Diversion: Debunking the anonymous Islander's three-goalie excuse
by Dominik on Mar 5, 2010 1:01 PM EST
in Big Picture Musings
88 comments
A source also said that the team's performance has been hindered by the undesirable dynamic with three goaltenders in play.
"Look at where we were at, we had a playoff spot," said a player who requested anonymity. "Then we went on a losing streak and now we're on the outside looking in."
>>Newsday [sub.], quoting some Quixote who thought five shootout wins means you're a playoff team
Let it never be said that carrying three goalies doesn't pose problems, both logistical and psychological: From practice to game time to the delicate rhythm of crazy goalies, it certainly does. Yet let it also never be said that a player seeking excuses will have trouble finding them -- and anonymously venting them when things go bad.
The Rick DiPietro situation is far from ideal, yet at least this year the Islanders finally entered the 12-step program to address it. First step: Admit that you have a problem. They drafted goalies in the 2nd and 3rd rounds last summer, they signed two established NHL starters for this season, and they had a plan for re-introducing the man on the 15-year contract when ready to be tested. It was never going to be graceful, but it had to be done for this franchise to move forward. Everyone knew that evaluating DiPietro was an uncomfortable but necessary step for the franchise's long-term planning. ("Can he be healthy again? If healthy, can he regain his form?" etc. Necessary questions, all.)
I understand players being bummed that it hasn't worked out to perfection for the eminently likable Martin Biron: He overpriced himself last summer, ended up with this 1C situation as a last alternative, never played well enough to wrest the starting reins from Dwayne Roloson, and thus wasn't a desirable commodity at the trade deadline. That's a shame.
And this is just Newsday's first "controversial" locker room story of the season, so I don't want to blow it up; I welcome more locker room insight. But what alarms me as a fan is the stipulation from a player that this is why the team started losing and lost its ever-tenuous, incredibly brief, shootout- and extra-games-played-aided January hold on "a playoff spot." And not, you know, the entire roster's inherent deficiencies. Let's review the facts, shall we?
The Shootout: Putting Lipstick on a Pig Since 2005
On Jan. 21, the Islanders had just completed an unsustainable 10-3-1 run -- a streak that, importantly, included five shootout wins, which is the NHL's version of a coin flip even when you have Frans Nielsen on your side. Shootout-aided or not, it was easily their best streak of the season. The surge mitigated a December losing streak (seven losses in nine games) and put them at 23-20-8, good for 8th place in the mediocre East, one point ahead of the ninth-place Flyers, who had two games in hand. That's right: The Islanders' best run of the season was not only heavily shootout-dependent, but it elevated them to all of 8th place by one point, thanks to extra games played.
Two of the wins on that streak (one regulation shutout of New Jersey, one shootout win) went to Rick DiPietro, though even at the time many of us noted that DiPietro didn't look to be match fit.
Immediately after that date, the Islanders went on the aforementioned losing streak -- seven regulation losses in a row -- during which they scored nine goals. Nine. A pox on those three goalies for holding back the Islanders offense!
Now, during that streak, DiPietro took three of the seven losses, allowing three goals twice and two goals once. Roloson took the other four. I'm sure DP's re-introduction to the squad created empathy for Biron, who immediately became the odd man out and did not play between Dec. 27 and Feb. 9. But this was always going to be the case. It wasn't a question of if, but when, DiPietro returned -- and every goalie and player knew it coming into the season. Every player signed up for this. Uncomfortable, hardly ideal, but necessary.
To that point, returning to the Newsday article:
Those unhappy with the current circumstances believe that the organization's efforts to get DiPietro back into the lineup have resulted in a difficult situation for all parties involved.
"If that continues, the organization will never improve," a source said. "Things will only continue to plummet."
Yes, it's difficult. But the previous mistake of a 15-year commitment to a goaltender necessitates the difficult situation of figuring out what they have, the sooner the better. There's really no way around it.
Bigger Problems than a Crowded Crease
Regardless, then as now, this team is still not very good. They're in the second year of a franchise restart, on a cap floor budget (itself inflated by the Yashin buyout), with their three most talented forwards at age 21 or younger, each experiencing the slumps and flashes that young forwards go through.
That winning streak did not alter several underlying problems: that the Islanders have the NHL's 27th-ranked offense (currently 2.5 GF/GP), the 29th-ranked powerplay (currently 15.3%), and the 28th-ranked 5-on-5 goal differential (currently 0.82). The penalty kill is also 29th, at 75.3%.
If a player wants to blame all of the above on the discomfort of three goalies' presence at practice, he is in need of a bigger mirror, and he probably believes in the Church of Momentum.
* * *
I may be making a little too much out of a few (anonymous) quotes that are likely born out of frustration over losing. And any "source said, anonymous player said" story like this is carefully worded and pieced together by a beat reporter to convey a mood without betraying a trust or risking players freezing you out of further access. Statements in print require context we just can't grab.
It's just that this team certainly has problems -- other, immediate problems -- so I'd hate to see players or management sweep their own failings under the rug in the name of a convenient scapegoat: Oh, it's the presence of three goaltenders; "it's just not good for anyone." Here, have a tissue.
No, for the current squad and their professed playoff aspirations, there are greater things to figure out: There's the matter of bad special teams, of the curious balance of ice time for underachieving youth versus aging (and likewise underachieving) UFAs, the thin blueline Garth Snow seems to continually overvalue, and ... well what is to come of DiPietro, anyway?
DiPietro is an issue that will resolve itself one way or another on the ice and in the doctor's office. It sucks, but that's the problem they gave themselves in 2006, which the hockey gods have tortured them with ever since. I'm more concerned about the constitution of this team's roster going forward, and how it's handled. How the players handle themselves.
