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Age, Injury, Era? Examining the decline of Brendan Witt

I feel bad revisiting this, but I can't help my curiosity. Defensemen are hard to evaluate. Their mistakes stand out, but when they're doing their job they are often under the radar. And a very good defenseman can cover the weaknesses of a sub-par partner, leaving that partner's true worth unclear. Advanced stats give us a little better picture -- over the long haul -- but only to a blurry degree of clarity thanks to hockey's many moving variables.

Meanwhile, Internet discourse, you may have noticed, trends toward the snark. Probably thanks to the anonymity ("On the Internet, no one knows you're a dog."), sweeping declarations displaying one's superior intelligence are the norm. I'm no different. (Would you believe I'm actually a 72-year-old New Orleans-based psychic who's never watched a hockey game in her life? Had you fooled all this time, suckers.)

So while online I've heard no shortage of concise "baaah, Witt sux" snark -- along with, at the other extreme, fans of other teams (who haven't seen the games) touting Witt as the "tough veteran D-man" they need -- I'm curious: What did happen to Brendan Witt? Why did he go from a reliable tough-minutes guy for the Islanders to one who sticks out for his peripheral numbers and general low mobility? How much of his perceived decline is real, and how much is exaggerated -- whether by an inflated view of what he provided three years ago or by a dismissive view of what he is today?

Whenever his injuries are mentioned, I'm reminded of the night just six games into Scott Gordon's Islanders tenure, when Witt, during his fourth shift of the game, took what would have been a routine hit from Krystofer Barch in the corner -- except their knees collided just so, and Witt's knee gruesomely bent the wrong way.

After the jump/poll, some numbers and ideas to consider...

Star-divide

By the way, since his demotion, in ten games for low-scoring AHL Bridgeport, Witt has 1 goal (game winner!), 1 assist, a minus-1, 20 PIM and 16 shots on goal (he had 25 shots in 42 games with the Islanders).

Three days after that Barch hit, Witt's knee remained so swollen that an MRI still could not be scheduled. Of course, without surgery -- you know, it was just a "lower body" injury -- Witt, true to form, typically hurried back to help his struggling team and was in the lineup four weeks later. Minus-1 in the five games before the injury, he quickly went an additional minus-16 in his first 15 games back.

Witt turned 35 this month, so that carries with it its own hint of age and injury decline, which are two sides of the same natural cycle. And that brings up an ill-timed confluence of two factors that likely turned Witt from a defensemen receiving a multi-million-dollar contract extension in 2008 to a veteran clearing waivers in 2010: He was a poor stylistic fit in the Islanders' transition from Ted Nolan to Scott Gordon -- who was hired just after Witt's extension was signed -- and he's played through an accumulation of injuries that have probably taken their toll.

But is there any way to quantify or confirm that? We can try, with the help of Gabriel Desjardins' advanced hockey stats at Behind the Net. You can follow the links to dig in more deeply, but here's a quick look at Witt's numbers and quality of competition over the past few years, both under Nolan and Gordon.

The Ted Nolan Years

Note: All of the charts below refer to 5-on-5 play only.

2006-07GPRel. +/-QualCompTeammates
Martinek 43 1.73 0.001 0.09
Witt 81 0.11 0.117 0.10
Hill 81 -0.16 0.07 0.07
Poti 78 -0.45 -0.014 -0.11
Meyer 35 -0.82 0.114 -0.11
Campoli 51 -1.03 -0.021 -0.13
Gervais 51 -2.03 0.012 -0.25

The "relative +/-" column is what appears as "Rating" in Desjardins' tables. It's a way of depicting a player's +/- not in relation to the rest of the league (a good player on a bad team can have a lower +/- rating than a bad player on a good team), but in relation to his teammates and based on minutes played.

In 2006-07 under Ted Nolan, Witt had the second-highest relative +/- among regular defensemen -- and that was while playing against the toughest competition (QualComp). Nolan sued him as one of his shutdown guys, and to my eyes at the time and according to the numbers above, he performed well in that role.

