Thrashers 6, Islanders 3: And it wasn't even *that* close
by Dominik on Mar 4, 2010 11:30 PM EST
in New York Islanders Game Recaps
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PrintThere was Blake Comeau's two posts (there he is again), but other than that I'm not sure how the Islanders managed to outshoot Atlanta 21-10 in the first period. They were reckless and irresponsible with the puck, forcing Dwayne Roloson to make several point-blank saves before he finally caved under multiple Islanders mistakes and odd-man rushes.
The first goal was just over five minutes in after a bad line change by John Tavares and Matt Moulson created a 3-on-2. Before the game was 10 minutes old, the Thrashers scored two more within 25 seconds of each other -- one after a neutral zone turnover and lazy backcheck, the other after Dustin Kohn mishandled a retrieval in the corner to Roloson's right. Ballgame.
Game Sum. | Event Sum. | Corsi | Recaps: nhl.com | Isles
A loss like this at this stage, for a team still claiming playoff aspirations, can bring out the poison in fans and players:
Already seen a few frustrated fan rants. And even before tonight's game, there was a curious amount of misplaced angst from anonymous (of course) players blaming the Isles' woes on the three-headed goalie monster [$5 please] instead of, you know, their 27th-ranked offense or their 29th-ranked powerplay or their 29th-ranked penalty kill. Yep. It's definitely the goalie crowd that put this team out of a playoffs pot, uh-huh. But more on that tomorrow.
I'd say tonight's mess was due to the ever-thinning and inexperienced blueline, but really it was a full-team effort of parts not moving together at critical moments. Forwards were watching and absent on the Thrashers' first three goals. They were hardly overmatched the way they were in Tuesday's fortunate win over Chicago; but they did plenty to cost themselves the game.
Visual Evidence of Carnage
This and That
- Tough to get a read on Dylan Reese in his his NHL debut; the game was over and the goalie pulled before he'd even taken his third shift in the league. He played 11 minutes, all even strength. he displayed a nice touch on the puck and mostly safe decisions. I'm sure he'll get the ease-in treatment; I wonder whether he or Kohn will prove the more useful down the stretch.
- Cheers to Mark Streit, Rob Schremp and Tim Jackman for popping in some consolation goals -- though ironically pinning mop-up goalie Martin Biron with the undeserved loss in the process.
- All frustrations and complaints aside, as a hockey fan I have to nod appreciation for some pretty offensive plays by the Thrashers. And every player an Atlanta fan would want to score did so: Nik Antropov with two, Maxim Afinogenov with another, and newcomers Clarke MacArthur, Nicklas Bergfors and Evgeny Artyukhin each potted goals. That's Ilya-replacement by committee right there.
- Schremp also had a secondary assist on Jackman's goal (Kohn had the primary). Think back to October now: Is there any way you expected the first two games in March would feature Schremp and Comeau as the two best performers? This, I believe they say, is why they play the games.
- Young stars John Tavares, Kyle Okposo and Josh Bailey still not really looking refreshed by the break.
- What do you suppose moved Scott Gordon to dress Jeff Tambellini, after all this time? Sean Bergenheim was a healthy scratch for the second consecutive game.
- Again, I'll probably address this in more depth tomorrow, but really now: It's pathetic to think any players are blaming the team's losing streak and drop from playoff position on the admittedly awkward three-goalie situation. Holy cop-out, Batman. How 'bout you just play the damned game?
These recaps are always meant for post-game reaction as well as a historical record of sorts to look back on when needed. So never hesitate to add your own reactions, or to correct/contradict/fill in anything I missed.
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If Only...
We KNEW our starter was Yann Denis… Then we could be a playoff team.
Seriously? Newsdays a joke. I’ve never ever heard a team complain about having too many talented goalies.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
“Look at where we were at, we had a playoff spot,” said a player who requested anonymity. “Then we went on a losing streak and now we’re on the outside looking in.”
