Islanders faltering, freeze looming: Now begins the denouement
by Dominik on Feb 11, 2010 2:22 PM EST
in Roster Manoeuvres in the Dark
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PrintSo here we are. The Islanders have two more home games before the Olympic break, back-to-back against difficult opponents (Tampa Bay and Ottawa), with their two "size infusion" prospects assigned back to Bridgeport to beat Friday's roster freeze and spend the rest of February playing in the AHL. [Note: That may be the wrong assumption. During the NHL's holiday roster freeze, players can be called up "if roster space becomes available," but I've yet to see definitive word on how it applies to this very special Olympic freeze.]
The Islanders sit in 13th place with 56 points. To make what James Mirtle recently pegged as the minimum playoff threshold of 87 points in the East, they'd have to go 15-6-1 in their remaining 22 games. The Islanders have had no 22-game stretch that even comes close to that record. Their best stretch of the season was 10-3-1 -- including five shootout wins -- between Dec. 23 and Jan. 21. They enter the break still without injured Josh Bailey and Jack Hillen, two youngsters who have been big contributors during 2009-10's successful times.
If it's not clear to the players in the locker room (who understandably must keep the faith and try to entertain us to the end), it's clear to Garth Snow and fans what comes next:
A decision on Andy Sutton, a thorough exploration of what can be retrieved for a veteran goalie -- or two? -- a decision on Jeff Tambellini, and the work and evaluation that can convert Year 2 of the rebuild into a successful building block for Summer 3. While once I held the outside hope that the break could help rest the Islanders for a run while contenders' stars wore themselves out chasing gold, now that's moot. Now I just hope it allows a struggling and snakebitten John Tavares time to recharge.
Chris Botta listed a number of teams said to be interested in Sutton and/or Dwayne Roloson. Losing the pending UFA Sutton would mean losing a very steady defenseman who has shined this year and provided the majority of the blueline's physical play. If Snow cuts bait for an offer he can't refuse, I sure hope he has an aggressive summer plan to compensate. As we saw with Mike Komisarek last summer, size on the free agent market still comes at an exorbitant price.
The option to trade Roloson creates an interesting choice: It's hard to imagine Roloson, nearing The End, wouldn't like one more crack (or two) at a Stanley Cup run that hopefully does not end with a knee injury in the finals. He has been the better goalie this season and historically thrives with regular work; he would return higher value than Biron from a team that can fit his modest but higher salary and term. But does Snow trust the health and form of Rick DiPietro (2.60 GAA, but just .900 SV%) enough to make that leap? The goalie market is flooded, but Snow's summer replacement options are narrower than most because -- as we've seen with both Roloson and Biron -- it takes special circumstances for a proven NHL goalie to want to enter the shadow of the 15-Year Contract. Even more so now that DiPietro is back from rehab.
While Friday brings a roster freeze and the possibility of a trade in the next 24 hours, my gut says Snow takes the Olympic break to weigh his options -- including contract discussions with Sutton. Maybe even have another discussion with the coach about Tambellini who, at this rate, may play his final games in an Islanders uniform this weekend. [Or not: If Joensuu and Martin evade or otherwise are up outside the roster freeze, then Tamby may already be done. Regardless, he's...not in the long-term cards here.]
The season has transitioned from the outside hope of a playoff bubble run to the always more realistic evaluative mode. But as with last year's deadline buzz and post-deadline stress-free kids' play, there is more fun to be had.
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my gut says Snow takes the Olympic break to weigh his options
i think you’re right but if he does end up trading him then i hope he does in fact pull the trigger by tomorrow, i can see holding off on trading the goalies til later, but sutton’s value is only going to drop with every game we play
why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?
but sutton’s value is only going to drop with every game we play
Ha, is that a shot at his play, or are you expecting the buyers to thin out or value him less because of fewer games?
I think the pivotal thing is how serious Snow wants to get about an extension. If I were boss, the right hand would be gauging trade offers while the left hand would be gauging his salary/term demands. Then again if I were a GM, the adrenaline rush would make me pass out.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I would think his trade value would rise for both parties. For one, the team getting him would be on the hook for less of his salary and the value coming back to the Isles would increase, especially if some contender’s blue liners go down during the Olympics (It’s bound to happen).
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
especially if some contender’s blue liners go down during the Olympics (It’s bound to happen).
Do we know any biathlon participants going to Vancouver who might be looking for a little side work while they’re there?
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
fewer games and nobody looks great when their part of a team losing night after night
why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?
I think Eric Hornick tweeted / posted in his Stat Trick that Frans is the only forward in the past two or three games to have a goal? That might be a little off, but it’s close. I’m a bit troubled. This team is back regressing to what I expected, with Tavares on par, but it’s so up and down it’s hard to gauge where the true talent level lies in this team right?
At this point, I’m sure management is huddling somewhere and making the call as to whether they think the rest will benefit this team, or as to whether we trade off some vets and loose ends for future picks / prospects. I certainly can see the Sutton, Tambellini and Rolos moving out if only for the respect we have for them to allow them to contribute somewhere else effectively. If we like Martin and Joensuu (which I think we do, and Botta mentioned to move down might be more of a cap / salary result until the next few games), do we create space for them? Does perhaps Park or Bergenheim get a plane ticket? I’m a sucker for the forecheck guy who grinds it out in a 5’11 frame and never gets the attention, but my sentimentality doesn’t necessarily correlate with reality all the time.
I think Sutton would be one of the prized defenders if the team was to try to move him, but goaltenders might prove a might more difficult, with prospectively Price / Halak on the market as well as Turco now. The plus to Rolo is that he has an affordable deal with respectable numbers and he’s got an extra year if he’s up for it. ……But who knows?
At this point in time, who would you like to see brought in Dom? We could use some decent young guys obviously, a significant center or two would help down in Bridgeport for a while… you know, with superstar Romano playing the ECHL circuit and all… I’ll be patient like always, I’d love to build from within rather than through the FA market, so this could be a significant deadline for a team that wants to make a splash in the next year or two.
Who to bring in?
Warm, young bodies. With the offensive struggles, the only thing that will help is time/development and more upper-level players; whereas the only thing on offer will be roster/system depth or picks.
If another team overvalues Bergenheim, I’d take an offer, but at this point he’s fine at what he is: Hard-working forechecker and good penalty killer. Looks like the scoring side is never going to come around with him, but he still seems like a nice physical fit in Gordon’s system.
