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The Albany AHL situation

Do not misinterpret this as reporting by yours truly. But I know we have our share of Albany and broader upstate readers around here, so if anyone has thoughts on Albany's AHL situation (such as this one at Gross Misconduct), this is a good thread in which to share them.

A not very well-kept secret became official today: The River Rats are being sold and will be relocated to Charlotte, closer to their NHL parent Hurricanes. Meanwhile, Albany movers and shakers will push to bring a different AHL club to the area. A local car dealer is making noise about bringing another AHL team to Albany, even relaying through his CFO:

He is in initial discussions with the Bridgeport Sound Tigers. ... [the] CFO says he wants the people of Albany to have a hockey team.

Before you get too stirred, Mike Fornabaio already talked to Sound Tigers president Howard Saffan about that report and got yet another reassurance that the Sound Tigers are not for sale and have a long-term lease. [After the jump: A little intuitive reasoning.]

Star-divide

Now, outside of extraordinary circumstances, a team president is not going to trumpet that his team is for sale mid-season. But on the other hand, for a car salesman -- whose motivation might not be restricted to hockey, but also to keeping his name in a positive light for the locals who are about to lose their hockey club -- "initial discussions" could easily amount to:

"Hey, can I buy your team?"

>>"No."

"Pretty please?"

>>"Only for a billion dollars."

..."My people will get back to you with a counter-offer."

What I'm saying is there are many motivations a local businessman (who markets to local consumers in a relationship that traffics in trust and goodwill) might have to keep hope alive for Albany hockey, "for the people of Albany." And even if his interest is 100% hockey-driven, he's still going to make noise wherever he can to keep himself on the radar in the AHL's annual franchise shuffle.

Anyway, beyond that, I'm not going to get into speculation here. But several of you have shared thoughts on Albany hockey in the past. And a few have brought up memories of the Capital District Islanders of Troy, a product of those lovely IHL-AHL wars of yore.

So be you local or long distance, if you have any grievances, memories, hopes or other bits to get off your chest about local hockey or the Islanders' AHL affiliate, by all means bare your soul here.

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First off, the Sound tigers are not going anywhere any time soon. The team is owned by Wang, who also has a stake in The Arena at Harbor Yard, so there will not be a reincarnation of the Capitol District Islanders. The only way Wang is selling the Sound Tigers is if he sells the Islanders outright.

Now a couple of things on Albany:

NEVER trust anything Billy Fucillo has to say. Ever. He is upstate’s version of Brad Benson, a Hyundai dealer who happens to be mobbed up and has a giant inflatable version of himself at one of his dealerships. If anyone has ever spent time upstate they are familiar with his famous Huuuuge! catchphrase.

They are desperate to get a new team in there though, or else they wouldn’t be reaching out to Bridgeport AND Hartford to move into the Knickerbocker (Both teams that are incidentally owned by their parent clubs). This is the first time in over a decade that Albany has had a geographic rival (Adirondack Phantoms in Glenns Falls), and both teams have benefited from it.

Unfortunately I doubt that Albany will have an AHL affiliate next season, it just doesn’t look like there is a team willing to move their affiliate there. I always thought once the Devils moved to Lowell that the River Rats days were numbered. No one is going to care about an AHL team when A) The parent club does not have a rooting interest in the area to begin with or B) The parent club’s games cannot be seen regularly on TV.

Well, Adieu River Rats, I have some very fond memories of going to games there during my time in Albany. Whether it was going to a game during a blizzard and being one of 50 in attendance (And the arena having to cancel the concert the following night because they were afraid the roof would collapse because of all the snow), watching Rick DiPietro as a Sound Tiger there in 2001-2002, the epic failures that were Ari Ahonen, Barry Tallackson and Toumas Pihlman and The Skrlac Pack, founded in honor of long time Albany enforcer Rob Skrlac.

To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!

by David Hanssen on Feb 10, 2010 1:19 PM EST reply actions  

With due respect to everyone, It’s not the first time in the past few weeks that i’ve heard the Bridgeport name come up in talks with potential moves to the Albany area. Dom knows well enough that I make it out to a good 70% of the games or so, so it’s a shame it’s come to seeing a relatively long hockey streak come to an end. The B’port to Albany speculation certainly wouldn’t hurt me, but I’m skeptical at the moment. In reference to Billy Fucillo, it could be one of the best moves to bring in a high octane guy who loves the face time. Albany needs a spark and a cash influx, and Fucillo gets his name out there (love him or hate him). What more can you ask of an owner than to promote the team and get people in the seats? He’d be a great addition to the Isles franchise at that.