2007-08GPRel. +/-QualCompCorsi Rel. QoCTeammates
Campoli 46 1.39 -0.034 0.004 -0.054
Gervais 60 0.48 0.024 0.393 0.092
Meyer 57 0.47 -0.003 0.533 -0.03
Witt 59 -0.41 0.105 1.542 -0.168
Berard 54 -0.41 -0.032 -0.278 0.015
Martinek 69 -0.53 0.086 1.44 -0.104
Sutton 58 -0.57 0.012 0.07 -0.089

For 2007-08, we can add what Desjardins calls "Corsi relative to quality of competition." So Corsi is a little alternative to +/-: a measure of how many shots are directed at either net while you're on the ice, and Corsi Rel. QoC tries to control Corsi for players who face tougher competition (i.e., if you are always on against Alex Ovechkin, your Corsi will suffer, period).

From the QualComp (and from our memory) we can see Nolan still used Witt against the opponents' better players, continuing to be used 76% of the time with Radek Martinek, according to Dobber Hockey. Witt's overall rating suffered, but his Corsi relative to QualComp was still higher than any of his teammates. Year 2 under Nolan is a tough one to capture, because the first half of the season the Islanders were in a playoff position thanks to Rick DiPietro's stellar play, while the second half was sabotaged by DiPietro's injuries, which he initially played through to ill effect.

The Scott Gordon Years

2008-09GPRel. +/-QualCompCorsi Rel. QoCTeammates
Sutton 23 3.23 0.006 0.622 0.253
Streit 74 1.71 0.033 0.575 -0.028
Hillen 40 -0.25 -0.060 -0.455 -0.036
Gervais 69 -0.53 0.035 0.59 0.089
Pock 59 -0.78 -0.032 -0.061 0.074
Martinek 51 -0.78 0.062 0.861 -0.214
Meyer 27 -1.15 0.063 1.002 -0.147
Witt 65 -1.3 0.069 1.08 -0.218

If 2007-08 was hard to capture because of the DiPietro injury that split the year in half, 2008-09 is hard to capture because of the absolute carnage that hit the blueline. Every defenseman spent time on IR except Mark Streit, who still missed 8 games with injury. It's hard to know who was playing through injury, because blueliners were constantly trying to tough it out or rush back to stem the reliance on AHL call-ups. I include Andy Sutton in the table above despite his playing only 23 games, because his early performance -- paired with #1 Mark Streit -- is illustrative.

This is the year Witt played only five-plus games before the injury. He continued to be paired with Martinek most of the time -- 46% of even-strength shifts -- though his second most-frequent partner was Freddy Meyer, with about 17% of his shifts. Gordon continued the trend of using Witt against the toughest competition, and it showed in his team-worst rating. This is the first season where Witt's deployment against the toughest opponents translated into the worst numbers on the blueline corps (and it shows in partner Martinek and Meyer's numbers, too)

2009-10: The Tipping Point

2009-10 GPRel. +/-QualCompCorsi Rel. QoCTeammates
MacDonald 38 0.87 0.02 0.506 0.104
Hillen 49 0.47 0.054 0.777 -0.028
Streit 62 0.26 0.004 0.561 -0.028
Sutton 54 0.18 0.101 1.167 0.058
Meyer 44 -0.12 -0.085 -0.409 -0.026
Gervais 56 -0.73 -0.043 0.091 -0.076
Witt 42 -2.14 -0.111 -0.400 -0.006

2009-10 is the season where it all comes to a head, resulting in Witt's decreasing playing time and eventual demotion. For the first time "hidden" against the weakest competition instead of being used in a shutdown role, Witt nonetheless had the worst rating on the team -- and not by a slim margin, either.

Before being waived and sent to AHL Bridgeport, the Islanders first put him on IR thanks to what was first called a calf strain but was later reported to be a knee injury that team management believed was holding him back. Witt, playing the warrior, said he was fine, while management thought otherwise. The numbers certainly support management's contention; what's unclear is whether a "fully healed" Witt is: (1) still possible, and (2) could return to form.

Part of me will always suspect that one reason Witt has passed through waivers and is playing in the AHL today is the same thing that made him valued: That heart-and-soul willingness to play through any pain, fend off any attacking shark, bounce off any approaching SUV. Eventually, that mileage catches up to you. Absent an elusive interview or inside information, it may have very well been that early 2008-09 knee injury that pushed the odometer too far.

The other part, of course, is that whatever Witt's body can still provide, it is not an ideal fit for the type of game Scott Gordon employs. That system is more "new NHL"-oriented, demanding mobility from blueliners who can join the rush at will to exploit holes while still having the speed to get back.

