Grading the Islanders: Sean Bergenheim, Finn of mystery
Sean Bergenheim played with everyone this year. Everyone. According to the NHL's play-by-play data as tabulated at Dobber Hockey, his most frequent line combo was with Frans Nielsen and Kyle Okposo -- a combo that comprised just 15% of his even strength shifts. Other frequent line combos included Richard Park and Doug Weight (12.75%), Nielsen and Jon Sim (9.41%), and Nielsen and Trent Hunter (8.54%).
(For reference, that late-season combo with John Tavares and Blake Comeau that produced a few goals -- four points for Bergenheim -- comprised just 6.74% of Bergie's 5-on-5 minutes, yet produced the most points.)
So, the annual question: Is Bergenheim a case of offensive potential unrealized, or offensive ability untapped? Or, just a versatile guy who can play up or down a line according to need?
In compiling notes for Bergenheim's 2009-10 report card, it's tempting just to rehash my notes from 2008-09. Namely:
On the surface, the Sean Bergenheim of summer 2009 is the same Sean Bergenheim of every summer since 2005: "We saw some flashes there. You think next year he'll be the beast we were hoping for?" ... Like all the youngsters, his ice time started to increase in the second half and he started to feel his place. Like all Islanders in 2008-09, his year was jammed up by injuries.
...
...the same old hit-everything, never-stop Bergenheim energy we've come to expect. And late in the season, displays of speed and improved finishing that tell us maybe, just maybe, the 2002 first-round pick will be what we hoped for...
Except that I think Bergenheim sort of is what most (realistically) hoped for: A decently talented wing who can produce with offensive linemates, but who can play smart two-way shut-down hockey on the PK and third line. He is a trusted penalty killer for Scott Gordon, and while that cuts down on his opportunity to pile up pretty counting numbers, it hardly makes him a disappointment. At his now-expiring $863,000 rate, it makes him a bargain -- unless you dock him for injury time missed.
Trusted or not, the question of how good of a penalty killer he is, of course, is an open question. Particularly when the Islanders' PK ranked 29th overall at 76.3%.
Even after a whole season, numbers-wise individual players' PK rates can be deceiving. So Bergenheim was at the high end in 5-on-4 goals against per 60 of a very similar group (with Josh Bailey, Blake Comeau, Frans Nielsen, Kyle Okposo). But he was at the low end of a similar cluster in shots allowed per 60. I don't see enough data there to think he was a problem more than anyone else. And there are a lot of moving parts for the PK that include coaching, forward aggressiveness, the Islanders small D and, naturally, the goalies.
Finally, though injuries again slowed him down in mid-winter, his PK time per game actually went down compared to last year, as Andy Hilbert's departure merely made room for Nielsen, Okposo and Comeau to pass him in PK minutes.
Left Wing Block
Before the season, a fantasy site asked me to pick two relatively unknown Islanders who might see significant point increases. I selected Jack Hillen (bravo!) and Sean Bergenheim (oof). In my defense, though, this was before I really understood who Matt Moulson was, so I expected Bergenheim to get a chance at the left wing minutes Mighty Mo got.
Could Bergenheim produce the way Moulson did? Well, no, probably not. But they're different players, and Bergenheim has shown offensive flashes (oh stop it, there I go again) when he's actually put in that position with, say, Tavares and someone. Otherwise, as discussed, he's a physical, smart, two-way player in the traditional Finnish mode. Right now he's one of the few bodies the Islanders have who "plays big," yet he's cut way back on bad penalties and, as mentioned last week, drew 10 more penalties than he committed, second only to Okposo
Restricted free agency negotiations are on the horizon, but at the right price that all describes a versatile asset worth keeping.
The Poem
(Again, you just have to grin and bear it or skim onward.)
Who are you?
Who is this Finn?
Goes the debate year after year
What ceiling caps you?
What player lies within?
...I need a line -- um, pass me a beer
Each summer
We wonder
Is this the Bergie we think we know?
If signed
Will stars align
Will next winter tell us so?