'Cause the way they're scoring, right now Terry Sawchuk couldn't get this team in a playoff spot.
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Great perspective Dom. Without delving too much into a story that’s really… well.. what can you say? I wonder who provided the pay-per-fodder. I have a hard time believing the veteran guys who’ve played with DP before are ready to throw him under the bus, but again, it’s dangerous to speculate with players who have seen so little success in a long while.
Maybe we can sign Tim Howard after the World Cup is over. Eh.
i got 99 problems, but Streit gettin' hurt in the Olympics aint one!
That's the pain with these anonymous players/sources
Many of the quotes in the article are true: Three goaltenders is awkward, forcing DiPietro in is difficult, etc. So it could be just cobbled-together observations of “it is what it is.” Don’t know what’s on the cutting-room floor, either. Don’t know who needs to vent.
But the losing streak excuse is lame. Play the game and be glad you have an NHL job.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
A Few Things...
Dominik…
Ever consider that Newsday was holding this for a while or perhaps even making up some of these sources/quotes or perhaps doing some talking for a blogger who was not given access to Snow after the deadline and made it clear he was very unhappy?
This is one of those times as a writer you have to personally decide what’s the right thing, being popular for page views/access and not rocking the boat or questioning the people writing those things and why are they doing it at this time.
Funny this all appeared the same day Neil Best needed almost a full month to go after the radio issue again based on a game from February 9th. Mr Best also selectively omits 18 games on Msg+2 and a subscription newspaper is a far bigger issue in terms of exposure than radio coverage when a major hockey market with far higher television ratings for hockey than New York City like Buffalo has the same radio setup.
Buffalo recently had to share pre-game with road teams because they did not have a full announcing staff, who’s television rights are owned by….drumroll.
Madison Square Garden who owns our telecast and recently gave us a +2 game where different colors appeared all night making for an impossible view of the game.
On the ice…
DiPietro in one weekend tied Biron’s win total for the season when he beat Brodeur and Miller in his return. Both goaltenders knew what they signed on for here and despite Roloson playing outstanding when he was number one goalie that first month he did not do well sharing the crease with Biron and has not proven (at least here) he can be an effective backup to date. At age 40 he has seen it all and should have himself ready to play at a high level every game.
So when were all these so called un-named players complaining? On vacation together the last two plus weeks, when they could not score any goals in head to head games to give any goaltender a chance to win much the last month or was this saved./fabricated/exaggerated to release all at once to create some negative attention the day after someone did not get access to the gm when he wanted?
Garth Snow for his part did a video and spoke to the media after Sutton’s trade, he spoke with the print media after the deadline. The other two local gm’s and many who never speak to the media did not.
Coaches are fired in this market this late and even later during the hockey season and we see no newspaper’s need to claim sources and un-named players to give us information.
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 1:37 PM EST reply actions
I'm a bit confused
This is one of those times as a writer you have to personally decide what’s the right thing, being popular for page views/access and not rocking the boat or questioning the people writing those things and why are they doing it at this time.
It’s not clear to me who you’re referring to here. Strang/Newsday is who wrote the article/rocked the boat, Botta is who complained about being frozen out of the deadline scrum. Which one needs to make which decision?
or was this saved./fabricated/exaggerated to release all at once to create some negative attention the day after someone did not get access to the gm when he wanted?
So you’re thinking Strang saved this material because Botta was left out of the post-deadline GM scrum? Professional standards aside, even motivationally that doesn’t make sense to me. These quotes came from locker room (and private, outside-the-lockeroom) access, the conclusion of which seems to be the fact neither goalie moved at the deadline.
It’s certainly possible some of the quotes are a few weeks old (dating back to before the break, after the losing streak ended) — I even wondered if one of them was the now-departed Andy Sutton. But when a writer is piecing together an article like this, I sure expect her to wait to publish until she has multiple sources, and not just one bad apple. Considering Newsday hasn’t been airing dirty locker room laundry all year long, I’m not going to complain about negative coverage here.
The main issue to me is that some player wearing an Islander uniform thought he was deprived of a playoff spot because of an always up-front yet difficult situation with three goalies, rather than his and his teammates’ on-ice performance. If his complaint is masking other issues he has with the rebuild/coaching/GM, I’d prefer he voice those instead.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Reply
Dominik,
I’m referring to you.
Are you going to go with what’s being presented as fact, stay above things and not question the timing or ask a few hard questions of what motivated Strang, Best and perhaps even Botta’’s role here which may not be good for you to do so.
I see Mark Herrmann who loves to stir the pot is covering Friday practice and has not been around the Isles (or hockey) much since first half of the season.
Or does this play only as fans going through players and wondering who could say such a thing? We have seen this practice before from Newsday with un-named players and so-called sources regarding our team. The other teams fire coaches and we do not see a similar practice employed by this paper.
Was Strang doing a little firing back for Botta or getting tough because many have questioned her soft coverage or was this being selectively held for the right time? Neil Best holding information on radio coverage about one game for practically a month while not writing a word on his employers print/television coverage raise more than fair questions about why will he not question his employer and what changed since early February. Did Best call up Howie Rose and Chris Dey since the Chicago game during the break when he could have written this in his blog at any time?
Do we really know any Islander player said anything or was something blown out of proportion and even fabricated to a degree to get folks talking?
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
To be clear, you’re saying that the “right” thing for Dom to do is to speculate wildly about any number of conceivable scenarios rather than write about the article as written?
by AP77 on Mar 5, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What I’m saying is maybe Dominik should risk any pending future links on Point Blank or any props from any amateur writer from Yahoo and question the motivation and credibility of the writer.
An article was written completely based upon " un-named sources " and one supposed quote from an " un-named player "……
Another had quotes and was based on radio coverage from a game a month ago, so why now?
