how Edmonton picks.
they need an elite quality defender as we do
but virtually everyone is saying that Hall and Seguin are clearly better than the field. Boston would be foolish not to pick one of them if it has one of the top two picks.
But they are actually deep at forward unlike us...
and aren’t close to as deep at D prospects as we are.
If anything
they have MORE depth at defense than we do—referring to their system. They are VERY weak at wing in their system—especially at LW. They would no doubt like an elite defender to groom as Chara’s replacement, but they also have injury issues at C. In any event, Hall and Seguin are clearly the two BPAs in this draft and they will go with one of them if they have one of teh top two picks.
as to profiles, the NHL.COM site is one place to look
go to news and scroll down to NHL Entry Draft then look for the video button to the right of the welcome screen. they have about 10 video profiles there now. it will get more complete as the draft approaches. you can also google mckenzies top 30 on TSN. He has brief snapshots of the best prospects and you can do google searches on the ones who interest you.
Good stuff, thanks for the info. Is Tinordi a good prospect? I’ve read he’s good physically but has no puck skills.
I have seen him all over the map on mocks
Central Scouting has him at 9, Mckenzie at 18, MyNHLDraft at 10, and NHL Young Guns at 24. Unless Garth gets a second first rounder, he would likely be off the board when we picked again. If we have a top five, expect a defenseman—Gudbranson, Fowler, or Gormley most likely. There should still be some very good forward prospects on the board when we pick in the second round. Central Scouting comparesForbort to Erik Johnson of the Blues. Ask Dom about him.
Actually I was conflating Tinordi with Forbort
McKenzie has Tinordi at 21 and MyNHLDraft has him at 26 while neither Central Scouting or Young Guns have him as a first rounder.
good F and D?
we have Fs Trevor Smith, Mauldin, Bentivoglio, Juensuu, and Martin..all good but no one stand out great. I think Martin is a guy who makes the team next season but who else do you think?
D Harmonic, De Haan, Niemi…will anyone be ready next season or have we brought up everyone this season with Reese, Flood, Kohn and macDonald
by Rickfansince76 on Apr 9, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
you are forgetting that most of our offensive talent is already on the roster
there is no one in the system on D to compare with JT. Neither De Haan or Niemi will be ready next season and, although I like Niemi, it is far from certain that he will ever make the roster. The same may be said for many of our defensive prospects. Only Hamonic and De Haan are sure of making the NHL and being anything more than depth guys. And the of the list of defenders you mentioned, only Mac Donald would be considered anything other than a depth defender on a good team. In fact, even he would likely be a third pairing guy on a good team. Moulson, Josh, Kyle, and Schremp are all comparable with De Haan and Hamonic who are the best in our system. Aside from that we have Streit and he is 31. Who knows how much longer he can play at thise level?
by BCISLEMAN on Apr 9, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But we only have one true first liner in JT
Kyle and Bailey are borderline, look at Pittsburg, Washington, hell TB they would probably be 3rd liners on those teams. WE HAVE NO LEGIT PROSPECTS AT FORWARD! Not one of our prospects is close to any of the forwards in the top ten, hell they aren’t close to anyone in the first round. We need scorers, we need a first liner!
On the other hand I think you haven’t watched Hamonic or DeHaan this season, they both have stepped up big time and progressed far better than we expected, before their injuries and both are as good (well actually better because they are probably a year closer) prospects at D than Fowler, Gromley, or Grudbranson.
I don’t understand how Okposo and Bailey are borderline, yet that basket of defensive prospects you mention is not. They’re all wild cards. A few should be NHLers (Hamonic, de Haan, hopefully Donovan). Will one or two be able to anchor the blueline? If we’re lucky.
Which forward in the draft (other than the top two) are you eyeing as a sure first-line scorer?
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Boarder line first liners yes...
because they have not shown it yet, not even close.
Figuring two years if you put a line of :
JT-Bailey-KO whats your second MM-Schremp-Comeau, thats a ton of question marks on your first two lines with nothing legit in the system to take any of those spots. However, defense yo will have:
Streit-Hamonic
McDonald-(hopefully FA)
Hillen- Martinek
With DeHaan, Donovan, and all the other prospects close to ready. Question marks yes but you have a lot more possibilities.