The Grade
Now, just because I think Bergenheim is still a piece worth keeping doesn't mean you do -- and it certainly doesn't mean you think he met expectations this season. That's why we vote, er grade, er vote-grade. To poll the collective and look back on it on a rainy day.
So turn your grade in, and lodge your praise, complaints or rationale in comments. Remember that you're voting based on how well he met your preseason expectations, with 10 being far above expectations and 1 being far below.
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Feel like I could churn up the same comments as last year. Predictabergie was about level with expectations, I guess I would have bumped from a 6 to a 7 if he had chosen to add to his versatility by playing on the right side much earlier than the very end of the season. It could have benefited both him and the team, but it’s something that the staff will have to look over in the offseason in determining whether he returns or not. I think it’ll be a loss to the team if he is let go, but I wouldn’t cry over it either.
I cannot wait for Rakh-tober.
Ah, I forgot to mention that reluctance to playing on the right side. Good point. That was weird.
I’m not sure I would weep if he were converted into some other kind of asset, but depending on his demands I think it’s worth keeping the devil you know. With his stats I doubt he can ask for much in RFA, but then again it is a Bergenheim contract negotiation, so…we’ve been there before.
Lighthouse Hockey: Playing the NHL Lotto
i think by now we all know bergie isnt gunna pot 20 goals a year for us, but i think the combo of him and franz on the same line is a pretty diesel shut down group. bergies been my favorite player for a while because ive always loved responsible fowards, but without the offensive production that everyone has hoped for, i wouldnt weep over him leaving either
Bergy is a capable third line winger
Could he become something more with more capable linemates? Dunno. But a good third line wing is valuable…just not the same value as a top six at contract time.
I think next seasons going to be it, he’s either going to break out or be Tambi 2.0 next season.
Mauldin Played for Columbus a few years ago, He has six career games.
See, I don’t think he’s in any danger of being Tamby 2.0 because he’s already shown he can do the third-line checker/PK guy thing.
Although if that previous tension with the coach re-emerges…
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My thought though is if Tamby leaves and Snow picks someone up via waivers or signing, Bergy might end up being the low man on the totem pool. Especially since they already know what he can and can’t do, but if they have an unknown quantity they have to give him a chance.
Mauldin Played for Columbus a few years ago, He has six career games.
Y'all are too kind
Bergie was invisible for stretches this year. He still takes bad penalties, and he wasn’t the potent scorer we expected. This was a major step back.
Fiya Minaya.
Being on the third line and missing 20 games to injury does invite a bit of invisibility though.
Penalty-wise, I saw only a handful that were bad this year. Among forwards, he took fewer non-coincidental minors than Sim, Okposo and Park and drew 10 more than he committed — a pretty nice profit for a physical winger.
I’m not making a case that he had a great year, though — just that he’s shown enough tools to be asked back.
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Sean Bergenheim
Long time listener,first time caller,or is that,long time reader,first time responder.First off I gotta say I am a fan of your site(way to state the obvious,I would’nt be here if I was’nt).It was Chris Botta of Islanders Point Blank that steered me in this direction.I gave Bergie a 4 on his report card because like Bergie himself I expected better numbers.I am definately a fan of his pinball mentality.I would like to see the Isles offer Sean a three year deal.I really believe that he puts too much pressure on himself to produce and with a little job security he would be able to reach his true potential.Such a deal would not be cost prohibitive and would be low risk high reward.Your thoughts?
Welcome, and thanks.
I’m always a fan of a three-year deal at an undermarket rate, if that’s included. He’s not in a position where he should ever be able to break the bank (unless I’m underestimating his market, which is quite possible), so a little long-term security might give him the comfort/confidence you suggest he might be lacking.
More importantly for me, he’s a known quantity, a reliable player. Hans und Franz probably said it below better than me, but you need guys like him come playoff time. So signing a guy for a few years during his RFA period beats overpaying for one in UFA or trading a prospect/pick for one at the deadline.
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Do we have some surplus of bigger physical forwards who can score that I don't know about?