The right thing to always do is question everything unless we get an article where a player puts his name to a quote which then makes it a credible story that must be written about.
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Pardon me, NYIFC
If you think I am chasing traffic by criticizing a player’s contention that the goalie situation knocked the team from a playoff spot, then you haven’t read much of what I’ve written here, or else you’ve sorely misinterpreted my rather careful tone.
An article was written completely based upon " un-named sources " and one supposed quote from an " un-named player "……
Yes, this happens, in every sport, when there are complaints from a player who doesn’t want to face consequences for his quote. Do you go piping off about your boss over company email?
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Not just in sports, but news in general unnamed sources are used all of the time. Journalism investigative journalism wouldn’t exist without unnamed sources. Wasn’t Deep Throat an unnamed source for Christ sake?
Do you go piping off about your boss over company email?
I do know a former coworker that lost his job for bitching about me (his immediate supervisor) and our boss on his myspace.
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 5, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Your former coworker’s comments must have been fabricated for the sake of traffic. ;)
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Do you go piping off about your boss over company email?
Perhaps you should ask the former editor and publisher of Newsday, one was practically fired or quit January 09 because he allowed something critical of the Cablevision-owned Knicks where the news room had no one running things during a presidential inauguration because everyone walked off the job.
Both are gone now and the person who designed the wonderful new website design everyone is thrilled with is the new publisher.
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
Which. Would. Explain. Why. A Player. Remains. Anonymous.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Nice circle of logic
What I’m saying is maybe Dominik should risk any pending future links on Point Blank or any props from any amateur writer from Yahoo and question the motivation and credibility of the writer.
Once again, you seem to be confusing writers and roles. You want me to criticize Strang’s article as false or illegitimate, and you think doing so will risk future links from PB or from Yahoo (exactly where did Yahoo come in?)? I can’t imagine how those dots connect, unless of course someone would think this site isn’t worth a link because its manager is a nutter who accuses beatwriters of making up stories.
P.S. This site is a hobby, so traffic and links are a priority somewhere behind: 1)Enjoying talking hockey; 2) Hearing the perspectives of fellow Isles fans; 3) Having a laugh and being entertained; 4) Connecting with many fans who, like me, don’t get to attend many games in person; 5) Crystallizing my own thinking about the team by putting it up for feedback from others.
When traffic is my first priority, you’ll know it by the sudden proliferation of boob shots.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
When traffic is my first priority, you’ll know it by the sudden proliferation of boob shots.
So is that why KY was advertising here a couple of weeks ago?
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 5, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
I could’ve sworn they promised visuals!
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Not going to accuse a journalist of fabrication
Do we really know any Islander player said anything or was something blown out of proportion and even fabricated to a degree to get folks talking?
We know nothing if we’re not in the room, but my money is on Strang not being Jayson Blair just for the sake of one little story about a not-unexpected topic. Seriously, Strang has played the steady and hardly negative beatwriter all season long — the biggest criticism I’ve heard of her is that she isn’t prying enough! — and now suddenly she has one story that airs some of the pent-up laundry about a known issue, and you think she’s fabricating?!?! I’m sorry, I’m not taking that bait.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
We know nothing if we’re not in the room, but my money is on Strang not being Jayson Blair just for the sake of one little story about a not-unexpected topic. Seriously, Strang has played the steady and hardly negative beatwriter all season long — the biggest criticism I’ve heard of her is that she isn’t prying enough! — and now suddenly she has one story that airs some of the pent-up laundry about a known issue, and you think she’s fabricating?!?! I’m sorry, I’m not taking that bait.
You should not have to place your money on anything which is the point, she should have a direct quote or simply not run the story. A team not getting player features or expanded coverage should receive that over this level of gossip.
Why is there not a name to the quote then. She’s has quotes in every other story?
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Why is there not a name to the quote then. She’s has quotes in every other story?
Because when active players directly criticize teammates and/or management, they generally don’t put their name to it. This is a phenomenon as old as sports media itself. Don’t act like it hasn’t happened for years.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Because when active players directly criticize teammates and/or management, they generally don’t put their name to it. This is a phenomenon as old as sports media itself. Don’t act like it hasn’t happened for years.
Of course it has, but it happens far more often with writers covering this team in this paper which barely covers them these days in print. Do you really believe Neil Best also just got those quotes from Chris Dey and Howie Rose based on a game back during the first week in February?
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, I didn’t even read the radio rights story, so I can’t answer that. The topic of this post is not Newsday; it’s where the Islanders on-ice roster is right now, and whether an existing player should be blaming their losing streak on the goaltending crowd rather than on his and his teammates’ collective weaknesses and performances.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
As to why Best got quotes in February but his editors or he only ran the column this week: I don’t know.
Doesn’t change the merit. Hell, I criticized the radio simulcast move back in July*, but I assure you there was no premeditated intent nor a desire to be in cahoots with Newsday.
*how’s this for irony: it was in the same post I sang the praises of the Biron signing
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Why are you attacking Dom over a complaint you have with Strang? Really?
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 5, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Since you've clarified you're referring to me...
This is one of those times as a writer you have to personally decide what’s the right thing, being popular for page views/access and not rocking the boat or questioning the people writing those things and why are they doing it at this time.
No, it’s really not. I’m questioning the player venting anonymously to the reporter. Not sure if there’s popularity in that; pretty sure it’s a good topic for discussion though.
Media criticism is your gig. I’ll wade into it only when I truly believe someone is being unfair.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Media criticism is your gig. I’ll wade into it only when I truly believe someone is being unfair.
Actually media criticism is not my gig. It is amusing Newsday hit this team from radio and locker room side all at once the day after someone did not get access to the gm and made that a public issue with no direct quotes.
Player features sure don’t seem to come in with same frequency or when team won all those games.
