Evening Reading: On goaltending and its worth
by Dominik on Mar 8, 2010 6:30 PM EST
in Big Picture Musings
109 comments
I'm a believer -- and have been for a while -- that the market for NHL goaltending has become flooded, which is why Martin Biron didn't get the money he wanted last summer, and Biron and others did not move at this trade deadline in anything but random backup swaps. In the cap world, there are good Ken Holland-esque arguments that unless you have [insert your "He's the bomb!" elite goalie of choice] in the top five or so, then it may not be worth your money to pay up for high dollar and long term. Get your Semyon Varlamov (or Cam Ward 2006, or Patrick Roy 1986) on and ride that pony to the land where rookies and adequate vets (Oz-zie, Oz-zie) become Cup winners.
Voila, your bargain youngster has earned his Playoff Tested badge.
But, well, there is always a psychological aspect to the value of goaltending: Toss aside numbers and "outperforming his contract" for the moment and think about the toll figuring out which bargain goalie you can trust takes on the locker room, the management, and the fans and media. That toll, as we've seen in Chicago all season long, creates some misery that, frankly, is not fun and leads to suspicion of a ripple effect on even an elite roster.
There is also the question of "playoff goalie" mythology which, hokie as it may be, is nonetheless on the lips of countless fans, media, players, coaches and hockey people. If the right people including the players on the ice believe in it, then it can be a real factor in their actions at crunch time -- a factor that is divorced from the urge to compartmentalize players and actions into numeric widgets. (
Pop quiz:
Which goalie's teammate is more motivated to put his body on the line with that extra push in pivotal moments when it's worn down from three weeks of playoffs -- Roberto Luongo, or Cristobal Huet?We've seen this year how even player perception of how the goalie situation is handled can have an effect. (Caveat: All misery is instantly erased by the magic elixir known as "winning.") Then you have Tim Thomas, peaking with an unbelievable year last year, earning a big-money deal ... and promptly losing the starter role to the up-and-comer this season.
The lottery-bound Islanders right now are in the position where they can maybe afford two more losses before their playoff chances are rendered mathematically as well as realistically impossible. So this goalie topic is not urgent at the moment. And of course, whatever happens with Rick DiPietro, we're still a ways off from ... "resolution," we'll call it.
But with the above links as context, I'm curious: If you took the Great Unknown DiPietro Factor out of the equation tomorrow, then beginning this summer which direction would you take with the Islanders' goalie portfolio? Ride Roloson's deal out with a young backup and evaluate the system after that? Sign a bigger free agent this summer or in 2011 to be the partner and/or successor to Roloson? Count on a Nordic goalie prospect developing, or one of the healthy goalies currently in AHL Bridgeport?
Factors or stances that might affect your view include:
- Maybe you say, "Don't give me this cost-per-win talk -- I want a 'money' goalie no matter what his price." Spare me the Huet drama.
- Maybe: "I'd take a Turco or Nabokov -- if he, well, if he made a lot less money."
- There is not a high-money signature starter out there (signed or unsigned) who doesn't have a few "crunch time" warts on his resume. Not one.
- Any number of prospects are in the Islanders' system, from Koskinen to Poulin and all ages in between. The pain (and the reason GMs overpay for "proven" goaltending) is in the process of finding out which one can excel at this level.
- On the one hand you can point to us living the "untested goalie" experience with Yann Danis and Joey MacDonald last season. On the other hand, they each had underlying AHL numbers that indicated they would not be Varlamovs at the NHL level.
And a few choice bits from Elliotte Friedman's bits column today to get your juices going:
10) Strongly believe there was one, possibly two teams who were willing to take Cristobal Huet from Chicago. (Should clarify: I’m more certain about one than the other.) But the Blackhawks decided to stand pat, much to the surprise of other GMs. Unloading Huet’s contract (two years remaining, $5.625 million cap hit) would have cost at least a first-rounder and an established player. (I know you’re going to ask, but I’d be guessing on whom. The source wouldn’t tell me.)
11) Why did Chicago decline? Scotty Bowman believes strongly in the Detroit model: If you don’t have a top-three goalie, you protect him with great team defence and puck possession. The Blackhawks – disciplined and talented – have a shot. But, to duplicate the Red Wings’ success, they will have to show two things: their forwards are as committed to back pressure as Detroit’s and their defensive corps is as good. As great as the Blackhawks look, we’re talking Lidstrom/Rafalski/Kronwall/Stuart here. What a tough, tough call to make.
... 29) [referring to the Islanders' recent anonymous comment drama] Of course, this is why Gary Bettman tried everything shy of felony kidnapping to prevent Charles Wang from signing DiPietro to that 15-year deal.
You might feel very strongly (for or against) some of these assumptions, or you might feel like there are a lot of viable options, particularly for a club that needs some contracts just to get over the cap floor (ah, but in a few years the top picks' next contracts mean that won't be an issue). That's why I'd like you to belly up to the bar and toss these possibilities around.
Note: I understand there are varying opinions and bets on DiPietro's future, but since he's a vast unknown at this point, for the purposes of this exercise pretend he's out of the equation. I'm more interested in hearing people's general stance on the value of goaltending and how to approach it, rather than rehashing everyone's opinion on DiPietro.
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Heck no to option number 3
Any significant money spent ought to go toward some skaters, particularly d-men. The goaltending situation is hardly ideal but is soooo not the Isles’ biggest problem.
Milburyitis
definition: The tendency among really clueless NHL general managers to draft a promising player—especially a goaltender—with a great deal of fanfare (eg “Here’s our guy!” “Let me introduce you to our franchise goaltender of the future!” etc etc) and then decide—before you can say Roberto Luongo—that he’s not our guy and we need a new guy.
That’s with EVERY position, not just goaltender. I mean he was building up the 4 picks in the 99 draft like we were going to be stanley cup fianlists by 02
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
interesting tidbit
With the Ziggy Palffy trade. Supposedly Bettman intervened and forced the Kings to put Jokinen into the trade. That means the original deal was Palffy, Smolinski, Cousineau and a 4th rounder for Green, Biron and a first rounder (Payat)
wow, just wow.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
the focus was on goaltender though
from the other Potvin to Roberto to DP. And each time we’d lose what could have been important pieces of a championship core. That might have been part of the reason Wang decided to lock DP in.
