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Around SBN: Ellenberger vs. Sanchez Heats Up, Hughes Talks Retirement

Time for me to make some friends here; Trent Hunter has to go!!!!

Yes, the lead in is dripping with sarcasm.

I'm not a knee jerk reactionary when it comes to talking about trading guys. Trent Hunter is clearly a case of two things:

1) A guy who never developed beyond the 25 goal mark of his rookie season.

2) A guy, like Brendan Witt, who's career is in decline.

Star-divide

There are certain players on this team the fans have suffered some wierd kind of "Stockholm Syndrome" with. On my list over the last few seasons it's been Hilbert, Park, Hunter and Bergenheim is starting to slowly find his way on it. Hunter is a bit of a different animal though. Had he not had a 25 goal rookie season and followed up two seasons later with another 20 goal season there probably would be no need for this conversation.

To make matter worse, despite the fact that he never really lived up to those numbers, his career is in decline. This is no longer one of those guys where you say, "He had a good rookie year and has fallen off a bit. He just needs some time to get back on track."

Actually watching his game he has become a perimeter player. He's become the kind of player that other younger players get beef for. The ironic thing is that Hunter is vet so there really is no excuse for him playing that kind of game. UNLESS, as I've mentioned and repeated often enough here, you career is in decline and you are no longer capable of getting to the sweet scoring spots in time.

Hunter does have value on the trade market. Teams that don't play a speed game or are trying to implement one are perfect landing spots for a guy like Hunter. The backwards thinking on the part of the franchise is that this is a third liner at best. There really is no need to keep him beyond this trade deadline on a rebuilding team. If your really hanging on to a guy like this what does that say about your ability to draft guys that can even work they way onto the third line?

Those guys are a dime a dozen in any given draft!!! Not to mention easy to sign on the UFA market for peanuts.

As I see it, his value (IOW the best you could get) at this point is that of a third round pick. That's pretty decent given that this guy was a 6th round pick up by Anaheim in 98. A second rounder would be absolute robbery. Granted we are talking a late second rounder given that it would most likely be a playoff team picking him up.

My overall thinking is that another year with Hunter and we are stuck with another Brendan Witt situation. A guy you can't trade cause his career is on a downhill slope and everybody knows it.

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I understand your points, but Hunter is not going anywhere and it’s not because of his play. It’s because of his contract. Hunter is signed for three more seasons (through 2013) at roughly 2 Mil a piece. In order for the Islanders to trade him, they would need to take on a onerous a contract as Hunter’s. A 3rd would be a miracle of sainthood proportions if Snow was able to get that return. Even with all the player movement we’ve seen in the past two weeks, they were still matching contracts going either way. In today’s NHL it is difficult to find a taker for the long term commitment Hunter would be without taking on as bad a contract in return.

And on Bergenheim, while he may never be the scorer he was touted to be when drafted, he is a very good all around player. He is an aggressive fore-checker, terrific penalty killer and one of those grinder types you need on a team. He has become a stereotypical Finnish forward, not flashy or outstanding offensively but a good, all around player. I wouldn’t say my defense of Bergie is “Stockholm Syndrom” but an appreciation of all that he brings to this team.

To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!

by David Hanssen on Feb 13, 2010 10:43 PM EST reply actions  

Bergenheim

Agreed, I don’t think Bergenheim qualifies for fan Stockholm Syndrome for anyone who has reasonable expectations for him. As long as he keeps his careless penalties down, he’s a valuable piece whose contributions don’t show up in counting stats, but would sure be missed if let go.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 14, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

In order for the Islanders to trade him, they would need to take on a onerous a contract as Hunter’s.

The thing is, Hunters contract is not “onerous.” When something is onerous it is burdensome, oppressive, troublesome; causes hardship. Trent Hunters contract does not do any of that. There are a number of teams who would trade for Hunter, but I dont think the Isles would want to trade him.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Feb 14, 2010 1:18 AM EST reply actions  

Unfortunately, in today’s salary cap NHL three more years of a 3rd line checking forward who seems to be loosing his ability to check is just that, even if it is for 2 mil a year. First off you would have to find a GM who would want to take on Hunter’s contract, second that GM would have to have a contract of similar length and/or size to match up cap space. That’s just not happening.

To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!

by David Hanssen on Feb 14, 2010 8:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Hunts's contract is fine

the problem is that many GMs are so cap stretched that they can’t afford anybody who is not a UFA. Makes no sense to trade him anyway because you will never get what he is worth to this team.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 16, 2010 3:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Problem is we really don’t have anyone on the RW. Even in BP the RW is thin.

