Islanders trade Andy Sutton to Senators for San Jose's 2nd pick
The Islanders traded Andy Sutton to the Ottawa Senators "for a 2nd round pick that previously belonged to San Jose."
That is the extent of the return, so this will be a pick very late in the 2nd round, given the Sharks' position near the top of the league standings. (Funny how the Isles like to take the Sharks', um, "seconds" via Ottawa.) I now have -- in addition to wishing failure of Dan(n)y Heatley -- a new reason to root for the Sharks' demise.
What this tells us is either:
(1) Reports of Garth Snow weighing multiple offers of a 2nd were part of the usual trade deadline misdirection and tomfoolery, or (2) Whoever else was offering a 2nd-rounder saw the direction of the market and the number of defensemen available and pulled back. What we know for sure is that this was the best Snow thought he could get for the pending unrestricted free agent, after plenty of time to case the league for offers.
This is not a thrilling trade by any means: Just cashing in your UFA for an extra pick this summer. Some fans already wish Sutton had been re-signed instead, but we don't know what kind of offers and terms were exchanged between Snow and Sutton's agent. Sutton will be 35 next month, so that's an area where you'd wisely tread lightly -- particularly if his injury history concerns you. During Sutton's lucrative three-year contract here, the most games he played in a single season was 58 -- a total he was four games from equaling this season.
It is funny to scan the initial reactions around the Web, and it's perhaps telling about Sutton's market value: So many people view Sutton based on his form of a few years ago (on that note, you might check out my own list of myths about Sutton), whereas this year he's actually been a pretty useful defender who should improve Ottawa's blueline.
The final evaluation for this deal can come when we see who else makes a move for a defenseman this year. But at this point, know that every trade is at the mercy of who's buying and who's selling. Yesterday, for example, it was Jordon Leopold for Pittsburgh's 2nd, while Nashville picked up Denis Grebeshkov -- importantly, Grebeshkov's rights are held beyond this year -- for their own 2nd. Neither of those teams, it seems, had any interest in Sutton, while most teams with the higher picks in the 2nd-round have no business renting a UFA defensemen because they are, by definition, not playoff-bound.
That, what say you? Good deal? Ho-hum deal? About what was expected? A disaster that shall not go unpunished?
Other On-going Coverage:
- SBN hockey hub story stream on this trade.
- Reaction from SBN Senators blog Silver Seven
- Quick react from Islanders Point Blank
- Katie Strang at Newsday will have a chat this afternoon, if you can access it.
- [New] Jonathan Willis at Hockey or Die calls it a good deal for Garth Snow
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One has to hope a prospect
I doubt San Joses second is all that comes back. That is set to be the last pick in the second round. If there were other teams bidding 2nd rounders then Snow is really dumb for saying Snow. Obviously those were going to be higher picks.
That's it?
No fucking way. NO FUCKING WAY. God that’s an awful, awful horrendously pitiful trade. I’d have kept on to him for that price.
Fiya Minaya.
There's supposedly more details coming
TSN has said the same thing.
Hard to believe that Sutton only nets an incredibly late second round pick. Reports suggested that there were a couple of potential offers on the table for Sutton, given that so many other D men have already gone for second rounders it is hard to believe this is the best the Isles could have gotten.
I wouldn't have traded......
…..DEREK Sutton for that pick (inside joke that Styxcanada should get…..)
this Sutton wasn’t a middle-sized white boy though :(
i got 99 problems, but Streit gettin' hurt in the Olympics aint one!
Que'st que ce,
‘middle-sized white boy’???? Is that an esoteric term for British band managers that I haven’t heard before?
But Derek was a gamer
anyone who could watch Rob Lowe skate and somehow maintain a straight face was obviously a team first guy. I would not have dealt him for the stinken Sharks 2nd either :)
Derek Sutton made a cameo in.....
‘Youngblood’, then? And no Dennis, JY, Tommy or Panozzo brothers? What a RIP!
A late second round pick is not that bad for Sutton.
I’ve said all along, you guys who thought he was getting a 1st were deluding yourselves.
not a 1st
but a 2nd, and a prospect equivalent to, say…a Corey Trivino, or a Aaron Ness
Fiya Minaya.
by BringBackBobby on Mar 2, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
i disagree AP, moving him pre-olympics would have gotten more, he waited and it cost him…
and yes, 1st rounder was possible if you give back your 3rd rounder provided you aren’t moving into the upper half of the 1st round
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Either way
getting Sutton, who has been our best defensemen, off the roster assures this team a lottery pick. If anything I see this trade as Sutton for Fowler. This deal guarentees the Islanders AT LEAST that in the first round.