We knew this back in that rapidly descending month of December 2008, when Witt's honest but blown-up responses to then-beat writer Glenn Logan revealed how he thought Gordon's system needed some tweaks to suit the personnel. The only remaining question is whether Witt at age 35, if/when healthy and deployed in a more traditional system, could still provide the no-prisoners shut-down service he was once counted on to provide?

Thanks to his $3 million cap hit, that probably won't be answered this season. Thanks to one more year left on his contract, one way or another next season should provide the final word.

Poll
What's the biggest reason Brendan Witt has landed in Bridgeport?
His game doesn't fit today's NHL.
39 votes
His game doesn't fit Scott Gordon's system.
104 votes
His age has slowed him down.
55 votes
His injury miles have caught up to him.
84 votes
His cap hit kept other teams from claiming him.
29 votes

311 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 51 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Well, he's Grapes' favorite player

I cannot find it online, but he cites a game where the Isles were trailing 3-0 and Witter was cut pretty bad. He wanted to get back in the action even though he was playing for a last place team and there was no hope of winning the game. That’s Grapes’ kinda guy—his favorite player.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 25, 2010 3:23 PM EST reply actions  

Heh, that makes sense. And of course, that’s a trait about Witt that endears him to so many.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 25, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

The magazine, BTW, is Motivated.

They have a website but you cannot access the articles online—or at least I couldn’t. He was the cover on their Winter, 2009 issue.

Witt plays with passion every game. He comes out every game, he never quits, he blocks shots, he fights, and he scores goals [actually not so much that last, Grapes]. That is how I judge men….in my books, he’s the one that plays with passion, he’s my type of guy.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 25, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of net anonymity, do you know if any players read read your site (obviously not by name a simple yes or no will do)

Claude LaPointe didn't make as good a pun, sadly.

by LaChance at Glory on Feb 25, 2010 3:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

I think Scott Lachance does. ;)

No, honestly I haven’t looked into it — I’m pretty deficient in snooping into traffic and referrals and stuff like that. But I tend to doubt it. I’ve heard from peers who hear from family members of players, though, which would be awkward.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 25, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

A few weeks ago on islanders.nhl.tv, Matt Martin said in an interview he had been following Islanders’ blogs…

by BenHasna on Mar 1, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, in that case...

Lighthouse Hockey: Official supporter of Matt Martin

;)

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Mar 1, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah Matt Martin definite Calder material

He’s bound to win the Conn Smythe one day too!!!

by BCISLEMAN on Mar 1, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Gordon's System

Is his downfall. I think a slower more defensive centric system he might thrive in or at least not be as weak as he is now.

I think what happens is that if you want a Vet Dman and your looking around the league you see Witt in the AHL. You figure he could be had for cheap, and looking at his +/- if you don’t know enough about the Islanders you’d just excuse his large negatives for being on the Islanders.

"Martin is psychical" - In reference to Matt Martin being called up to the Islanders.

by Mark D on Feb 25, 2010 4:06 PM EST reply actions  

Anywhere and everywhere. From Europe to Alaska. Anecdotally, it has more to do with the family member’s personality rather than where they’re from. Though of course the hockey passion in Ontario and Quebec would make it more likely there.

(To clarify, it has never happened to me, save for one comment about another franchise’s original owner.)

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 25, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

As I have said before, the Tennessean Pred beat writer told me several years ago that Witter wasn’t re-signed with them because they thought he had lost a few steps back then. It is a combination of age, injuries, and being unsuited for the new game.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 25, 2010 4:53 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t doubt that may have played a role, but it always seemed odd to me: You spend a bundle on a rental yet you didn’t scout him enough to observe his speed, and your opinion changed after 20 games? To me that seemed more like money and fit to their system. Nashville has never been a big UFA spender, and they didn’t sign their next rental either.

I’d heard the same from some Washington fans, though: That they thought he was already on the decline, and they sold high. To me Witt was never a speedster. I’m not convinced he lost a significant step during 2005-06.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 25, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

The scouts liked what they saw, the coach going by what he head was excited, but when they got him there it just didn’t work out like they hoped?

"Martin is psychical" - In reference to Matt Martin being called up to the Islanders.

by Mark D on Feb 25, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

John Glennon, BTW

and he did say that he liked Witter’s nasty streak!!!