"Martin is psychical" - In reference to Matt Martin being called up to the Islanders.

by Mark D on Feb 14, 2010 2:20 AM EST reply actions  

That’s proabably another big reason we need him on the team. U look at our depth chart at right wing after Kyle we might have one other rw in our system that can be a true scorer at that might be Krill Petrov or maybe Rhett Rakhshani and that’s a big maybe. Even this draft coming up is more left wing dominated than right with the first true rw being Stanislav Galiev whos a 15-25 pick at best. So unless we get a couple of rw in free agency which is an extremly weak position this summer Hunter is here to stay

by rockhouse15 on Feb 14, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Keep in mind

That Hunter has never played on a line with a solid center. On a different team, he could easily be a 20 goal + scorer…especially if he gets back to getting dirty. I do agree, and said so a couple of days ago that he is the most likely candidate to go because he is cheap, reliable, and kind of a playoff guy who will get to the net and hit. I think given the picks that teams have traded for worse players, we could get a 2nd round for him…sprinkle in some Tambellini and maybe a first, who knows. I think him to Detroit or Chicago or even Montreal who has no size.

by Keith Quinn on Feb 14, 2010 10:27 AM EST reply actions  

I'm not opposed to trading him while his value is "highest," but:

Few thoughts on the post and assorted comments:

1) His contract and possible decline really isn’t a burden for the Islanders. $2 million is not an obstacle for a team that needs bonuses just to reach the cap floor. It could be an issue for a cap-pushing acquiring team, but at that pay level there’s a lot more flexibility in what could come back in return.

2) His decline may be there in a production and (sadly) hitting sense but he is not a Witt type because of a very key difference: He doesn’t hurt the team defensively. He’s still one of their most responsible forwards. Some of that is the bonus you get for playing with defensive-minded Frans Nielsen, but still: Hunter doesn’t bleed minuses like some of his attempted replacements do. I suspect he’s kept and trusted by coaches because he doesn’t wander off the reservation.

I agree he’s been perimeter-ish lately, which is alarming. Not sure if that’s from yet another injury (which you could argue further encourages a trade before his power-forward body suffers decline) or what. If they got a decent offer, I’d take it. He has a good shot and a responsible game that could help a team. I just don’t see him as a big burden either way, and at the moment I do wonder about who refills the depth at RW.

One more thing on the contract: They bought this arrangement when they signed him. He got long-term security, they got a rate that was cheaper than what he would have been able to get on the open market at the time. I’m not bothered by his salary right now, as it’s just how they spread out the price of a guy they saw as a character player then and now.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 14, 2010 12:43 PM EST reply actions  

By the way

I bet the way to really “make some friends here” will be a few years down the line, when we start doing the soul-searching questions of “Maybe Okposo and Tavares and [insert blooming defenseman] can’t carry us all the way against [insert deep teams with good checkers].” That will be fun; though standing here today it sounds like an enviable problem.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 14, 2010 1:58 PM EST reply actions  

Three point shots

someone needs to tell old Trenty-Boy that slapshots from the blueline with nobody in front of the net dont count for extra goals.. get to the net nancy.

Trade Hunter for a bag of pucks give Joensuu his minutes and bring up a young gunner to try and provide a spark to this club. Matt Martin is doing what Trent Hunter should be doing playing the body and opening up space for the scorers and he is actually getting to the “Dirty areas” something Hunter hasn’t done consitantly in years

by Big Swoopty on Feb 15, 2010 9:29 AM EST reply actions  

Joensuu is a LW

Trading Hunts makes no sense.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 16, 2010 3:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Hunter

excellent points regarding Hunter. I really didn’t realize it but he certainly is a perimeter player at this point. He does not stay in front of the net like he used to. He would be taking up a roster spot from a young kid so he should go. However, because of his contract I don’t know how tradeable he is at this point. If you could move I would.

by Nick Lazazzara on Feb 17, 2010 9:56 PM EST reply actions  

Bailey has been on the wing...

“Hunts” is terrible I could take my morning dump throw on some skates and replace that fat bald has-been/never-was. Hunter is not an asnwer to anything, he doesnt hustle, he is not an emotional leader or a producer. Either he is out of shape or just has bad gentetics. He may be one of those guys that cant help but be pear shaped.

by 1940forever on Feb 18, 2010 4:27 PM EST reply actions  

Josh is 2 inches shorter and more than 20 pounds lighter than Hunts

and he is a lefthanded shot. He cannot replace Hunts. Neither you nor most of the Isles forwards could or have replicated Hunts’ +5 on a team that is collectively -35.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 18, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

1940, if Hunter is so worthless, how on Earth does he manage to continually be one of their most trustworthy forwards at 5-on-5? His scoring will never meet what many of us wanted from him after his two 20+ goal years, but there is something to be said for holding down an NHL spot at 5-on-5 on a bad team while putting in more goals than you allow.

In fact, right now he has the second-highest rate on the team of points per time on ice at 5-on-5, behind only Matt Moulson.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 18, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah +/- can be deceptive but

when a player is 40 points better than the rest of the team, he must be doing something right. And I am still hopeful that with the right line combo, he could become a 20 goal scorer again.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 18, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Way too many people are missing this

1940, if Hunter is so worthless, how on Earth does he manage to continually be one of their most trustworthy forwards at 5-on-5? His scoring will never meet what many of us wanted from him after his two 20+ goal years, but there is something to be said for holding down an NHL spot at 5-on-5 on a bad team while putting in more goals than you allow.
In fact, right now he has the second-highest rate on the team of points per time on ice at 5-on-5, behind only Matt Moulson.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Feb 19, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Hunter is not good. Also, his skating should be classified as a war crime under established principles of international law.