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
I still don’t understand why you think Newsday would be dinging the Islanders for freezing out someone who is a de facto competitor of Newsday. Motivationally, that makes no sense to me.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Dominik
Newsday will ding the Islanders over anything and everything, Wang will bring back dynasty players and they will claim it was for attendance, then turn around and claim Isles do nothing to honor the past while Newsday sat on the sidelines on 5/24/05.
They also bullied (with Botta) the club out of the NHL injury policy last season with a relentless campaign that far exceeded game coverage and player features as most other teams went upper lower body and did not take the same media criticism.
The Islanders are are owned by another NHL team who last year had Neil Best make the point this team did not deserve a pregame on his employers cable station then make his case based on ratings that do not differentiate Msg, Msg+ or Msg+2.
Ms Strang only claimed one actual player quote, the rest were just sources that could have come from anywhere. Maybe she was not thrilled Botta was frozen out but perhaps you know why Neil Best held his article for almost a month about radio coverage.
To me this seemed to design to dump on the team all at once. That’s why I think there are fair questions.
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
The following would be two separate players
“Look at where we were at, we had a playoff spot,” said a player who requested anonymity. “Then we went on a losing streak and now we’re on the outside looking in.”
“You just can’t have three goaltenders,” another player said. “It’s not great for anyone.”
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Fair enough, a second player commented. Who, When?
Bill Guerin was at Msg taking questions from Mark Herrmann yesterday, how do you know he did not ask those questions or takes those quotes from him?
All I do know is Newsday/Best held this thing on radio coverage for close to a month then combined it with Strang’s article and it was all released the same day?
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
How do I know that the president is not, in fact, an alien seeking to take me out on a comet when the time is right? Perhaps my time is coming. I hope they have MSG+2 on that comet.
Sorry. You can question the motives of the beatwriter. I can decide to take at face value the quotes presented by the beatwriter who’s around the team every day.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Sorry. You can question the motives of the beatwriter. I can decide to take at face value the quotes presented by the beatwriter who’s around the team every day.
Yes you can take at face value anonymous quotes and so-called sources but when two things surface the same day it seems designed to stir things up first from how I see things.
BTW, Biron shot that approach down this afternoon.
We agree to disagree. Take care.
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
BTW, Biron shot that approach down this afternoon.
And which approach was that? Did Biron say no way an anonymous player said such things, for I [Biron] have eyes and ears everywhere?
Yes, agree to disagree.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
How do I know that the president is not, in fact, an alien seeking to take me out on a comet when the time is right? Perhaps my time is coming. I hope they have MSG+2 on that comet.
Cablevision will be showing the Academy Awards there with the Food Network, Tennis Channel on Msg +2.
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
An alien, huh?
And here I thought he was just an ordinary muslim islamo-fascist socialist terrorist non-citizen. . . .
Dig deeper!
/adjusts tinfoil hat
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Welcome to the League of Mad Fellows
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 5, 2010 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
To me this seemed to design to dump on the team all at once. That’s why I think there are fair questions.
And you are free to think that way and ask those questions. I have my issues and complaints with Newsday; a believe that Strang fabricated and/or saved quotes to rip the team is not one of them. Why, I notice she even handled it carefully by saying Snow’s inability to move either goalie wasn’t for a lack of effort.
Again: The purpose of my post, as (I think) clearly stated, is that I have an issue with an excuse a player anonymously provided to Strang. By definition, I believe that quote is real. Comical, really, that you think my expressing this is somehow avoiding “rocking the boat.” I guess it all depends on which boat you want rocked.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
The Islanders are are owned by another NHL team
Silly me! I thought they were owned by Charles Wang….who has not become an NHL team that I know of.
I wonder if Strang gets shut out like Botta did for letting those quotes see the light of day. Perhaps this is a preemptive excuse to throw around as to why the Isles don’t make it into the playoffs.
I’m guessing that everyone is thinking, “shut up and score more and we wouldn’t have these problems.” This whole idea of this article is wrong and I sense a Wag the Dog situation. Perhaps NYIFC is correct in stating that this article come out after Botta gets shut out. the timing is definitely suspect but the reason that this gets so much attention is that it is a rare negative article. The Isles have so few media outlets that they really can’t afford to shun any of the regulars as they just did.
I don’t remember the last time I saw anything good come from negative random quotes from anonomous sources. Perhaps someone is not happy with the “rebuild” or this is some warning to a player/coach/GM. Laviolette was fired for less than this lockerroom situation, then again that was in the time of the Mad One. However, this isn’t good for anyone. Considering that the Isles organization is in such transition/limbo at the moment, this is the absolute last thing that needs to come out. Whatever free agent we were thinking about signing can slowly slip away they way it looks now.
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
I don’t remember the last time I saw anything good come from negative random quotes from anonymous sources.
Yeah, that is the sucky thing about these. They seldom do a net good, and I hate when media feast off of gossipy/negative coverage (But I don’t think Newsday has done that this season on the beat side — can’t remember much negativity before this). On the other hand, when there are issues within the room, it’s good to know about them — even if it’s just to learn that you have a malcontent — and often this is the only way they surface.
I’m not sure Lavi was fired for less, though. IIRC, there were some definite divisions reported on at the time, though it’s anybody’s guess whether a better solution would have been to ax some players. Lavi was young and still had some to learn, too.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Agreed, Dom
Any dim remaining flicker of a hope for this team to make the playoffs this year depends on the guys in the room getting it done and not whining about their circumstances. JT especially needs to start scoring. If he doesn’t start scoring in bunches, there is no shot at the playoffs. The Rangers have a goaltender as good as any in the NHL and they are a marginal playoff team at best. Garth has done as much as reasonably possible to give this team adequate goaltending while trying to work the DP thing out. They need to quit whining and play.