I guess we could all agree we were thinking along the same line as Dom did in his writings. The Islanders organization is so quiet about Rick DiPietro that no one knows if he will ever play again. I know that may be an extreme view, but until we know otherwise, that is what some people think.
I like Roloson. I think he is stable enough to keep on playing with the Isles’ kids. Is he perfect? Who is? Also alot depends on what the team does between the draft and free agency. There aren’t a lot of games left, so expect Rolo to play the majority, with Biron playing a few nights.
Lets hope we can keep the games tight and not have too many blowouts. Starting with the Philly game, the Isles still have a chance at a playoff spot. Or they can tank and get us a better draft pick. One way or the other, keep your fingers crossed.
Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!!
Ricky DiPietro
I know you said Ricky’s future is uncertain, and it very much is. Here’s the question: When does the organization end the insanity and admit he’s done?
Let’s be honest, every time he is hurt, he comes back for less than 10 games and is reinjured. How long can the fanbase, and even the organization itself, play this game of will he or won’t he play?
I think the anonymous quotes were cowardly and ridiculous (they’re losing because they’re taking periods off and starting slow, and they’re not that good, etc), but it does present an important point, like Dom said: the goalie issue is extremely important in a locker room. Maybe some guys feel for Marty, from what I understand he’s aces in the locker room. Maybe there’s a bigger issue: the guys just don’t like Ricky.
Let me explain. Ricky seems like a really good guy. A little cocky cocky as hell, but a decent guy. Maybe guys resent the fact that he’s always being rushed back. Maybe guys resent that fact that they didn’t get a 15 year deal, and an unlimited number of chances to take back his job. Maybe guys are comparing Ricky’s situation (constantly injured and always getting a chance) to Jeff Tambellini’s (always helathy and never really getting the look he deserves – regardless of how good he really is).
This was a little long and rambling, sorry, but just something to think about. I like Ricky and would love to see him succeed, but when do we pull the plug? Especially with all the secrecy around him.
All that being said…I think we ride Rolo as long as we can, and hope that at least one of the young guys can help us next year. Munroe/Lawson should back up next year. If we make a free agent splash (big if), then they should be well protected up front, and may be able to score.
What did you do lol? Now EVERYTHING is in italics lol!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 9, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
My guess is that he didn’t close the Italics, and SB never set it up so that posts either automatically close all open formatting or that posts can only effect themselves. I mean the whole page is in Italics now.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
And I can’t edit his comment (which, all things considered, I guess is a good thing. Mwahahaha, the power.).
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
DP has to decide to retire
his contract is pretty much ironclad. Mikko’s injury probably means Garth won’t be able to count on him as backup right away. I wouldn’t invest a lot in a FA goalie with the talent we have in Bridgeport.
I can't figure out what happened with the italics either
Strange, this italics bug.
I think questions about the DP locker room dynamic are valid. A few people brought that up here earlier in the season before he came back, and I probably didn’t give it enough weight. It did seem from many reports and videos that he had come back more humble and with a grounded perspective, so in that sense he’s done what he can.
Everyone says he should retire, but if I was 28, picked to be the franchise cornerstone, and the bearer of a contract that gets the organization so much flak, I’m pretty sure I’d exhaust every option before throwing in the towel. He’s still not even a year clear of a proper “rehab,” which is a timeframe when we don’t expect skaters to be back to form, much less butterfly goalies.
I’m not saying retirement isn’t a very possible scenario, just that it’s easier said than done.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Test
Only a de-italic test.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
With DiPietro out of the equation, I think going after a guy like Ellis would be a good bet, provided he slides in at around Roloson money (roughly $3.0 M or so). Roloson has a year left on his contract and then you have a veteran netminder to plug that hole and take up the same amount of cap space. The Isles seem to have a lot of RFA’s hitting free agency within the next two years, but they have a lot of space as well— if two prospects emerge in 2011-2012, there will be an opportunity to flip one of them or Ellis himself for a decent deadline return.
If I’m Garth Snow, 2-3 years @ roughly $3 M per year for Ellis is definitely something I consider.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
the priorities in FA are
1) Getting 1-2 of the best physical defensemen we can
and
2) Getting at least one big physical forward with some talent
We have several guys in Bridgeport who would make decent backups.
I think we already got some big fowards in Martin and joensuu and maybe a guy in the draft but maybe getting a more experienced big guys would help.
Martin and Joensuu are barely NHL-ready
We need a veteran big man with some game. My preference would be Torres who has the added draw of returning one of the sheep to the fold. It is unlikely that any of our defensive prospects will be ready for next season. In any event, we will need a veteran to step into Andy’s skates and possibly another if [when] Martinek goes down. Ideally one would be Volcenkov and would, along with Streit, form the core around whom the defense could be built. Another could be a defenseman of lesser stature with a 1-2 year deal who could provide depth until our prospects are ready.
Thanks, Plank
The Isles seem to have a lot of RFA’s hitting free agency within the next two years, but they have a lot of space as well
The weird thing with the Isles is we have no idea where their real cap is. Right now, their budget is practically the salary cap floor (even that is buyout- and bonus-aided).
So while they have the cap space to spend on a goalie, it’s not clear if they have the budget to. If we’re dividing up the existing committed money, I might be inclined to go cheap for Roloson’s partner this summer, then see what’s available in 2011.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Spare Tire Syndrome
If they go out and sign another 1A goaltender they are just going to try to buy another draft pick. They may have a servicable young goalie in the mix at bridgeport, and they’ll have two or three pushing their way up the ranks in 2011-12. You might as well see if at least one of them can be trusted on the drive to grandma’s house. Otherwise you’re gonna get stuck in the middle of Starrett City with no spare and some guy with no vowels in his name wanting $500 to tow you to April.
On one note I’d like to know of a comparable athlete who spent 90% of two seasons out with injuries that required 4 surgeries on the positions most crucial joints (hip, hip, KneeX2), and came back to a long or even productive career……….
On another other note: does anyone know the consequence to the cap and team payroll if DP: voluntarily retires, is forced to retire due to injuries, or is declared medically unfit by the team etc etc. and could this be a driving force in the DP saga?