One of the hard parts is the players who will (hopefully) ignite the rise are players we have to simply wait with as they develop, both with Bailey/JT/KO and with the promising defensemen who are still a couple years away.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
To Washington with love...
If you’re going to send Andy, it almost has to be a yo-yo deal. I can see that happening with the Caps because they might not be able to afford him (at his age) for that long. But they might be the most willing to part with the most jewels to garner the prize.
I’d bet the stumbling block right now is Carlson… who would make the Islanders tomorrow as a RH defender they so desperately need. He has size and has 30 pt NHL potential. His PIMs don’t say “BRUISER”, but if he can push a defender as good as Bruno can scramble an egg, I WANT HIM. If nothing else he would mean depth on a very thin defensive org chart.
I really would prefer they re-signed Sutton for two years at a modest raise, but my prediction is Sutton to WASH for Carlson and a conditional 3rd (5th if they win one round, 4th for 2, and 3rd if they make the finals) That would be my offer if I was Snow. Plus the kid is from MA… the chowdah heads must love him. It’s a lot to ask, but Sutton puts them over the top… well.. that would be my sales pitch anyway.
We could use some decent young guys obviously, a significant center or two would help down in Bridgeport for a while
That help will be coming soon once the NCAA and Junior seasons are over. Rhett Rakhshani might be available for the play-offs depending on how deep a run Denver makes in the tournament (Unfortunately for the Isles it’s probably going to be a LONG run). Cizikas should see some time at the end of the season and has played really well in Juniors this year. Ullstrom might get a quick look-see when the Elitserien season is over, but HV71 will also probably have a long play-off run (Dom – I checked the CBA on this, Ullstrom can play in the AHL but would have to pass through waivers if he were to play in the NHL this year since he is coming over from Europe I believe. That is one convoluted document, and I am not a lawyer so don’t take this to the bank.).
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
That is one convoluted document,
You’re not kidding. A little piece of me dies every time I open it.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I was looking during the game last night about the waivers procedure and found myself three pages deep in how long the NHL teams can pay for a newly acquired player’s hotel accommodations.
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't it great?
I fondly remember a portion on moving expense paid to players in the event of a franchise relocation.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Paging Mr. Balsillie, Mr. Balsillie please pick up the white telephone.
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I’m super excited about Rakhshani! That’s a great point to bring up there. (Didn’t mean to jump on your back about the Albany thing the other day btw, sorry if I came off like that). The NCAA / Juniors kids are certainly interesting, though I wonder what the success rate is for them making it to the NHL (by draft rd or something), what do you think Hans? Go for some decent picks if we can get it and look towards the budding future? (Looking for opinions today to be honest).
Didn’t mean to jump on your back about the Albany thing the other day btw, sorry if I came off like that
Not a problem.
I think it depends on the prospect(s) that are offered and whether Snow and the scouting department have targeted someone specific in the draft. If the Brain Trust has targeted someone, they will do a lot to get him, whether it was trading down to get Bailey or aggressively trading up to get de Haan. If they have someone targeted, I would think picks. As for Bridgeport, they will refresh the roster this off season, definitely with Rakhshani, Ullstrom, Hamonic, probably Ness, possibly Petrov (We can only hope) maybe they convince some of their other underclassmen prospects to forgo their final couple of years (Kessel 2.0, Toews 2.0).
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Forgot about Jyri Niemi. His Junior career is coming to an end and will probably be with Bridgeport at the end of the season and next year as well.
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
It really is a good point. The spring influx of graduates always sneaks up on me. It’d be nice if Bridgeport made the playoffs to give them a taste of the pro environment.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
The East in the AHL is kinda like the East in the NHL this year. Bridgeport is in the 8th spot by 1 point, but are within 6 points of 4th or last.
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder?
If Mikko Koskinen hadn’t torn his hip labrum (Boy, we’ve heard that one too often around here), would we be talking about trading both Biron and Roloson at this point? don’t take this as not necessarily bringing Koskinen up in their place, but both Lawson and Munroe have had very good years platooning and having one of them back up DiPietro while Mikko got more playing time in Bridgeport. Damn goalies and their faulty hips.
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
I’d love for Lawson to get a shot. Got a chance to speak with him for a few brief moments a few weeks ago, seems really grounded but very committed to the team around him. Came off as a kind of guy i’d want to listen to in a locker room. He certainly has shown the ability, and realistically, couldn’t do worse than a MacDonald or Danis type for a backup right?
I was wondering that too. I would have appreciated the guts in dealing both, though I’d be cursing it if DiPietro faltered next year.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I think its way to early to deal both...
I’d much prefer them dealing Rolo (he should bring more, plus hes not as goods in the 1b role) and trying to resign Biron for another year.
Speaking of Mikko has anyone seen a status update he should be back by now or at least close.
It was only a hypothetical dealing both if Koskinen had been healthy all year.
When he was healthy, Koskinen was playing well albeit in only 2 games.
He has started skating, but it will still be a while before he is playing. The original prognosis of December was way to optimistic. He should be playing before the end of the regular season, but he might only get in another game or two this year.
When all is said and done, the important Islanders prospect might be lucky to get in 15 games this season. What we do know for sure is he won’t be back 8-10 weeks from Oct. 26. Major hip surgery and months of rehabilitation for a 6-foot-5 goaltender? A very tough break for Koskinen and the Islanders.
That was Botta back on December 15th in regards to Koskinen, at this point even 15 games would be optimistic.
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
No Way
do I deal both Biron AND Roloson unless I know Rick is healthy and NHL-capable. Sorry but I just dont know that yet.
Isles have some great G prospects- Koskinen is one, and so is Poulin. Im really psyched for that kid.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 11, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
It was just a hypothetical IF Koskinen had been healthy all year.
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
I would be ok with the Isles dealing one of either Biron or Roloson, more likely Biron. The Isles may get less of a return in trading Biron as opposed to Roli due to the length of contracts, but it would be best to ensure that the Islanders have two quality goaltenders leading into next season. As mentioned before, I want to see more out of DP before the Isles can put more trust into him being the lead go-to guy in net. I don’t think DP will be at that stage of his comeback until sometime next season. If the Isles can get Biron to sign for another season, then by all means, deal Roli, but unless that is a given, I’d rather see the Isles trade Biron.