Well Said Dom
Bravo. Wouldn’t be surprised if the anonymous source’s last name started with a T and ended with an Elleni. Just in case anyone overreacts, I’m joking.
BTW: I like the new tagline, but I was thinking of this last night “How many years till we’re out of this Desert?”
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
Looking at the intro
Where exactly were these announced, “long-standing plans” to move one of our netminders? (per Strang article). I know some of us as fans believed it would happen, but as I asked during the trade thread, what would we do next year if we moved one or both goalies? Uh…. The only guarantee RIGHT NOW is Rolo. Beyond that, who is to say there was a play for Biron anywhere? Who had the cap room to make a deal AND had the need? …. Someone needs to get a little perspective before throwing around some loose lipped statements. Increasingly frustrating.
Comeau, Comeau, Comeauuu and do the locomotion with me.
I think even Biron at a few points this season acknowledged the plan to move him, but certainly there was never any guarantee. Really, once his play didn’t take off in the fall and the market continued to see multiple goalies available, I worried that it might not work out.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Honestly, if I had money to bet on which team falls off a cliff after the half-way point, I would always, always bet it on a team that has a disproportionately good shootout records (I’m not talking about teams like Pittsburgh this year and their ridiculously lucky/good/voodoo-influenced 7-1 record). Rather, I’m referring to teams like the Isles this year (7-5) and Colorado last year (9-4 overall and something like 6-1 at the halfway mark).
I think the biggest problem with the source articles proposition is that it appear to blame the Isles problems on the mythical idea of chemistry – chemistry with the goalie as there is no stable starter. Could lack of chemistry be a problem: yes. But chemistry is such a fickle thing – its there one minute, gone the next (e.g. Moulson-Tavares, converting Bailey to a winger). Granted, there is a reliance on the concept of the hot goalie down the stretch that is influential – but then runs to the playoffs can occur with goalie tandems also (for example Mason-Conklin in St Louis last year).
Would some defenders gel more with one goalie than another: yes. But is this going to affect the overall quality of the Isles team playing on ice: I doubt it.
Yeah, shootout luck is always an unnerving proposition. Earlier in the year I took some solace that the Islanders, despite their frequent appearance in OT, were not totally feasting on them (I think they were 3-7 in OT/SO at one point). Then they went on that run during the 10-3-1 streak, which I loved, but just picking up that many shootout wins in that span tells you the luck was due to fall the other way. Heh, now they can’t even make it to OT to share the spoils.
“Chemistry is such a fickle thing” — too true. I grant the psychological aspect of goaltending and a team’s confidence in it. No matter voodoo or chemistry or whatever, if players believe in it, then it’s a concern to some degree. But considering some of the efforts before the break and last night, knowing that at least one player places the blame there obviously set me off. Hopefully they were just blowing off frustrations.
Ah, human frailties.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Hardly, a unique phenomenon but shootout record for Isles at home: 6-1, away: 1-4.
I guess I understand that a player attributes some the issues with the Isles to goalie-tandem issues – but its a matter of determining whether this is representative of the teams opinion or just an odd player. The anonymity factor also means that you don’t know if it is a Tavares or a Streit comment (doubtful) or a lower-tier player like a Sim or a Park.
In a way, I just hope that this won’t be that big of an issue – as the tandem is going to be the Isles method of goaltending for the foreseeable future.
I’m hoping it’s a non-issue, too. Heh, certainly with DP hurt again there’s room for both to resume their respective starter/contract campaigns.
Hate to guess, but I’d hope figure it’s: Not the captains, not a young star (please, please no), and not a goaltender. Maybe UFAs and/or guys unhappy with ice time?
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
There are 5 UFA’s on roster: Sim, Park, Weight, Biron and Meyer. I doubt Weight would say something like that – due to his leadership position. Meyer has been good for a major injury per year in the past – so I doubt he fulfils both criteria.
Out of these I wouldn’t be surprised if it were Biron saying this – I might be bitter if I didn’t achieve my goal of getting another chance as a starter in the league, plus the situation would be one that would understand thoroughly…
But this is pure conjecture and I could be way off (we’ll never know)…
Its safe to say its that or NYI Fan Central is actually a player and has been misquoted in the Strang article and is annoyed about it (those being his only comments ever and all) = P
So who is he? My bet is on Tambellini.
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 5, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Probably Philly just being jealous of the Isles' dilemma.
Holmgren: ‘So how much for Roloson?’
Snow: ‘Your 1st rounder’
Holmgren: ‘But….but…we traded that to Anaheim’
Snow: ‘For Chris Pronger. Have fun when he is getting on 40’
Holmgren: ‘How about a 4th round pick, future considerations. Everyone loves future considerations.’
Snow: ‘Nope. Have fun with Michael ’No Playoff Games Ever’ Leighton.’
Snow: Oh yeah, that Sbisa kid looked good at the Olympics… What about him?
Holmgren: Umm, yeah, we traded him to Anaheim in the Pronger trade too.
Snow: Really? Damnit, why couldn’t you wait to dump all your prized assets for an old Canadian?
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 5, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
Its safe to say its that or NYI Fan Central is actually a player and has been misquoted in the Strang article and is annoyed about it
How did you know?
I’m Jeff Tambellini and I want that extra goalie traded because they are hogging the peanuts and pretzels in the press box which Strang is not happy about either.
It is funny however that only the Islanders in Cablevision’s newspaper every year seem to have something anonymous from a player hit the paper to stir the pot with the fan base but we never see that level of reporting when it comes to coverage on Msg’s teams in the same paper.
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 5, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Now that we’ve got that settled, do explain how you perfected that shootout wrister?