Our second best defenseman
and any team that fails to make the playoffs is in the lottery. There is usually only movement between 1 and 2. The odds are far more in favor of a team staying in its spot. We are likely #3 in the lottery no matter what.
Lottery balls are weighted differently for the top five.
It’s not the same for everone else.
So we got that goin’ for us … which is nice.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Yes, but technically everyone not in the playoffs is in
only the bottom five have a theoretical chance at the #1 but in reality it is really between the bottom two teams with the worst overall record much more likely to get the #1. Given our record and that of the three teams below us, unless JT begins lighting up lamps at an unbelievable rate, this team will continue to struggle and will be overtaken by Carolina to fall into the #3. Falling to #2 is unlikely and #1 impossible. We will almost certainly be between #3 and #5 most likely #3.
moving him pre-olympics would have gotten more, he waited and it cost him…
Not sure I agree with that, but it’s always 20/20 hindsight with these anyway. For Wallin, Wilson balked and delayed at giving up a 2nd, holding up that trade for a week at least.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
he could have set the market, as opposed to being a victim of it, is my thinking here
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Setting the market
I just see Sutton as a specific commodity, and it doesn’t sound like anyone was beating down the doors for that commodity. Meanwhile, what has the market shown so far? Wallin was one. Then Pittsburgh (whose pick will only be slightly better, provided they don’t repeat as champions) goes for Leopold, who’s a totally different defenseman. Then Grebeshkov — who is rights-controlled, a necessary ingredient for Nashville — goes for a 2nd.
The loss here I think is that he couldn’t get Ottawa’s 2nd (if they still have it; I haven’t checked) rather than San Jose’s, but even that may be a slim difference.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
A-ha!
Thanks. I had the impression it was gone, but I couldn’t remember why and double-checking the Heatley trade didn’t reveal a swap of 2nds. Turns out it was practically yesterday.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Andy Sutton? First rounder? Never.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
from katies blog
“It’s a fair price. That’s what the market is for a player of this nature, especially in terms of what a defenseman was bringing back. It’s a good move for our organization when you look at what the future bears. The play of Andrew MacDonald and Dustin Kohn and health of Jack Hillen enabled us to make a move like this.”
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
You don’t agree on the market price then?
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I wouldn't without a contract extension
And I just can’t make a call on that until I know what his contract demands are.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
the only way I would have moved him at that price is if he was refusing to sign
or had unreasonable demands
I think what we got might have been about right
Sutton has been injury prone the last few seasons. Couple that with the fact that he’s a pending UFA due to turn 35. Sutton goes down with an injury Ottawa really gets raped in this deal.
Overall, when you look at Sutton’s last three years, this deal may be about right. It’s not like Sutton is a player that gets a team off the post season bubble guarenteeing in playoff berth. In the playoffs is another matter.
He can be a pain to play against.
We drafted Hamonic with a late second In think. It’s not really that bad.
To that point, for me picks are more about depth and flexibility. You collect more picks, you have the flexibility to make moves at the draft or stockpile bodies. I don’t think we can negotiate “early” vs. “late” too much because the teams that will have early picks are teams that have no business buying a rental.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I think ideally you want to get teams on the bubble to blink and make a move
Generally the guys sitting 6-10 in the conference. Seems like they are less likely to deal these days with the NHL structured the way it is. The top teams don’t really seem to care about their picks as much and don’t have problems landing the UFAs.
I think getting those bubble teams to blink is a lot harded these days. Especially now that the cap has kind of proven to be a joke and it’s the same teams landing top talent in free agency.
Slightly OT, I'm going on record right now as saying.....
…..with DP’s ongoing soap operatic career, we need to keep Rolo at ALL costs no matter how sweet the deal is – mark my words, we’ll live to regret it otherwise…..
I’ll mark your words, but I don’t mind dealing him. The goalie market is and will continue to be flooded.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
may as well ride the Biron express all the way to the bottom now :-)
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
I think Snow can re up Biron for another season if he trades Roloson
Roloson might land them another second. Going into the draft with three seconds, two thirds and a top five pick is a pretty decent place to be.
Although I don’t think Roloson would be the only other guy on this team to go. If Snow can get a third for Weight I think he should do it. He’s not gonna get anything for Park or Sim. Hunter is another assett that I think he should look to move as well.