Honestly, Dom, I don’t get why people think he is so expendable. Only way I can see not re-signing him is if his contract demands are unreasonable. Then you make a qualifying offer and see if you can trade him.
I suspect people look at the disappointing point total and think, “next” — which is a tempting case. But I see his physical side (something the Isles don’t have much of), his speed, and the fact he’s cost-controlled (again, barring some wild contract demands) and think he’s fit to keep.
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He is what He is
By now we know what Bergenheim is. Sure we’d expect a bit more scoring from an ex-1st rounder but I have two main points in my defense of Bergenheim (broken record time)
1 – If/When the Islanders are in the playoffs and serious contenders in a couple of years and Bergenheim is let go I guarantee people will be bitching about how we don’t have any players like him, energy, grinder-type guys. You need people like Bergenheim on a good team.
2 – Look at the people drafted after Bergenheim in 2002. The rest of the first round went like this: Ben Eager, Alex Steen, Cam Ward, Mike Morris, Jonas Johansson, Hannu Toivonen and Jim Slater. With the exception of Ward and maybe Steen, would you take any of those after Bergenheim? I wouldn’t. Eager is a headcase and a headache, Mike Morris played 26 games in the AHL and is out of hockey, Johansson isn’t even playing in the Elitserien but for Vasteras in the 2nd division Allsvenskan, Toivonen is on his 3rd organization and is at best an AHL level starter and Slater hasn’t been setting the world on firs in Atlanta. As for Steen and Ward, no way Ward was getting picked by the Isles there and they got their Steen-like 2-way center in the 3rd round with the Danish Love Machine. I think when you look at the pick in relation to who was taken immediately after him, Bergenheim stands up pretty well.
So for all you Bergie haters out there, how do you think the Avs feel about Johansson or the Sharks about Morris? Bergenheim is what he is, and we should be lucky to have that.
Obviously you're not a golfer
i will put my garth vader helmet on for this one
well the question then becomes, is 200 games and the 69 points that came with it a big enough sample of his skill set?
if so, then the question becomes, can figren, joensuu, rakhshani come up with 23 points a year on the 3rd line for this club to equal his production at a fraction of the cost?
the likely answers are yes and yes, so i think bergie is done as an isle
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Come on, Bob, really?
if so, then the question becomes, can figren, joensuu, rakhshani come up with 23 points a year on the 3rd line for this club to equal his production at a fraction of the cost?
When one of those guys proves that they can even do it at the AHL level I’ll be behind them as well… But… “at a fraction of the cost”…. come on man… those guys all have similar NHL salaries to Bergy (~$850K), and HE HAS PROVED HIMSELF to be a very good two way NHLer.
Where do you even get your numbers from:
GP=246 G=40 A=40 P=80 PIM=195 and he was -1 the last two years under the Guidance of Mr. Gordon… in a team that was last and 26th in the league.
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
Well said JP.
To elaborate on some of the points JP made, the score line is just one facet of an NHL player. He’s sound and responsible in the defensive zone, a good forechecker and is a good energy 3rd line winger. JJ might wind up as a bigger yet slower version of Bergenheim, but Rakhshani is not that type of player. First off he’s better off playing in the AHL getting 20 minutes a game next year than 10-12 minutes in the NHL. Second he’s more of a playmaker type compared to Bergenheim’s aggressive forecheck/grinder play.
By the way, there were only 4 forwards with better /- than Bergenheim: Hunter (3), Nielsen (4), in a brief sample size JJ (4) and Bailey (+5).
Forget the scoreline for a minute, if Bergenheim is gone next season all the small stuff he does WILL be missed. And all of you hating on Bergenheim, don’t complain when all that is missing next year.