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Dude, seriously, stop… Your argument is ridiculous. All reporters use anonymous sources no matter what their field is.
I didn’t hear you complaining when anonymous sources within the Rangers were bitching about Torerella during training camp.
Also, why would MSG want to screw with the Islanders? they may own the Isles biggest rival, but the Isles as well as the Sabres and Devils are cash cows when it comes to the cable rights. If anything they would want to squash a story that would agitate one of the teams they have a contract with. The last thing in the world MSG wants is when the broadcasting rights come up for renewal that the Islanders, Devils, ect. bolt for SNY or YES.
So yeah, Jeff, good luck now that it seems you’re out of the press box.
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 5, 2010 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, seriously, stop… Your argument is ridiculous. All reporters use anonymous sources no matter what their field is.
Ok, find us something anonymous out of cablevision’s newspaper critical of Garden management from a Ranger or a Knick player and not some small item on team conditioning where Drury is quoted. With the Islanders this seems a yearly practice in this paper.
Also, why would MSG want to screw with the Islanders? The last thing in the world MSG wants is when the broadcasting rights come up for renewal that the Islanders, Devils, ect. bolt for SNY or YES.
This is the same network that would not even give the Isles a pregame last year and fought them over the children foundations money when the Isles won the metro ice challenge a few years ago.
The cable contract runs until 2030 and pays them about 300 million dollars. The Garden would love to see the Isles leave and get out of paying that kind of cash and expand ever more into Long Island market like they did with Hartford.
Msg pays the Islanders to hide them and keep exposure to a minimum (see metro channel 2002 playoffs), when the contract was signed Msg pulled coverage entirely because the language at the time said the Isles get eighteen percent of all Msg revenue.
If you care to see the Cablevision and Newsday as the Islanders friends here that’s your business, but it does not make you correct.
The history and reporting on this says something else.
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/11/sports/tv-sports-rich-cable-deal-lessens-isles-misery.html
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 6, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 6, 2010 8:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Two swell uses of animation stills in one thread: Priceless.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
D-Fence
Also their have been a lot of different defensmen for the Isles this season. Striet, Hillen, Gervais, Meyer, Kohn, Macdonald, Sutton, Witt, Reese, and Martienek have all played for the Isles this year. I think the lack of defense continuity and consistency has been the biggest problem. I know in our system we have Ness, Harmonic, and de Hann but I don’t see this as enough. Lets assume it’s 2011-2012, we have traded 34 year old Streit who had a great run but maybe doesn’t just quite fit and we have traded him for the last piece to compete. So our defense, once again assuming they pan out all as NHL d-man might well end up as Macdonald, Ness, Harmonic, de Hann, ?, ?, ?, and ?. Now don’t go assuming I don’t know hockey is usually played with 6 d-men but if you go into a season with only 6 nhl defensmen your in trouble. So too fill in the 4 empty spots we may have 2 ufa’s/trades and Jack Hillen but that still won’t be enough. I think this year’s draft will be an important part in the “rebuild” in filling out the blue line. With our possible selection of 3-8 unless we get another dubie miracle playoff and get in or get really close and end up with a 10-14 pick. We have too seriously be thinking about taking Fowler, Gormley or Gudbranson with our first pick. Also trying to package picks to get a 22-29 pick and end up with Merril or Tinordi. We have a good crop of young fowards in the system or on the team and a goalie under contract for 12 more years with some big euro goalies waiting to move up so finally filling out the blue line will be the final piece of the puzzle to build a contender.
We need at least another top six too
and you are forgetting about Donovan, Kessel, Niemi, and Katic. If we are unable to trade down and move up again with Anaheim (kind of a long shot with the number of picks we have), I would trade down a few spots (assuming we are at #3), draft Nino, trade up our second rounder to get McIlrath, and with remaining picks get Forbort and / or Rutkowski as well as PF Cisse. Two forwards and two or three defensemen seems the right mix for our early picks.
I think the lack of defense continuity and consistency has been the biggest problem
Certainly agreed. Unfortunately, it is a necessity of a team that is trying to see what it has in its prospects on D. This strategy should pay dividends in the future.
As far as the question marks go – I think you can assume that Gervais and Hillen will be in the hunt (being RFA’s in 2011-2012) and Kohn (being RFA in 2010-2011). The advantage of these three would be that they would be reaching their prime at this point – so you probably expect that at least one of the three will take it to the next level.
The biggest issue with the Isles is the fact that they are missing that one blue chip prospect both at forward (hence BC touting Nino) and on D (hence your desire for a Fowler or Gormley). Obviously, there are other holes in the future – but the Isles really need that 1st line/1st pairing player to be drafted soon.
If they could figure out a way to move up and get Nino AND Gormley
I would find someway to express my appreciation for all God’s gifts.
Yep. But unlikely without an unacceptable cost – look at how many 1st were dealt near the trade deadline: zilch, if I recall correctly.
More on Nino
Checking out mynhldraft.com, it appears that Nino’s stock is rising. They have him pegged as going 9th overall in their 2010 NHL Mock Draft. The Isles need both forwards and defensemen, but I am on the fence as to thinking what the team should focus using their first pick on.
Mckenzie has Gormley and Nino #6 and #8 respectively
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=15660
Defensemen take longer to develop. You are more likely to get a star D in the second or third round than a star forward. If we couldn’t nab both Gormley and Nino, I would maybe trade down for a few second rounders and get Nino.
there is one long shot way
that I have mentioned before. If we get the #3, and I think we will, the Oil takes Taylor and I am guessing Boston is so stacked at C that they will take Fowler—that leaves Seguin the only remaining of the Three Amigos. Anaheim has two first rounders and would probably LOVE to have Seguin centering their second line. Get their two first rounders plus maybe their second rounder and then trade up. The trick would be collecting enough assets to do it. If they are playoff contenders, its unlikely. If they both finish in the 8-12 range, it might be doable.