It's that with our 10-year goaltender record.....
…..can we REALLY afford to roll the dice again? Roloson is the best one we’ve had since Luongo, in my opinion – Osgood never proved he could put together 2 stellar seasons for us and Ricky, same deal…..of all the players in hockey, goaltenders greatly affect the chemistry of a team…..
Don't get me wrong...
I love Roloson and I’ll be happy to ride him next year if no one bites on him. But he’s also at a scary age and just an injury or that final I-woke-up-and-my-back-went-out away from his decline. So if someone wants to offer assets for him, I’ll take my chances with Biron’s desperation for a starting job near home and whatever else the DiPietro health gods or free agent market provides.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Brett Westgarth
moves to SJ, for “future considerations”
via Mike Morreale
Things are getting real weird now.
i got 99 problems, but Streit gettin' hurt in the Olympics aint one!
Future considerations
“Next time we’re on the West Coast, we get to use your pool and you take us out for a nice steak.”
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Future consideration: lose in the playoffs so our second round pick is better.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
lose in the playoffs so our second round pick is better.
God willing and let Heatley be thy guide.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Can we darken that ridiculously huge visor he wears to blind him?
Hating on NBC since 2010
by David Hanssen on Mar 2, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Whatever it takes, I favor it.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
It feels like there is an artifical rivalry brewing with the Isles and the Sharks. This is the second year in a row that we have to hope that they choke…which I have no problem with but it is a shame to have a reoccuring President’s Cup curse taking place. I hope Dallas has that opportunity this year.
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
A funny thing for me is I used to enjoy this Sharks team and their fans. I still enjoy their fans, but once they sold their soul for Heatley, I converted to hoping the team flops until he’s gone.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I was hoping for that team to flop last season
when we got their first rounder.
I hope for the same thing again this year. Good chance given that Thornton is their number one center. He’s like their Yashin.
Westgarth counters the Moore for Rajda and Reese move, and he goes back to the organization he played for last year. It was basically trading out spare part in the AHL, both Rajda and Reese make the Sound Tigers younger, not so sure about better.
Hating on NBC since 2010
by David Hanssen on Mar 2, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Rolling along
If they got a decent offer I would hope they would move Rolo. He is a great goaltender but will not be here when the club is ready for the playoffs. Right now he is just helping us float a little higher than we should be so that the picks are a little lower. I think the draft is a crap shoot after the first five picks and the more shots you have the more likely you are to get a good player back.
I don’t believe that this trade is the end of the world but I do believe that it was bad and wrong. This stinks of a makeup trade for last year. Garth should have ran away from the Senators like he stole that pick…because he did. Instead he turns around says sorry to Murray.
Doesn’t Garth know that is probably the first time we pulled something over on Ottawa in the history of the franchise. They have owned us on and off the ice for so long and then last year he turned the page on that chapter to only revisit that chapter this year.
What is it with Murray(s) and the Islanders? They always seem to best this organization. It is shameful.
Garth still has Rollie and or Biron to go, at this rate I don’t believe that it would be wise to hold on to Rollie seeing how he is going to fetch us the better draft pick of the two.
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
On an interesting Goalie related note:
Nick Kypreos, of Sportsnet.ca just “tweeted” a bit about Ray Emery looking for a surgeon who could possibly save his career. His hip injury is being compared to that of Bo Jackson’s apparently, and if I recall, Jackson eventually had a hip replacement.
I hate Emery for being such a goof ball to put it politely, but I don’t really wish that upon anybody, so that’s unfortunate. All the same, maybe the market just opened up on more spot for a landing (except for Marty).
i got 99 problems, but Streit gettin' hurt in the Olympics aint one!
Bummer
Yeah, I’m no Emery fan either, but that sucks. But I can’t see Philadelphia going into the playoffs believing Leighton/Boucher is the answer, so … make Garth an offer Paul, and make it good.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Fleischman and Dubinky were picked at around the same position this pick
is set to be at. Can’t really say until the draft is finalized.
Westgarth was also traded 20 minutes ago to San Jose for future considerations. That will probably be a late fifth rounder.
Thus far it looks like Snow is dumping what he can and getting anything back in terms of picks. I didn’t think Sutton was really worth that much. Snow would have had to pull off a major theft to land a first. For all we know, with Sutton’s history, he could get injured down the stretch.