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 25, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Witt or Witt-out

I watched a lot of Witt and Simon in their days with the Caps. They brought something that this team needed, and does again. Speed didn’t enter into the equation for either player. I’m not going to go into the abandonment of Chris Simon, but I will say that Isle fans made a horrible situation worse (at least what I was reading and arguing against in the days of Alan Hahn).
Witt was getting the same treatment last year, along with Sim. These are guys that take some serious physical abuse to ENTERTAIN US… and we crap on them when their physical abilities deteriorate.
I think the system and years of wear on his body have pushed him towards obsolete, but Brendan Witt can play for my team any day. I hope, for his sake, he finds some resolution and gives his body a rest so he can enjoy the rest of HIS life. Surfs up!
If he does stick around next year it will be worth the $3M to this team (spent in Bridgeport) to have him around Hamonic and Donovan. The Isles got value for their money with Brendan, and will continue to do so, I’m sure, with whatever both sides decide to do next year. If they don’t sign Sutton and are shut out at the UFA market there are some scenarios that would have him back in Uniondale.

by JPinVA on Feb 26, 2010 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

…They brought something that this team needed, and does again. Speed didn’t enter into the equation for either player. I’m not going to go into the abandonment of Chris Simon, but I will say that Isle fans made a horrible situation worse…

I could not agree more regarding both players!

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Feb 26, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Witt was getting the same treatment last year, along with Sim. These are guys that take some serious physical abuse to ENTERTAIN US… and we crap on them when their physical abilities deteriorate.

I do dislike that side: We cry out for guys who sacrifice their bodies (and potentially health in their old age), but are quick to rip them and drop them to the discard pile when the inevitable consequences emerge. Reminds me of NFL running backs, who tend to destroy their knees for a few years in the limelight. Jim Brown and Barry Sanders made wise decisions.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 26, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

And in breaking news...

Andy Mac just received a four year extension! per Katie Strang.

i got 99 problems, but Streit gettin' hurt in the Olympics aint one!

by albeezle on Feb 25, 2010 6:20 PM EST reply actions  

Just saw that. Good for Andy, he’s definitely worked his ass of to get it and deserves it. I wonder how/if this effects Sutton?

Hating on NBC since 2010

by David Hanssen on Feb 25, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

can't see how it affects him at all

if Garth gets the right offer, he’ll move Andy S. If not, he’ll probably re-sign him for 1-2 years depending on the Hamonic timeline.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 25, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Sutton

:(
I am so bummed about him getting traded, CB is acting like its a foregone conclusion.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Feb 25, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, you can always hope he’ll Tkachuk his way back to the Island in the summer.

Hating on NBC since 2010

by David Hanssen on Feb 25, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s just so rare.
I think when Big Andy is gone, he is gone. And the Isles will have another draft pick I will see play in another few years. In the meantime, the Isles who exist right now will lose something they really need. Right now. :(

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Feb 25, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

A Mouse and Andy

I don’t think the Isles will resolve their defensive issues with guys like katic, kohn or ness. Andy has stated a few times that he appreciated the Islander organizaton. I’m not crazy about trading Sutton for a 2nd or 3rd round pick… I think they are beyond “depth” issues of 2013 right now. While Sutton is under contract with the team they can sign him and shut him down if necessary. If he goes to the Caps (example), that’s another 15+ games of physical hockey and 30+ days less rest.
Not to mention… i know this is almost ridiculous…. but the Isles aren’t out of it just yet.
I don’t think I’d overlook the fact that Hillen will be back… and Joensuu and Martin will make this team better down the stretch. You never know… well… if they trade Andy there chances really go down the tubes.

by JPinVA on Feb 26, 2010 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d rather have younger, faster and possibly less talented players who fit Gordon’s system then to keep around a Sutton or Witt who can get it done but aren’t the best fit. I think moving the Defense to the younger side of things is an improvement for this season and next.

Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!

by Mark D on Feb 26, 2010 1:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Fitz the Cat

I will apologize in advance for my ignorance… but if Andy doesn’t fit the Gordon System I don’t know who does. I mean we can all have our personal view of what a system is or is not, but Sutton has been an “EFFECTIVE” shut down guy who adds physicality to play inside their blue line.
Younger… I think he times out well with a 1-2 year extension with the anticipation of Hamonic or Donovan (or maybe Niemi) being ready.
Faster… it is what it is… Sutton has been an effective NHL defenseman before and after the lockout. When we scream for size and “toughness” OR speed and agility we forget about BALANCE. Sutton is an EFFECTIVE vet that brings balance.
Less Talented… WTF?
Best Fit… Andy, IMHO, has been a great fit, both years.. and I don’t see him dropping off that far where he won’t be contributing next year to a still very young D corps.
If Snow has talked to his agent and they can dictate terms in July… I might trade him so Andy gets a chance to play meaningful playoff games… but I’m not trading him if I can sign him before they give up exclusivity… even for ANOTHER second round pick. I just don’t like the way the D looks without Andy, especially if Snow gets $5 to shop at Bloomingdales.