Apart from that, Garth and Scott’s future plans may factor in. If they are starting to see Josh or JT as a LW, maybe they draft Seguin and use later picks for defense. Alternatively, they could trade down for 1-2 seconds, grab Nino or whoever they prefer as a top six, and use the collected picks to target certain players in a deep draft.
I don’t know if the Bruins will even take that pick. After all they have another pick in the 13-18 range and might decide to trade their first pick for another ligitame scorer or another offensive defensmen if they can clear the cap space but Derek Morris and his 3.3 million coming off the books helps. Also I’don’t know if trading Seguin for Anahiem’s two picks would be that good in the long run. Imagine the Isles with KO, Tavares, Bailey, Seguin, Moulson, and Scremp(?), but if we decide to trade for those picks we have to hope Philly and Anahiem fall out of the race and end up with maybe the 9th and 13th pick and take Nino and Forbert or Pysyk which would set the Isles up nicely for the next few years on the blue lines and for the fowards. Also I think we should compete for a playoff spot for the entire year next year or come very close
If the Bruins were going to trade their top pick,
they likely would have done so already and helped their playoff chances. Its my impression that they don’t tend to trade picks but rather collect them and use them. In any event, there was an article from a Boston paper cited in SI indicating that other GMs had given up on asking about that pick because Boston had shown no interest in trading.
Only way I see drafting Seguin is if Garth and Scott have decided to make either JT or Josh a LW. If Philly doesn’t make the playoffs, they will likely drop way down the totem pole as the East teams have lame point totals. Those two picks are currently #10 and #17. If they move down into the 8-12 range, we can probably move up enough to get Nino and Gormley. Gormley is the prize on D. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=518609#&navid=nhl-search
Hopefully we have picks left to get a bigger defender and a PF prospect.
wow, interesting times...
As often, Dom, I agree on lots of points.
Hopefully they were just blowing off frustrations.
It’s got to be that, I think. So, in order to make a good guess, I wonder who might have been frustrated most lately. Perhaps someone who contributed a lot until that losing streak and really felt that this was his season and he along with some other guys were on the way to take this team to the next level. Perhaps someone who’s had a tough stretch personally lately – who’s been disappointed in some way by the coach/management in getting traded/not getting traded/not getting the same responsibility anymore, etc. So, who’d fit in there? Perhaps Dwayne Roloson, Andy Sutton, Sean Bergenheim – anyone else?
The problem with this theory is that it would leave us with mostly “good guys”, by definition – with guys who’ve impressed us on and/or off the ice. And also with guys you wouldn’t expect to do it. So, not sure at all if my theory is the right one, actually ;-) But well, I personally would have Roloson and Sutton high up on the list indeed. Sutton because he badly wanted to stay, I think, and would obviously have had a better chance to stay if they’d still been (around) 8th at the beginning of this week.
Roloson because, well… From Botta’s live chat: “The only thing that surprised me [about how they handled the situation with DP coming back] – maybe it shouldn’t have – is how quickly they made Dwayne No. 1-B behind Rick once Rick won the shootout against Buffalo. That is probably at the heart of Katie’s excellent story today, is my educated guess.”
Now, this doesn’t mean Roloson has to be one of the guys quoted by Katie. Other guys might be frustrated as much as Roloson himself. But, going from MVP-like play to No. 1-B goalie, he’s obviously in the midst of it indeed. And despite DP being out again, it might get only worse. Gordon told Newsday today “whatever goalie gets on a roll, that’s the one who’ll play.” This and a few other rather reserved quotes from Gordon about Roloson over the last few weeks make me believe he didn’t like how Roloson had handled the situation.
But then again, I’d say, Rollie is a very honest guy indeed. So, it’s all speculation and might be terribly wrong…
Anyway, this whole goalie thing probably will keep the Isles busy for quite some more time. I don’t think they’ve made many bad decisions there lately, but a few things just haven’t worked out and it cost them – time and draft-pick(s) as well as the opportunity to hang around the 8th place a little longer this season. And it might have hurt the mood around the team, too, but leaving that out, the damage would still be acceptable. It even would bring them another lottery pick and that’s what they probably need most anyway. But sooner or later they’ll badly need better solutions…
Interesting theories — I know, you really can drive yourself in circles guessing who it would be. (And I don’t know enough about Roloson to hazard whether he’d go this route; but he is a frank guy. Part of my issue is that if any players are popping off about the team’s flaws, I want them to be on-target about what the team’s flaws are.)
Regarding how quickly Roloson became 1-B: I should add that it surprised me, too. I didn’t think they’d automatically share the starts so evenly. But again, using all three was going to create the same “out of the groove” problem, so Biron was rightly the odd man out. Meanwhile, DiPietro did need evaluating, and since he picked up some early wins, it made sense to use him again. The long-term goal is to test both his health and his endurance.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
The long-term goal is to test both his health and his endurance.
Absolutely. And it was the right way, as the Isles have to do whatever it takes to solve that whole problem around DP’s contract and their goaltending. That potentially could hurt them too much to not have it top priority. But at times the short-term plan will suffer. Of course, everyone signing with the Isles knew the most important plan was going to be the long-term one, but some always still will care a bit more about the near future and those guys have suffered a bit lately.
But as you say, it made sense. So did the signings last summer. I liked them a lot and therefore don’t want to criticize everything now. So, that’s not at all to blame Snow, but the plan obviously doesn’t look as good anymore as it did last summer. Biron is a great guy for sure, but might not exactly be as good (anymore) as you’d expect. And Roloson is almost certainly not the guy for such a situation with two or even three potential number-one goalies. But then again, who is? And Roloson has overall not been poor at all of course. No idea, either, who’d have been available and a better fit. But probably the decisions last summer didn’t maximize chances for this very tricky situation to work out…
The thing I did like about the Roloson signing is he’s the perfect age and ability for the situation. There really aren’t many goalies who can play at his level while they are obviously this close to the end of their career.