As for Koskinen, I would like to see that he plays a full, healthy season in Bridgeport before giving him a slot on the Isles’ roster. Admittedly, I don’t know much about Lawson or Munroe to really say if either one should be backing up DP at this point, or even sometime next season.
Sutton should not be dealt and resigned if at all possible. The D Man market is not great, and the Isles have already shown that after Streit, they’re not a serious contender in it.
Sutton we can probably get a discount for for an extension. Other players…not so much. Give him a 3 year deal.
(Deal whatever goalie you have to)
I disagree. We’ve already been down the road of resigning an aging, late 30’s blueliner after producing a good year and got burned (See Witt, Brendan). Trade him now while his value is high, rather than having him decline and get stuck with a 38 year old with a year left on his deal playing in Bridgeport.
We don’t need to be major players in the defense market in free agency (It’snot like there are going to be any big names in this coming group). There’s help coming soon (Hamonic, de Haan, Kessel, Ness, Katic). Sign a Sopel/Tollefsen/Strudwick type of short term solution for next year. When the young guys develop 2-3 years down the line, the last thing the Isles will need is Sutton or some other declining vet roadblocking one of them from playing in the NHL.
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
I do believe this is what we call a straw man argument.....
Witt is a completely different circumstance:
First: Sutton has had 2 good years now (He was rated our top D man last year in his 20 games, believe it or not).
Second: Witt got terrible after we SWITCHED SYSTEMS. This is key. Witt’s decline wouldn’t be as fast or noticable had we stayed with the Nolan system. (From -8 to -34. Huh.)
Third: Witt played on a strategy that involved blocking a substantial amount of shots, which had to increase his decline.
You cannot simply rely on D men from within. Only two of those guys (De Haan and Hamonic) are for sure (IMO, or as close to sure as we can be) going to be Isles. The rest of them….uh, no, complete wild cards.
Sutton is a known quantity. Will he regress? Probably. But he won’t be worse than a 3rd pair D man by 3 years from now. And a good one at that. That’s what we’ll need. And we have issues signing D men.
First: In two years if Sutton signs an extension and he and his contract are roadblocking Hamonic, de Haan, Niemi, or whom ever the Islanders have in the system, will you be one of the chorus saying how horrible the contract was and how could we possibly have signed him to such a bad contract?
Two: In fact Sutton signing would be worse than Witt’s. Sutton has an injury history, last year he did not have a good year, he only played 23 games. he might have been the top in those games, but the fact is it was only 23 games. This is the first full season he’s been healthy since 05-06 with Atlanta. Witt was resigned when he was 33, Sutton will be 35 in March, two years older than Witt was. If he signs a 2 year extension, he will be 37 years old at the end of that contract.
While I agree you can’t look totally from within for dmen, the basic fact is you CANNOT resign a 35 year old to a rebuilding franchise when you can get a quality return in the trade market for him. Sutton is at his peak value right now for this franchise.
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
This is what makes me nervous about Sutton
I think he’s worth betting on for another year. For two? Risky but not prohibitive. If that’s what it took to sign at a reasonable rate, I’m fine with it. But I bet he’s looking for minimum two years and starting the bargaining at three or four. (I have no knowledge of this, I’m just going off how I’d expect an agent to treat it. This is his last contract where he can ask for more than “hey I’ll play for the cheap veteran depth rate” money.)
So I figure the discussion goes to a high price or high term, and if that’s not met he can probably test the market and get it from someone else. I want him back, but I don’t want to be stuck with him for three years if another injury next year starts the big man’s decline. He wants to stay, but if they aren’t up for meeting his (likely) wishes for a final big payday then he might be better off hitting the market.
The other wild card is the Islanders’ budget. I always treat it like I’m guarding my own stash, but they’re never going to spend to the cap so it’s hard to pinpoint where their realistic budget will lie. Hell, overpaying a bit for Sutton might be a necessary crutch to meet the salary cap floor.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I know, I mentioned it in a reply above. Niemi is closer than Donovan, who will probably play through at least his junior year at Denver. Niemi will probably be in Bridgeport next year as he will be 20 and I doubt he will go back to Juniors as an overage player.
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that Sutton should not be dealt and signed to an extension, since the Isles will need a veteran presence on the blueline while the prospects develop in Bridgeport. I mentioned elsewhere that a contract extension for a year could work for Sutton, but 2 years may be more adequate while we wait for players like Katic and Hamonic to develop, recover from shoulder injuries, etc.
GM Whiteboard
There are already two opportunities for improvement on the Islander blue line next year.
1. Streit… will be here at least until his walk year.
2. Sutton (UFA)… #2 is a big skate to fill already. Would really like him back next year.
3. Hillen… In the grand scheme he becomes the #1 puck pusher.
4. MacDonald… has bought Hamonic, DeHaan and Donovan time to develop.
5. Meyer(UFA) shouldn’t be on this board… but is an option if the Isles are ignored in July.
6. Martinek… for how long. Signed through next year, but I think he’s done after that.
7. Gervais… I hate where Bruno is. If the Isles had three Suttons, Bruno would be the fourth mover. Signed through next year, then an RFA… he stays around for omlettes and depth.
8. Witt.. if he comes back healthy I can see him as the third crease clearer again… but I’m not sure it’s in the cards for Brendan.
OVERVIEW: In a best case scenario we go into next year with three puck movers and three crease clearers. If we lose Sutton we have ZERO Clearers…. ZERO. They are pretty stacked on the puck mover side… Streit, Hillen, Martinek and MacDonald (with added depth of Gervais and Kohn)
All that to say… PLEASE DON’T TRADE SUTTON UNLESS YOU GET A SUTTON IN RETURN…. and sign him… 1-2 YR/ modest raise. If you trade him, it has to be a yo-yo… see above.
Yo-yo
Ma.
Sounds so unlikely. But maybe if the Isles overpaid him in the summer, as relatively few teams will be able to do. But as a veteran you can talk yourself into buying what’s going on here, but once you get off the Island and taste the good life, then you go all Billy Guerin on us and take a paycut for another shot at that silver prize. (I know, Guerin’s a special case: Not everyone gets a giftwrapped spot next to perhaps the top passer in the game. But I was on a roll here…)
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Overspeed=Overpay
Sutton is making $3M this year. In three years on the island he will have played ~160 games. At his age and offensive output (5g/12pt range) it would be hard for any other team to offer him that much. For us… $3M is a bargain, maybe even offer $3.3 because Charles Wang leans towards the loyalty side of a negotiation. I don’t think that kind of money is out there anywhere else, and he offers the perfect timing to allow the prospects to roll in. 2years @ anywhere from $2.5M-$3.5. If you have to give him 3 it’s not for more than $2.8 per. But I really think they’d be bidding against themselves.
