Has the cap 'n trade market opened for Snow?
by Dominik on Feb 1, 2010 6:30 AM EST
in Big Picture Musings
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PrintWas yesterday's big "Tonight We're Gonna Trade Like it's Nine-teen-Ninety-two" party a one-time thing, or has it re-organized the landscape for what Garth Snow can do this spring and summer?
Snow has long stated the crucial assumption that he views his Islanders cap space as an asset. We have long fantasized around here that he might be able to put that asset to good use by lifting a solid player or two from the league's fat cats who have spent like kids in a candy store. But the fact is Snow can't leverage it if other GMs don't agree that it is, in fact, valuable. In other words, to acquire a high-paid player who is better than what the Islanders give up, Snow's trading partner has to agree that the cap room has a value on top of the player(s) he's getting back. The fewer of those GMs who exist, the harder it is for Snow to twist their self-inflicted knife.
There are a few other fun factors to consider which came up in email banter yesterday. (The managers for SBN hockey sites like Lighthouse Hockey have a discussion list where we fight over whose site is prettier coordinate logistics and such, and these points came up during yesterday's OMG! trade buzz.)
The first point came from Derek of Oilers site Copper & Blue:
Maybe today is the day that we can point to and say that hockey GMs have finally figured out how to manage player movement in a capped world?
(He concluded it with a jab at his own GM, but since I'm unethically posting snippets of semi-private correspondence, I'll stop there.)
I've long argued that while the cap has made trades more difficult (i.e. You do have to get out a calculator now instead of walk upstairs to the owner and say, "This guy plays like he's sniffing glue, I wanna ship him off."), it has not made them as impossible as some people make them out. Funny how the biggest whiners seem to be those who profit from trade rumors and the GMs who have historically itchy trader fingers, isn't it?
One problem is that the surprisingly escalating cap in the first few post-lockout years gave GMs a false sense that they can sign guys to stupid money now, and the cap space will open up later through the magic of annually growing hockey-related revenues. But now that we're four-plus years into this system and revenues are looking flat for this year, GMs may be suddenly forced into reconsidering the value of cap space and expiring contracts. Certainly that was in play during yesterday's trades between Brian Burke, Bob Murray and Darryl Sutter.
(Humorous aside: The Leafs traded 39 percent of their 2009-10 goal production yesterday! Goal-wise -- though hardly value-wise -- that'd be like taking Kyle Okposo, Josh Bailey, Frans Nielsen, Trent Hunter, Rob Schremp and Mark Streit out of Thursday's lineup.)
Cap Hit vs. Cash Outlay
Another interesting note came from Dirk of Predators site On The Forecheck:
I wonder when we'll see additional value realized for players who have a major difference between their cap hit and salary. For instance, a budget-conscious team (like Nashville) could acquire a high-cap, lower salary player from a cap-max team, to the benefit of both parties...
This thought may have been in play yesterday when Murray acquired ol' Jason Blake, whose frankly laughable long-term contract he signed with the Maple Leafs actually pays out less as it goes on. (Blake signed for five years, $20 million, but it was front-loaded, so the next two years pay out only $3 million per while the cap hit remains $4 million per.)
"What the hell is the difference?" you might ask. Well, for a cheap team that is not going to spend to the cap -- hello, Islanders -- real money going out matters, particularly if it allows you to take on more cap drain than you otherwise could afford.
Or as Earl Sleek of Battle of California -- who liked yesterday's exchange of salary on the bench for salary on the ice quite a bit -- pointed out via email (I'm really breaking all the laws of email correspondence here. Kids, don't try this at home.):
Basically, any team that doesn't intend on spending to the salary cap maximum should probably care more about cash payouts than cap math calculations -- I think [many] teams fall into that category. The only useful thing cap math is good for (in my mind) is to see whether you've exceeded the contrived maximum -- the cap ceiling.
And that gets to the other side of Garth Snow's payroll "asset" equation: Thanks largely to the Top Secret mode our franchise operates in and partly to the lack of provocative media covering it, we have no idea what GM Garth is allowed to spend in real dollars. But we can bet if there are options to take decent players who have bigger cap hits than salary left, it would make Wang smile.