Lastly does “prospects” include a goalie taken with this years lottery pick? -LOL
I think if he retires, the cap hit is taken off
I think there is an insurance policy that is a factor.
it would be the same as Brett Lindros. The insurance policy would pay a majority of the contract (With Brett it was 90%) and the Islanders would pay whatevers left.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
The cap hit is removed
But one of the issues with 15-year contract was insuring it. Sports contracts usually don’t get insured beyond something like five years, so that would be a mess — and a disincentive for DiPietro to retire, actually.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I was wondering why EVERYTHING was in Italics. It appears that someone didn’t close their italics, so let me try and see if that fixes it. If these aren’t back to normal, there’s nothing I can do.
I think the Islanders are pretty stocked on Goalies. Now I’m not sure what the organization thinks of Munroe or Lawson, but they should get at least one game this season. They have both been outstanding in the AHL and are the top duo in the league (both are in the top ten). Other then those two we still have Kikkosen and Nilsson no matter how far away they might be.
I think last years draft Snow was looking at the possibility of DiPietro’s career being over and that explains those two draft picks.
I’m also never high on signing an FA goalie. The teams young, you might as well continue building on youth.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
Really good article again Dom
Should have taken your advice though and read it at night. A little long for my morning read and now I’ll be late for work, but I had to get through it all.l
Okay, yes, we have a goalie problem. And I like your angle of taking Rick out of the equation. But seriously, you can’t tell the guy to retire if he doesn’t know if he needs to. He comes back when the doctors and everyone else tell him he can. He works with his goalie coach and everything seems pretty good. Then his knee swells up during the break. I have a feeling we will see another DiPietro come back attempt next season as well.
The kid really was a world-class goalie at one point. He is still young and it would be really difficult to tell him we’ve given up on you. Besides, they can’t HE has to decide to retire and I believe according to the contract language, there has to be medical reasons to retire. It’s a LOT of insurance. The insurance company wanted to be protected too!
As far as the length of his contract — well… like a Bonus Buy at Costco when you buy a 122 pc case of paper towels and then have no place to store them, so you store them in the garage and they turn to mold in a few months … well… it was a good idea at the time…
And Rick’s is not the only pathetically long contract in the NHL, but he is the first. He sure as hell ain’t the last — until the GM’s and the NHLPA rule on it!
www.7thwoman.blogspot.com Updated almost as often as PointBlank, but not quite.
Sorry I messed with your a.m. drill. ;)
Yeah, I know we’ve got … well we have no answer on DP until who knows (plays again this season? Doesn’t but gets rest over the summer for next?). One thing I know is the contract gives him time to still be in the picture.
But even more than planning for possible life without DP, I really was just interested in people’s opinions on the best goalie strategy, period — honest!
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
But seriously, you can’t tell the guy to retire if he doesn’t know if he needs to. He comes back when the doctors and everyone else tell him he can. He works with his goalie coach and everything seems pretty good. Then his knee swells up during the break. I have a feeling we will see another DiPietro come back attempt next season as well.
I think you’re quite right with all of this. We can want what’s easy for us and the Islanders, but this tale probably has many more chapters.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Okay, yes, we have a goalie problem. And I like your angle of taking Rick out of the equation. But seriously, you can’t tell the guy to retire if he doesn’t know if he needs to. He comes back when the doctors and everyone else tell him he can. He works with his goalie coach and everything seems pretty good. Then his knee swells up during the break. I have a feeling we will see another DiPietro come back attempt next season as well.
The kid really was a world-class goalie at one point. He is still young and it would be really difficult to tell him we’ve given up on you. Besides, they can’t HE has to decide to retire and I believe according to the contract language, there has to be medical reasons to retire.
Well put!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 9, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
time to figure out a way out of the DP drama
I am tired of waiting for him to be healthy. He is fragile, a porcelin doll and as long as we pin our hopes on him we are going to be stuck. I think we make Roloson our #1, we should have kept him there is January. If DP is healthy he becomes the richest #2 ever, if he is not we bring up Lawson as our #2 and keep developing Goalies at Bridgeport.
a Broduer or Luongo or Miller comes along once in awhile if you rlucky, and we were with Luongo and traded him. DP had a bright future, and should have been signed to a 4 year deal instead of 15. He has become totally undependable due to injury. it sucks for him but this team needs to forget about him as the future, he is the past. If somehow he emerges healthy after being our back-up for the next 3-4 years, then play him.
I am so goddamn sick of hearing the name Luongo I cant even tell you. People need to GET THE **** OVER IT.
As far as DiPietro being pissed on for speaking up if his knee hurts, what the hell do some of you WANT? We bitched when he shut up and played hurt, now we are going to bitch when he comes out and tells the Drs and coaches when things arent 100%? Give me a BREAK.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
I am so goddamn sick of hearing the name Luongo I cant even tell you. People need to GET THE **** OVER IT.
Heheheheheh. I’m loving this quote. Do you offer bumper stickers and t-shirts?
Regarding the rest… as you have no doubt observed, there’s a significant minority of our fellow Isles fans who are slowly turning into basket cases. You could get whiplash watching these folks jumping on and off the bandwagon with every shift. RDP, his fleeting health, and his enduring contract are just one more thing to flip out about. When the time comes to finally burn Garth Snow alive, no doubt the fans will escort him to the bonfire in a sedan chair, feeding him grapes.
I’m sorry if this sounds a little snarky, but as you say, enough is enough. I really think there are a few of these folks who would actually be happy if the team folded or moved, just so they can revel in how right they were about Gordon/Snow/Wang/ (fill in the blank). That drives me crazy. You don’t have to be a cockeyed optimist, but talking down every move before we even know if they work? Insisting that the team go with youth and then get mad because there aren’t enough vets? Bitch about toughness then bitch about Gillies in tonight’s game? Isles Country needs a collective deep, calm breath.
Of course I'm an expert, I've seen Slap Shot eleven times!
by mikb on Mar 9, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I really think there are a few of these folks who would actually be happy if the team folded or moved, just so they can revel in how right they were about Gordon/Snow/Wang/ (fill in the blank)
Feels like there is a segment that seems to enjoy the outright bitching and “told ya so”s and the like more than anything (don’t think I’ve seen it much here though). Everybody needs to fire off a rant every now and then — but relentless burning of the village is, I don’t know, it just makes me wonder what’s the point of still following?