Here’s why they need to do it. SUTTON WORKS in this system. This is a system of four two way forwards and one “D”. 245lb D that can slide down and get back don’t grow on trees. Hell, campoli had trouble with it. They need more size on D, not less.
Hamonic is the closest thing they have at least a year away… Donovan, Niemi and Klementyev are best case scenario 2011-12 guys as well. Every other “D” can limbo under the crossbar standing up… ON SKATES.
All that to say… PLEASE DON’T TRADE SUTTON UNLESS YOU GET A SUTTON IN RETURN…. and sign him… 1-2 YR/ modest raise. If you trade him, it has to be a yo-yo… see above.
An this is to say, I totally agree. The notion of this team without Suts scares me.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 12, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Sutton had stated (before the losing streak) that he likes what is going on here and that he enjoys playing here. I truely beleive that holding on to him is a better option because of several points. As Dom pointed out, size comes at a premium in the off-season. However in addition to that, FA’s haven’t been beating down our doors to come to the Island due to the facilities and lack of vision. If you pair that with lack of size and inability to offer a physical presence then NO ONE will want to come to the Island. Turning him free can only hurt the Isles unless we get someone big in return and that is not going to happen for a team that is contending. There is some size in Bridgeport but not enough to say that you can’t push us around at will.
Snow has a very difficult decision to make.
Will work...for playoffs.
We STINK
Let’s face it. Despite all the optimism we have going into each season we are actually as hopeless as the Kansas City Royals. What with our back-up goalie GM and our bargain basement minor league coach running our franchise under the shallow pocketed owner we can only stand by and watch in disgust as we wait for the Richard Park’s of the world to score a big goal when the game is on the line. Oh…our coach has sold us on this so-called “system”. How’s that working out? The goals are coming in bunches aren’t they? Oh and they are such evaluators of talent that if a guy gets a little ice-time and maybe does score a few goals (like Mr. Tambellini) well it’s to the press box with him. After all, he doesn’t play a complete game. Like oh, maybe Jon Sim does. How many shootout goals has Sim scored? Oh yeah…he’s valuable…he upsets the other team. And we can look forward to years of Blake Comeaus and Sean Bergenheims with their single digit goal totals and their double digit MINUS stats.
But Tambellini? 7 goals in what 25 games or so…really about 10 minutes a game…is what minus TWO. Better keep him on the bench until he can get those minus figures up I guess. Well at least we have Bruno to watch on the backline.
Great job guys…Charles you must extend those contracts.
Accountability 101
You make some valid points, but let’s just give it a closer look from the top.
Wang: Not a big fan of Chucky Chinese. I’d rather have had an owner that put the real estate second… but he tried that when he walked through the door, and that didn’t work. When he crumbled up plan A and gave Snow the reigns I think it was the first time in 20 years the organization started moving forward. I’d still rather own the team myself, but I’m only about $200M shy in the capital arena.
Snow: Given what he was blessed with when he got was "promoted" I think he’s done a fairly good job. I’m gonna throw away the 2 years under “committee” because he had a coach he didn’t ask for and a roster nobody wanted. Since he’s been handed the reigns you’d have to really nit pick to find MISTAKES. He hasn’t really made any blockbusters, but most, if not all, his moves have helped the team move forward…. except IMHO…
Gordon: I’m not sold on the guy, but over the 135 games he’s been here he’s done a fairly good job. The team is definitely more exciting than they were under Nolan (not his fault… come on… Sean Hill… need I say more), but they still can not FINISH. He has evolved somewhat from the first 100 games of single mindedness that consistently gave us the dead leg leg collapse extravaganza… Hopefully they can find the one or two pieces of the puzzle in the UFA market and with guys like M&M and Joensmooth to be even better next year. He needs to improve as well… or he will not be extended.
THE ROSTER: They still do not have ONE Marquee player. They do, however have five second tier guys with upside (Okie, JT, RS, JB, JH) and a solid core that includes some very good vets (Streit, Sutton) and some young players like Moulson, Bergie, Martin, Joensuu who will fill out the roster eventually. The problem is that their second and third liners are, in reality, third and fourth liners. The next two years is where the upsiders need to step up, and Snow needs to fill the holes from the top, NOT THE BOTTOM… because $16M(in cap space) is a terrible thing to waste.
Its actually $17.5 million right now and that is alot of cap space
This year it would have bought you a Marion Gaborik, a Mike Cammalleri, an Adrian Aucoin and a playoff spot……… Unless of course you are the Rangers
Garth will have more then $29 million in cap space next year let’s see what he does with the re/signing
mickeyboy7 invaded my head
Holy crap dude, in one (albeit lengthy) paragraph you have succinctly and eloquently, with just the right touch of sarcasm, summed up what I have tried to articulate in numerous posts. You hit just about every peeve I have with this organization. The only one you missed is the complete lack of team tougness and accountability for each other (ie. the unresponded to poundings on tavares). I would love to see you weigh in on that issue.
Im sure you complain on behalf of others, MickeyBoy- but not me. You can keep it.
The “back up goalie” and “minor league coach” comments are worthless IMO- utterly and completely worthless.
They completely lack perspective and as far as Im concerned they whine just for whinings sake. And your Tambylove is just the icing on the cake lmao. PLEASE. Speaking of cake lol:
I went in to this season expecting improvement. And we have seen improvement. If you havent, then you are not looking. Is everything perfect? Of course not… but only someone with the patience of a crying child would whine because it takes time. Building a team is not like opening a package of Twinkies abd shoving them in your mouth, its more like baking a cake from scratch. If you dont like some of the steps and skip them because they take time and dont cause the cake to be done immediately, well then your cake is going to SUCK.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 12, 2010 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
AMEN SISTER!
Take a snapshot of when Garth took over sole control (No committee) and compare it to today’s team. Match payroll’s. Match farm system. Match the roster… everything is better now.
Is 27th place in the league something to get all excited about… no. Is not sticking up for each other a party starter… no. Can you call the parade committe because the team scores 3 goals about as often as Stephen King finishes a novel… no.
