Rare Case: When missing the playoffs sounds just fine, thanks
by Dominik on Mar 23, 2010 6:13 PM EDT
in Big Picture Musings
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PrintCherish this moment in time, won't you? Because this should better be the last time in a while where the Islanders miss the playoffs without it being at least a marginal disappointment for most fans. (I know fan opinion is varied, but gimme a break here, I'm trying to really capture the spirit of the thing.)
That's not to say missing the postseason in 2010-11 isn't quite possible (and even quite likely, given how tight the OTL-era playoff races always are). But this April should be -- considering where the Isles are in the rebuild and where my mind was before the season -- the last time the more guarded among us are 100% comfortable with the Islanders falling short. Today we can take solace in the little pitter-patter of baby steps in the form of three very good players 21 and under, or perhaps five 25 and under. We can see things moving upward. We can see solid reasons for hope (on the ice, anyway) without feeling like something was wasted this season.
Contrast that with fans of other teams who walked into this season either holding or being told to hold higher expectations of their squads right now. The Flyers after the Chris Pronger trade. The Rangers after essentially subtracting Scott Gomez for Marian Gaborik -- and essentially wasting a healthy year of Gaborik. The Bruins after a strong year fell two rounds too short last season. Even the Lightning after adding Victor Hedman to a nucleus that included Vincent Lecavalier, Martin St. Louis and a breakout Steven Stamkos.
And that's just a glance at the East.
In the West you had Calgary which expected to contend with the addition of JayBo, Dallas which had ideas of returning to the playoffs, Anaheim which knocked off San Jose last spring and added Saku to help the Finnish Flash once more, Columbus with the implication they would build on last year's first-round sweep, and St. Louis who created what I thought were premature expectations with a miracle second-half run last season.
Whether they bought the expectations or not, fans of those teams all have some funk to deal with. For those that miss the playoffs, it's a bit of a mercy kill by now -- an alternative to an 8th seed execution, playoff ticket money redirected toward food and gas. For those that limp in like (presumably) the Flyers, it's with resignation. For our buddies the Rangers, it's with a boiling feeling of disgust at another year steered without a plan. For the Lightning, it's what was a playoff seed a month ago plummeting under an infighting unproven GM-coach tandem, and squandering another year of Lecavalier and St. Louis' prime.
Depending on how you consume your sports, you might deem lower expectations as pathetic. That's your right. I'm not practicing dime-store psychology or kool-aid advocacy here.
But knowing where I've been as an Isles fan, I'll take the current plan and modest progress -- with reason for hope -- over the maddening aimlessness that came before it. For today, that's enough for contentment: I can look at a third straight playoffs without the Islanders and feel lament, but hardly devastation. I can look at other teams and find solace in lacking their angst. I can digest this playoff miss without taking the knives out -- not yet.
But I know it won't always be this way.
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I think this was a produtive season. We’re starting to see who will be in our long term plans and who won’t, we were in the playoff race for most of the season and one point in the playoffs by a couple of points, and I think we showed teams we are no one to sleep on (Chicago, Detroit, Vancouver). This could have been the best scenario because we weren’t out of it by December and we still get a chance at a high pick and get a Hall or Seguin without an awful collapse, but if we land in the 4-6 range maybe trade down and get a player or another pick + Nino.
I forget where I wrote it now, but I know my attitude entering the season was: “Hope we stay in the playoff bubble long enough to make the deadline interesting, and maybe a few non-disastrous injuries knock us back down into prime lottery territory.” Still quite a few games left to determine lottery position, but we’ll see.
If they had what it took to make the playoffs, I’m sure the experience would be nice. But they don’t, and the experience of squeaking in and getting hammered can have some bad side effects (inflated yet unrealistic expectations/evaluation of your talent being one of them).
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Sounds like the Blue Jackets scenario. Wasn’t it I think 2 years ago when the Blackhawks just missed the playoffs to extend a long streak of missed playoffs but then the next year they got to the WCF and now are one of the best teams in the league. I’m not going to say we will be as good as Chicago is in 2 years because they were losing a lot longer than we where but not getting swept in the first round to maybe be a 6 seed possibly next year and somehow win a series or go deep in one would be better long term effect for competing.
