Shanahan, Pronger, Snow on the NHL's head hit debate
It's a game day (a particularly torturous one for my long-held dual loyalties), but the preview will wait until after we know more about how the Islanders will deal with the Rob Schremp injury.
In the meantime, the NHL GMs agreed on language for a proposed head hit rule:
"A lateral, back pressure or blind-side hit to an opponent where the head is targeted and/or is the principal point of contact is not permitted. A violation of the above will result in a minor or major penalty and shall be reviewed for possible supplemental discipline."
Greg Wyshynski at Puck Daddy (whose parsing of Richards/Booth vs. Cooke/Savard I disagree with) believes that this wording would disallow the Doug Weight hit on Brandon Sutter last season. I don't agree with that, either, though it's possible the NHLPA (at least when this came up last year) might. There was nothing "lateral, back pressure or blind-side" about Weight's hit. That hit was face-to-face, and as I argued then, the biggest factor was that Sutter lunged forward (and down) to poke the puck forward at the last second:
Doug Weight-Brandon Sutter Hit
Pronger: Opposed ... Shock!
Meanwhile, naturally an opponent of a rule modification here is Philadelphia's Chris Pronger, who has based the physical side of his career on the premise that he really doesn't have to worry about whether any of his on-ice actions might seriously hurt his union :cough: brothers :cough::
"So, you’re going to let up when a guy has his head down, so then he beats you to the net and scores a goal in a big playoff game or a crucial game towards the tail end of the regular season? Then, you’re getting critiqued by the media and the fans: why didn’t you hit him?"
Though he apparently pays attention to what media and fans say about his play, I'm not sure Pronger has been paying attention to this debate (we're talking about late and blind hits, hits that don't really stop a guy beating you). Either that, or Pronger is just, out of self-preservation, categorically opposed to any rule that would limit his ability to do whatever the hell he wants (short of stomping, of course). But after watching so much of the talented yet oft-undisciplined defenseman's career, no reaction by Captain Elbows ever surprises me.
Shanahan: Thoughtful, Instructive
Of far more interest to me was the perspective of a player Pronger was once traded for, Brendan Shanahan. Though now retired, Shanahan played in today's game of faster speeds, bigger bodies, and reduced obstruction (which allows for more freight train collisions). And his words on the matter from earlier this week (before the language was finalized) display both a sincere recognition of the need for a rule as well as an articulate explanation of the thin line and on-ice pressures and split-second decisions players face when hitting each other at NHL speeds.
Suffice to say, if it's a question of players' health, I'd rather take the testimony of Shanahan -- he of 2,489 regular season PIM himself -- than that of Pronger, he of the slash/elbow/stomp first, deny-responsibility-later approach.
Regardless of where you stand, this Shanahan interview was worth the listen and a productive part of the debate:
Garth Snow Interview
Finally, Garth Snow was also asked about the head shot issue during this audio interview posted at the Islanders' official site. As is so often the case with Snow, he doesn't reveal much on that topic (and to be fair, he wasn't in the breakout group that specifically addressed the head-hit language).
Snow also doesn't divulge much about his trade deadline strategy, other than to say the offer for Sutton was too nice to pass up and the injury to Andrew MacDonald was awful timing. But his thoughts (albeit moderated) on the rebuild were still worth a listen -- and might even be a sign of Snow slowly opening up a bit. I'll take what I can get.
This is actually my biggest complaint about Snow: By all accounts he's thoughtful, strategic, engaging and funny -- off the record. But when it comes to discussing GM strategy on the record, he's top-line sanitized, by-the-book, corporate-PR-like. Don't say anything that might be construed to make a previous decision look bad, and by god don't say too much. As opposed to Dean Lombardi in Los Angeles and Bob Murray in Anaheim -- who tend to have moments of enlightening elaboration about the thought process behind their moves -- Snow doesn't seem to go that way or, possibly, even believe in it.