We realistically are 2-3 pieces and the maturation of 5-7 others away.
But we’re heading in the right direction… and I, for one, thinks Snow has done a commendable job. I expect to see this team in the playoffs next year, and a contender for the next 10.
Enjoy the Kool Aid
Fine. Things are so much better. We are going in the right direction. We are a couple of pieces away. We have X amount of $$$ under the cap..Garth is doing wonderful. Sure. This 1972 season ticket holder (that’s year ONE of our franchise…I’ve seen the worst and I’ve seen the best) is nothing but a Tamby loving whiner.
I’ve been reading and listening to all this great future stuff thru countless ownership regimes and rookie GMs & coaches who all had the “system” that was gonna turn it around. Never happens. Every off season we talk about how we are in the running to sign these great free agents. We never do. Let’s face it…we are bottom-feeders. You don’t want to hear it but all we do is look for the guy who will sign CHEAP and hopefully catch lightning in a bottle. IE: Streit. But a possible 40 goal scorer? Forget it. That costs bucks. Remember Ziggy? I do.
So go ahead…call me all the names you want. I’ll still root. I still go to 10 games a year. I still watch all the other games. But I know this. We are going nowhere fast with this group. I wish I was wrong.
Here and now...
Frustration with this team and it’s 15+ year history of failure is understandable. I jumped on the bandwagon later in the game, in 1976, but have been through most of the highs and lows… but not with the same financial commitment (too far, then too poor, then too far again).
I really do think that Garth is doing a pretty good job… and I was the LOUDEST complainer when he broke up the continuity for the third time in 8 years by firing Nolan. This team FINALLY has a GM, who “gets it”, has a coach he CHOSE, and an owner that will (HOPEFULLY) appreciate the fiscal restraint, and allow for acceleration in July if it avails itself.
Unfortunately all we can do is sit back and watch… or not. I’m enjoying this team, even with some of its flaws… and I choose to WATCH.
You, on the other hand, have every right to complain. Just don’t give up hope.
I understand your frustration , but...
Every off season we talk about how we are in the running to sign these great free agents.
Heavens, who but idealists are saying that? We’re not in the running for “great” free agents, period. So I fully agree in that respect; we are the K.C. Royals from a budgetary standpoint. That’s a fact of life for now (and forever?), and the big question is whether Wang will spend more when this team is ready to contend and has a new building. (Incidentally, top-tier free agents are a very inefficient way to improve your team. Tread with care or here be Rangers.)
I’ve been reading and listening to all this great future stuff thru countless ownership regimes and rookie GMs & coaches who all had the "system" that was gonna turn it around. Never happens.
Which is precisely why a s – l – o – w rebuild was needed, without short-term fixes and more lengthy big-money deals on declining players. I can’t help think back to how Milbury and some fraudulent owners were a major contributor to where we are now, with a demerit to Wang for doing it his way and sticking with Milbury so long.
Of course, like others I think Snow’s done a fine job with what he’s been given, and the reason Gordon was hired was not for the bargain but because young/hot minor coaches who can grow in partnership with their GM is the trend in the league (Bylsma, Anderson, DeBoer, McLellan, Clouston, Boudreau, etc. etc.).
Yes, this is a low-budget team. Accepting that for at least the near term is the fan “cost” of rooting for this team, as is recognizing that it’s not going to change overnight. To think back to 1993 and now know where we’d be in 2000, then to think back to 2002 and see where we’d be again in 2007 — yes, it’s frustrating as hell, I get that. But considering the 20 years of crap that has made this bed, and considering the circumstances of a money-losing, virtually homeless club in 2008-10, I can’t help thinking the way Snow is handling it now — minus individual decisions we can all debate — is the only way out. That’s not kool-aid, that’s reality.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Your pessimism is noted
It may even be warranted. It’s certainly understandable. But did you expect Spano (the fraud), Milbury/Bowness, and Milbury/Shaw, and Snow/Nolan, etc. etc. to just come out and say that they had no plan at all? That they were never going to turn things around? You’re complaining about the things that EVERY owner and front office ALWAYS say about their teams. That’s what they do. Even if they don’t believe a word of it, they sell the team publicly, because it’s their job to do that. If one group’s vision proves an illusion, then the next group gets a try. We were two dirty, crippling hits away from beating Toronto in ‘02; that vision didn’t work for want of trying. When it all fell to pieces, they kept doing the same thing, barely scraped the playoffs, and that’s when it was obvious that vision wasn’t working. Now they’re trying this.
That, to me, shows progress. The frustrating thing about the Milbury years was that the team didn’t change its approach after it was disproven. If Snow had run out and re-signed Satan and Fedotenko and Comrie and Vasicek, I would be calling for him to walk the plank. Now he’s running with JT, KO, Bailey, etc. That’s going to take time to come together. When it does we’re going to have something worth seeing out here.
The suspicion has been earned, but don’t judge until you see the results. We’re only two wins and five points off last season’s full-year totals. That’s one good week out of an entire quarter-season remaining; they can do that.
Of course I'm an expert, I've seen Slap Shot eleven times!
great point
We’re only two wins and five points off last season’s full-year totals. That’s one good week out of an entire quarter-season remaining; they can do that.
this is the problem with this team, we get hot for 6-10, cold for 6-10, rinse, repeat, and through it all the fans, like the ebbing tide, either cheer or cry bloody murder
i get more pissed off when they you can tell the team’s effort/energy is down than i do about a losing streak
i get more pissed off knowing that if JT’s shots were 1/4 of an inch better, he’d have almost 30 goals and we’d likely have 4-5 more wins (or 4-5 more points at least)
but i dont get pissed off about our financial shape, gm, roster as much any more because i’ve had time to digest the reality of the teams situation, a situation that should improve little by little over the next 3 years… now if Wang and Co. keep the team on Baltic Avenue still by then, i’ll be mad, for me, i’ll be ok if we landed somewhere in the St. James to Kentucky area of the board by then…
why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?
Enjoy the Kool Aid
Right on cue with the “kool aid” comments dispersed to anyone who doesnt blame the coach and GM for everything lol.
Fine. Things are so much better. We are going in the right direction. We are a couple of pieces away. We have X amount of $$$ under the cap..Garth is doing wonderful. Sure. This 1972 season ticket holder (that’s year ONE of our franchise…I’ve seen the worst and I’ve seen the best) is nothing but a Tamby loving whiner.