Obviously you're not a golfer
by David Hanssen on Apr 22, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
only way I see him gone
is if his demands are unreasonable. Then you make a qualifying offer and trade him.
yes jp really
the #‘s are the last 3 seasons JP, and i’m trying to keep my personal opinion out of it, this is what i think garth has to think about when deciding on him
and yes jp, a fraction, he made 800+ did he not? the minimum will be 500k, he probably feels the 900k-1M range is about right, so for 1/2 (approx) his cost you can roll the dice on someone else…
i’m well aware of their being facets to a players game outside of scoring, we seem to be loaded with low-ceiling/high effort guys that may one day crack 20 goals… personally if you can get him at current cost, fine, but i dont agree with giving him a raise
i’m not saying i wouldn’t bring him back, and i’m not saying i dont want him back, what i’m saying is, garth used dustin kohn’s good play as a reason to deal sutton, so that thinking along with the cheapskate mentality on the isle brings me to the above scenario…
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Garth Brooks Stetson
“I’ve got friends in low places…” and that’s where they stay until they can play in my rodeo!
According to CAP CENTRAL
Figren gets $850K in the NHL… and has not made a case for being in the NHL anytime soon.
Joensuu gets $850K in the NHL… and has made some strides, but hasn’t shown enough to push his way into a FT NHL role yet. Jesse hasn’t shown special teams talents as far as I know. If we get a bigger, badder Bergy… then I’m on board… until then… I’m stuck on 20.
Rakhshani is totally different player… and will need time to find a professional identity.
Bergy MUST get a 10% raise as part of his qualifying offer (CBA). But he is also in the arbitration qualified RFA, so I believe that somebody else will determine his worth based on arguments form the team and bergie’s agent… unless they agree on a contract before that happens.
I hope that both Snow and Gordon see the value of a role player like Bergie… and NO, they are not a dime a dozen. Guys who show up 20 games a year are a dime a dozen… as far as I can tell Bergie brings it 82 (if he’s ever healthy for 82) games a year.
His roster spot may change next year, or be filled by a trargeted UFA next year… but if they need a guy to do what he does from this organization… IT’S BERGIETIME!
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
Robin Figren??
Rakhshani might score more than 23 points in a year yes but Bergenheim played most of the year on the Isles shutdown/checking line with Nielsen; Rakhshani is more of a top six forward so you are comparing apples to oranges. Joensuu might be able to step into that role but I wouldn’t expect him to produce much more than Bergenheim. And Figren? Come on. This guy had 7 points in 62 AHL games. He’s also pretty small at 5-11 176. I think Figren at this point can be considered a bust and if Bergenheim goes there are a few people ahead of him on the depth chart.
Robin the Boy Wonder
Figren has to be considered a non-entity as a prospect at this point. His previous status as a prospect was based on half a season for Edmonton in the WHL and 6 games at the WJC. Since the 07-08 season, he’s been abysmal. He couldn’t crack the line-up for Djurgardon in 08-09 and they had really tough competition there too with Fredrick Bremberg, Niklas Anger and Jimmie Olvestad as their top 3 forwards. He’s regressed more, if that was even possible, this season in Bridgeport where he was a healthy scratch for a solid quarter of the games. he’s got one year left on his entry level, if he doesn’t show something next year have fun back in Sweden, Robin.
Obviously you're not a golfer
by David Hanssen on Apr 22, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Tangetially
“Niklas Anger” is such a great hockey name. It’s almost like a comic-book editor typed up the birth certificate. His family name is really Smith.
Of course I'm an expert, I've seen Slap Shot eleven times!
Take away the last 5-10 games and he was horrible this season
I gave him a 4, it would have been a 2 if not for the last week of the season
I was calling for him to be benched, he had no impact fo rmonths. Then the last 7 games he put up 8 points. The 24 games prior he put up 2 points, 1G/1A.
08-09- he put up 8G/2A in the last 12 games
so the end of the season he gets hot. Bench him until Feb next season maybe
last 2 seasons- 19 games 17 points
other 103 games 30 points
by Rickfansince76 on Apr 22, 2010 11:30 AM EDT reply actions
Then the last 7 games he put up 8 points. The 24 games prior he put up 2 points, 1G/1A.