by JPinVA on Feb 26, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

In Fairness

I did say Sutton Or Witt, so I sort of mashed them together. Sutton’s good, but at 35 he’s not going to get any better then he is now. I’d rather give those minutes to someone younger and see what they can do.

The argument I make is that the real way to punish teams is to improve the PP. That way when someone makes a cheap run at JT or KO or Bailey, They pay for it by giving us a goal, not just buy having to take a stiff hit back.

I don’t think giving the younger guys time is giving up on the season, I think their excitement and something new they bring to the team (Ala Martin and Jonessu) is something that can change things up and pay dividends down the stretch.

Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!

by Mark D on Feb 26, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m generally on board with that. Of course building a punishing powerplay is easier said than done, as we know all too well.

My hockey watching would be more content if more players decided the best way to respond was with a well-timed, hard, clean check.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 27, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

they really are out of it

There are advantages to keeping Andy and resigning him…but if, for example, Boston, which is looking for a defenseman, is willing to part with its Toronto second rounder which may be a #32 overall, then Garth needs to make that move.

Next year, the Isles will have Mark, Radek, Bruno, Andy Mac, Dustin, Jack, and presumably one to two FAs if Andy is not re-signed. We have, in De Haan, Hamonic, Donovan, and Ness three likely NHL-quality defenders of the future with Kessel, Niemi, and Klementeyev uncertain. We need to get possibly two quality defensive picks out of this draft. Using an early first round pick on Gormley and an early second rounder on McIlrath, Johns, Merrill, or one of the Archibald boys, depending on who is still on the board, should give us a very deep defensive corps by the time we begin to contend in earnest in, say, 2012-13.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 26, 2010 4:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Not a Lock Ness

BC, you are probably more in tune with this stuff than I am, but i will add this to the argument. I’ve seen a few of his games this year and Ness (IMHO) is a boy amongst boys. I don’t see him in the NHL anytime soon… or in my lifetime, for that matter… and I’m little mary sunshine when it comes to Islander prospects. I may have caught two bad games, but the disparity between him and Rhett (when they played Denver) was huge… far greater, again, in my opinion, than their age and development stage should dictate.
DeHaan may have made him a non factor, as Calvin brings all the same pluses and is getting it done on a bigger stage with more responsibility.
I hope I’m wrong… but the fact that Snow hasn’t made his second Minnesota extraction probably says that he doesn’t feel Ness is anywhere ready as well.
…and I’m hoping that the Isles improve on Bruno and Dustin for next year. I’d like to see Streit/MacDonald,, Sutton/Hillen, Marty/UFA next year. Dustin (AHL) and Bruno(?) can be there for depth.

by JPinVA on Feb 26, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Ness

I’ve only seen a bit of him, too, but I get that impression from limited viewings and from a few Gopher watchers.

Ness was a nice risk, but whether he’ll ever work out is probably an answer for several years down the road.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 26, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I seem to recall Logan talking about him

he seemed to regard his talent in a way that made him seem a possible future Lidstrom. He may take a few years to develop, but I am confident.

For the future, Bruno will eventually be gone and Andy Mac and Dustin will eventually be third and fourth pairing guys. Streit will eventually be traded…probably in his walk year. If we drafted Gormley (a prototypical Garth—Ryan—Kenny pick if ever I saw one) and McIlrath (need the snarl), we would have those two for our top pairing, Hamonic and De Haan, and either Ness or Hillen and maybe Niemi or Kessel as our top three pairings.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 26, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Hillen Streit Blues

Hopefully in Steit’s walk year (2012-13) the Islanders will be contending for their division and not thinking about trading a top 4 D for draft picks. That philosophy has to end eventually.
I may be too high on the Jack Hillen bandwagon, but I’d lean to the point that if he can come back better than Ellis Valentine, that he should be a solid 22+ min guy for a long time.
DeHaan is a big investment, so he will get an NHL opportunity if not late next year then in 2011-12. If your goal is to have three balanced pairs that puts Hillen/DeHaan/Andy Mac as the undersized half of those pairs(post Streit). Hamonic, Donovan and Niemi seem to grade out as the larger halves.
I don’t see guys like Ness, Katic, Kessel and Kohn getting much more than cameos… and that puts Ness even further down the depth chart unless he has MONSTEROUS years next year and the year after.
…and i didn’t even factor in anybody they might aquire this off season in the draft or UFA period.