I’ve been reading and listening to all this great future stuff thru countless ownership regimes and rookie GMs & coaches who all had the "system" that was gonna turn it around. Never happens. Every off season we talk about how we are in the running to sign these great free agents. We never do. Let’s face it…we are bottom-feeders. You don’t want to hear it but all we do is look for the guy who will sign CHEAP and hopefully catch lightning in a bottle. IE: Streit. But a possible 40 goal scorer? Forget it. That costs bucks. Remember Ziggy? I do.
So go ahead…call me all the names you want. I’ll still root. I still go to 10 games a year. I still watch all the other games. But I know this. We are going nowhere fast with this group. I wish I was wrong.
We are “going nowhere with this group”? Well, what kind of group would YOU prefer- trade all the kids (who you say arent going anywhere) for vets? OK. MIke.
Doing things the right way takes TIME. The decade plus before this rebuild, thats when things werent being done right… and Garth Snow shouldnt have to apologize for one bit of it. What he has to do (and thank god is doing) is FORGET IT ALL and just do things right on HIS watch- even if he has to hear it from people like you who cant get over the glaring, gigantic mistakes of the past!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 12, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Expectations Management
“Kool Aid” as you call it. It’s a hard sell after 16 years of futility… but you can’t hold Snow accountable for anything more than the past 2.5 years… and maybe even less than that. We were told to expect a downward turn for a while, and a rebuild.
This is year two, and we’re already on the upswing. If you could say that using hte current draft system we could be looking hopefully at the playoffs next year I’d have (AND DID) said you were crazy. Now I’m fully buying into it.
WHY?
Jack Effin Hillen! When everybody was whining about Long Islanders that were available Snow and his team identified Jack Hillen… signed him and in less than 2 years he’s become a tremendous NHL defenseman.
Mark Streit. This castaway 13th forward has become our #1 Defenseman, and got himself into the all-star game last year. Streit could benefit from more talant around him and less responsibility, but he’s handled what he’s been given like a champ.
Josh Bailey(and all that comes with trading down on draft day). Josh may have been rushed, but he’s a class act all the way. They skipped past some easy drafts to get depth in ONE DRAFT that Milbury couldn’t obtain in 12. can you imagine what a grat drft that turns out to be if Petrov, Hamonic, Donovan, Ullstrom, Martin and DiBo all get to see the NHL. If they just provide depth in the AHL it is an AMAZING draft. Give Snow and Jankowski a little credit… PLEASE!
Andrew MacDonald. He may be a Ted Nolan product, but Andy mac is proof positive that the “system” works. They are preparing kids in Bridgeport to be cogs in the machine. That’s from SNOW’S DESIGN… he’s not the first, but he is the first to implement it in the NY Islanders organization.
Okay… I’m tired of defending it… the ship is turning…
Dominic Moore
Just went to MTL for a 2nd rounder. We can practically get Joe Thornton for Andy Sutton now! and a 2nd + 3rd for Tambellini…. ….
.
…
……
I mean REALLY, Dominic Moore (8/7/-7) = 2nd Rd pick (2011) ?
I guess that’s the going rate for a Dominic Moore since it’s what Buffalo paid for him last year (Seriously, the Maple Leafs got more for Moore than the Isles did for Guerin). I guess Gauthier isn’t going to break into his new job nice and easy.
To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!
by David Hanssen on Feb 11, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
It was a good idea to put an escalator into the Guerin trade, problem was at the time the Pens weren’t that impressive heading into the Playoffs. So Snow made the mistake of not throwing in one if they got to the Finals.
"Martin is psychical" - In reference to Matt Martin being called up to the Islanders.
Also very important: Guerin had a no-trade
Guerin was able to limit his market, and teams knew that. That makes a difference. Pittsburgh: “Oh, Boston and Washington aren’t interested in Guerin? Well here’s my final offer.”
I still can’t believe Dominic Moore has gone for a 2nd rounder … twice! As I did with Zhitnik being flipped 30 games later to Waddell, I’m never going to blame Snow for not stumbling into the stupidity of his fellow GMs. Sometimes you just get lucky. Sometimes Campoli goes for a late-1st.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
That trade was painful and unfortunately necessary for Snow. It wasn’t as if he had much of a choice and the Pens knew it. If Snow would have told Guerin no that could have easily started a really negative spiral for the team. The Pens got lucky and that could have been thr first time that they got lucky with the Islander organization.
Will work...for playoffs.
by metalcoconut on Feb 12, 2010 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
Look at the whole picture
I do not diasgree, Metalchick, that there have been improvements. Notwithstanding same, should team management and fans pretend that the obvious problems don’t exist? Even with the best businesses in the best of times, you always have to seek and honestly evaluate your organizations weaknesses and look to improve them.
You obviously do not like Tambellini as a player. I and many others disagree. Any honest fan can list the attributes that he has, soft hands, a fierce wrister, shootout success and a history of scoring at every level up to the NHL. The frustration is that Gordon seems to have singled him out and continues to insert players whose list of attributes are much more difficult to identify. Even more maddening is the fact that while the number one reason that this team has lost 8 of 9 games is the complete lack of scoring, a player who could potentially address that weakness sits and rots while guys who have essentially proven that they can not score on this level (pick Comeau, Park, Bergenheim, etc) all play regularly. Maybe you are happy with that, and like to see the useless “progression” of Park and Sim, but for those of us who don’t agree with it, pointing it out is not “whining like a crying child”
If you want to hear whining, wait until tambellini becomes a regular 20-25 goal guy on another team. That’s when the real bitching and moaning will begin, and you can prepare all of your defenses of Snow and Gordon and why it wasn’t their fault that they couldn’t see talent and potential right in front of them.
Heh, I’ve enjoyed this debate, and obviously I’ve been one who thinks it’s poor policy to keep Tambellini in permanent cold storage. But:
wait until tambellini becomes a regular 20-25 goal guy on another teamIf that ever happens, I’ll eat a mouse. Please hold me to it. From Nov. 2 to Dec. 9 he played 14 games (all but one with decent minutes) and got 1 goal, a stretch that is all too familiar. He’s a useful talent, who the Isles could have managed better, both pre-Gordon and under Gordon. But if some other team thinks at age 25 (soon 26) he still has regular 20-25 potential, I’m not sure why they haven’t blown Snow’s door down already.