The first thing I do in every new EA NHL video game is trade Hunter. (I should note that Sutton is shockingly good in the latest version, which accounts for some of my diminished hatred towards him.)

by AP77 on Feb 19, 2010 12:45 PM EST reply actions  

amen

I cant wait to see what this guy is show us after the break. Makes it look routine to not be able to get to loose pucks and the team acts like its fine that he slaps it on net from anywhere on the ice. BCISLES idk what game your watching but Hunter is not getting it done. plus/minus yeah its ok so hes sliding by but how can you say he is any good? He cant beat anyone 1on1, his passing leaves something to be desired, his 1on1 moves dont exist, he is one of the slowest Off players in the league and he’s not yet 30. Aside from all this and the most important aspect is HE IS GETTING WORSE! If we can deal him we should because he will get us nowhere in the future… The guy doesnt even finish his slow hits he gets credit for and god forbid he dropped the gloves… Hunter??? GTFOheaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Resign ROB SCHREMP in a hurry!!!

by 1940forever on Feb 19, 2010 6:24 PM EST reply actions  

he is a good two way forward who is a streaky scorer

he has never hesitated to step up when opposing players have taken liberties with his linemates. Just ask Frans. No he is not fast, but there is more to the game than that. Again when his +/- is not just good but 40 POINTS BETTER than the rest of the team—-well, if he’s no good then they better just trade the whole team.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 19, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand

You guys are high on him still. He’s a good guy, nice guy, showed promise and the Isles still try to pump him up cause hes under contract. Yeah his plus minus is ok but please just keep watching n see what this guy actually does on the ice. Turnover , bad dump/ice. Turnover, slapper from 60 feet.

by 1940forever on Feb 19, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions  

watching him definitely does not indicate that he is a good responsible two way forward… maybe because he has been paired with the top guys the whole season

BC if your trying to tell me you would rather have Hunter on this team over Matt Martin Jesse Joensuu Josh Bailey its clear that you are much more interested in your man crush on “Hunts” than you are in this team developing into a contender

by Big Swoopty on Feb 20, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Dom said it for me

see his post below. He IS as responsible a two way forward as this team has. Bailey’s future is as a center. Martin and Joensuu may become better forwards than Hunts….but they aren’t there yet.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 21, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions  

The question for me

Isn’t a matter of “being high” on Hunter — it’s a question of proper evaluation. Is he what’s wrong with this team? As a third-liner, no. Could he easily be replaced by some random draft pick or a guy in Bridgeport? Show me a guy who is already accomplished at not being a liability, and I’ll think about it. I have no illusions about repeating a 25-goal performances, but I also have no illusions about [insert 23-year-old forward here] replacing him and not bleeding more goals.

His game is flawed; I’d certainly consider trade offers for him (particularly while his value might still be relatively “high”). But implying he’s worthless is just hyperbole and frustration because he’s not fast or doesn’t produce like a true power forward.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 20, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree 100%.

I would personally add that anger with Hunter for NOT being a big scorer (even though it is proven that he is NOT a liability on this team in any way and that the team scores more than it lets up when he is on the ice) is a perfect demonstration of a “fantasy hockey” type of mentality. Real NHL teams are not made of just scorers and goalies!

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Feb 20, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Which isn’t to say, by the way, that I think he’s in peak form now. He’s definitely slumping offensively. But look around the team and … there’s plenty of that.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 20, 2010 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

yup he definitely is slumping.
But to pick him out on this team and say that he is the one who has to go? I just dont see it. Like, at all.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Feb 21, 2010 12:41 AM EST reply actions  

and if he really were that bad

why would anybody give up anything for him…including cap space?

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 21, 2010 1:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Trent is in a slump

he actually would have less value now. And the Isles really have no one who can replace him as an experienced two way forward who takes care of his zone. If you trade Roly and Marty, at least you know that DP is performing reasonably well and will get better and that Garth has built up some depth behind him. And Roly and Marty are not going to be part of the team’s future anyway. Andy S. would also be tough to replace at the moment, but he also is not going to be part of the future and is at least playing well and will command good value. There is no one on the roster or in the system who is even remotely ready to fill Hunts’ skates, the length of his contract indicates that he IS expected to be part of the Isles’ foreseeable future, and he will command minimal value on the trade market now since he is in a slump. It makes no sense whatever to trade him now and, as long as we have no one to replace him, that will continue to be so. I am hopeful that Garth will use a second or third round pick on Yasin Cisse who I believe will mature into a very good second or third line RW. He should be NHL-ready by the time Hunts’ deal expires in 2013.

by BCISLEMAN on Feb 28, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

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Josh Bailey 12 LW 10/2/1989 190 6-1
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Frans Nielsen 51 C 4/24/1984 184 6-0
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