I wrote that the Isles were an enigma to me
I felt that they could finish anywhere from one to fifteen depending on injuries and how DP and JT performed. I had high hopes for Moulson but even I would never have predicted that he would be our leading scorer. And no one could have foreseen the wonders of Rob Schremp Hockey.
The real story of this season was always the developmental progress this team made. Gordon has identified a successful top line. Players like Josh, Kyle, and Blake have begun to show their potential as have Hillen and MacDonald. Garth has opened the door to bringing Petrov over the pond at last which will give Gordon the nucleus of a potent second line. And we are at least a step closer to resolving the DP mess. In short, the team has come a long way in a season and I, for one, am pleased.
Garth is still two players away from getting the core in place. He needs a quality top six and a top four. He needs to add size as well as talent. One question that will likely determine where he goes with his first pick is whether he sees De Haan as the future #1 and will be content to just add a top four quality defenseman with his second rounder or whether he wants to upgrade by drafting Brandon Gormley who seems to be the prototypical Snow pick. A lot will depend on draft position. If we are in #2 or #3 position, we might well be able to draft Tyler Seguin and move JT to LW. This might present a dilemma if Philly falls out of the playoffs and sinks to say a #10 pick and Anaheim is #9. If we made that trade down, we might well be able to trade up and get Nino and Gormley. That would not only complete the core, but, given that these two might well make the roster next year, could have a decisive impact on playoff hopes next year as well.
Then, of course, there’s DP and Lighthouse. Oy!
Hmm
Who is the projected number 1 in 2011? I hope it has the same pleasant ring as “Tank for Taylor Hall!”
The team should make program next season. I’m a little concerned that without an UFA addition or two, however, it might not be in the cards.
I would think all we would need is 1 more solid dman at the very least and hopefully Garth picks up 2, with one of them being an under the radar pickup ala Streit/Moulson.
Come on Isles! 11-0-0 or 10-0-1 I'm not picky! Playoffs!
I have a lingering fear that this was Coulson’s one hit wonder season.
Going to be very hard to get decent UFAs here this off season without seriously overpaying. Given the trouble we have hitting the floor, though, I don’t mind.
Nat Coulson is going to be a star
and I have already told somebody at NHL.COM that he will finish with better stats than Wayne Cashman…so he’d better. Seriously, he’s the real deal. I suspect that as our talent level improves, he’ll wind up being a comsistent 30-30 guy.
Plus I give Snow credit not to hand out a Redden type deal ala the Rangers. If he has to overspend, it’ll be for someone that will at least come close to reaching the value of the contract.
I think Moulson’s too good for it to be a one hit wonder. Here’s an interesting article from Jewels from the Crown (The Kings site) that was posted before the Isles – Kings game about Moulson.
http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/2010/3/20/1382863/who-thought-moulson-could-do-what
Come on Isles! 11-0-0 or 10-0-1 I'm not picky! Playoffs!
That was really interesting; I should’ve linked to it then.
I had my worries about him being a one-hit wonder — and I don’t expect him to hit 30 really, but falling short of that won’t be a disappointment to me. He’s just a smart hockey player with a knack for getting to the right spots and a decent conversion rate.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Was actually thinking about that this morning
Loaf for Larsson? Lollygag for Larsson? Sounds like he is as much a consensus as Tavares was a year before his draft.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
I think it will be between him and Hopkins and maybe a late riser like Seguin this year and Duchene last
The draft is weak but there is good talent at the top.
It would be a lot cooler to come up with something if it was Larsson’s brother Hampus Larsson that was the phenom.
We're doomed. Doomed!
by David Hanssen on Mar 23, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering how it seemed that everyone wrote us off (hockey prospectus I’m looking at you), this is one of the better Islanders seasons I’ve followed in a while. Lets not even consider the lost close games, or the difference that better special teams could make. During the season we saw big play for different stretches of time from Okposo, Tavares, Bailey, Moulson, Schremp, Hunter and Streit. We saw how good this team can be when any two of them are on fire at the same time. Now imagine how good this team can be if four or five of them get going next season, just the thought of it is beautiful.