Amazing.
Also said something about the organization never moving forward until they resolve it. I’m thinking, well yeah, this year (and next) was kind of about resolving this. That’s why they brought in two starters as insurance.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
The Dark Nite...
Looking back on that as the turning point you might say that some people might be a little tired of DP. There has been so much going on, but Ricky can be looked at as a tough luck guy who is trying hard to contribute… or somebody who has no business even being in the league with way too much influence on this team.
From somebody who doesn’t knwo squat about what goes on in the locker room here’s some fan speculation.
Lavy takes the team to the playoffs… Ricky is less than impressive in those playoffs. there are rumblings that a trapping system will suit Marty Jr. better… Lavy is gone.
The kid gets 15 years and $60M without winning a playoff series.
Nolan sits a healthy(?) DiPietro, with Snow (Goalie Nostra Capo de tutti Capo) as GM in favor of smurfish Dubie… Nolan’s gone.
They go out and get two solid starting goalies to play through Rick’s rehab… the team is unexpectedly in the mix… Rick gets 2 AHL games (doesn’t finish either) and is thrown into the rotation. I still don’t understand that.. Looking back at the season, as a fan, I would say THAT was the turning point as well. But as a player… you’d have to add the rest of the crap to throw Ricky (or Garth) under the bus for that move.
So who said it definitely mattters. If it was Trent (doubt it) who has lived through all of it, then it definitely carries Weight…. if it was Weight(don’t see him as being anon), it carries weight because the captain is the voice of the locker room.
If it was Sim… who cares.
If the locker room is pointing a finger at DP, it’s probably with good cause. It might be time for a buy-out. And if he comes back he can spend wang’s money in Kazakhstan with Alex and Borat.
Someone being scratched … or who thought they were on their way out? Or a UFA on his way out? Hard to say.
The three-goalie situation is unfortunate, I fully recognize that. (It was also quite clear going into the season that this would happen, and everyone was well aware of it when they signed on for their millions.)
But to pretend that’s what put this team where it is ignores that their January winning run happened with three goalies already around, and half of those wins were via shootout. Half of your best (and only, really) winning run of the season was by coin flip! Whichever player said “we had a playoff spot” suffers from the “born on third base thinking he hit a triple” syndrome.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
It just wreaks of the Sim/Guerin situation last year. Last year Sim (I think) made an issue of how the organization made a guy like Guerin dangle for crap. The only person it worked out for was Guerin. Snow got a 3rd rounder, and Sim was exiled.
Now the same organizational circus sends somebody else (?) to the mike. It ‘s got to be frustrating, and I don’t think winning/losing was as big as who’s running the show. My point above is that the $60M man dictates what happens. Every time he feels like he’s ready, all those guys are affected… and he never really is ready. So his reliability has to be questioned. You can add that to flooded locker rooms, bad ice, 40 year old arena and the hockey for dummies owner to the reasons why A listers don’t sign with the islanders.
My point above is that the $60M man dictates what happens. Every time he feels like he’s ready, all those guys are affected… and he never really is ready. So his reliability has to be questioned.
Yeah, I’m with you on that. And hopefully it’s just frustration boiling over. The sooner there is resolution on DP the better, but unfortunately there’s no way they can rush it (ironic that, since rushing him was always the norm).
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
The only way this team contends again is if JT starts scoring again
If he does, we may get back in contention and even win a playoff spot. If he doesn’t we are probably looking at #3 overall.
horrible first 15 minutes
especially in our own zone. we were getting good scoring chances but not getting back on D. it was 4-0 before I really even sat down to watch the game. I think losing 2 defensemen, Sutton and macDonald, may have really disrupted the chemistry of the D. I think a lot of us on here knew getting rid of Sutton was a bad idea, and then with a very decnt rookie like MacDonald going down a game later, I think it killed us.