The counter-argument to my complaint is that you don't hire a GM to talk, you hire him to build your team. And as far as hockey markets go, Southern California is not Long Island, so maybe Lombardi and Murray have to do more than your average GM. Yet the Islanders do not sell out often, they lose money -- and here they are asking season ticket holders to pay more and/or pay up early on top of a parking fee increase, all for a team making three consecutive bottom-five finishes.
In my mind, it's a team that could use all the PR help it can get, and having your GM let fans see a glimpse of what he's doing does not backfire -- it actually engages fans and builds buy-in to what you're doing. But I've got a background in the dark world of PR, so I would say that.
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it actually engages fans and builds buy-in to what you're doing
Why the hell would you want your fans to know the direction your going. Snow told us once, he’s building through the draft. That’s all we need to know. We don’t need to know when he plans on sprinkling in those free agents. We don’t need to know the true health of a player that’s going to be here when my 2 year old goes to High School. We don’t need to know about the teams decisions on the Coach and how long he might be here. We definitely don’t need to know who the team we love, cheer for, spend money on, shed tears over, etc. is going to be drafting. And, above all, we don’t need to know if there will be a future of this team and where their home will be. That’s is our creed. As Islander fans, we must believe that all will be good. When, should not be a concern.
My sarcasm detector is beeping off the charts. (And I loved it.)
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
well i ask because there’s a distinct line of demarcation between older generation fans and newer ones Dom…
new fans are used to point and click answers, instant gratification, and multitasking without paying 100% attention to any one thing in particular – they have no idea what’s it’s like to not be able to pluck up information as they want/need it
older fans remember carring 2 dimes around in case you got stuck and needed to call someone for a ride, they read books and wrote letters, patience and blind faith are more prevalent in the older generation than the new…
which is why i asked, a 23 year old may be sarcastic, a 45 year old may be serious
NY Islanders Hockey: Where MRI's are addictive
Whew!
I thought you were saying 45 was “old”… I rememeber carrying two dimes, but one was to sell, and the other… well… Let’s just say waste not, want not…and I read a book once… God bless Kurt Vonnegut! I always avoided writing letters because I couldn’t find paper with spell check… God bless Bill Gates!
… and if I’d written the above comment (well done, by the way) it would have been total sarcasm.
44, and I understand that humans make mistakes, and don’t always stay on the same path they started on… but as the successor to the world’s least readable GM I feel that Snow owes an explanaition once in a while.
“The Sutton offer was too sweet to pass up”… OKAY, but was there any effort to sign him, or do you have a plan on replacing a guy MOVED, HIT and DETERED your opponents… and seemed to be a pretty good guy.
…and is your choice for coach of this team ever going to be held accountable for two bottom three finishes? Or is it always going to be Suckini, Suckidi, Suckici… (For those of you who don’t speak latin that’s…. We SUCKED, We continue to SUCK, and We Will ALWAYS SUCK!
Jesus would probably turn the other cheek too… but in a league where everybody walks on water I bet you couldn’t get a third rounder for the lord at the deadline.
new fans are used to point and click answers, instant gratification, and multitasking without paying 100% attention to any one thing in particular
I hear ya on that front. And I could make distinctions with different cases (for example, I didn’t begrudge Snow the Tavares draft suspense). But overall, I think even when the club thinks it’s really going out of its way to share info, it’s actually stopping well short of what some other clubs do. And considering they’re short on attendance…
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I know you want these questions answered, we all do. But many of these questions just cant be answered right now, Nyntwun. What do you want the organization to do- give us answers that they pull out of thin air and simply hope might be right? They dont KNOW who they are going to draft yet. They dont KNOW whats going to happen with DiPietro or with the Lighthouse. Honestly, as much as not knowing sucks, Id rather have that than be placated with bullshit.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Mar 11, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I think we all know that there are things beyond Snow’s control, but the key is what is his plan?? Now, I’m not saying that tomorrow he should call Newsday, Point Blank, and whoever else and say that he’s going to offer Ilya Kovalchuk a 40 year deal for 10 million per, and to rename the Coliseum after him. However, he can say that he plans to hit the free agent market hard. And, if he can’t sign anyone, than he should tell us what he offered, and why they refused. Let it ‘leak,’ so we, the money paying fans, can see there was an effort. Kind of like what happened with Smyth. They tried, and we said good for them for it.