My one worry about next season? That Rollie is another year older. As people have pointed out, for Rollie’s age, he’s only played 500 career games. Interestingly he’s faced 1,300 or so shots, and the Isles have blocked 1,200 shots for the year.
Come on Isles! 11-0-0 or 10-0-1 I'm not picky! Playoffs!
Roly will be fine
DP’s situation and the progress of our G prospects will determine if Garth goes out and gets a 1A. I am sure we will be fine in net. In fact, we will be in enviable shape that way if we go into the playoffs with a guy who has taken a rather mediocre team to the Cup Finals.
To be fair to Hockey Prospectus, they projected the Isles to finish 30th and they currently sit in . . . 28th. That’s not very far off.
Two wins were 23rd so I think Prospectus was thinking of a dead last team out of the race 30 games or less in. Not really what this team was doing this year.
Two wins were 23rd so I think Prospectus was thinking of a dead last team out of the race 30 games or less in. Not really what this team was doing this year.
Exactly.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 23, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, not really. You guys are projecting fan bitterness on to the prediction. It was not an overly negative piece.
Someone has to finish in 30th, and before the season started the Islanders were among the most reasonable choices for that “honor.” And the fact that they’re currently sitting near the bottom of the league simply confirms it was not a bad prediction.
Some mathematical perspective:
The Islanders are fifteen points away from 30th.
They are only thirteen points out of 5th place in the conference.
So they are closer to 5th seed than they are to 30th place.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 23, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
well 27th depending on what happens with Tampa tonight
but I don’t think that is a true reflection of what the team did this year. They have shown flashes of brilliance that promise much better and that has been without JT putting together—as yet—even what I would have thought as a minimally successful season (25-25-50).
WOW
without JT putting together—as yet—even what I would have thought as a minimally successful season (25-25-50).
You have an interesting definitition of “marginally successful” BC.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 23, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
MINIMALLY successful, note even marginally lol!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 23, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but they made the Isles sound like a team that would have trouble staying on their feet while tieing their shoelaces.
We’re 28th, but we’re not that many hit goalposts from being 8th or 9th.
Come on Isles! 11-0-0 or 10-0-1 I'm not picky! Playoffs!
27th according to NHL.COM
unless Tampa picks up a point tonight and they are down by a goal in the third against the Canes.
Psychic WebBard
I shall now go and play the Lotto
Come on Isles! 11-0-0 or 10-0-1 I'm not picky! Playoffs!
Repeating 30th is hard to do
My main issue with anyone picking them 30th was that it’s just poor betting: It’s really hard to finish 30th two years in a row.
Basically, every season you can count on one already weak team to bottom out because of a scourge of bad luck or injuries or bad coaching or all of the above. In other words:
- A team loses Ales Hemsky for the year and bets on the health of Khabibulin;
- Or a team trots out Yann Danis and Joey MacDonald and loses all of its already average centers to hip injuries;
- Or a team gets a management team of clowns who make bad movies, shady highly leveraged golf developments, acquire 18 defensemen and hire Barry Melrose to coach. (okay, I’m combining years with TB, but even that cluster of an ownership group couldn’t master finishing last two years in a row).
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Not out of the realm of possiblity
The 30th place has won the lotery twice and probability would lead one to beilieve a 29-27 finisher would get the pick.
by rockhouse15 on Mar 23, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be fine with that
Purely in the interest of seeing more entertaining verbiage coming from Oilers fan writers, of course. They really do have this drill down.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
They would only need someone to center them. ;)
(Seriously…what if Bailey stayed at wing? Stranger things have happened.)
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Hall is a LW as is Nat Coulson
Bailey would need to play center…and why would he do anything else with his old Spitfire linemate?