Yeah, it was like a men’s league game in the beginning: We were getting some nice chances, but the forwards were just wandering out on offense, ignoring the whole idea of a backcheck, leaving odd-man rushes and Roloson under siege.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
JT
I thought he had some great passes the 1st 2 games back but he had a couple of chances to burry pucks and still seems to be a step too late. I noticed his ice time is down maybe he will fare better with less time and fresher legs
Comeau hit the post once andmaybe twice, looking good but hope that doesn’t mean his streak is totally over. Tamby had a few good shifts, fighting for the puck nice, and ripping a good shot that no one was in front to burry after a big rebound.
3 headed goalie monster
It is a weird situation that Garth Snw has had to deal with. I do think that the return of DP ruined the chemistry of the team. Rollie was playing great at that point and we had a great chance of staying in the playoff spot.
…but that said, how do you handle DP. He is the teams future because he has that 15 year contract, the dumbest contract since the Yashion deal. You have to try and get him back to speed for your playoff runs of the next 10 years. Maybe it should have been through a long string of games at Bridgeport, that is what I said and still believe because I questioned him staying healthy. He is out and because we destroyed the chemistry we are out.
Now are goaltending has played well, and it is our PK and PP that have faltered, but was that all due to chemistry? no one really can answer that.
Something else to chew on...
Moulson and Schremp are both RFAs… Somebody with a few draft picks to spare WILL make Snow dig a little deeper in Chuck’s pocket to keep them around…
… and if he loses both… adios NY Islanders….
HOLY SH** I didn't even think of that.
I’ve been blowing off the possibilty of GM’s giving offer sheets because of the potential compensation. But for guys like these, it wouldn’t be much.
Current Averaged Salary1 Draft Pick Compensation
$994,433 and below No compensation
$994,434 to $1,506,716 Third-round pick
$1,506,717 to $3,013,434 Second-round pick
$3,013,435 to $4,520,150 First- and third-round pick
$4,520,151 to $6,026,867 First-, second-, and third-round pick
$6,026,868 to $7,533,584 Two first-round picks and a second- and third-round pick
$7,533,585 and above Four first-round picks
So if, say, the Leafs, wanted Matt Moulson or Bergie or any of our other RFA’s, we’re looking at a 3rd or 2nd rounder at best because WE KNOW that Garth is not matching a deal for Moulson, Schremp, etc at $1M.
Schremp… For those who thought that Robbie had talent but they weren’t GOOD ENOUGH to be in last place past year… He has proven he’s an NHLer with talent as a 2 center. When he scored his first goal he wasn’t jumping in the air because he was excited about a goal… but possibly starting a career at $2M/yr isn’t a bad thing.
Moulson… $1.8M… you’d have to be desperate to offer him more, but the isles traditionally don’t double guys up….nevermind triple their fun. Sombody looking for a guy who scored 20 on a pitiful team can offer this and a second…
Hillen….. Snow may have dodged a bullet when Jack wasn’t able to. He’s worth Marty money… if Snow doesn’t give it to him somebody will part with a third. $1.5M
Bergie….. $1M… Snow has to offer him $950K… or he loses him for nothing. HOPEFULLY somebody thinks Bergie is that valuable… I’m a bergie fan… but it looks like snow either accepts a third rounder or he replaces Tambellini in the suite with a suit.
At least we’ll have a never ending supply of second round picks. I don’t think the offer sheet is used that often… I think, unlike last year, Snow will have some competition on the other side of the RFA table.
Interesting summer
Should be fun negotiations. I bet Snow would match in most cases (“hey, easy route to cap floor!”), but their policy of bite-size raises may put their RFAs in play.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Guess who's RFA the following year
Based on compensation, would a team like San Jose have much of a problem offering their first and third to the Isles for KO or Bailey??