To me, that sure looked like a question of linemates. Play with Park and Weight, you get Park and Weight numbers. Play with Tavares and the strangely red-hot Comeau, you get … something much prettier.
Another wild card is he’s had some lengthy injuries right smack in the middle of the last two seasons. Not trying to make excuses for him, but recovery from those (didn’t he rush back sooner than expected this year?) is always an unknown variable we can’t really account for.
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Wow
I guess I don’t look at STATS that much, Ogilvie. I see a guy who gives his all on every shift, stands up for his teammates and himself… and is a class HOCKEY PLAYER…
If you counted the opportunities he CREATED for himself and others that weren’t finished (therefore not in YOUR STATS) he’d have had an awesome season. But he STILL DID THE WORK to make those things happen… and is still in his athletic prime.
You seem to evaluate talent like Milbury did come arbitration time (see Tommy Swiss Cheese)
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
Bergie actually had impact way earlier. He was one of their best players on the tough stretch there in November with 14 of 17 games on the road. True that he might need some weeks to get his game going, but this season he actually had it going way earlier than in March. But he got injured – and was missed quite a bit indeed. His absence was one of the reasons for the team’s struggles in December. No idea of course how fit he was once he returned, might easily have been fully fit indeed and might deserve some blame for not getting it together quicker again. But well, might also still have been hurt a bit, anyway needs always some weeks to get going and rather than benefiting from the Olympic break he probably suffered from that additional break. So, being someone who needs to play a lot to do well, this was a pretty tough season for him.
I’m not saying he was brilliant and the slow start as well as the pretty poor stretch in the middle were disappointing. But other than that he played well and given it wasn’t an easy year, he just about met expectations overall. And in my opinion will be valueable going forward indeed.
20 Something?
I’m trying to write this from my head… so if it’s been said before, I’ll apologize in advance.
I gave Bergy a 7 because my expectations for him were to work, and be successfull, in all phases of the game.
Offensively, Sean does what Okposo does with slightly less honed degree of skill, less size, but more mass, more agressive physical play and just as much (if not more) PASSION. They both have a problem finishing, but Bergy has shown in the past and even more so recently that given opportunity he can FINNISH.
Defensively. Sean has always seemed just as valuable in the defensive zone as in the offensive zone. He is quick, usually makes good decisions, and FINNISHES his checks. I think he is quite valuable in a FORECHECK-CENTRIC scheme, and has proven to be a top four PK forward.
Overall. Bergy has been used on the third, fourth and doghouse lines almost exclusively this year. When injuries healed and the talent base rose to mediocre he had the opporunity to play with more offensively creative and capable linemates. Though he provided energy and solid play all year, when he was utilized with JT and Comeau he was a smallish John Tonelli.
I’m a big Bergie fan… I hated that they [might have] shopped him at the deadline. I don’t expect him to be the regular second line LW next year, but I think he’ll do well when afforded those opportunities… and I hope that he continues to carry the load as he has since he’s been here. The reason I gave him a positive grade with respect to my expectations is because he was a little better than last year (though his numbers reflect the different roles he was placed in) and he cut down on the stupid penalties.
Bergs has been jacked around enough… he needs to be an Islander for a long time.
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
Forgot the poem...
There once was a man from Helsinki,
And some think his numbers are stinky,
But he battles each night, and is willing to fight,
He’ll be here a while, at least that’s what I thinky!
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
i like the past tense you used :-)
garth tells us all we need size,
so are the stats i see just lies?
it’s nice that he’s peppy and quick with his steppy
still i need more than “but he tries!”
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
I agree. If you focus solely on his numbers then yeah you will be dissapointed but Bergy brings so much more to the game. Sean also reminds me of Okposo except that they fill different roles for the team. I think if you put Bergy in the top six we would see a whole different side to his game but is more important for us in a checking role.
If the team lets Bergy go this offseason I won’t be heartbroken but I don’t agree with the Bergy bashing. I think he has played hard for us and definitely played an important role this season.