I suppose Hall and Bailey could trade places from time to time
and Comeau could play RW until hopefully Petrov was brought over and became NHL-ready. When that happens, the hopes and dreams of so many on this blog would perhaps be realized and Hunts possibly would be traded.
I don't see how Hunter being traded would be a good thing
Unless over the next two drafts we completly bulk up we need Hunter. We have almost nothing on right wing with our only real prospects are Brian Day, Krill Petrov, and Rhett with Krill having the only size but he would a second line offensive winger not a balls to the wall aggressive 2 way winger we have in Hunter. If we get a big winger back in a deal with Hunter or we draft one over the next two years I wouldn’t touch him. We get him cheap at 2 million for the next 4 years
didn't say I favored it
but getting Petrov over here might make it possible to move Hunts. And getting Hall might create the kind of buzz that would also enable us to reel in a big time RW FA like Artyukhin.
I try not to let myself think about it because 1) Betting on getting any Russian over here is dangerous, and 2) He’d still need development time either way. But man, if he delivered as billed, what a HUGE bonus that would be.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
see my fanshot
with attendance being what it is in the KHL, I believe that all Garth would have to do would be to get Wang and the NHL to agree to have the Isles play exhibition games in Russia including against Kazan in 2011 and they would ship Petrov over here with a bow on him in a heartbeat.
That’s a lot of ifs…and I’d bet Don Bettman would have something to say about anyone trying to arrange a KHL barter. They can’t establish a precedent like that.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
why would he do anything else with his old Spitfire linemate?
Just noting that Bailey has been better on the wing than at center thus far in his career. You mentioned JT moving to the wing, but you never know how this all shakes out.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
He hasn't had Hall on his wing before
I have a feeling he will be QUITE good with Hall to dish to…although I could see Gordon flipping them from time to time. If we get Hall, I promise I will not worry about which one is playing wing.
If we get Hall, I promise I will not worry about which one is playing wing.
Haha, yes me neither.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Is getting Plekanec an option. If he doesn’t get paid, which it doesn’t seem like with 2 RFA Goalies along with some other free agent fowards and only <15 million to work with, we could give him money to put us over the floor. That will give us KO, Bailey, Tavares, Moulson, draft pick, and Tomas for a top 6 then put size like Martin, Jesse, and Hunter. We can also put some skill, Frans, Rob Schremp, and aggresivness, Comeau and Bergenhiem to fill our bottom 6. But If this scenario does play out it will be hard to put Park in this if he is resigned unless our draft pick isn’t NHL ready or a defensmen
No Surrender!
I hope they continue to play as they have been. Competing every night and staying in games. If they can’t lose their way to Gormley, another Danny Flynn defenseman (see Andy Mac), they should be able to win their way to Nino. If Garth can work his free agent magic I’d like the way the team sets up going into next year.
I haven’t seen Gormley play, but I’d expect a top 5 pick to get his 8 games on this thin Islander D…. You never know. As I’ve said before, I’d hope that the team has progressed to the point where they can allow prospects to develop at a more conservative rate.
If they wind up with Nino, that’s not such a bad thing either because they will have [moderate] strength at the LW POS and should be able to move some assets around over the summer.
Either way, it should be interesting. We all need to step up our expectations for next year. That means, for the first time, Gordon needs to feel the pressure of having a young, talented team. To do that there needs to be at least two additions on D (Martinek can be one). We should also go into next year with the expectations of seeing at least one of the current AHL goalies as an NHL backup, and possible future F/T NHL goalie.
Let’s not forget that Snow has used the undrafted college FA pool with some moderate success… so there may be some more depth signings coming even before the end of the season.
As much as I was disappointed with letting Sutton go, there are plenty of things to be optimistic about.
Jesus would probably turn the other cheek too… but in a league where everybody walks on water I bet you couldn’t get a third rounder for the lord at the deadline.
I’d hope that the team has progressed to the point where they can allow prospects to develop at a more conservative rate.