That's really what I'm after
I understand the desire to hold the cards close, and even to protect players’ health by being a little vague with injuries. But I believe the team (including both Gordon and Snow) is missing out on how helpful they could be with a little more forthright and speedy disclosure.
LET THE FANS IN on the process. It’s okay to be wrong sometimes — if you explain your thinking, a lot of fans will even {gasp} better understand your strategy and even like you for it. There will always be non-stop naysayers whether you disclose info or not. But when you’re asking fans to be very patient through a “depleted squad” rebuild, clueing fans in keeps them invested in the process. The old “everything is fine, just watch the games” model does not work anymore.
I think Snow’s regime has slowly improved a little on this front (and he may have started off paranoid because of the circumstances around which he was hired), but It’s complicated by the lack of media covering the team. Even if Strang were everywhere, she’s only one traveling beatwriter, she only has so much space, and most of her stuff is behind a paywall anyway. The organization should realize they’re missing some great opportunities to deepen the connection with fans. Information is still largely treated like it’s corporate PR where everything must have a positive spin, rather than sports, where most customers understand there are ups and downs, wins and losses, and investment in the journey will reap rewards down the line.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
A lot depends on how Garth views our defensive prospects
If he thinks that the Isles will be OK going forward with De Haan as the #1 of the future, then he drafts Hall or Seguin or he trades down for Nino or Kabanov and uses the additional picks to trade up our second rounder or to add depth. He uses subsequent picks, including our second rounder, to add bigger bodies on D as well as a PF or two.
If he has doubts about De Haan as #1, it gets complicated. We need another top tier offensive talent. A trade down wit Anaheim might work provided they are interested and both of their picks are in trade up range of the top ten. Another option would be a trade with Ottawa, for example, that gave us Michalek, a prospect, and their first round pick.
Draft strategy might be intertwined with FA strategy. Would Volcenkov, for example, be intrigued by the chance to play with a budding Russian superstar like Kabanov? Would he be even more intrigued if Garth also managed to finally get Petrov over here and if the Lighthouse soap opera moved toward conclusion? I am sure that Garth has ideas but I am also sure that there is a lot that he doesn’t know either.
As to Sutton, I wasn’t sure about the return on that at first, but it may have been the best he could do. Should he have held him? I guess he probably saw things as I do. If JT wasn’t scoring, nothing Andy could do was going to turn us into a contender. Hopefully, JT starts to score consistently again before the season ends.
Sutton
As to Sutton, I wasn’t sure about the return on that at first, but it may have been the best he could do. Should he have held him? I guess he probably saw things as I do. If JT wasn’t scoring, nothing Andy could do was going to turn us into a contender.
I guess it’s a question of how much a fan/GM wanted Sutton around to staunch the bleeding. Personally, I didn’t mind the swap, as I see it as you do: We were already so far out that it wasn’t happening. I didn’t want to risk losing him in the summer, and if they hadn’t re-signed him yet, I fear he’s asking more than I’d want to commit to a guy of his age and injury history.
That said, I understand why people are upset. Twenty games with a big hole on an already thin blueline ain’t fun.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
It’s amazing how many categories there are in which I’m withholding judgment for forgiveness this summer. I think I mostly know what he’s doing, and if he’s doing what I suspect, then I’m appeased — but of course all of this would be a little easier if the info flow was just a little bit clearer.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
As I said elsewhere
how does Garth see the defensive talent in our system? Is he content with De Haan as #1? That will determine draft strategy and possibly FA strategy.
BTW has anybody told Chris that he's not allowed to stomp?
Coaches Corner should be entertaining. No doubt Grapes will dress for the event—-pink?
Garth speaks - on MSG
Botta helpfully transcribes.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.

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