I also think its far easier to get a quality d-man via FA than a top 3 forward, top 6 even.
MacDonald is not a serious choice for a top four. Hamonic will MAYBE be at Bridgeport for a callup this year. Hillen could be a second pairing guy, Martinek cannot be counted on for a full year.The top line will likely be Moulson—JT—Okposo. Second line will no doubt include Bailey and Comeau as well as possibly Schremp and Petrov. Joensuu is another possibility. We may need another elite quality top six. We do need another elite top four.
How would we look if...
We had JT, KO, MM1
Bailey, Schremp, Comeau,
Nielsen, Petrov, Bergenheim
Jackman, Gillies, Martin
Streit-Hamonic
Sutton, dehaan
Hillen, McDonald
Meyer
I’d take that in a second…Trade some others in combination for an elite pick or FA…JJ, Tamby, Petrov, etc.
for 2010-11?
Even if Petrov does come over this summer, no one knows how soon he will be NHL-ready. Gillies and Martin are both LWs. You need a fourth line C and Martin probably could use some more development time in Bridgeport. Hamonic probably could too. They are more likely injury callups for 2010-11. I am guessing that one of the reasons Ottawa traded for Andy S was because they do not think they can re-sign Volcenkhov. I would rather go after him, even if we do have to overpay. Meyer may or may not be back.Tambellini is the only one of the three you mentioned that they are likely to trade and I doubt anyone will give them anything for him.
For the future, Petrov’s deal ends in 2012, so he can come over for the 2012-13 season. Anders Lee and Casey Cizikas should be NHL-ready by then or nearly so as should Joensuu. We should have a clearer idea about our other current prospects on offense and defense by then.
De Haan will not be in the NHL this year
Hamonic MIGHT be. Fowler, Gudbranson, and Gormley are likely to be in the NHL this year and have more upside than Hamonic or De Haan. Josh, Kyle, and Matt are all legit top sixes. Aside from De Haan and Hamonic, we have no one in our system who is assured of being a top four defenseman.
If we wind up 3 or 4, which it looks like we need to...
trade down and take either Nino or Connolly, or hope we can get to the top 2 in the lottery. Although at 3 we might have a good shot at Hall or Seguine if Boston goes D which they might.
If we DO get one of the first two picks
yes, I agree, take one of those two. If we are picking three or four , however, it will and should be a defenseman. Trading down would be silly in thsi case.
and, as everyone knows
I have been pushing Nino so hard that even Botta made a joke about it. I even over 1000 miles roundtrip just to see him play. And I would not even recommend trading down.
Were you pushing Nino over at Botta’s site? I didn’t think it was a jab at you, but I don’t know how much you’ve promoted Nino over there or on the boards…
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
I don’t think his comment was a swipe at you. You’ve seen him play. I think he was more talking to people who have jumped on the Nino bandwagon because he has a fun name and is swiss. Didn’t he say something like that in that article?
Hard to say
I doubt anyone has been as fervent as I have with pushing Nino and I have made lighthearted reference to liking Nino because he is Swiss and my grandmother was as well. Even made reference to chocolate, cheese, and watches. Who knows?
I’ve flip-flopped on who I’d like to see the Islanders pick this year. Its unlikely we’ll get Hall or Seguin unless the hockey gods smile on us tomorrow for the lottery or Garth works some incredible magic on draft day. Any of the big three d-man I would be happy with; but I think now I am pulling for Connolly. I think he would of gone in the first four had he not been injured the bulk of this season. He’s got speed and size. He scored 30 goals in the WHL as a rookie. Does anyone know if he is a physical player? That would be perfect. Either way I think we grab him, might not be the safest pick but he he projects higher than a lot of players who will end up going ahead of him. If we do go with a defenseman, I really have no preference between Fowler, Gudbranson and Gormley. All in all they are pretty well rounded players but from what I’ve read and the little I’ve seen of them play; Fowler is the best skater, Gudbranson is the most physical and will even drop the gloves, and Gormley is the most composed/best in his own zone. You could make a strong case for any of those characteristics in a prospect and the Islanders could use all of that. Also, I think Tarasenko has the makings of a superstar but he might be a risky pick due to lack of a russian transfer agreement and not knowing if he wants to come over. I don’t think we need another headache like the Petrov situation. I’d like to see the Islanders grab someone from Canadian Junior Hockey in the first round, always the safest route to go. And I’ll end by adding that I wouldn’t be disappointed if Garth went with Nino. Credit BCIsleman for selling me on him.