I hope so, too. I guess the only way to ensure that is for Garth to open the wallet and/or venture into the trade market this summer. Lot of moving parts, but at least he can’t stop until he reaches the cap floor.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Look at the fanshot video interview I posted of Gormley
His coach seems to think he can make the team and play in his first year. And Gormley seems the prototypical Snow draft pick. If we could figure out a way to get another first rounder and Garth could move it up to get Nino, I wouldn’t be surprised to see both players make the team.
nino wont even be 18 when the isles hold prospect camp…
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
yes, his birthday is in September
so he’d either have to make the team or go back to Portland for a year.
We should also go into next year with the expectations of seeing at least one of the current AHL goalies as an NHL backup, and possible future F/T NHL goalie.
YES! I totally agree, but its remarkable how many Isles fans dont ever want to give ANY of them a chance next season.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
NO
not if we are looking at competing for a playoff spot next year. If we go into the season with an AHLer backing up Roly, Garth’s playoff comment was just blowing smoke.
See?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 24, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I see, but do you?
If you want to know what the Isles might look like with an AHL goalie, think back to how JT got to put on an Isles uni/
Look- we are allowed to feel the way we feel. There is absolutely no need for you to get upset over it. I personally do not think that it makes sense to eternally deem all goalies who do not already HAVE NHL experience as unworthy of EVER GETTING NHL experience. If you think that philosophy is fine, good for you.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 24, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see bringing the most promising ones up to get in some games
I cannot see relying on one as a backup with a 41 yo goalie and an invalid as being the other options. If you do, then, yes, we disagree.
Please think about what you just said- how many games does a backup (not a 1A, a backup) even play? If the Isles bring up the promising one*S* as you just said, and a couple of them get some games, then you figure Rick gets a couple games at absolute minimum, well then doesnt that cover all the backup games? When is this mythical OTHER backup goalie supposed to be playing, then? Is he going to take away starts from Roloson?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 24, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He would be playing about as many games as Biron this year
to rest a 41 YO goalie. More to the point, if the 41 yo goalie goes down in the middle of the first season since Ryan that this team has genuinely competed for a playoff spot, said effort is less likely to go down the crapper if we have a goalie who has proven that he can compete at the NHL level as backup.
that’s how they looked with 2 sharing the load, you’re talking about 1 playing backup maybe 12-15 games, huge difference
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
But he will be backing up a 41 year old and an iffy DiPietro. It’s basically this year but with Roloson a year older. It’s not a huge difference, if your GM has flat out stated that his goal is to make the playoffs next year, you cannot go into next season with just Roloson backed up by Lawson and DiPietro rehabbing.
We're doomed. Doomed!
by David Hanssen on Mar 24, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, bob.
Even if you DOUBLE that number make it 20-something games… if you split them up between giving a taste to a few of the Bridgeport kids AND giving some starts to DiPietro, I do not see how there are enough backup games remaining there to make getting yet ANOTHER goalie any kind of a priority for this club. Having Biron here this season prevented the Isles from giving any NHL time to all the goalies they have in the AHL, just like I said it would. If they ahve another NHL goalie up with Roloson and DiPietro next year, theres another season where those kids will not get a taste of anything.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 24, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Having Biron here this season prevented the Isles from giving any NHL time to all the goalies they have in the AHL
This would be true if Lawson and Munroe were considered prospects with a future in the organization or if Koskinen was healthy and playing well this year. but that’s not the case. Where does the infatuation with these two guys, one that was released by Philly last year and the other who looked set to be a career ECHLer before the goalie crisis of last year, come from?
We're doomed. Doomed!
by David Hanssen on Mar 24, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
INFATUATION?
This is probabbly the first time I have EVER talked about either of them. Holy shit.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 24, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Then why are you defending them so much?
We're doomed. Doomed!
by David Hanssen on Mar 24, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Could you show me where I am doing that? If you wanted to make a case here that I am defending anyone, it would be Roloson!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 24, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
You did at the beginning of this tangent when you agreed with JP’s remark about giving the two CURRENT Bridgeport goalies a shot.