This veers off topic a bit, but there was a comment the other day — the person’s first comment, with no profile or sig or history or anything to clue us in on what they’re about — that was basically a firebombing of anything and everything Islanders: Fellow fans, DP, Wang, Snow, the young prospects, everything. It was belligerent and random raving (and poorly written) to the point that I honestly thought it was a Rangers troll. Pressed for time, I “hid” it (not deleted it) for later review, but before I got a chance to check into it, the person emailed me and called me every name under the sun.
I don’t delete comments other than spam/trolling/flaming, but at that point I felt no need to reinstate it. I’ve simply no obligation to provide an outhouse for people who’s only contribution is to take out their rage in an online forum. I welcome repeat commenters getting things off their chest when the need arises, but you don’t walk into a house and make your first statement a complaint about the wine, the decor and the food, you know?
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I dig you, Dom
The worst is the temptation to get sucked into this huge flame war just because it frustrates me. Funny, then I get frustrated because they got to me. (Learning, im doin it rong.) Worse, it just hastens the demise of actual conversation in the combox.
Everybody needs to fire off a rant every now and then — but relentless burning of the village is, I don’t know, it just makes me wonder what’s the point of still following?
Exactly! Poor Botta. I’m afraid he’ll just give up on Point Blank at the end of the year because of the constant hating on everything Islander in the combox. Maybe half of those comments now are of the “what a joke this franchise is” variety.
Of course I'm an expert, I've seen Slap Shot eleven times!
The worst is the temptation to get sucked into this huge flame war just because it frustrates me.
Been there, done that lol. Some boards thats just the tone of the very board itself- cynical to the very core, and if you take ANY positives out of anything, you are obviously delusional becaused everything sucks, blah blah blah.
Poor Botta. I’m afraid he’ll just give up on Point Blank at the end of the year because of the constant hating on everything Islander in the combox. Maybe half of those comments now are of the "what a joke this franchise is" variety
CB himself set the tone in his comments. He did a great job squelching the Rangers trolls for the most part, but he seems to relish being a spot for unbelievably cynical Isles fans. Now they complain for the sake of it, and I find that so- well, dumb. He could say so if he felt that way, but he chooses not to. Nothing wrong with that choice, its his to make, but that decision makes me shy away from feeling bad for him.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 10, 2010 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
The Winning streak seemed to get everyone out of the woodwork just in time for the streak to end and a losing streak to begin.
Hell my first post was a rant about our goaltending situation last year. Mostly because there was no reason not to keep around Dubie. If Biron moves to another team during the offseason, that means we haven’t had the same main backup goalie for two seasons since the Strike. Sometimes its good to keep around a backup for more then one season, you never know when they might shine (cough Leighton cough).
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
The Winning streak seemed to get everyone out of the woodwork just in time for the streak to end and a losing streak to begin.
So true, that! Makes me picture the steps up the ladder we’ll encounter: First legit playoff threat (followed by sky is falling upon next losing streak); First actual playoff entrance (followed by sky is falling at first playoff loss); and on and on. We do suffer from a collective battered fan syndrome, I suppose.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I’ll be happy about getting back to the playoffs, but like any Islander fan, I’ll be somewhat disappointed if we lose in the first round again. Even if we’re an 8th seed and its the 1st seed. I just want us to win another playoff series before the 20th anniversary of 93
Obviously it will be great if this team with youth makes the playoffs next year. We’d know we were taking steps forward. Just the nearly 20 years without a playoff series win is a bit tough.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
we should be able to do that, if not next year, then in 2011-12
and be a contender in 2012-13….as in at least modestly serious Cup contender meaning we go past the first round and maybe the second.
My Apologizes, but its just that Luongo has been my favorite goalie since we drafted him. It was so heart breaking when he got traded. I know I tend to bring him up, but I really can’t help it.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
My being sick of hearing about him isnt because of you, webbard.
Its just the past- and its the people who hold the current organization accountable for what happened when they had nothing to do with this organization who I want to shake back to reality.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 10, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
DP has become a distraction to the team. The team is responsible for this unfortunate circumstance. The most asked question when he was signed to that albatross deal was, "what if he gets hurt in the 15 years?" Now all the proponents of the deal are coming out and saying it would have been a good deal if… The reason that this becomes such a huge deal is because DP had already had a penchant for injury and then the Isles signed him to an unprecedented deal. It was nice to see that Wang wanted to hold on to him for life but now everyone can point to the Yashin deal and say, "didn’t you learn from that last debacle?" It is tough because you know Wang wants to build a team but he keeps going about it in a way that makes business sense and not hockey sense. Signing anyone to a contract over 5 years and guess what, you are going to suffer the consequences for that person’s health if they are unable to perform a decent percentage of that contract. Granted DP’s contract is not that old but when you have been out more than you have been in since signing the thing, it is not hard to see why fans are restless. However, some of that, weather most fans are willing to admit it or not, is due to the horrible move made by Milbury in the first place. Sure DP may be a great goalie but when people see Luongo healthy and productive to compare that to DP who is questionable at best…that makes a fan angry. Is that Snow’s fault? Definitely not but he is stuck with the situation.
Up until DP got hurt it seemed that we had goaltending squared away and that we could begin the other parts of the "rebuild." However then our only position that seemed to be solidified went down and the Isles choose to play the shell game with the fans because they were hogtied by a 15 year contract. If they went out looking for a new goalie that would unearth even more questions about DP and their decision to create a ludicrous contract. If they left it alone, perhaps DP would become healthy enough to play again and then we are back on track. Well Snow did what he could at the draft in choosing 2 new goalie prospects, which will take time to develop. Now all the Isles have to do is admit that that they made a mistake in the 15 year contract and find a way to move on. Rick may turn out to be great goalie but every time he gets hurt he hurts the Isles fan base. Other than pride on the part of a business man I can not see why the Isles would choose to keep working Ricky back into the lineup after this year. The hardest part about this drama is that if he was signed to a 5 year deal the Isles wouldn’t feel so obliged to keep him in the lineup. His worth to the team is skewed at the moment due to a set of handcuffs that the Isles gave him that can’t be unlocked for another 12 years.