As I have discussed elsewhere, I suspect Columbus will go for Connolly. They are hurting for talent in their system at RW. If they don’t take him, I’d be worried as to why. Unfortunately he was still recovering from his hip injury when I went to see Nino. I have read that he was able to use his size to advantage against defenders in juniors. Doubt he would in the NHL. I would be worried about picking him if he were available. We do not need another high profile pick who spends more time in rehab than on the ice.
As I see the defenders, Fowler is the pure offensive force—although it helps having Hall to dish to—Gormley is the smart Streit type of two defenseman who always positions himself well and doesn’t make bad decisions with the puck while Gudbranson is the take no prisoners physical type. I had pushed Gormley before, but as I think about the sole likely top pairing guy in our system being 6’ 184 lbs and about the way our defense got pushed around this year—especially after Andy was traded, maybe Gudbranson is the guy we need.
I could see going for Nino or Emerson Etem IF Garth were able to swing a trade for a second first rounder and we had a crack at Dylan McIlrath. He is bigger and possibly has even more snarl than Gudbranson. He will probably go somewhere in the 15-25 area.
As a fan its easy for me to want the Islanders to pick the most exciting player available vrs. who really would be best for the team. In other words the fan in me would love to see them pick a wing who could score 40 goals instead of the steady yet unexciting defenseman. But ultimately I want whats best for the team. That probably means someone like Gudbranson. Connolly is the type who I think could score 40 goals but just as easily never make it as a full-time NHLer.
as I say
Connolly will be looked at VERY carefully at the Combine. If he passes muster, Columbus will likely draft him. If not, he would be a risky pick. I think we need to come out of the first round with a big physical top four defender. If we do not get another first rounder, then Gudbranson is probably the way to go.
Outside of Nash, Columbus has had such ugly luck. I have this irrational feeling that if they pick Connolly, it will end badly.
Lighthouse Hockey: Playing the NHL Lotto
there is just the chance that Connolly will be another Bossy
who everyone worries about physically and who blesses the team that picks him with a Hall of Fame career.
isn’t that an argument as to why they wouldn’t take the riskier pick though?
and BC (brett connolly i mean, not you BC) ;-)
gets to prove his worth starting today… uh oh to both the u.s. and canada
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
the argument is that either Columbus will pick him ahead of us
and if they don’t, with their pressing need of RW talent and him clearly being the most talented RW in this draft, you have to assume that there is a good reason.
As a precautionary measure, I became a fan of Nino Neiderreiter on Facebook.
If Nino or another player who may be ranked similarly is high on the list of players in the draft that the Islanders covet, I would not be surprised if the Isles trade down the 1st round pick, given Garth Snow’s drafting history.
What about 12-foot?
Yeah, even if I had a promise from the Kirils themselves that both would come over if I drafted Kabanov, I still couldn’t trust it. Not with the way KHL teams can muddy things up. (Okay, maybe in the 3rd round again…)
Lighthouse Hockey: Playing the NHL Lotto
My guess
Pittsburgh will take a flyer on him with their top pick on the chance that he will develop into Sid’s wingman. He may even be pulling this nonsense because he would prefer to play for a team like Pittsburgh to Florida or the Islanders.
A tradedown for Nino isn't realistic
After Tampa, which sits immediately behind us and has only two other picks—both third rounders—in the first three rounds, the next four teams—Carolina, Atlanta, Minnesota, and the Rangers—are all likely to pick forwards and Nino will surely be one of them. it’s pretty much a matter of deciding whether you want a defenseman like Gudbranson or a forward like Nino.
I have been higher on Nino than anybody I know of and still am. But some things have changed since I first expressed an interest in him. first, it has become painfully obvious that our defense needs an injection of fresh talent and especially big and physical defenders. We cannot rely on free agency to solve our problems on defense any more than we can on offense. I would like to hope Garth could land Volcenkhov, Martin, and / or Grebeshkov, but I cannot assume that he will. Even if he does, however, this team lacks a big, physical top pairing defenseman and needs one. We will likely have the chance to draft one in Gudbranson and should do so.