It’s a good thing Kevin Lowe is not a GM anymore.
you forget that the cap is holding level or decreasing, which factors in to these pricings (may affect the compensation levels as well though too)
the fact is, any of these guys that we WANT to keep, they can AFFORD to keep, so we’ll know exactly how they feel about them when it happens
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
The root of all evil
This is the root of my negativity lately. Managing a team is an ever changing dynamic. You have short contracts long term ones, hi dollar and low. for some reason Sutton’s jettison (not worried about the return, more worried about the puzzle)
has me concerned about this summer and next year.
I figured the Isles would keep four defensemen who have been productive (Streit, Sutton, Hillen and MacDonald). They’ll have marty, Bruno and Witt for depth and they were still going to need to add one solid guy to upgrade from OCT2009.
Trading Sutton sends a message that even though he fit in the puzzle (almost perfectly) they would rather try to do this thing from the dollar store.
Sutton (and this is pure speculation on my part) probably accepts 2yrs @ $3-3.5M.
Now your options are:
1. Overpaying for somebody who may or may not fit in the system. Finding somebody with size who can “pinch”, engage and still play quality PK mins is not going to be easy.
2. Timeline issues. If you get an A-list guy who is 28-32 he’ll probably want 5 yrs. You’ve got a few kids in the system that should eat top 4 minutes…
3. RUSHING A PROSPECT…. <—— This is where I think the buck stops.
Snow has done a great job with a sub basement budget… but that’s not what the rebuild is about. .. it’s about getting results on a timeline… 30th, 27th then 25th when you leave opportunities on the table is the problem. they could have AFFORDED to put a better roster on the ice this year, but htey didn’t… and they were lucky to still be in it in January (Thanks to Roloson, Schremp and Moulson)
So.. we’ll see. I had a lot of faith in January… it’s slipping away. Got my fingers crossed.
Snow has done a great job with a sub basement budget… but that’s not what the rebuild is about. .. it’s about getting results on a timeline… 30th, 27th then 25th when you leave opportunities on the table is the problem.
This summer and next year’s first half will be big for me. I have complaints and reservations thus far, but they’re all in that murky stew of the early stages of the rebuild.
But the venue, free agency, the budget, those are variables I’d like to know more about by next winter to see how they’re going to follow through.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Accountability 101
It really is a mess. It’s hard to decide whether Snow deserves blame, kudos or pity. I know I don’t have much pity for Wang…My knocks on Gordon probably are the same reasons that guys like Schremp and Moulson were given opportunities in NY. Old school coaches would deal with their lack of heart9the team, not Rob and Matt)… this regime seems to embrace it.
I can’t get two images out of my head when it comes to Gordon. The F-bomb sitting on the bench while Sutter looked like Sherman burning down Atlanta, and Kyle skating away, with awkward glances towards a bloody Tavares, as he celebrated his goal. I’d have to think that Al or Scotty would have put a box of Tampex in his locker after that display… Pat Quinn would have him and his xBox on the waiver wire the next morning… Which I conjured from (my opinion plus) something Botta blogged about earlier this season regarding Moulson and RSH.
the only one anyone is going to splurge on is Moulson
Obviously he has shown himself to be the real thing. Schremp has shown that he has some game, but no one is going to draft picks of any real value for him.
RSH v A dart
So you have a 25 year old guy who finally gets an opportnity and puts up 25pts in 42 games as a middle six center and he’s not worth a dart… a second round dart at that. Wow…
I think real teams that don’t start from scratch can give up a 5 year wait on a seed for a kid that can fill a role today.
maybe we’ll just have to agree to disagree here. i think the only reason it isn’t done more is a unwritten law amongst GM’s not to screw with the fragile economics of the game. By their RFA years the offer sheet is supposed to be an escape hatch for a buried prospect (bergie “might” fit into this category, depending on perception). But GM’s simply won’t do it… maybe it’s respect or maybe it’s collusion.