The big question I have however, and one that i’ve asked around for several weeks without a definitive answer is why a team like Anaheim isn’t at the very least taking a look at the Rats. From my understanding, the Rats themselves are being bought out and moved to Charlotte, to replace the former (IHL?) Checkers into the AHL. However, we’ve had 29 teams in the AHL for countless years, and 2009-2010 looked to be the first year where every NHL team had an individual affiliate…..until the HOGS didn’t pay up. If it’s only for a one or two… or even three year agreement, it gives Anaheim and Albany time to consider options for the long term future in the meantime. It’s certainly reaching at the moment, but it’d be a crying shame for Albany to lose out on minor league hockey..

by albeezle on Feb 10, 2010 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

The main (and really sole) reason Bridgeport is not moving is it and part of The Arena at Harbor Yard is owned by Charles Wang and he is not selling the team. Period. It’s the same reason why the speculation of the Wolf Pack to Albany won’t happen MSG and Dolan own the team and the Civic Center.

To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!

by David Hanssen on Feb 10, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

you don’t have to sell a team to move a franchise… and even if I doubt Bridgeport moving, neither you nor I are inside Wang’s head.

by albeezle on Feb 10, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t have to be inside Wang’s head, it’s just common sense. Why would he move a team from an arena he is part owner of and helped finance its building to an arena that he doesn’t own and, lets be honest, is not anywhere near the quality of the facility that he has in Bridgeport? Part of the whole Sound Tigers moving to Albany rumor was that Fucillo would be buying the franchise, which is not happening either.

To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!

by David Hanssen on Feb 10, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Been wondering about Anaheim, too. The whole 29-team thing has really kept things silly the past several seasons. I remember seeing that the one-year option for Springfield isn’t ideal for an NHL club. But you almost wonder if Anaheim now implicitly controls the fate of both Springfield and Albany.

Thanks for the lengthy responses, guys.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 10, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve been trying to find out the situation regarding the Anaheim Chops and its farm team situation. I do know that they had lost their AHL franchise in Iowa due to the Iowa Chops not being able to come up with the necessary money to stay in the AHL. The Ducks were more or less screwed over in the whole charade and had to scramble to find places for their prospects and other minor league players, including placing some players in the ECHL since there was no room for them at other AHL teams.

The Oilers have brought back their dormant AHL franchise, which will be located in Oklahoma City. A number of the Western NHL franchises have been moving towards doing this, because it makes a little more sense to them not to have their prospects playing on the other side of the continent. The AHL is slowly becoming more of a coast to coast league, so who knows if there will be teams in places like Bridgeport or Binghamton down the line.

So I believe that there will be 30 AHL teams next season. Where the Islanders, Ducks, Albany, etc. will fit into the equation remains to be seen.

by Dougtone on Feb 10, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

First, let me say I AM a die hard isles fan. I live in the Albany area. But, I do have to say If Albany is looking to try and get a “home” team here, it shouldn’t be the isles. Pro hockey is this area is lukewarm at best, and lets face it, the Isles are an afterthought in their OWN market. They are hardly covered in the NY papers and media. It sucks, but its the truth. They have become irrelovant. Just think of how poorly that translates to upstate NY? People up here wouldnt care if we got the isles farm team anymore than if we got the Blue Jackets farm team. The Rangers farm team? Might put a few more people in the seats, but we have seen over the past 10 years that Albany is a 3,200-3,500 fans a night team. For selfish reasons, i would LOVE to have the isles farm team back here, but I dont think it would make a difference either way.

by SteveP212 on Feb 10, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Steve: Thanks for joining and sharing your views on this. Interesting stuff. Sorry you guys are losing a team … however it works out, this experience stinks.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 11, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

According to the Albany Times Union article, the two main teams that could be replacing the River Rats in Albany are the Hartford Wolfpack or Lowell Devils. The Devils used to have their affiliate in Albany, and began an affiliation with Lowell in 2006. I believe that move was based on the idea that the Devils purchased what was the Lowell Lock Monsters. I also heard rumblings about the Adirondack Phantoms moving to Albany, but my understanding is that the owners of the Phantoms have a 3 year lease in Glens Falls.

I don’t think the Sound Tigers will be moving to Albany. However, as an Upstate New York resident who certainly spends plenty of time around Albany, I wouldn’t mind it at all.

by Dougtone on Feb 10, 2010 2:20 PM EST reply actions  

Phantoms have a 3 year lease but can opt out after two. I believe, however, that a new arena is being built for them in Lehigh Valley, PA. This was only a short term stay.

by SteveP212 on Feb 10, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

The Phantoms drew very well in the Spectrum, but since the Spectrum was being torn down to build the entertainment complex known as Philly Live, the Phantoms had to go somewhere. The Glens Falls Civic Center was without a hockey tenant , so it was a good short term fit for the Phantoms. The Phantoms were acquired last year by the Pittsburgh-based Brooks Group, with the intent of eventually moving the team to the Lehigh Valley.