The Unknowns This Snowy Holiday Shopping Season
Sure, we know via Snow's text answer to Larry Brooks that Snow is "authorized" to increase payroll (how people blew that up into traditional Brooks calculus to mean the Islanders would definitely add bodies for a playoff run is beyond me).
But other than that typically tight-lipped Snow response, we really don't know:
- What's Snow's payroll ceiling this year, or for any future year?
- What qualifications, if any, would Charles Wang require to authorize taking on someone else's big-money contract?
- How, if at all, has Wang's thinking on long-term money changed as the club's venue future has remained cloudy, its future revenues even cloudier?
- What time horizon are Snow and Wang working from, and to what extent are long-term, big-money extensions for first-round picks Kyle Okposo (2011-12), Josh Bailey (2011-12) and John Tavares (2012-13) factored into the future budget when those players' entry-level deals expire? (Of course they're in the projected budget; but do they take away from other expenses in those years, or are they assumed as part of the naturally escalating expenditure of a maturing rebuild?)
The simple and surest assumption for these questions is something very P.R.-ish like "Wang has authorized Snow to make smart, hockey-based personnel decisions as opportunities arise, as long as they mesh with the generally accepted principles of a low-budget team's rebuilding plan."
If so, would that mean he could have pulled off the Leafs deal for Dion Phaneuf? No. Phaneuf at $6.5 million per (cap rate through 2013-14) and of debatable value, would've been the Islanders' highest salary by over $2 million. Plus, he's a tool. Plus, the Islanders don't have the kind of middle-age expiring contracts and/or offense-goosers that Calgary needed to part with Frankenphaneuf.
Meanwhile, the Anaheim-Leafs trade doesn't apply at all because they were basically shuffling around their salary problems into areas where they served greater needs (Toronto needed goaltending, Anaheim had too much high-priced goaltending). The Islanders, as a team that at the moment is some $10-11 million short of next year's assumed floor, don't have any salary problems.
How this all unfolds, well, fans will probably be the last to know. But with the Isles' five-game losing streak pushing them to the bottom of the East bubble and the Olympic trade freeze coming shortly before the deadline, I know how many of us are (Still. Every day.) thinking: There are laborious contracts attached to good players out there to be had, it'd sure be nice if Garth could land one or two of 'em.
To that end, you know the drill. Feel free to compile your wish list here and play Garth "I don't do things like Burke" Snow. Just please don't say Ales freaking Kotalik.
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The Future
We all need to sit back and realize that this is only year 2 of a total organizational rebuild. We all got a little giddy a few weeks ago and with good reason when we saw a young team start to mature. But young teams also go into funks like we are in now. This is a very important off season for Garth and company. We have lots of expiring contracts such as Park, Jackman, Meyer, Weight, Tamby, Sim, Sutton and Biron who will most likely be traded. The only one I would like to see resigned is Sutton as he is the only physical pressence we now have and has really played well this season. We also have some restricted free agents such as Bergie, Schremp, Moulson, and McDonald. I beleive we will sign all of our restricted free agents as were not talking about breaking the bank. Now here is were Garth needs to go to work. I’ve watched every game this year and we’ve been saying it for too long now but this team needs to get TOUGHER. In my opinion after the season Garth should take a look at teams that are up against the cap such as Chicago, Phily and see if there are any deals that can be made. Also look at Mid-level free agents who are tough and can help this team now. I do not want to take on a over priced player who takes up cap room just because we can. Will Matt Martin be ready next year. How about JJ. These are all questions that need to be answered. Also a top 5 pick would only help. I do expect and hope to see lots of new faces next year. I know being patient is not easy believe me, I ’ve been a fan of this team since they came into the league and I have seen the glory days ( I was in the Coliseum when Bobby N scored ) and would love nothing more than to have a chance to do it again. The future is looking brighter but we still have a ways to go.