We're doomed. Doomed!
by David Hanssen on Mar 24, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreeing with the idea of giving them a shot is not me “defending them So much”- sorry.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 24, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW there are THREE current Bridgeport goalies, not two. One of them was just injured.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 24, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Clarification
Being that I started this…
What I would like to see, and what I expect as of today is:
1. there are three goalies who have had some level of success this year in NA(Munroe, Lawson and Poulin), and two MORE who have the potential to push for AHL starts next year(Koskinen and Nilsson).
2. Poulin is 20 next month, so I think they’ll make a decision on him soon (if they haven’t already) You’d have to think he goes to Utah or BP next year.
3. Koskinen was supposed to be in the AHL this year, and will almost definitely be there next year.
4. Why lose BOTH Munroe and Lawson? I’d have to say that one of them starts in BP and the other as the NHL backup.
5. If Rolly goes down early, Houston, we have a problem… but AHL goalies with no NHL experience have carried teams in the past… and we’d have three, maybe four to choose from next year… I’d rather see two or three get a taste, than sign somebody else and create more havoc like last year.
6. If DP finds the cure, moving, or sitting Munroe or Lawson isn’t going to cause the same problem as putting a million dollar guy on the shelf.
There are nine goalies in the organizaton… why sign more?
…and if you want to reference last year’s goalie disaster I will make these counter-points points.
Both got NHL jobs this year. The Isles blundered by not keeping Yoda in the fold. Danis and MacDonald got KILLED because the ISLANDERS SUCKED… How many games included 2-3 minute periods where they couldn’t get the puck out of their own zone? A very high percentage of rebounds (goalie’s fault) became goals (terrible defensive play).
Jesus would probably turn the other cheek too… but in a league where everybody walks on water I bet you couldn’t get a third rounder for the lord at the deadline.
4. Why lose BOTH Munroe and Lawson? I’d have to say that one of them starts in BP and the other as the NHL backup.
First off, Munroe is good as gone. He will be a UFA at the end of the year and I highly doubt the Isles will resign a 28 year old career AHLer on his second organization for another go around.
Lawson, an RFA and 27 at the begining of next season, will probably be out the door right behind him especially if Ridderwall and Nilsson are brought over from Sweden.
So think about it, next year the goalies currently under contract are DiPietro, Roloson and Koskinen, Poulin and one of the Swedes will also probably be signed to entry levels. Even if Lawson stuck with the organization, behind a 41 year old Roloson and IR-ick DiPietro that is a very young, very inexperienced group to hold down the fort. Snow has said he expects this team to compete for the playoffs next year. You need the Biron-like insurance policy if you are expecting that with the age and injury history of the two veteran goalies under contract.
We're doomed. Doomed!
by David Hanssen on Mar 24, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
10 little indians...
Snow has said he expects this team to compete for the playoffs next year.
Let’s be real for a moment. The Islanders aren’t going to be much until the number 2 and 3 goalies in the organization are gone. This team hasn’t and most likely will not win under Flash… and the DP madness has to end at some point.
If DP mans up and retires, then I agree with you. But until he does I don’t want to see more money spent on band aids in goal that have to sit in disgust so wunderkind can figure it out some more.. Give Munroe or Lawson a shot rather than plugging another guy into the void.
If they are both gone, then you have the same situation in Bridgeport next year that you had in Uniondale last year… and everybody in that long chain of goalies feel like they’ll never get a shot unless they want to hand in the catching glove and learn how to skate backwards.
Fix the BIGGER issues… DEFENSE and COACHING… Last night was a pretty good indication that they are and will continue to be BROKEN… even with a great goaltending performance.
Maybe the solution is to let Munroe go (walk), give Lawson the backup job and let the three kids get all the time in BP. At some point they have to see what they’ve got.
Jesus would probably turn the other cheek too… but in a league where everybody walks on water I bet you couldn’t get a third rounder for the lord at the deadline.
Absolutely not
We do not need Lawson as backup. We need a 1A. This team, with a decent injection of talent from the draft and FA, should be able to compete for a playoff spot. The last thing this team needs is to emply another AHL goalie who doesn’t have what it takes to make it in the NHL . Last night was simply a team coming out flat after a West coast trip and the realization that two painful losses have cost them any real shot at the playoffs. They came out flat in a way that they have not done in a while. We need a 1A and we need some bigger bodies on defense and then this team will be able to compete for a playoff spot.