Bergenheim is one of the super talented guys who never found a way to consistently put the puck in the net, but made himself useful by channeling those talents into sound defensive play and I always liked him as a third line winger. He’s the guys I always point to when I argue that talent doesn’t always equal offensive success. Occasionally you get a glimpse of what he is capable of in the offensive zone, stick-handling through traffic and putting a laser of a shot on net. But I give him a ton of credit for becoming a useful checking forward, beats being a superstar AHLer who has no use on an NHL team. I think we should keep him if the price is right. Players like him are a dime a dozen but I like Dom’s ‘devil you know’ theory. And there is still that off chance that with the right linemates and ice-time he could break out for 25 goals. The potential and talent are absolutely there.
if bergy ever got 25 goals in a year i’d walk to the coli naked the next home game with a letter of apology to hand it personally to him
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
by bob l on Apr 23, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well hell, now I have a whole new reason to root for Bergie…
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it’s a long walk too, in the cold… i’ll have my castanza moment for sure
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Forget the Costanza moment… I’m thinking of a Paulie Walnuts moment… bare feet… in the colly men’s rooms… good god Bob, what have you gotten yourself into.
Dom,
we definitely need to save this thread and I will personally make Flash an offer he can’t refuse to make sure Bergy gets front line PP minutes if he has 20 with 10 games left.
On the other hand… if Bergy doesn’t have 15 next year I’ll send Bob a case of his favorite .. oh that’s right… sorry, forgot… well you name a fair price for the other side of this bet.
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
I was saying the talent is there for 25 goals. I’ve said all along in many different posts that there are intangibles that can’t be quantified that make goal scorers, If talent alone dictated scoring, Matt Moulson or John Tavares wouldn’t have 20 goals. Sean Bergenheim has talent in spades, he has just never found a scoring touch. But thats not to say it won’t ever happen for Sean, just probably not as an Islander. His role on this team will always be as checker first, and a supplemental scorer. But I think if given a shot someone on a top line with talented offensive guys; who knows?
I gave him an 8
Revolving line mates (mostly with non-scorers) + no PP time + less time on ice = what can you really expect number wise?…the fact that he only scored 1 less point than last year is amazing when you consider how the guy was constantly moved around and not given a true chance to play consistently with scoring linemates. I’ve complained about the way Gordon has mishandled Bergie all season so I won’t give him a poor rating based on his lower than expected scoring stats.
WOW
How low must your expectations have been if you think Bergie exceeded them?
I honestly think the kid would be insulted.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
He met the expectations I had when taking into account all the factors working against him stated above…(if that question was for me MetalChick)…however if he was given consistent linemates and more adequate ice time and he only put up 23 points then I probably would have given him a two. I won’t blame Bergie because Gordon (hates him) doesn’t use him the way I feel he should be used.
I meant it in general regarding the initial question of expectations, not for you specifically (but its fine that you responded lol)
I do not think Flash “hates” him at all. In fact it seemed whenever Bergie did have a good game he was there to praise it.
I really do think that if you asked Bergie himself he would rate himself lower, too.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Apr 24, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish he got more ink, more windows into his soul. That intermission or post-game interview toward the end of the season, he showed clear frustration that his production picked up so late. I agree — no matter what line he plays on, I’m sure he expects more numbers out of himself.
Lighthouse Hockey: Playing the NHL Lotto
no matter what line he plays on, I’m sure he expects more numbers out of himself.
Right!
If he WAS satisfied with this past season, Id show him the door myself and delete his number from Garths call phone. The fact that he is not satisfied with this past season is a primary saving grace and one of the main reasons Id be OK with him continuing here on the Islanders.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Apr 25, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Like a lot of people on this thread
I see him as having met expectations . His production isn’t quite what you would like, but he’s compensated with other parts of his game. It would be nice for him to be a 20-20-40 guy-and that’s about all you can reasonably expect from him in my view. If this team is relying on a third line winger for an important part of its offense, it has bigger problems than whether said winger is given a roster spot. To me, he’s like the outfielder who is in a slump with his bat but keeps his place in the lineup because he plays the outfield well.

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