Tambellini is also an RFA as is Kohn, BTW. It’s unlikely that there is any market for Meyer or Jackman. Not sure about Park. Biron will be traded. As to Weight, Tambellini, Sutton, and Sim, it will depend on what, if amything is being offered. As to RFAs, it isn’t just a function of their cost, but also of their value to the team. Apart from Tambellini, who seems to be in disfavor, they all seem to have proven themselves in varying degrees and should be re-signed—especially Moulson.
As to FAs, I am hopeful that Garth will draft Swiss PF Nino Niederreiter along with a big physical defenseman at LA. Neither would likely be ready, however, until at least the following year. i suspect also that injuries to De Haan and Hamonic mean that they will not be joining the team next year either. This leaves the team with some holes to fill. On offense, I would go for perhaps two forwards with physicality and a scoring touch who will not break the bank. Possibilities include Ponikarovsky, Torres, and Nystrom. Defense is more pressing. Meyer is unlikely to return and Sutton may have been traded at the deadline. Gervais may also go in a trade. Martinek and Witt will be in the last year of their contracts. Martinek still has game, but Garth would be foolish to count on him for an entire season. Unless Witt shows something more when he comes back from IR, he is really just taking up roster space and will see minimal TOI. That leaves Streit, Hillen, Mac, and Kohn as NHL-ready defenders and only the first two can reasonably be considered top four material. At minimum, Garth will need to sign two FA defenders. If Sutton is not traded, he could be one of them. Hillen might make an interesting trading asset to, say, Chicago for Cam Barker.
Now here is were Garth needs to go to work. I’ve watched every game this year and we’ve been saying it for too long now but this team needs to get TOUGHER.
On the blueline, specifically, in my book. It’s like two upgrades in one.
By the way, I say this to everyone who was around and conscious “back in the day,” but stories and tales from the Bobby Ny days are always welcome around here.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
if we trade or at least do not resign players like Sim, Tambellini, and Jackman
it might not be out of line to get Poni, Torres, AND Nystrom. Be nice to put the Nystrom family back in the blue and orange and to bring back an Isle alum. And Poni is probably good for 40-50 points. Trading Hillen for Barker and signing a few FAs like Boynton and Lydman, for example, should also give us size and toughness on the blueline.
“But the fact is Snow can’t leverage it if other GMs don’t agree that it is, in fact, valuable.”
Bingo, and therein lies (one of) the Islanders’ problems. The cap hasn’t really stopped any team from spending whatever it likes except on the almost meaningless margins. One reason is that it goes up every year. Another is that GMs (except for Philly’s) have figured out how to game the system by manipulating the cap hit by just adding years to the contract that won’t be played out.
Snow will be left over-paying for middling FAs this summer just to reach the league minimum.
Hillen for Barker would be an example of a leveraged trade that might work
other players can see that the Isles are getting better and will continue to improve as they boys mature. If there is some resolution on Lighthouse before July 1, you might be pleasantly surprised as to who would be willing to come here.
I would bet a lot of money that Chicago would never, ever do that trade. And if they did, the GM should be immediately fired.
why not?
they need cap space, Barker is one of the prime candidates to move, and they would be getting back a very talented defenseman for a fraction of what Barker costs. The GM is Bowman Jr and he’d probably get an “atta boy” from dad.
His absolute ceiling is a 4 in a perfect world, and much more likely 5-6 or out of the league. He’s under-sized. He has looked alright from time to time on the Islanders only because everyone else on the blueline aside from Streit is pretty damn bad. How many minutes do you seriously think Hillen would get on the Hawks? Would he even make the team, let alone play on the PP?
Obviously, Barker for Hillen would be a dream for the Isles. Former 3rd overall pick, good size, young, scored 40 pts last year. Come on, it’s not happening — most GMs are not nearly that stupid (there are only so many Milburys and Sathers that come along).
many commentators in the league disagree
I watch games on NHL.COM and usually get the other team’s broadcast. It is hard to remember a broadcast in which they did NOT praise him to the heavens. I might have thought of him as a three or four before this year—-maybe even a five or six. He has emerged as far more and is sure to get better. Were I Garth, I would not make an even up trade involving him and Sopel, Hjallmarson, or Hendry…so the answer to your question is yes, he absolutely would have a spot on their team.
not predicting it WILL happen
just saying that its the kind of trade where Garth could use cap room as leverage and that I could see it benefitting both teams.