Unfortunately, the Glens Falls/Saratoga Springs market is probably too small for the AHL for the long term.

by Dougtone on Feb 11, 2010 7:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Its sad that the River Rats are moving and probably changing names too.

The Devils and River Rats were like the Yankees to the Columbus Clippers.

"Martin is psychical" - In reference to Matt Martin being called up to the Islanders.

by Mark D on Feb 10, 2010 2:29 PM EST reply actions  

There’s still plenty of Devils fans in the Albany area. But I have a feeling that the River Rat name will remain in Albany, even if they host a team in the ECHL (maybe the Islanders can move the Utah Grizzlies to Albany?)

by Dougtone on Feb 10, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

The Grizzlies name has been around pretty long too. I remember watching when Salo lead the Utah Solar Bears to the league championships. He was nick named Super Salo and I couldn’t believe he wasn’t on the Islanders already.

"Martin is psychical" - In reference to Matt Martin being called up to the Islanders.

by Mark D on Feb 10, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s right — Denver Grizzlies in the IHL, Solar Bears started in Orlando, didn’t they? Wow, this stuff is jogging the memory.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 10, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

This sucks! I grew up watching the Rats while they were the Devils team for years. We had season tickets when they played in Troy and were the Isles farm team. Never drew very well there, but picked up once they switched to Albany and became the Rats. Hope they can get another team soon. Adirondack just got a team back and they didn’t have time to renew their rivalry. Back when Adirondack was the red wings farm team, the Rats set the single game attendance record for the AHL in a game against the Wings.

by The Fitz on Feb 10, 2010 2:54 PM EST reply actions  

I had a partial season ticket plan for the River Rats for two seasons. Attendance was good for the River Rats during the late 1990s when the team was winning Calder Cups, but dropped in recent years, both while the team was still a Devils farm team and as a Hurricanes farm team.

by Dougtone on Feb 10, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Umm not quite. They set a TEAM record for attendance vs the Wings, but NOT even close to the AHL record, which is around 20,000 For a game between Carolina and Kentucky in 1997. Bottom line, the Rats are drawing BARELY 3,500 a game now.

by SteveP212 on Feb 10, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes that may be true. But the game was in like 1995, which, as any college grad can tell you, was BEFORE 1997. It was a record at the time.

by The Fitz on Feb 10, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Springfield Possibly

The Edmonton Oilers just announced that they are yanking their AHL agreement with the Springfield Falcons and relocating to Oklahoma City. That leaves Springfield without an NHL affiliate. GM Bruce Landon said that the franchise is committed to Springfield for another season, 2010-11, but after that all bets are off.

Albany could be a possible landing spot for the Springfield Falcons. The Falcons have had poor attendance and poor teams since an improbable playoff run in 2002-3 when Rob Murray was back with the team. Attendance sucked back then, I interned with the Falcons writing online content and game reports and they averaged 2,500 any given night, maybe 4,000 for the playoffs.

by Jones79 on Feb 10, 2010 5:22 PM EST reply actions  

Lowell could be another AHL team on the move. The Lowell Devils’ lease at the Tsongas Arena ends at the end of this season, plus they seem to draw the least amount of fans of any AHL team by far. But the Devils seem to be committed to Lowell for the time being.

by Dougtone on Feb 10, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

What about moving the tigers to Kansas City? the Isles are moving here anyway…

by Islesfan on Feb 10, 2010 6:04 PM EST reply actions  

Sadly, i think you are right.

by SteveP212 on Feb 10, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh PLEASE

I think some of you emo kids need to listen to Autograph or Hurricane or Keel or Kix or something. The crying and feeling sorry for yourself vibe is getting to be too much lol.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Feb 12, 2010 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't count the Rats out yet

Bob Belber, GM for the Times Union Center was just interviewed on a local sports radio station. They have known about the intent to sell the Rats franchise since last fall, and since then have been actively seeking out a replacement. They have had discussions with 3 northeast teams about relocating their AHL team to Albany, serious discussions with two of the three, and has actually sent a proposal to one and hopes to have a letter of intent signed within the next day or so. No announcement will be made by them, that is up to the team owner.

by rats_fan on Feb 10, 2010 7:06 PM EST reply actions  

I’d like to be hopeful, but let’s face it, this area does not have a good track record for minor league sports. The Astros low level farm team does ok, but that is about it. Conquest, Firebirds (twice), CD Islanders, Rats, A/C Yankees, Albany Choppers, Albany Attack, Albany Patroons. etc etc. all failed. Some, quicker than others. In the winter, this is a college hockey and Siena College basketball town. Honestly, in the cold winter months, people would rather stay in and watch a pro game on TV.

by SteveP212 on Feb 10, 2010 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re forgetting the SUNY Fucking Albany Great Danes (WOOOO!!!!!). And technically the Pats are still around, they play in the Armory.