It seems that Snow is doing what he can but unfortunately, in DP’s case, he will always be playing makeup with the fans due to the shell game that he played last year because he is tied to a 15 year deal.
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
It really is an issue of their own making. I had many philosophical reasons for opposing the deal, but one of them was doing it with your GOALTENDER. A franchise forward goes down, you can work around his contract/presence as he fades. But the goalie is a different position, with only two slots (heh, usually), only one of which is in use. Just poor policy. I know no one could talk Wang out of it, but I’d love to know how much Snow tried.
The reason that this becomes such a huge deal is because DP had already had a penchant for injury and then the Isles signed him to an unprecedented deal.
I think this part is wrong though, actually. His real injuries didn’t start until after the contract was signed. (I guess he had one concussion and a bruised knee once before that, but nothing that would imply an injury-prone nature — though in my book, butterfly goaltending inherently implies future injuries.)
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Perhaps I should have said that his ability to carry through an entire season was not fully tested?
That concussion he took was from a kick to the head. How many goalies have received a concussion while wearing the cage? The statistics on that alone should have lent way to reason that perhaps there needs to be a little further evaluation of his ability to stay healthy before tossing him the keys to the franchise.
I agree with your bias of the butterfly style but part of me believes that his overly agressive nature, which is what the franchise drafted him for (that and being a native of the New England area) should have been enough to nix that deal. However, this is probably water under the bridge soon.
As for now my opinion is to have Rollie continue his game until he decides that he can’t/won’t play with the Isles any longer or we get some sweetheart trade deal. Snow did the right thing in drafting a pair of young goalies. Hopefully Rollie lasts long enough to let them get enough expereince to come to the big club. In that time DP should be playing in the minors if he plays at all. That would be less of a distraction to the Isles and end that 3 headed monster. If he can last to the end of the season without losing too much time, then you move him back up. Otherwise, we will have more goalie excuses from the players and discontent brewing in the locker room of a team that has a hard enough time attracting free agents/retaining players.
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
Yeah, the aggressive nature for sure. And I should have added “relies on acrobatics” to the butterfly equation. Essentially, if you’re betting long-term on a goalie’s health, bet on one who doesn’t like to insert himself in the play and wander, and whose style is more contained. Hate to bring up Miller since he’s the current gold standard anyway, but that style is safer — and even he’s had his share of injuries.
Jeez, talking about this always puts me in a foul mood.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
When RDP signed, he had just come off two consecutive years of 50 and then 63 games played, and was about to have two more at 60+. He was an Olympian, and about to be an All-Star. He hadn’t yet shown himself to be held together with saran wrap and twistie ties.
Of course I'm an expert, I've seen Slap Shot eleven times!
Yep. Heh, would’ve been a good candidate for a 4- or 6-year deal, even. (I hate belaboring the point because there’s nothing to be done about it now … it’s just wild how different the current context would be now if it were a “normal” deal.)
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
…who sustained a concusion from a kick to the head. You would think that Brett Lindros would have served as a beacon of what you shouldn’t offer to players with concussions. If a Sutton would have jumped in the air and landed with a knee to his head I could have understood a concussion to him. However, a guy tripped over his head and he got a concussion. That is a big difference. Olympian or not, that is pretty weak. This is all aside from the silliness of a 15 year deal.
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
I’d have to see the highlight of his concussion, but suffering his concussion from a random kick to the head is quite different from Lindros who never learned to skate with his head up. A problem that his brother suffered from too.
Supposedly there were reports the Islanders ignored from Brett’s OHL coach saying he wasn’t ready to skate on an NHL level.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
Brett also had an undisclosed history of concussions in the minors. However, I still stand by my statement of suffering a concussion from what appeared to be a routine scramble (if there is anything routine about a goalie scramble…I guess Rick would be the most likely candidate to receive a rating of routine seeing how he loves to roam and sometimes turns it over while away from the net.)
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
by metalcoconut on Mar 10, 2010 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
my vote...
was for
Rely on Roloson + young backup for 2010-11, then evaluate prospects for 11-12.
although i’m beginning to think going with 6 skaters all game may be more entertaining (well not all game, i mean, we can put a goalie in to kill penalties i guess)
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
In the end, we will have to wait DP out
My guess is that he either will not play again or he will play long enough to realize that he cannot. I was really hopeful that he would be able to come back and finally begin the great career he was drafted to have. That does not appear to be in the cards. I was also hopeful that Mikko would be able to get in a few games at the end of the season, but that also appears unlikely. Hopefully one of our Bridgeport crew can serve as Roly’s backup until Mikko is 100% NHL-ready and hopefully Mikko can assume the role of #1 in 2011-12.
There is more to the Isles goalie prospects than Koskinen.
Kevin Poulin, for example.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 9, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
They drafted Mikko to be the guy
he should be the guy until he shows he cannot be. If Poulin is made backup to Roly and shows better than Mikko, they can reconsider. I, for one, want no part of another Milburyesque Goalie-go-round.
They drafted Mikko to be the guy. He should be the guy until he shows he cannot be.
Whoa, I don’t support (or maybe I don’t understand?) that stance at all. Goalies are too undeveloped when they’re drafted (even at Mikko’s age) to declare anyone “the guy.” Put them all in the system and see who rises to the top — that’s the only way to go about it. The position by definition provides few job opportunities, so I say you better earn your shot and not … be pre-ordained … the way a former GM {shudders} used to handle it.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
the former GM did the reverse
he pre-ordained somebody until he got tired of him and then went with someone else. I think they drafted Mikko to be the number one. Now it may be that while he is getting ready Poulin or somebody else convincingly demonstrates that they are more deserving. I say we cross that bridge when we come to it and we haven’t come to it yet.