So whereas most good goalies see at least four good years left in themselves and would see the NYI situation as, “Oh, yeah, sign me up for three years of backup duty behind the guy who will get the nod because he’s on the 15-year deal,” Roloson’s timeline matches perfectly with the rehab situation.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Can we trust anything Newsday says?
Lets take a quick look at Newsday, They give the Islanders the most minimal of coverage, if they don’t have a game today or the previous day, there is likely to be no coverage in the paper that day. BUT there is always an article on the Rangers. WHY? because Cablevision owns the Rangers and Newsday.
Once Cablevision took over the paper it was if the Devils and Nets play in Japan…. absolutely NO coverage at all.. WHY?? because they compete with Cablevisions business interests… even in their best of the decade articles at the end of 2009 there was no mention of anything the Devils did and they only won a few Stanley Cups in that period.
If Newsday could get away with it, there would be no Islanders coverage at all. So until they put names to their quotes i don’t really trust their stories.
You mean trust the one negative-vibe story a beatwriter has written all season long rather than believe that the entire publication hates the Islanders so much that it instructs all of its writers — who all went to journalism school and presumably have some initial urge toward the truth — to make up “anonymous” quotes just for the sake of one day of bad press?
Yeah, I’m going with Katie Strang’s reporting on this one over the *Vast Newsday-Cablevision-Dolan Operation: Destroy Islanders Conspiracy™.
*VNCDODIC for short
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
You mean trust the one negative-vibe story a beatwriter has written all season long rather than believe that the entire publication hates the Islanders so much that it instructs all of its writers — who all went to journalism school and presumably have some initial urge toward the truth — to make up "anonymous" quotes just for the sake of one day of bad press?
Yeah, I’m going with Katie Strang’s reporting on this one over the *Vast Newsday-Cablevision-Dolan Operation: Destroy Islanders Conspiracy™.
You can go with what you like but there is long history of media problems with Msg by all means let the writers themselves tell you because it must be 10x more restricted with the few hockey writers:
http://www.observer.com/2007/life-knicks-hell#
And don’t you mean the first negative vibe story? This seems a yearly right of passage at Newsday now where the paper starts throwing out un-named sources or anonymous quotes of unrest only on the Islanders to stir up the fans and the team, this never happens with the Garden’s teams.
Look at what Phil Mushnick of the Post wrote only yesterday:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/hgh_tales_don_pass_the_smell_test_s5BdYjDynvlZAYNjrFAh6M
- Cablevision vs. ABC/Disney? In the 28 years I’ve been writing about TV, Cablevision has been in far more hassles than any other system and/or programmer. And the very best Cablevision has done during such times is to tell a half truth. But if trying to win public support by taking personal, issue-ducking cheap shots at opponents wins the day, the Cablevision/Dolan Gang is undefeated.
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 6, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Once again
I have plenty of complaints about Newsday and its history of Islanders coverage.
Accusing their beatwriter of making up quotes is not one of them. And, as you may have noticed, the point of this post was the Islanders, not the newspaper covering them.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
To me the main complaint that shows Newsday's disdain
is taking a veteran reporter who knew the Isles and hockey off the Isle beat and putting in his place someone whose only real experience was as an intern. If they had wanted to ADD her beat as another perspective to Greg’s that would have been one thing. As they say, living well is the best revenge. Two to four down the road hopefully we bring the Cup back to the Island just long enough to make Kate and the Dolans squirm as we plan our move to Queens and adopt the Daily News as our paper of record. Maybe we can even figure out an alternative to Cablevision as our broadcast outlet.
Accusing their beatwriter of making up quotes is not one of them.
I definitely understand that. I am pretty much positive that Newsday did not make up those quotes. What she did however make up was the story that makes it appear as if the quotes are related to one another. There is nothing there that shows them to BE related, other than the way Newsday chose to structure their article.
And now people are talking about how players are supposedly saying things that they didnt even say. Thats wrong, IMO.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 7, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
Now it's Wallace Matthews Turn to beat on Isles for Newsday.
This will be his first New York Islander article since Nolan’s departure. Seems they are all lining up at Newsday.
Funny but he never writes this kind of stuff about the Knicks or the Rangers.
by New York Islander Fan Central on Mar 6, 2010 8:14 PM EST reply actions
It’s probably his first hockey article in years, he typically writes terrible baseball articles. I would criticize Matthews, but I will leave that to the professionals.
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 6, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New Jersey
|
82 | 48 | 27 | 7 | 103 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
82 | 47 | 28 | 7 | 101 |
|
Philadelphia
|
82 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 88 |
|
New York Rangers
|
82 | 38 | 33 | 11 | 87 |
|
New York Islanders
|
82 | 34 | 37 | 11 | 79 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
Islanders Schedule
Next 5 Games
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@
Philadelphia
|
Wed 09/29 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
Calgary
|
Wed 09/29 | 8:00 PM EDT |
|
@
New Jersey
|
Fri 10/01 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
New Jersey
|
Sat 10/02 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
Montreal
|
Sat 10/02 | 7:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
|
Pittsburgh
|
Sun 04/11 | OT - L 5 - 6 |
|
@
New Jersey
|
Sat 04/10 | L 1 - 7 |
|
@
Pittsburgh
|
Thu 04/08 | L 3 - 7 |
|
Montreal
|
Tue 04/06 | SO - W 4 - 3 |
|
Ottawa
|
Sat 04/03 | W 4 - 1 |
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