Exactly. I just can’t see this as a bad trade. it’s almost a textbook rental trade. If someone else was offering a higher pick for Sutton, I’m sure Snow would have taken it.
I suspect the leak about “multiple teams offering 2nds” was a deliberate misdirection to try to get Ottawa to sweeten the pot. No dice, so here we are. Which is fine by me.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Makes you wonder if Botta is doing all he can to sweeten the pot for Snow
Now I wonder if his report on Philly and Chicago having interest in Roloson is bullshit.
I really never believed Chicago was or is in on either of the Isles goalies. Huet’s contract is immovable and Niemi is the starting goalie there now, so they would have a trio to take care of if they added Biron or Rollie.
Hating on NBC since 2010
by David Hanssen on Mar 2, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
McKenzie is Tweeting that Phoenix is desperatly trying to move Mueller
Who knows what they are asking but if the price is right Snow should at least look to throw some chips into the pot.
If Wolski were to be traded to Phoenix, Mueller and something else would obviously be involved. Phoenix has been shopping Mueller. Hard.
I have in the past stated I would like Mueller on this team when his name first came up in the rumor mill. This opinion was not popular with too many people.
Hating on NBC since 2010
by David Hanssen on Mar 2, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
To be honest I never watched Mueller play
So I don’t really know and can’t offer much to that debate.
Given his struggles I think they are asking to much if Wolki is where they think is value is. He’s been in the league for three seasons and has been a minus every single one. His production is going down as well.
I don’t know what factors are contributing to that.
Haha, distressed asset there. I would take a flyer though. Not sure what ails him (you’d think if anyone could direct him, it’d be Tippett — and Tippett did try to shelter him a bit), but a low bid is low risk. I just wonder if Phoenix is going to insist on too much because he was such a high pick.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
It's Don Maloney doing the dealing so you never know
This is the same guy who traded Turgeon for a bag of dicks.
they turned down some of the Rangers best prospects for him
including Sabguinnetti. The reason he’s around is because the price has been too steep…and we have more pressing needs than C.
Should be a fun stock to watch
They started off the season asking high, maybe now they’ve lowered a bit, but if they hang on for a few more years they could end up in Rob Schremp territory: Free to the weakest link!
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I don't think Sanguinetti is really a major prospect
He’s 23 years old and was drafted the same year as Mueller and Okposo. Also, given that he can’t crack the Rangers defense corp after all these years that tells you a lot about him. He also has a concussion history.
From what I’ve seen of this guy he does have talent but looks a little on the soft side. He’s about the same size DeHaan is now. He just looks to me like another prospect from the Rangers system that been overhyped.
Also, given that he can’t crack the Rangers defense corp after all these years that tells you a lot about him.
When Wade Redden can get a spot on the Rangers D you know a D-prospect isn’t great =P
You think the Rags are regretting passing up Milan Lucic, Claude Giroux and Patrick Berglund to take Sanguinetti? He’s like Hugh Jessiman, local product over hyped, except unlike Jessiman he’s played in an NHL game.
Hating on NBC since 2010
by David Hanssen on Mar 2, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Where?
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 2, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Just read it on another board
Then chekced Hockeybuzz and now wonder if the only source is that Eklund asshole. Hopenot.
Checking BD Galloff.
Fuck Eklund. Throw enough shit on the wall, some of it sticks once in a while.
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 2, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
I think that’s the first time I’ve read something by BD since he started the new site. He turned of Islanders Independent, I tuned out.
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 2, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Mckenzie just shot it down
To those suggesting Roloson is a Flyer, I was just told by Isles he will be in net for them tonight. I’m told nothing is done, FWIW.
In all fairness to BD, Chris Botta reported this possibly getting done over the next 24 hours. He listed Chicago or Philly.
So Roloson plays net tonight…that would leave us Biron and Huet? That is interesting. 2 goalies that haven’t lived up to their expectations. This could be either very good or very bad. At least Biron has a positive attitude. Let see what Huet brings to the table.
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
OK, IF Huet is coming back in return (With two plus years @ 5.6 Mil a year left on his contract), the Blackhawks would also have to add a really good young player to the deal in order for it to work.
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 2, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
But how would Garth be able to get the pound of flesh from Stan Bowman without drawing any blood?
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 2, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Gonna have to check the laws of Chicago on that one.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Granted I am stretching on this one and that is a big IF but could that mean a 1st rounder? I see Bowman wanting at least another “prospect” out of this deal. Could Tambi be on the move as well?