Given that we haven’t had a backup goalie last more then 1 season since the Strike, I think the drafting of goalies last year was to get a solid #2 guy, and if they get lucky one of them can take over as starter.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
the guy they wanted and spent the very valuable first pick of the second day on
was Mikko and they were not talking about him as just another prospect. It was clear from the way they spoke of him that he was the guy going forward. And I have to believe that they knew back then that there was a better than even chance that DP would not make it and that Mikko would be expected to eventually be much more than a backup. That’s not to say that Poulin or somebody else might really shine at the NHL level and they would have to reconsider. Certainly Mikko’s injury complicates the picture. But for the injury, he might be getting time now spelling Roly and might be the backup next year looking forward to being the #1 in 2011-12. The injury may give Poulin and others a shot. They will have a chance to shine and show that they deserve to be on the top of the heap ahead of Mikko. I do not believe the Isles should consider bringing in a veteran FA unless none of the guys in Bridgeport are worthy—and that does not seem to be the case.
Whaa-Whaa-WHAT?
They drafted Mikko to be the guy he should be the guy until he shows he cannot be.
Says who? Where in the world did this notion come from???
Why is Poulin- who has been healthier and quite impressive- destined to serve behind the others while Mikko gets some kind of a Pharaohlike entitlement to rule the goalie kingdom?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 9, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
FINALLY, we get to see what TMC looks like,
and,
like a streaking bailey not realizing JT tried to stickhandle into the zone,
i was WAAAAAAAY OFFFFF!!!
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
You love my up-do.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 9, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Might get me in trouble...
I’ll admit something, I always forget that TMC is female. I always forget that its a picture of Okposo in her avatar.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
LOL- so having a picture of Okposo in my avatar gives my gender away, not the fact that my name is TheMetalChick lol?
Well um, OK… maybe the fact that Kyle just HAPPENS to be cuddling a teddy bear in my avatar actually is a pretty soiid giveaway lol. But look at that picture, its so cute lol!
As far as forgetting Im a girl, Im perfectly fine with that in regard to talking hockey. In that respect its actually kind of a compliment… and an affirmation that I really DO keep my comments about players I happen to think are really (REALLY) good looking to a minimum. Player hotness is just bonus material, after all… its not the focus.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 9, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
I just thought that I would point out that you just put up a picture of Kyle’s mom…you really have a thing for Kyle’s huh?
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
by metalcoconut on Mar 10, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
should have been Kyles without the apostophe…I’m tired…it is late…and I suck at typing…
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
by metalcoconut on Mar 10, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Apostrophes are overrrated, anyway. ;)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 10, 2010 8:00 AM EST up reply actions
Kyles are awesome.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 10, 2010 8:01 AM EST up reply actions
yea, I meant to imply the 2nd half of what you said but thought it might come out wrong.
I tend to not read nicks on the post unless there’s no avatar. So if I’m skimming through a bunch of comments for example I’m looking at avatars and stopping at people whose comments I usually enjoy.
Yea, I tend to be a rather oblivious human being a lot. I have stories like you wouldn’t believe.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
I think that Poulin may get a shot at proving he deserves to be considered over Mikko next year
and he may do so. For the moment, I see no reason to have any other attitude than that Mikko is the guy.
But what is this “the guy” idea of yours actually based on, just a hunch or what?
I have never seen anything from this organization that said what youre saying… and believe me I have looked, because Im a Poulin advocate and I definitely would have remembered if I did.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 9, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm were you in some far off land back last June?
First the fact that they expended the highly prized first pick of the second round to get Mikko. Then the attention that was focused on him at the draft and the glowing way he was talked about. That’s subjective but they seemed effusive. There were three players who received special media coverage from the Islanders in lat year’s draft and he was one of them. The bigger thing is that they picked Mikko 31st overall when there were a lot of other special players in that second round and they picked Poulin 126th.
Teams pick a player when they think another team is after someone they want. Mikko was 31st and Poulin was 126th- so? Once kids are drafted that doesnt mean jack. If no other team was interested in Mikko, they would have picked him later… would that have somehow altered his alleged “the guy” status?
Picking a kid when you pick him is saying we think you might turn out good someday and it seems worth it to pick you now. Picking him 31st isnt the organization saying he is “the guy” that is the media going “OMG OMG they started off draft day 2 drafting a goalie, Rick DiPietro OMG OMG 15 year contract OMG” and asking about him a lot. All of the Isles responses were perfectly normal. There was nothing about pinning “starter” on the chest of some big inexperienced kid… and Im telling ya if you think there was, I believe you were mistaken. At least I hope to god you are mistaken- because if this franchise makes decisions like that based not on how players develop but instead on something as worthless and baseless as draft ranking, we are all screwed.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 10, 2010 7:47 AM EST up reply actions
hmmm so I guess JT being drafted #1 overall says nothing about what the organization thinks of him?
Obviously with ANY player the team wants they pick him ahead of where they think others will because they want to be sure to get him. Thta is an important part of assessing value. That is not to say that a fifth round pick cannot develop into a better player than a second round pick. The fact remains, however, that prior to the 2009 draft and with Poulin in the mix, the Isles were regarded as having a VERY weak system in no small part because of the lack of viable goaltending prospects. And Garth obviously agreed with that assessment because he used two VERY valuable picks that could have been used on some VERY promising prospects (and I can give uou a list if you want) for goaltending prospects. His third pick and his fourth pick in the draft after prospective franchise players JT and De Haan were goaltending prospects. If that is not a statement of value, I do not know what is.
dont focus on where people are picked, that only means their expected to do certain things, look at 2000, we took DP at #1 and the rags took Henrik #205
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
i’m talking fans, not the organization, i’m sure they expect all of their guys to get better day to day, in order to reach their potential
fans however expect JT to drag the team from the depth’s of the Long Island Sound to the Mayors doorstep with his palm out waiting for the key to the city
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Play the field like a bachelor at a wedding
If DP is done then the Isles should play the field… The Isles aren’t desperate for a franchise goalie…yet. It is something that they will constantly need to be on the lookout for one because as we know you can’t be a consistent cup contender without top shelf goaltending. However in the meantime they should play the free agent field as much as possible without committing to anyone long term while keeping a very close watch on the development of all the kid net minders.
Short term: stick with Rollie and grab a 1B this summer (Ellis, Mason, Budaj, or Mason) younger (cheaper) guys that may thrive if given a (nother) chance. If the Isles don’t love ‘em, cut them loose after next season.
Long term: grow a franchise net minder in the system(that’s so easy to write) or continue to fish for them in free agency.
As long as we have consistent, average goaltending for the next season or so, we can afford to wait and evaluate the kids.