Chicago does not need cap space right now. They can afford to wait until summer, so they’re unlikely to make their blueline thinner in the middle of what may be their best shot at a deep run. (Actually some rumors hold that they even prefer to add defense down the stretch, but whatever…rumors.)
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
ummm... no?
That would be a loser trade. The Isles would be giving up a guy playing great on a mediocre team, for a guy playing mediocre on a great team. Hillen averages over 20 minutes per game and has almost the same numbers as Barker who has been averaging 13 minutes per game, which makes his the Hawks’ number five defenseman. Also, Chicago has a high powered offense and Barker’s numbers may even be a little inflated. Besides, even if snow did this trade, you’d still have the same problems on the blue line. It would be Streit, Barker, and maybe Sutton as the performing defensemen instead of Streit, Hillen, and Sutton. Not to mention that this trade wouldn’t happen, if at all, until the draft because of Hillen’s broken face. So, yeah, numbers wise it may work out, but practically speaking it’s not that great an idea. How about something like Barker for a second rounder and Tamby? Just as unrealistic, but it solve the Isles Tambellini problem and gives the Hawks cap relief.
If Barker is playing fewer minutes, how can his numbers be inflated?
arguably if he was playing more minutes on the Isles, he would have higher stats. Hillen is a talented puck mover, but the Isles need someone bigger and more physical. Barker is bigger, more physical, and has a mean shot. He needs to improve his decisionmaking and his defensive zone coverage—all of which should be helped by pairing him with Mark.. Hillen should be ready by the end of March and this trade would happen in the offseason, just prior to or just after the draft and before FA begins. The Isles would have to sign several other defensive FAs in addition as I have said.
I don’t see what would be so wrong with signing a veterean, stay at home, D man in the offseason. It is obvious that they need something to help and Witt, looking forward without consideration of the past, is not the guy that they need in that role. The game is much to fast for him right now. If they could find one shut down d man in the off-season to replace Witt/Gervais/Meyer (take your pick) it could help this team by leaps and bounds. The PP quarterback is not necessary because we have Streit (who saw better production last year and is capable of doing it again) DeHaan, and possible Donovan in the wings. Snow knows that toughness in an issue or he wouldn’t have wasted everyone’s time with Gillies (which I have not seen him play yet). However it would help our forwards a little if they could take a little off the backcheck and prepare for a breakout provided by a shut down d man. In particular it would stand to reason that Tavares would benefit greatly from this because it could open the ice up a little. Right now he seems to have his own escort everywhere he goes and that is because the Isles need him to provide support on the backcheck rather than hover around the blue line as much as he needs to do to be successful.
IMO it is obvious how much this team benefits from leadership of a vet (Doug Weight) but imagine that you had a vet like that on the blue line.
I guess we can all hope that Philly signs another over the peak d man and is forced to fork over one of their d men but I would love to see the Isles make a deal with St. Louis. I know that is improbable but they are loaded with D…
Will work...for playoffs.
a trade like the Hillen-Barker deal I mentioned
and a few FA signings should put the Isles in good stead. We are stuck with Witt through the end of next season, so we will just have to hope he improves. We also have to worry about Martinek’s health and De Haan and Hamonic’s injuries probably mean that they will both spend another year in juniors.
Great Post
This gets at in much more detail what I posted here a few months back: http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2009/11/30/1178538/islanders-mission-a-rebuild-by-any#26362449
This is the sort of thing that happens in the NBA, where a highly regarded young player gets moved in a deal loaded on both sides with all sorts of big names and bad contracts.
Having the cap wiggle-room, the Islanders also become an excellent middleman for three team trades. We take a cap hit here or there for one team or another, and land a couple of picks for facilitating the deal.