by JPinVA on Feb 26, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

a lot of unknowns

defensemen take longer to pan out. I like Niemi, but McGuire saw him at the WJCs and felt he and Klemeneyev were projects at best. Ness and Kessel have a few years to develop. Donovan may be a find, but he’s only 6’, 185 lbs. Even with filling out, he won’t be a bigger pairing partner. If we got a good pick for Andy, we could use it to get Johns or McIlrath.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 26, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Super Size Me

“Donovan may be a find, but he’s only 6’, 185 lbs. Even with filling out, he won’t be a bigger pairing partner”

He’s not going to put anybody through a wall, but in terms of Islander defensive prospects, unfortunately, he’s in the upper 50 percentile as far as body mass is concerned. You might have to go to the tie breaking question when it comes to Sunshine Superman v the golden arches… it is what it is.

But I get your point.

by JPinVA on Feb 27, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I am saying that they NEED 1-2 bigger defensive prospects

I am talking about 6’3" 6’4" and well over 200 pounds. Somebody like McIlrath or Johns in this draft.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 27, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Klementyev

He’s an interesting one. What a whirlwind year for him — from unknown in former Soviet land to being whisked to the AHL to being a momentary pawn in the Petrov saga.

I read that he’s gotten more time at Bridgeport lately. At 19, so young, such a wide-open future.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 27, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

When I said there were unknowns

I meant to include Streit. How many more years will he be playing at his current level? When his game starts to go south, will it drop off rapidly or gradually? Will he get injured?

Ness was going to be a few years in development in any event. Kessel too. De Haan’s and Hamonic’s injuries probably mean it will be at least one more year before they will be playing in Uniondale. This will give Katic and Kohn a chance to establish themselves on the roster.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 28, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Streit’s decline will be an interesting to watch, since he relies on speed and mobility more than, say, Lidstrom or Pronger but less than Niedermayer. (Not to put him in their class, but they are easy style markers most would recognize.)

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 28, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he's making a strong case for being considered in their class

and I am not necessarily saying that his game will appreciably diminish over the course of his contract. In fact, as prospects mature and he has more talented players around him on, a more stable situation in net, and a more prolific offense, his game might well improve. I’m just saying that you should not assume that he won’t lose a step or two in the coming years.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 28, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

He has one very good year under his belt, and is working on a pretty good one. He’s also at the age of one’s typical “athletic peak,” but maybe he’s a Roloson — a guy with fewer miles on him than most at this age.

The lost step is certainly something to expect somewhere in the next five-six years, but who knows when and by how much.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Mar 1, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember Logan dismissing him because he was SO small, then relenting a bit after seeing him play.

I’m by no means closing the book on him — just saying with a pretty so-so year on a bad team, his timeline (already longer because of his size) probably gets longer.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 26, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Witt in AHL vs. Kohn in NHL

Even if Witter has lost a step, or isn’t playing as well, doesn’t it make sense to keep him here, pay him what you’re payinghim in the NHL, and give him small minutes? Why bring up Dustin Kohn, who is obviously not ready, to play small minutes?

This, In my opinion, is a poor choice. If Kohn is ready, then play him real minutes, not 10 minutes a game. How does this help? It certainly won’t help his development, will it? If Witt is so bad, why not keep him in the NHL, pay him what you’re gonna pay him no matter where he plays, and play him the 10 minutes a game? He can stay up with the big club, earn his warrior nickname, and let him have dignity.

I understand Witter can’t keep up, but this personnel choice puzzles me. Any thoughts?

by billymac23 on Feb 25, 2010 9:46 PM EST reply actions  

Kohn is being brought along the same way MacD was. Through his 11 games he’s gotten 10-11 minutes a game and hasn’t looked out of place. If he continues to show that he can do it, in games and in practice, I suspect that Kohn will start getting more time.

Why play Witt for 10 minutes a game when you know what Witt will give you?. Meanwhile you have Kohn, a Former 2nd round pick, you might as well see what he can do. I’m sure if Kohn doesn’t live up to expectations we’ll possibly see Katic when he’s not hurt.

Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!

by Mark D on Feb 26, 2010 1:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Snow Kohn

I don’t have a problem with them using Kohn exactly as they have, but in terms of the roster spot he takes up Snow has to step up next year.
Kohn is a 3rd pair guy at best this year and next. This team needs to be more competetive, if for nothing else, to show the kids that management CARES ABOUT WINNING. There are six spots. Without Sutton 6 of them will be under 210lbs. That back line needs to be bigger next year, and that means keeping Sutton and ADDING BEEF. Kohn has plenty to learn AND prove at the AHL level. They need to improve from the top so we aren’t arguing what the better option is between Bruno and Dustin… I feel that both of them should be non-issues next year for this team to be a playoff team next year… and it NEEDS TO BE IN THE PLAYOFFS NEXT YEAR. They are close enough…

by JPinVA on Feb 26, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

But how do you KNOW Kohn is a 3rd pair guy at best?

At the beginning of the season when Defensive injuries started racking up I mentioned MacDonald as a possible replacement (he was coming off a great season) and the word on him was that he might make a passable NHL Replacement but long term he didn’t have the talent. I think Kohn can prove himself, I like the way Gordon’s working him into the lineup, just give him time.

Please NBC, Fire Milbury, Hire Roenick Full time!!!

by Mark D on Feb 26, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Magic Eight Ball

you’re right, I don’t KNOW. I’ve watched the Sound Tigers when I could, and I’ve seen all his games as an Islander. He has never stuck out. Some of the games at BP I’d even say he was invisible. He is the number 8 (Streit, Sutton, Hillen, Mac, Freddy, Bruno, Marty) guy, at best, on what you’d have to term as a pretty thin (you can throw a dart into the vast expanse of NHL rosters and hit a D that would make this lineup 19 out of 20 times) defensive corps.
A few weeks ago somebody posed the question, “could Kohn be on the opening day roster next year?”… to Botta and his response was,“he shouldn’t”
So.. no.. I don’t “know”… I’m just speculating…. I guess like most people here who have watched about 90% of all Islander games from their birth, and every one from 2001 on…
Maybe he’s the late blooming Denis Potvin we’ve all been waiting for… hopefully he’ll learn how to carry and dish the puck a little better… and he can work on his upper body strength to… well he’s just a kid.
Save this post… if he plays 100 NHL games with more than 15 mins you can print it out and I’ll eat it…plus,,, so you’re not bored watching me feast, I’ll buy ya a beer and a Kohney.

by JPinVA on Feb 27, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

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Josh Bailey 12 LW 10/2/1989 190 6-1
Rick DiPietro 39 G 9/19/1981 190 6-1
Mark Eaton 4 D 5/6/1977 215 6-1
Michael Grabner 40 RW 10/5/1987 185 6-0
Travis Hamonic 3 D 8/16/1990 203 6-2
Milan Jurcina 27 D 6/7/1983 253 6-4
Andrew MacDonald 47 D 9/7/1986 196 6-1
Matt Martin 17 LW 3/8/1989 210 6-3
Al Montoya 35 G 2/13/1985 203 6-2
Mike Mottau 10 D 3/19/1978 190 6-0
Matt Moulson 26 LW 11/1/1983 205 6-1
Evgeni Nabokov 20 G 7/25/1975 200 6-0
Aaron Ness 55 D 5/18/1990 170 5-10
Nino Niederreiter 25 RW 9/8/1992 205 6-2
Frans Nielsen 51 C 4/24/1984 184 6-0
Kyle Okposo 21 RW 4/16/1988 205 6-0
Jay Pandolfo 29 LW 12/27/1974 190 6-1
P.A. Parenteau 15 LW 3/24/1983 193 6-0
Marty Reasoner 16 C 2/26/1977 205 6-1
Dylan Reese 42 D 8/29/1984 201 6-1
Brian Rolston 11 LW 2/21/1973 215 6-2
Steve Staios 24 D 7/28/1973 200 6-1
Mark Streit 2 D 12/11/1977 197 6-0
John Tavares 91 C 9/20/1990 202 6-0
Tim Wallace 36 RW 8/6/1984 207 6-1
Ty Wishart 6 D 5/19/1988 222 6-4
Calvin de Haan 44 D 5/9/1991 187 6-1

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