Just to be clear again...
Your plan gets a 1A (again making the NHL goaltending budget over $8M) from the UFA pool (why not just resign Biron… I’m sure he’ll dig getting pushed under the bus again when DP feels healthy enough for a two game cameo), while you have three emergency call-ups in the AHL who will have had less than 5 AHL (not NHL, AHL) games between them. Or he goes out and signs ANOTHER AHL goaltender to act as wet nurse to two or three prospects.
Sounds like a plan… where do I get my 2010-11 Stanley Cup Champion T-shirt?
Jesus would probably turn the other cheek too… but in a league where everybody walks on water I bet you couldn’t get a third rounder for the lord at the deadline.
that's > $7M
Jesus would probably turn the other cheek too… but in a league where everybody walks on water I bet you couldn’t get a third rounder for the lord at the deadline.
My plan ensures that we have a competent NHL-ready goaltender throughout next season
My plan ensures that we will not again go through another season without such goaltending. Not that we should ever think that an Islander goaltender will get injured. Of course, that’s never happened, has it?
Even if Wang had given DP a more reasonable five year contract, he would still be under contract until 2011 and we would still have to deal with this problem for the coming year. If we had Chicago’s cap situation, we would be stuck as they are. We do not. We can certainly afford to spend $2 mil or so on a decent NHL-ready backup and still have plenty of cap room to get some talented big defensemen and forwards. Whether signing Munroe and Lawson in the first place made any sense I do not know. Making either one Roly’s backup makes none.
Not that we should ever think that an Islander goaltender will get injured. Of course, that’s never happened, has it?
What happens when Roloson or the mystery vezina candidate get injured?
Lawson is a Snow decision… and where this debate is won or lost. Either sign him for $550K, and give him a shot, make him the #1 in BP and spend another $1M+ on an NHL backup. If Munroe doesn’t get the NHL shot here he’s most likely gone.
Whether it was for 5 years or 15 years the love for DP and the wet spot that left this year will be just another road block to signing that mysttery vezina candidate you speak of.
But without him, how will we ever make the playoffs?
This from a team who will have landed in the lottery three consecutive years, who traded the only defenseman who can see over the crossbar for a second round pick, had two of it’s better offensive performers come from the secretary pool… and who’s best prospects may be in the net.
Wang doesn't need to fire Gordon, just ask him how to address the third period meltdowns... and he'll just walk away.
With players like
DeHaan, Lee, Martin, Hamonic, Cizikas, Donovan, and Joensuu already in the pipeline and at least one or two elite players sure to be added, there is no reason to think that Mikko—much as I like him—is our best prospect.
I am hoping that, with additions from the draft and FA and improvements in the games of JT, Josh, Kyle, and others, we will not need a Vezina candidate to contend. Of course, having a goaltender who has twice taken a very average team to the Conference Finals and once to the Cup Finals should improve the team’s chances in a real and in an inspirational sense.
Having said that, we need to be sure that we have at least competent goaltending throughout the season..or at least do the best we reasonably can to ensure that.
Garth made a mistake in not providing for a 1A before the 2008-09 season. He made another in not adding a defenseman before this season. The upside of the first mistake was JT. The upside of the second might be Tyler Seguin.
This time, he has committed this team to making the playoffs. He needs to make sure goaltending isn’t an issue. He needs to add big and physical players especially on defense in the draft and FA. If he does that, this team should make another step forward and contend for a playoff spot.
So we have been in the lottery three years? You don’t build a Cup winner overnight. Jimmy D had an owner with unlimited patience, an unlimited budget, and he also had no cap limits andnit took him 14 years to get the Cup. Garth has brought in a dozen or so very good prospects in the past few years and he figures to bring in at least a few more this summer. Building a winner takes time. P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E!!!
Building a winner takes time. P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E!!!