This is the most important peice of the puzzle if we want a rebuild to successfully transition to a consistent winner.
This is almost exactly the premise I had in mind, though I honestly wanted to hear everyone’s stance. In other words, take DP out of the equation, how do you approach the goaltending picture when starting from almost scratch? And I think that hybrid cheaper-vet and groom-prospects sounds like the way to go now, particularly with the market heavy on good goalies and short on great ones.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
the braintrust were touting Mikko as the guy last June
and I haven’t seen any reason to vary from that. Poulin will get his shot as backup early next season and maybe some starts late this. For now, though, Mikko’s the guy.
As “the guy” in what way? I mean he was the guy who’s closest by age and development, but with goalies it really doesn’t matter until you arrive. There are so few slots available, to me the guy getting the bulk of starts in the AHL is generally the next in line.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
really?
Well, I go with the guy who was picked 31st overall in front of a lot of very special prospects and who was one of three players given special attention by the Isles media-wise (the others being Tavares and De Haan). I go with him over the guy who was picked 126th and who certainly would not be getting all those starts if Mikko hadn’t been injured. Mikko’s injury has given Poulin a shot. If I am Poulin or I am pushing Poulin, I have to wonder about my future with the organization going into this season when HF described goal as an organizational black hole prior to last year’s draft which fact Garth then addressed by using his two most valuable picks after the De Haan trade up on goalies. Mikko’s injury has given Poulin a shot. Let’s see what he does with it. If the organization is all that impressed with him, I should think they’ll give him a test drive with the big team before the season’s over. If they don’t and if they hire a veteran backup, then I still have to believe that DP’s mantle is Mikko’s to lose.
Again with the draft ranking!
I doesnt matter, BC… I see you think it really does, but it doesnt.
Did the Rangers go with Al Montoya because of his draft ranking?
Nope- they went with some “nobody” they drafted 205th overall.
Why?
Because once a guy is in your oganization, draft ranking does not matter!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 10, 2010 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
If there was “no difference” Cizikas would have gone much earlier.
If you insist on staying married to this idea that the first overall pick is the first best and the second overall pick is the second best and the 31st overall pick is the 31st best and the 185th overall is the 185th best, and so on, go ahead. It however is just a thing some people like to do- it is in absolutely no way, shape, or form anything close to reality.
BTW- if Cizikas showed up to camp next year scoring like Mike Bossy in his prime and Tavares showed up in the kind of shape that made Kasper in his sophmore camp look cut, guess which one I would want in my starting lineup? Draft order be damned!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 10, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
If the organization is all that impressed with [Poulin], I should think they’ll give him a test drive with the big team before the season’s over. If they don’t and if they hire a veteran backup, then I still have to believe that DP’s mantle is Mikko’s to lose.
You realize Poulin is 19 and Koskinen is 21, right? This “mantle” or inheritance issue will not be resolved until they think a goalie is ready, period.
I understand thinking Koskinen is next in line (he’s older, after all) — it’s the claim that he deserves or has some mantle because of his draft position that is untenable. Is David Toews (#66) the priority over Kiril Petrov (#73) because of draft number, or could there be other variables in play? Does Aaron Ness (#40) get the next shot over Travis Hamonic (#53) and Jyri Niemi (#72) or could there be other factors at work before anyone sees NHL time? We can all pick numbers out of a hat. But “the guy” is determined by who the club thinks is ready to deliver when the time comes.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
the braintrust were touting Mikko as the guy last June
??? How did they do that?
I think that a lot of people asked the Isles why they drafted a goalie mainly because of Ricks injury situation- and they answered all the quesitons people kept asking. I would expect they would say they believed in every kid they drafted, otherwise why the heck would they have drafted them?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 9, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Wrong.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 10, 2010 7:57 AM EST up reply actions
Throw the numbers out, BC.
Look at them for what they REALLY ARE- players.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 10, 2010 7:58 AM EST up reply actions
31 > 126th
…but only on draft day. Once you actually have them in the organization, playing every day, coaching them, working them in practice, things change. Scouting and film can never tell you everything – if it did there would be no such thing as a draft bust.
Of course I'm an expert, I've seen Slap Shot eleven times!
They werent even in the same draft, so this numbers comparison between the two of them means even less.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 10, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
31 = 126 after draft day
BC, we really don’t have to trot out the number of late picks who lapped earlier picks both in minor league systems and in the NHL, do we? This draft placement - particularly in different years! - doesn’t mean squat.
The only time a pick ever has any entitlement or premature stature bestowed on them is when they’re a top five/top ten pick and a struggling franchise feels pressure to show they made the right choice.
When you’re developing goalies, you give the NHL shot to the one who has shown himself to be most NHL-ready at the time you need him. Thanks to Mikko’s age (which is also why he was picked sooner), it may be him. But it will be determined on the ice, not by looking back at the 2009 draft board.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
That's a dishonest retort, no matter how many times you repeat it
Sorry, you’re the one turning “he was drafted #31” into “he is THE guy,” which is not a statement I’ve ever seen an Islanders official make.
Following your circular logic, we could argue “But Poulin was drafted #126 in 2008, whereas Koskinen wasn’t drafted at all in 2007 or 2008” and insist that Poulin is by definition “the guy.” But we’re not arguing that, because that would ignore all other factors and focus solely on draft number.
We’re saying that no one is pre-ordained to be “the guy” by draft position, particularly with goalies, who all develop on different timelines. There are many variables that go into any draft (in this instance, some include: Koskinen was drafted sooner in 2009 despite being PASSED OVER in two previous drafts because he was seen as being closer to NHL-ready). Does that mean he’d be an NHL #1? No, of course not. Does it mean the Isles will decide who’s next depending on development and what they need next time they call up a goalie? Yes, yes it does.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
nothing circular about my logic
and this discussion is getting awfully tiresome. The Isles drafted Mikko with the intent to groom him as their #1. That plan went a bit off the rails because of his injury and Poulin definitely has a shot now. I am going to post this and then be done with this discussion.
HF’s current analysis. Previously they had dinged the franchise’s lack of viable goaltender prospects as a major organizational flaw WITH Poulin in the mix.