If Andy Sutton, a proven veteran defender
is barely worth a late second round pick, why on earth would a GM give up a second for a guy who was claimed off the wire at the start of the year and is just now having a modestly productive year for the first time at age 25? Moulson is a little different simply because he has had what you can only call spectacular success given the moribund quality of the rest of the offense.
apples and oranges
Becasue he’s 25 and you’re paying for the upside, not a rental with games… that was easy… next.
Look what Kessel was worth for Burke NOT to write up an offer sheet. Schremp isn’t on the same planet as kessel, but he’s not in the same universe with a 20 game rental.
How do you know what upside he has?
He has been modestly successful for part of one season whereas Andy is a proven veteran who almost certainly will be re-signed by Ottawa which cannot afford Volcenkov. You are right. They are not in the same universe.
Different universes
But that’s the point, really: Team A seeking Sutton wants 20 games and a playoff run out of him. Team B seeking Schremp wants a cost-controlled center who has just proven — in his first real opportunity — that he can score points in this league and will be in their control for a while.
Not sure where the certainty comes in for Ottawa re-signing Sutton. They don’t even know if he fits yet. They also claimed they wanted to re-sign Comrie.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
They need a cost effective replacement for Volcenkov
who doesn’t fit in their cap structure. They didn’t just get Andy for depth. I must have seen a half dozen Sen posters going on about that. Schremp has had modest success over what is basically half a season. No way does that translate into a second round pick in this market.
“upside” implies potential. You are correct that Sutton is proven, and they may resign him… but all they get for their second rounder is the remainder of the season and the right to negotiate. If he doesn’t test the UFA waters, it would be a mistake.
You are surprising me, if you can’t see the difference between what you get by giving up a draft pick for the rights to a RFA v the trade deadline acquisition of a pending UFA. I don’t see a common denominator there at all.
As far as your comment about
why on earth would a GM give up a second for a guy who was claimed off the wire at the start of the year
He didn’t last to the second team… if the Isles passed he might have made it past TB, but you’d have to assume he’d be putting up nice numbers in COL.
Here’s a better question. Let’s say he’s going to get $XM from whoever signs him… if you don’t have his rights would you give up a second rounder for them?
I do that in a heartbeat after seeing him play at the NHL level. That’s something you just don’t get with a second round pick, you never see them play against men before you draft them.
my point is that I don't see how you can assume a second round pick worth of upside
based on what Schremp has done so far. Give me another example of a team offering a second round pick for a player that has a half season of experience.
your argument is a player with a half year of success v a kid who’s never lived without adult supervision…. Some of them haven’t even been to an NHL game, nevermind played in 50 of them.
Just look at the 2005 draft. 5 years later there are 4 players with >100 games. that’s a 13.33% chance of getting a “player”.
Dustin Kohn was our 2nd rounder… Would you trade Schremp right now for a five year wait for Dustin Kohn.
In that case… trade the whole team for draft picks, because none of them have ever scored 30 goals… and you might find a 30 goal scorer in 4 or 5 years if you have enough picks.
“Give me another example of a team offering a second round pick for a player that has a half season of experience.”
++++ I got my quotes down now…. I’m good +++++++++++
Give me the right to tap every GM’s phone ans I’ll try to find one for you. You’re not going to see any because you’d be an idiot to give up a guy like Schremp for a second rounder.
Somebody please explain to me
why JT was playing with park?
worst 2 +/- guys on the team, why not bring witter back up as a LW to play with them so we can assure that the other teams score against them every 3rd shift
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Slump
I don`t see whats wrong with some more losing. I realise it can wear on people and it may have an effect on long-term development but, it is the job of the coaching staff to ensure that losing doesn`t change the mindset of the younger players. Losing is ok for this team right now. You want to make the playoffs? Why? Finish 8th and then get swept by the Caps? Look at what happened when Garth traded 3 prospects for Smyth (the ONE move he`s made that I don`t like). We finished 8th and got swept. All that does is ruin our draft position. We need one of Hall, Seguin, or Fowler. Plain and simple. Our next 4 games are a bear, Philly, Boston, Stl, NJ. I could easily see a 5 game losing streak. Probably puts us below Carolina and only ahead of Toronto and Edmonton. Think big picture people. Washington and Pittsburgh didn`t get good by continually finishing 8th. Depressing I know, but, just think, in 3 or 4 years, Islander dynasty.