Second, the play of Blake Comeau toward the end of the season has been a revelation to me. I truly believe that he will emerge next season as a real quality power forward on our second line. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get 40, 50, or even 60 points. So getting a talented big man does not seem quite as critical as it did a few months ago. Getting Gudbranson seems the bigger priority.
That said, I would LOVE to see Nino in an Islander uniform. If Gudbranson is off the board when Garth picks, Nino or Etem Emerson are the likely next choices in my view. The other possibility would be getting a second first rounder. The main chance of that I can see lies with Chicago. They seem to be turning more and more to Antii Niemi as their #1 goaltender and relegating Cristobal Huet to a $5.6 million backup status. They will be facing a real cap crisis this summer and I believe that they will be searching for a way to unload Huet. The Islanders could take on Huet as well as Kris Versteeg for Biron and Schremp with the Hawks’ first round pick—which will be no lower than #24—in the mix. It would obviously be conditioned on Biron and Schremp signing with Chicago.
Even with such a deal, it would be tough to move up from #24 to #7 with our pick assets. Garth would probably need to make judicious use of our asset pool. LW-weak Boston at #17 might consider trading down for Joensuu and a pick. Defense-weak Dallas might consider Donovan and / Kessel and a pick for their #11. And then Carolina at #7 needs to add depth and might consider moving to #11 for a few extra picks.
Such a series of moves seem unlikely at best—but then so did the endrun last year. Garth would really ahve to be sold on Nino. A more likely scenario would be for Garth to make the Chicago trade and solidify our second line with Versteeg. Then he would make judicious use of our picks to grab guys like Teemu Pulkkinen (see my fanshot today), Victor Ohman, and Yasin Cisse. One or more of them is likely to develop into a star comparable to Nino.
isn’t his name Emerson Etem, not the other way? just curious
the isles can get fowler gudbranson or connelly at 5, this is a WIN whomever they choose… if they go quick with nino, it’s still good news… either at 5 or trading down to 8 to get him and bagging and extra 2nd rounder whom you can take yup, mr. whiny russian kabanov — why? becase he’s by far the most talented guy to be on the board after the top 15 are drafted so if trading back can get you nino and kabanov, i think you smile and call it a day, he has no khl ties yet, just a bad attitude – so did elway, so did randy moss, so does House M.D. – so what ?
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
niccce
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Apr 14, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I always figured it was “Bad Ass” but that they only printed it as “Bad Attitude” for us kids.
And for the mothers.
Lighthouse Hockey: Playing the NHL Lotto
Trade down won't likely work
A team trading up to five is likely looking for defense. As far as I can see, the only two teams near behind us who will be looking that way are Tampa at #6 with only two third round picks between that and the fourth round and no real reason to give either of them up to move one spot and Dallas at #11. A trade netting us Tomas Vincour is intriguing, but if I were Nieuwendyk, I might be trading DOWN AND trading Vincour to get more picks to develop depth at LW and D. And Atlanta in the #8 spot is likely to be looking at Etem (you were right about the name), Nino, and other likely prospects in this range. The same can be said of Carolina, Minnesota, and the Rangers.
Teemu P. was right up there with Kabanov as a likely top ten or even top five pick when the speculation started last year. He may have some one square real estate issues, but I do not believe that he is anything like the prima dona head case Kabanov seems to be. The ONLY thing that has really knocked him out of first round consideration by some is a wrist injury and his resultant no-show at the WJCs. I would take him over Kabanov any day and twice on Sundays.
i think kuznetsov goes before pulkinnen, he’s played great at the international level, and is off to a hot start again at the U18’s – he rose to #3 in the euro ranks and isn’t hurting his stock so far… only his size is a factor 5’11 174
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Pulkkinen is also a star in international competition
and he is also off to a hot start at the U-18s. He is the same height but a little stockier.
BTW
Our Ranger counterparts are all wild about Nino.
http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2010/4/23/1440290/2010-free-agency-and-draft
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