Goaltender
Much like their situation on defense, the Islanders had neglected the goalie position until a series of recent moves improved the situation considerably. The Islanders now have a bevy of talented goaltenders. Second-round pick Mikko Koskinen has moved over to play pro in North America this year. It remains to be seen how coach Jack Capuano will divide playing time between Koskinen, Nathan Lawson, and Scott Munroe, or who gets sent down to the Utah Grizzlies of the ECHL. Koskinen has the highest ceiling of the Islander goaltending prospects, but with so many goaltenders in the system the Islanders have no need to rush his development. He is the youngest of the group in Bridgeport at 21.
Both Anders Nilsson and Kevin Poulin are much farther away in their development. Nilsson will play this season in Sweden and Poulin will be in the QMJHL.
Just a few of the prospects Garth passed on to pick Mikko. You cannot convince me that he passed on these and other prospects to add depth to the system. They intended to groom Mikko to be backup and likely #1.
Carl Klingberg—
7th ranked European skater
6’3" 205 LW
He has explosive acceleration and is strong on his skates – he is hard to hold off when he’s driving the net. He works hard down low in the zone and is courageous enough to go into tight battles."
Landon Ferraro
Many had projected as a first round pick
NHL Central Scouting’s Blair MacDonald
“He’s very good defensively. He has very good defensive positioning; he’s always on the right side of the puck. If there’s a turnover he’s in good position right away. And he comes back deep in his own zone to help. He’s very strong defensively, as well as being an offensive threat.”
Red Deer Rebels head coach Jesse Wallin
“Ferraro is the most highly-touted of the (Rebel’s prospects). He’s got great natural ability, he’s got tremendous speed and he’s got that knack to score goals that you can’t teach. He’s got that innate ability to find the net that makes him a special player.”
Matt Clark
6’3" 205 D
Scout compared him to Marc Staal
Moved up from #58 to #31 ranking
Zach Budish
6’3" 229 RW
NHL Central Scouting’s Jack Barzee
"Zach is physically mature in stature, has a good shot in traffic and has a strong ability to dissect the game around him. He’s a force, he’s hard to move off the puck and he can snap a wrist shot from the blue line. With Zach playing football and the two seasons overlapping, his criticism has been that he hasn’t had his skating legs under him, but I’ve seen Zach since he was 15 years old. I’ve seen how he has carried the team and made people around him better. He reminds me of Keith Tkachuk or David Backes at the same age."
Dmitri Orlov
6’ 197 D
NHL European Scouting Report
"Orlov is an extremely skilled offensive-minded defenseman with excellent hand eye coordination. He makes good, hard, tape-to-tape passes and his excellent stickhandling, supported by very efficient small dekes, gains him extra time and space. He isn’t overly physical, but he is noticeably strong."
AND last but definitely not least:
Ryan O’ Reilly
6’ 200 C
NHL Central Scouting’s Chris Edwards
“He’s very responsible defensively. He backchecks hard and he’s very good at identifying his check in his own end. He’s very good at the defensive end of the game.”
Erie GM Sherry Bassin
“He’s a special player. He’s nowhere near the level he’s going to be. He really accepts the challenge of getting better. He really believes in the team winning, not himself. I haven’t had a kid that’s so focused on preparation and just working on getting better. He’s got such a work ethic you almost have to pull him away. We always talk about the will to prepare — well, he’s got a phenomenal will to prepare.”
OBTW Ryan is currently 7-14-21, +2 for the Avs.
These are just some of the players Garth passed on to draft Mikko.
Also listen carefully to what Kautonen says at the end of the post-pick interview.
http://www.youtube.com/user/nyislanders#p/u/13/E15a1eKcHo8
He is projecting Mikko to be NHL-ready by next season (2010-11) at the latest
and I just noticed the headline to your comment
Disagree with me all you like. Tell me I am completely wrong all you like. But I hope you will never accuse me of being dishonest again. Really, Dom, I thought better of you than that!
And I think better of you than that, but your response ignores my point and just repeats your “31>126” and "look at all the talent picked after Koskinen. Refusal to address a counterpoint is either circular or intellectually dishonest, in my book. But like you said, it’s tiresome, we can give it up. There are too many italics here anyway.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Give it a rest, brother
At this point, no… but not just because of draft order. Besides, it’s very early in both their careers. In time this could change. Ten years ago Patrik Stefan went #1 overall… Mike Comrie went #91. Comrie, nobody’s example of a great player, has almost twice as many points in the NHL. In 1993, Alexander Daigle went #1… there are EIGHT different guys in his draft class who have more NHL goals AND who went after Cizikas’ spot. That doesn’t include Eric Daze, who went #90.
In ten years, if Cizikas is a perennial All-Star, 30-goal a year guy, and JT winds up topping out where he is – will you still be asking this silly question? Because the answer will still be the same – the draft is only the beginning, it doesn’t fix a player’s value in stone forever. Once players are in your organization and playing, it’s their play that determines which of them excel and which are busts.
Of course I'm an expert, I've seen Slap Shot eleven times!
Comments
FYI, if anyone’s still following this thread, a bunch of the comments have disappeared thanks to a technical snafu with BC’s account (which affects replies, too). I’ve contacted support and they’ll be restored hopefully soon.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New Jersey
|
82 | 48 | 27 | 7 | 103 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
82 | 47 | 28 | 7 | 101 |
|
Philadelphia
|
82 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 88 |
|
New York Rangers
|
82 | 38 | 33 | 11 | 87 |
|
New York Islanders
|
82 | 34 | 37 | 11 | 79 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
Islanders Schedule
Next 5 Games
|
@
Philadelphia
|
Wed 09/29 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
Calgary
|
Wed 09/29 | 8:00 PM EDT |
|
@
New Jersey
|
Fri 10/01 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
New Jersey
|
Sat 10/02 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
Montreal
|
Sat 10/02 | 7:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
|
Pittsburgh
|
Sun 04/11 | OT - L 5 - 6 |
|
@
New Jersey
|
Sat 04/10 | L 1 - 7 |
|
@
Pittsburgh
|
Thu 04/08 | L 3 - 7 |
|
Montreal
|
Tue 04/06 | SO - W 4 - 3 |
|
Ottawa
|
Sat 04/03 | W 4 - 1 |
In Association With
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