To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!

by David Hanssen on Feb 10, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually Pats are gone, as is the CBA. They came back for 2 years then the CBA ended the season in Feb last year. They are supposed to have the “Albany Legends” of some unknown league play there starting in April. Good luck with that

by SteveP212 on Feb 10, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Billy Fuccillo??? 'Nuff said

I wouldnt buy a glass of water from him if I was dying of thirst. The guy is a pompous, drunken windbag.

by SteveP212 on Feb 10, 2010 7:10 PM EST reply actions  

I bought a car from him, very happy…..

by rats_fan on Feb 10, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s cool. Glad you made out ok with them. I almost bought a car from them a few years ago, but he was trying to add all these “extras” to the cost. $450 to etch the VIN number on the window. Tried to slip in the extended warranty, which I didnt need etc etc. I walked out. Glad you did ok…

by SteveP212 on Feb 10, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t forget mobbed up. He makes Joe Bruno look like a model citizen.

To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!

by David Hanssen on Feb 10, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Headline from the TU couple weeks ago (I lost track of how many people have sued him):

Fuccillo hit with class-action suit
Auto group allegedly sold fraudulent theft insurance policies

by SteveP212 on Feb 10, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

bq.(I lost track of how many people have sued him)

It’s gonna be HUUUUGE!!!

To fight the horde, sing and cry: Valhalla I am coming!

by David Hanssen on Feb 10, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

CD Isles

Ahh the good ‘ol days. My buddy and I went to at least 25-20 games a year. There were nights when They were lucky to break 1,000 people in the stands. Hitting Casey’s East after the game… Those were great times. Was there when the wings were in town and that ass clown Barry Melrose was coaching Adirondack and he sent his thugs Mainly Primeau, Krupke and Max Mittendorf after the isles. Actually, one isle in particular, Graham Townshend.

by SteveP212 on Feb 10, 2010 7:29 PM EST reply actions  

Maybe Balsille can move the Hamilton team there.

Change at Woodside for the old Shea Stadium station! Lets Go!

by Martys301 on Feb 10, 2010 10:17 PM EST reply actions  

local affiliation...

As I recall, the Rochester Americans are currently affiliated with the Florida Panthers. They used to share that affiliation with the Sabres, so the Rochester/Buffalo thing made sense, but now… The problem is, Florida doesn’t seem to be enough of a hockey hotbed to support an AHL team. I think (going off old info) that there are ECHL teams in Pensacola and south FLA (the Everblades?), I can’t look it up right now. I can understand if the ‘Canes want their guys close by for emergency call-ups and such, but it’s not unworkable to have an affiliate at a distance.

Of course I'm an expert, I've seen Slap Shot eleven times!

by mikb on Feb 11, 2010 1:02 PM EST reply actions  

It appears that only the Everblades remain in Florida as the ECHL goes. As Carolina goes, they wanted their AHL affiliate not only to be closer to Raleigh, but as a means to grow their fanbase throughout the Carolinas.

I’m just hoping that there will be minor league hockey in Albany next season, but it appears that any work on doing so may be put on hold. There’s also two NCAA D-I hockey programs in the area (Union College and RPI).

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=899138
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=899768

by Dougtone on Feb 11, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

but it’s not unworkable to have an affiliate at a distance.

On that note, it’s really interesting how these trends keep swinging from one end to the other. Within the last decade a common argument to have Northeast AHL affiliates — even for teams out West — was that they were closer to where a critical mass of scouts and other teams are, and teams liked being able to have plentiful (albeit not short) flights for emergency callups. There are advantages to both approaches, of course, but it seems the preference depends on the management in place.

Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.

by Dominik on Feb 12, 2010 3:07 AM EST up reply actions  

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Nino Niederreiter 25 RW 9/8/1992 205 6-2
Frans Nielsen 51 C 4/24/1984 184 6-0
Kyle Okposo 21 RW 4/16/1988 205 6-0
Jay Pandolfo 29 LW 12/27/1974 190 6-1
P.A. Parenteau 15 LW 3/24/1983 193 6-0
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Mark Streit 2 D 12/11/1977 197 6-0
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