Absolutely correct, couldnt agree with you more. Please understand that, for some of us, the very P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E you refer to extends to organizational goalies. Thats why some of do not see teh pressing urgent need for the Isles to once again carry 3 NHL starters next season. I hope that you see where that is coming from now.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 25, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I would turn that around
We should be patient in the development of our goaltending prospects—which Lawson and Monroe are not—and not rush them into the NHL. Getting a competent backup for Roly costs little and gives the team the assurance of good goaltending in the short term while we wait for DP to either be reborn or retire and for our prospects to mature into legit NHL goaltenders.
Do you advocate a backup or a 1A? They are most certainly not the same thing.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 25, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
someone like Biron
who is more than a backup but would not command a #1 salary. Certainly not an AHL special. Ellis or Biron would be fine. I;m not talking about Vokoun, for exaMPLE.
The problem is that someone like Biron (for example, Biron) as well as Roloson were not particularly happy being two parts of a three-headed goalie monster. If Rick is going to be with the team next season- and he is, we just dont know how much he will play- setting up another situation like that will not be what these guys all want.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 25, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
having those two in net was a big part of the reason the team stunk last year
If you are going for the playoffs, you simply cannot risk having to rely on an AHLer in net. Even the Hawks and the Caps aren’t doing that.
Both got NHL jobs this year. The Isles blundered by not keeping Yoda in the fold. Danis and MacDonald got KILLED because the ISLANDERS SUCKED
Ugh. Maybe it was chicken and egg, but that’s where I disagree. Joey Mac hardly had an NHL job this year, and Danis joins the fine tradition of goalies who look okay in New Jersey behind Brodeur. Those two are alright, and Danis can be good in spurts, but neither had the consistency to keep an overmatched team in games. They could be protected on a team like Chicago or Washington, but here they were exposed to the cascading cycle of poor performance in front of AHL goaltending feeding further poor performance feeding further AHL goaltending.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
don't mind giving kids--which Lawson and Munroe are not-- a shot
I do mind having to rely on an AHLer or an as yet unproven prospect to potentially be the fulltime netminder when I am supposed to be contending for the Cup.
when I am supposed to be contending for the Cup.
whaaaa?
so, the less experienced kids are better to have as backups when contending for a cup?
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
no
I want a proven NHL goalie as a backup. I don’t mind bringing the kids up to give them a game or two though…although it would make more sense to do it this year when we are already out of contention.
“a game or two” is not going to be a sample size that is worth anything.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 24, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe as a mental test and a status check on their development. But a better indicator is long-term consistently superior play (and improvement?) in the AHL.
Every goalie who has reached this level can turn in a few good (or lucky) games in the NHL and dupe people into thinking their Lalime is something he’s not.
Part of the challenge here is that, unless one blows away AHL competition, we won’t really know what ANY of the prospect goalies has until they are tested for long enough where their failure can damage the team’s season.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Here's my thought
We can carry 23 players on the roster…and with all the entry level salaries and minimal cap total, we can afford to keep the most promising G prospect on the roster for extended periods even WITH a 1A and DP on as well. So bring Mikko (or Poulin or whoever) up, let him mop up a laugher or two, maybe give him a game or two, and at some point maybe the comfort level becomes such that you can trade the 1A at the deadline and rely on the (now former) prospect.
Do you really want an untested 27-28 year old with no NHL experience backing up a 41 year old and a very fragile DiPietro when the GM has said he wants to make the playoffs? I sure as hell don’t. There are plenty of quality 1A/back up types who will be free agents we don’t have to take that risk.
I still honestly don’t see where either Lawson or Munroe fits in with the organization after this season with Poulin, Koskinen, Ridderwall and Nilsson all a possibility for Bridgeport next year.
We're doomed. Doomed!
by David Hanssen on Mar 24, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I don’t see either of them being back after next year as long as Mikko stays healthy and preforms some what well. Then maybe Nilsson comes over the pond to back him up and a year or 2 after that we see Mikko come up to the NHL. Either way Munroe and Lawson will not be on the Island for much longer unless something drastic happens
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