I remembered that the NHL Center Ice free preview was running last night
so I scrambled to turn the game on when I got home from work, as I haven’t gotten to watch a full Islanders game since my Christmas break two months ago, and the score was already 4-0. I watched the rest of it (I even skipped The Office for it!) b/c it’s so rare for me to get to see the Islanders outside of NHL.com highlights, but boy was it ugly. Technically, I saw the Isles outscore them 3-2, but that was a fluke and probably wouldn’t have happened if the Isles weren’t already getting blown out.
I was holding out a slimmer of hope that they could get hot and sneak into the playoffs, but after watching that game last night I just don’t think they’re quite good enough yet. My dreams of scalping tickets to the Verizon Center for an Islanders-Capitals first round matchup seems to have been dashed. Oh, well – maybe next year.
2009 Did Not Happen
This is still a jekyll and Hyde team
They can play like world-beating contenders or tank for Taylor. I think that they need another star top six for their second line and they need someone like Volcenkov on their blueline with Mark. Hopefully Lighthouse and the DP situation will be resolved by next September.
Hopefully Lighthouse and the DP situation will be resolved by next September.
God willing, man, God willing. I fear neither will be. WIth DiPietro out again now, it’s probably going to creep into training camp and the first half of next season again.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I think it is time for Wang and Snow to have a meeting of the minds
Snow: This is crunch time, Boss. I NEED to make some noise on the FA market this summer. It is critical for the future of the franchise that I do so. It will be next to impossible to do that if there isn’t resolution on Lighthouse. Can’t we get it moving? And should we talk about buying out DP if he won’t retire?
Wang: Debbie (who knows what his secretary’s name is?) Can you get me Neil Smith?
forget about neil
This is Charles Wang we’re talking about… the next in line for Snow’s job is somebody in the Wang family. Here are some candidates:
Siksinch
Don Tuchmy
Tase T.
Dat Smi
Yeah, I know… don’t quit your day job…
LOL. I swear I’d never use emoticons but sometimes I feel I have to just to mitigate misinterpretation.
Next GM: Chris Dey.
Serious contention: My oh my, I hope Snow has already told Wang long ago that he needs to spend real money this summer. Three top-10 drafts in a row, it’s time to look at what you got and supplement for real.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
But I think he also needs to make it clear to him how critical this FA is
and how important it is for any sort of good news about the Isles’ future. Something that suggests that they are really making a move toward finalizing a post-2015 future.
by BCISLEMAN on Mar 5, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
AMEN!
We’re bickering about goalies, third line LWs and the RFA situation and they haven’t even figured out where to play in 2016 yet.
You can’t discount the fact that Charlie can always put up the FOR SALE sign.
A nice undrafted college signing would be nice to nibble on… or Rhett making a cameo. Just don’t want to see the crap hockey we saw to close out last year.
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Thu 02/16 | 8:00 PM EST |
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Carolina
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Sat 02/18 | 7:00 PM EST |
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Ottawa
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Mon 02/20 | 1:00 PM EST |
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Tue 02/14 | W 3 - 1 |
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Montreal
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Tue 02/07 | SO - W 1 - 0 |
Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
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New York Rangers
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55 | 37 | 13 | 5 | 79 |
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Philadelphia
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56 | 31 | 18 | 7 | 69 |
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Pittsburgh
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56 | 32 | 19 | 5 | 69 |
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New Jersey
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56 | 32 | 20 | 4 | 68 |
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New York Islanders
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56 | 24 | 24 | 8 | 56 |
(updated 2.15.2012 at 8:59 AM EST)
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