Tambellini, to me, is a minor decision — as in the stakes are very minor, the risk and reward low. I have quibbles with his handling, but the opportunity lost is not enough for me to burn down the house. There are far more significant decisions in the future that will tell us what Gordon and Snow are made of.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
found a mouse for you Dom
If that ever happens, I’ll eat a mouse.
why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?
Oh Great
Now youre gonna have Dom rooting hysterically for Tamby.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 12, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
LOL!
Did Dom know about this before he made the statement?
Will work...for playoffs.
by metalcoconut on Feb 12, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Get Tambellini on the first line and first powerplay unit, pronto.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
PASS THE SALT
Dom calls for trade of Matt Moulson, Jon Sim, Matt Martin,jesse Joensuu and Josh bailey for a 4th rounder.
Mrs. Lighthouse: “Why are you suddenly rooting so hard for Tambellini?”
Me: “Um … I sort of made a bet, I guess. By the way, do you like costumes?”
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
From Nov. 2 to Dec. 9 he played 14 games (all but one with decent minutes) and got 1 goal…
I know he is a rookie but Tavares has gone how many games with only 1 goal? Just for the fun of it how is his shootout record going? Therefore one can deduce that Tambi does have some value to the team. Unfortunately, the team knows that and refuses to put him on waivers and they refuse to let him crack the lineup for more than 2-3 games at a time. I really hope he gets a better chance somewhere else because I still think he can turn some heads and I don’t believe a 20 goal scorer prediction is out of the question for him.
Will work...for playoffs.
by metalcoconut on Feb 12, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I think he has value. And I agree with the first part — I’m not happy that he’s been excluded from the lineup except for apocalyptic circumstances, and I think he’d contribute. He always plays a complete game when he returns from a scratch. I bring up his production rate as he nears age 26 only to create realistic expectations: He’s still not demonstrated regular 20-25 potential.
Contrast it with Moulson, who at age 26 has scored fairly consistently this year and mostly at 5-on-5 (so benefiting from Tavares at times, but hardly benefiting from PP time — and definitely showing a more direct game than Tambellini).
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I do not diasgree, Metalchick, that there have been improvements. Notwithstanding same, should team management and fans pretend that the obvious problems don’t exist? Even with the best businesses in the best of times, you always have to seek and honestly evaluate your organizations weaknesses and look to improve them.
I do not see any evidence that anyone is “pretending the obvious problems don’t exist.” Like, at all. I only see people say it, like you just did.
You obviously do not like Tambellini as a player. I and many others disagree. Any honest fan can list the attributes that he has, soft hands, a fierce wrister, shootout success and a history of scoring at every level up to the NHL.
Really? Maybe you should ask me how I feel about him instead of making assumptions. Id be happy to share if youre curious. :)
The frustration is that Gordon seems to have singled him out and continues to insert players whose list of attributes are much more difficult to identify. Even more maddening is the fact that while the number one reason that this team has lost 8 of 9 games is the complete lack of scoring, a player who could potentially address that weakness sits and rots while guys who have essentially proven that they can not score on this level (pick Comeau, Park, Bergenheim, etc) all play regularly.
You act like Gordon is the only coach who has been frustrated with this kid man. A better question to ask is, Who HASNT been frustrated with Tambs? The answer, if you choose to find it, goes right back to the AHL. Remember… one organization already gave up on him entirely, thats how he wound up here in the first place!
Regardless of how I feel about him, for the life of me I do not understand why he is such a BIG HUGE DEAL to some people.
Maybe you are happy with that, and like to see the useless "progression" of Park and Sim, but for those of us who don’t agree with it, pointing it out is not "whining like a crying child"
Who in the world is talking about “progression” with players like Parkie and Sim? They are bottom line, low salary supporting role players. Apples and oranges.
If you want to hear whining, wait until tambellini becomes a regular 20-25 goal guy on another team. That’s when the real bitching and moaning will begin, and you can prepare all of your defenses of Snow and Gordon and why it wasn’t their fault that they couldn’t see talent and potential right in front of them.
I heard this same argument about Nilsson and O’Marra. Still waiting.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 12, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Tambellini v LeftWingPopulation
Jeff’s competion isn’t Scott Gordon, it’s Matt Moulson, Jon Sim, Sean Bergenheim, Josh Bailey and now, Jesse Joensuu and Matt Martin.
In every case of Jeff v X in my mind he coems up a loser… maybe not by much, but he is not getting more chances to show things he just doesn’t bring. His biggest assett may be “effort”, and we don’t even know that for sure.
v Moulson… first 20 goal scorer under Gordon… LOSE
v Sim… Sim has been doing exactly what he’s being paid $1M for… LOSE
v Bergenheim… put these two in a cage with a puck and the only thing that comes out is Sean… because the puck is up Jeff’s (!).
v Bailey… really… this may be the only “psychical” battle jeff wins, but Josh brings so much more to the table, and UPSIDE it’s not even an argument.
vJoensuu/Marin… that ant might move that rubber tree plant, but he can’t move Ed Jovanowski, Pronger, Gill… et al.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Jeff… always have… he just hasn’t done enough with his opportunities to take ice time aaway from any of those guys… and if you talk about the RW he faces similar one on ones… and on the off wing.
Ok, but i don't know how to do the fancy posting
Alright MetalChick, i’ll bite…..
How do you feel about tambellini as a player?
Who else was frustrated with him? Nolan? He played vets with a different type of team. He’s gone, BTW.
Capuano have any problems with him scoring all those goals in CT?
LA got back veteran help for a very young player, not sure that’s giving up.
If we are in a rebuild, as we should be, what exactly are Park and Sim supporting? Wouldn’t it be better to plug even younger and cheaper guys in to those spots to see what we’ve got for the future?
Neither O’Marra nor Nilsson put up even close to the numbers in the AHL that tambellini has. despite that it was a dumb trade and i said it that day.
Ok, but i don’t know how to do the fancy posting
Just highlight text you want to quote, then click the [quote marks] icon above the text box. Rule of thumb: Always hit “preview” before you post to make sure you haven’t royally funked something up.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Alright MetalChick, i’ll bite…..
How do you feel about tambellini as a player?