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
You mean an exchange where we took Chicago’s Huet problem off their hands? My mind is jumbled at the moment, so I can’t think of the few examples of someone essentially buying cap relief. But hypothetically if we swapped goalies, I’d want a good young player to balance the money a little bit, and I wouldn’t be throwing anything else in. Not helping Chicago fix their Huet mistake without them paying.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I agree. The only way I make that trade if I’m Snow is if I am receiving a Leddy, Beach or Olsen in return.
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
by David Hanssen on Mar 2, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
I guess I should have thrown that in there. I was already thinking of a prospect along with the swap but I was also thinking of a pick for Tambi as a means of balancing the rest of that out. We aren’t using him and we won’t waive him. Therefore I guess it is a foregone conclusion that he is a trade deal waiting to happen.
Another year of watching everyone else in the playoffs. :(
Worth watching, but...
From MSM:
McKenzie: Well, I am told it’s not agreed to on any level, but perhaps I am wrong. We will see. RT @Dallas_Dave: “in principle” .. not done yet.
and: The Jokinen/Prust experience notwithstanding, if Roloson is plays tonight I do not believe anything has been agreed to with anybody.
And this from Philadelphia, saying nothing agreed to yet, though there is certainly smoke.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
That second “and” was a tweet from McKenzie, btw — not me.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
One more Roloson refutation
From a Flyers beat guy:
Just spoke to a flyers source who said there is “no shot” at them trading for roloson because of salary constraints. So ignore that rumor.Sources, sources, sources. I will say if I was Philly and I could make it work, I’d give it a shot. They’re a potentially dangerous team with a potentially very uncertain goalie situation. Roloson could catch lightning in a bottle … or flame out like all Flyers goalies must do before they die.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
From the Blackhawks Beatwriter
For the Blackhawks, many of them involve goaltending and Cristobal Huet possibly being on the move. Various rumors have Huet going to the Islanders, Toronto or Florida with the Hawks attempting to acquire either Tomas Vokoun from the Panthers or Dwayne Roloson from the Isles.
Bawhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. That’s a good joke. Real funny. Huet for Roloson. Nice comic relief.
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
I’m seeing a lot of chatter regarding Boyes. Does anyone think St. Louis will actually move him?
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sounds cool.
Supposedly they faxed everyone that he’s available (did the same with Colaiacovo before the break), so I’d say yes. Interesting case; man he can shoot (when he shoots on goal), but man he can hit a big rut. The Isles could certainly do worse for scoring wingers, especially if it was just a St. Louis salry dump.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
My Two Cents
I was thinking back to another trade like this, The Derek King trade back in 97. Now at the time King had a 53 point season going for the Islanders, was #3 on the team in points and was going to be a UFA. He ended up going for a 5th round pick that became nothing.
Now I realize there’s a lot of people who like Sutton, he was a big guy, played a big game. But he’s also 35 and is on his way down. If Witt teaches us anything, there’s a shelf life on Dmen. How many people who are outraged today about Sutton being traded would be ready to hurl bricks at him in two years when he slows down to Witt speed. I think a 2nd rounder is a lot for a marginal at best Dman (And yes, he’s marginal on a team that’s not the Islanders) who just brings size to the table.
Kohn is obviously going to replace him, and maybe we pick up a depth dman in the FA Market when we need to. I think this was another good move by Snow, even if the 2nd rounder is a bit late in the round. I didn’t think Sutton could get us anything outside of the 3rd or later.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
I'm not sure how King is relevant to this discussion but
that moronic trade was made by everybody’s favorite GM in the course of dismantling the Isles for profit.
It may be that Sutton was refusing to sign an extension and that Garth had to take the best deal he could get. None of us are in the room so we cannot know. But Sutton is much more than a marginal defenseman and is certainly worth more than a third round pick. He makes bone-crunching, gamechanging hits. He adds secondary scoring. He screens goaltenders. He is the second best in the NHL at shot blocking. The Sens got a steal IMHO.
The King trade is just what came into my head. Its an older vet with only a few years left King had 2 good seasons left then disappeared. At 35 how many more seasons can Sutton have left with the type of game he plays?
A 2nd Rounder is a lot of potential and I think Snow/Islanders Scouts have shown they can draft well early on. Put that with Gordon doing a good job (if its still Gordon’s show by the time this pick would be NHL ready) of bringing along youngsters and there’s not much to worry about here.
Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!
I am sure that the team will make good use of the pick
just thought they could have gotten a better return.

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