I think having two goalies he can dangle (and I really think Snow should try to move both Roloson and Biron) and all this cap space, should really allow Snow to position us to be a contender in two years. Take on a couple of contracts that might expire next year.
And keep it in the tank fellas! Don’t look now, here comes Cam Fowler!
Cheers
I just want to give a shout-out for successfully linking to a comment from an older thread. Synergy baby.
The cap-space-as-asset thing intrigues me. As AP77 said, teams haven’t really treated it that way yet. And while Sutter and Burke are their own rare particular breed of bird, it’s possible yesterday’s moves combined with flat revenues finally gets the ball rolling. On top of Snow’s interest, a little NBA-style swapping of “expiring bodies contracts” would be good theater.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
The Big thing about trading cap space
Is that personally, I don’t want to see that the Islanders lost money again because they traded for an average overpriced player and it was enough to knock them from the black to the red.
Obviously we mentioned that Snow has basically been given the green light to make deals, but I think Wang would still have some say so when it comes to big contracts and the finances. Unless of course the Islanders are somehow making a ton of money which would be surprising.
"So basically, the Stats make no sense whatsoever."
you think Philly
would trade Riley Cote (seems to be hanging around the press box these days) for Sim or Park. Cote is considered a heavy-weight, doesnt hurt you as much as a Gillies would on ice talent. Plus he still has 1yr left on contract for min 500,ooo it also buys Matt Martin 1yr of gaining his Man adult strength
…and Nick Boynton may not be the right answer as much as it is a right now answer. Botta said that the Ducks have placed him on waivers and Snow has placed Gillies on waivers. Sure he is big and he has been with a couple of building teams but can he keep his cool long enough to withstand the building process on the Island? There was an article about some “disciplanary” issues. Seeing how Florida and the Islanders are somewhat similar regarding their standings the question has to be how will he feel about coming to NY? Is this going to Escape from NY or the niche he has been so desparately needing?
Will work...for playoffs.
Because it is filmed in front of a live studio audience?
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Could you picture Snow as Redd Foxx? Not that I endorse this but that would be hysterical. Especially when dealing with the press.
Will work...for playoffs.
I would love it
I’m picturing NHL films documentary footage behind the scenes at the draft: Garth Foxx: “You wha? You wanna give me wha for what? This Witt right here, this is a fine piece. A classic, won’t let ya down.”
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Boynton and Lydman were two names I came up with of defensemen who have some size and ability who will be available this summer
here is a list of all defensemen available this summer (assuming their clubs do not re-sign them first). If you can find two more likely candidates, go for it:
Nicklas Lidstrom 39 DET $7,450,000
Scott Niedermayer 35 ANA $6,000,000
Sergei Gonchar 35 PIT $5,500,000
Kim Johnsson 33 MIN $5,300,000
Pavel Kubina 32 ATL $5,000,000
Paul Martin 28 NJ $4,500,000
Brett Clark 32 COL $3,500,000
Marek Zidlicky 32 MIN $3,500,000
Andy Sutton 34 NYI $3,500,000
Mike Rathje 35 PHI $3,500,000
Rob Blake 39 SJ $3,500,000
Willie Mitchell 32 VAN $3,500,000
Mike Van Ryn 30 TOR $3,350,000
Derek Morris 30 BOS $3,300,000
Ruslan Salei 34 COL $3,275,000
Henrik Tallinder 30 BUF $3,250,000
Adam Foote 37 COL $3,250,000
Anton Volchenkov 27 OTT $3,200,000
Toni Lydman 31 BUF $3,150,000
Randy Jones 27 LA $3,000,000
Joe Corvo 32 CAR $2,750,000