I think Tambs is a nice guy, and talented, but that he is utimately a very frustrating player to coach. Why do I think that? Because the things he needs to fix are not really coachable. Tambs doesnt need to be taught how to skate, how to take a great shot, any of that. He has shown that he knows how to do those things and do them pretty well, too. What he needs to do is develop an almost intangible quality- the drive to push himself and take his talent to the limit. How do you coach a guy to do that? You can tell him, and Tambs, being the nice, reasonable, personable guy he is, will listen. But, hearing the words doesnt seem to correlate with ingesting it and knowing it- in his gut. I wish it did.
I dont agree with keeping him in limbo… but at the same time, I understand many of the times he has been out of the lineup. I also agree that he does have value… but I just cant bring myself to label him as a 20+G scorer in the NHL- because its something he has never done, and never shown the on-ice self-motivation to do.
I wish that he was doing what Jason Blake did… he was looked at as a low-producing almost tweener type too but over a long period of time, he raised his production. Year after year, he showed more and more. Heck, I wish Tambs was doing what Matty Moulson is doing- he had the tweener label in a way, too- but when he had a chance here he gave it his all. Matty IMHO is never going to be more than a 20-25G scorer himself… but he might continue to improve in a Blakelike manner, who knows? Will Tamby do that? I have no reason to say yes- except my hope and desire for it to happen since the Isles have invested a lot of time and hope into him. But wishing and hope arent enough. When it comes down to it, the fact that Tambs isnt in the lineup every night and producing is not the fault of two different organizations as well as every single NHL coach he has ever had, it is simply the fault of Tambs himself. And no matter how much I like him as a person, I see that to be true. Can he change that? We will see… but time is running out. The rules of the NHL are not made to develop a guy much longer than this. He has been given more time to develop than 99% of the other guys who have produced as much as he has.
Who else was frustrated with him? Nolan? He played vets with a different type of team. He’s gone, BTW.
Like I said before- if you try to name a coach anywhere who WASNT frustrated with him, your answer will be straight out of the AHL.
Capuano have any problems with him scoring all those goals in CT?
There you go.
LA got back veteran help for a very young player, not sure that’s giving up.
So, wait- LA trading away a young player for someone else isnt giving up on him in your opinion? Hows that? I dont see how you can call it anyhting BUT giving up on a player!
If we are in a rebuild, as we should be, what exactly are Park and Sim supporting? Wouldn’t it be better to plug even younger and cheaper guys in to those spots to see what we’ve got for the future?
You cannot have an ENTIRE team under 24. Its not reality.
Neither O’Marra nor Nilsson put up even close to the numbers in the AHL that tambellini has. despite that it was a dumb trade and i said it that day.
They both had the same exact hysteria because of when they were drafted, and the exact same argument was made about both of them when the Isles gave up on them and traded them away. (Or will you argue that the Isles DIDNT give up on either of them when they traded them away?)
As far as that trade being “dumb” I completely disagree. That trade had no downside, and a lot of potential upside. Did the upside work out? No- but the Isles did not lose out for trying.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 12, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
One more thing...
Wouldn’t it be better to plug even younger and cheaper guys in to those spots to see what we’ve got for the future?
Another reason this cant happen: Besides the idea of an entire team being teenagers and guys in their early to mid 20s, there is another factor looming. The cap prevents the Isles from going much younger and cheaper… the Isles already have the 2nd lowest payroll in the entire NHL, and with the subtraction of Witt they might even be the lowest now. If they went younger, that would make them cheaper because you can only give kids so much… and the team cant really GET cheaper or else they would be below the cap floor!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 13, 2010 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
fancy posting
Did that work. if so, thanks. If not, I’m hopeless.
The one part did! The “preview” button next to the “post” button gives you a look at the comment as it will appear if you hit post.
Also: If you’re replying to a specific comment, there is a “reply” button next to their name and time stamp. Next week: Nuclear physics.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Could be browser and stuff too, depending on your system and software. I’m not well-versed in these matters.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
We now interrupt this argument...
As a newcomer here I’d just like to take a moment to complement you guys (& gals) for an entertaining discussion. I enjoy a good battle that doesn’t deteriorate into a mudslinging shouting match. Wait a minute…I kinda enjoy those too! Seriously though, although we may not agree completely, it’s nice to be among serious Islander fans.
Now back to the regularly scheduled shouting.
I completely and totally agree with you. :)
I hate to fight but I love to debate… and Dom has a site here where people debate without fighting. Its refreshing.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 12, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks, MickeyBoy7
I don’t think I gave you the customary “welcome” for new posters — sorry for that, I stepped right into the argument without exchanging pleasantries!
But the feeling is mutual, and it’s exactly what I hope we can do here: Debate passionately but respectfully, hopefully with a bit or reason behind our points. My most intense debates are with my closest friend, and we only rarely come to blows, haha. I try to encourage this place to be like a night at the local put, debating sports, occasionally telling your friend he’s crazy as you buy him a beer.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
to be continued
Couldn’t agree more, Mickeyboy7. It’s cathartic to be able to debate and discuss this team with people who may not agree with my points, but clearly follow this team with the same passion and intensity that I do. the posters on this site know their sh@t.
After all, as Mr. Wang loves to remind us…. (I can’t believe I’m actually going to write this, ok, here goes)…..WE"RE ALL ISLANDERS!!
the posters on this site know their sh@t.
So true!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 12, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
It’s cathartic to be able to debate and discuss this team with people who may not agree with my points, but clearly follow this team with the same passion and intensity that I do.
Hell yes, that’s what I’m talking about!
Big thanks to everybody. What I really love is that everyone keeps making me think and question my own assumptions.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Carolina move of Cullen
They got Picard and a 2nd rounder. This is the type of return we need to get for our players, wish we woul dhave found someone to move for that trade
by Rickfansince76 on Feb 13, 2010 12:23 AM EST reply actions
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|
Montreal
|
Thu 02/09 | L 2 - 4 |
|
@
Philadelphia
|
Tue 02/07 | SO - W 1 - 0 |
Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
New York Rangers
|
55 | 37 | 13 | 5 | 79 |
|
Philadelphia
|
56 | 31 | 18 | 7 | 69 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
56 | 32 | 19 | 5 | 69 |
|
New Jersey
|
56 | 32 | 20 | 4 | 68 |
|
New York Islanders
|
56 | 24 | 24 | 8 | 56 |
(updated 2.15.2012 at 8:59 AM EST)
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