Jason Smith 35 OTT $2,600,000
Aaron Ward 36 CAR $2,500,000
Dan Hamhuis 26 NASH $2,500,000
Brian Pothier 32 WASH $2,500,000
Rostislav Klesla 27 CBJ $2,250,000
Dennis Seidenberg 27 FLA $2,250,000
Adrian Aucoin 35 PHO $2,250,000
Mark Eaton 32 PIT $2,000,000
Shaone Morrisonn 26 WASH $1,975,000
Brad Lukowich 32 VAN $1,800,000
Jordan Leopold 28 FLA $1,750,000
Niclas Wallin 34 CAR $1,725,000
Garnet Exelby 27 TOR $1,725,000
Paul Mara 29 MON $1,675,000
Andrew Ference 30 BOS $1,625,000
Mathieu Schneider 40 VAN $1,550,000
Nick Boynton 30 ANA $1,500,000
Stephane Robidas 32 DAL $1,500,000
Zbynek Michalek 26 PHO $1,500,000
Lukas Krajicek 26 TB $1,475,000
Carlo Colaiacovo 26 STL $1,400,000
Milan Jurcina 26 WASH $1,375,000
Andreas Lilja 33 DET $1,250,000
Sean O’Donnell 37 LA $1,250,000
Nathan Paetsch 26 BUF $1,050,000
Jonas Frogren 28 TOR $900,000
Brett Lebda 27 DET $850,000
Jay McKee 31 PIT $800,000
Mike Weaver 31 STL $800,000
Mike Mottau 31 NJ $775,000
Shane Hnidy 33 MIN $750,000
Francis Bouillon 33 NASH $750,000
David Hale 28 TB $725,000
Jason Strudwick 33 EDM $700,000
Tyler Sloan 28 WASH $640,000
Andrew Hutchinson 29 DAL $600,000
Freddy Meyer 28 NYI $600,000
Kurtis Foster 27 TB $600,000
Sheldon Brookbank 28 ANA $550,000
Dan Jancevski 28 DAL $550,000
Garrett Stafford 29 DAL $550,000
John Scott 26 MIN $550,000
Aaron Johnson 26 CHI $540,000
Tim Conboy 27 CAR $500,000
Jay Harrison 26 CAR $500,000
Jay Leach 29 NJ $500,000
Cory Murphy 31 NJ $500,000
Matt Carkner 28 OTT $500,000
Lawrence Nycholat 30 VAN $500,000
Doug Janik 29 DET TBA
Alex Henry 29 MON TBA
Joe Callahan 26 SJ TBA
Brendan Bell 26 STL TBA
Mike Lundin 24 TB TBA
If the first three names on that list don’t retire a the end of the season, they will very soon…
Move to Flushing, Queens, Charles Wang!! Get away from the insane politics of Nassua
not that it matters
I would not see them wanting to come here or Garth wanting them. I suspect that Gonchar MIGHT be given another contract by Pitt.
Wasn’t Robidas just resigned to a contract that takes him into the 2013 season? I would take him in a heartbeat but he is locked up.
Will work...for playoffs.
by metalcoconut on Feb 1, 2010 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
not sure when this list was put together
it is certainly possible that one or more players on it have already been re-signed. A fair number surely will be re-signed before July 1.
If I Had To Choose
I would go with 2 of Paul Martin, Anton Volchenkov and Zbynek Michalek – as they are younger than Lydman and Boynton and would be in their prime as the Isles come to strongly contend.
Martin and Volcenkov almost certainly will be re-signed by their teams and it’s hard to believe they would come here anyway. Volcenkov is really more the guy we need, but he won’t come here. Don’t know Michalek. We just need a couple of guys for two to three years until our prospects mature.
Michalek faces the highest quality of competition with the worst teammates and is +3. He is 26 and coming into his prime as a big minutes, shut down defenseman. Basically, he is a stud who plays in a small market – one that is probably less likely to be re-sign him than Martin in NJ, Volchenkov in OTT and Lydman in BUF.
OOOooooooo Boynton on Waivers!!!
Garth should definitly make the move to pick this guy up. Good protection there for Tavares.
Not that I think Boynton is gonna transform the D or make the Isles a powerhouse. They do need a guy who’s gonna fuck anyone up for taking liberties on Tavares. I would do it.
Agreed. Cheap, no-brainer move. He brings the crazy, too.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
that would be excellent!
we NEED a big physical defender…heck we just need another defender…and it would give us the inside track on signing him this summer.
That would be the kind of info that would make sense for the NHL to make readily available, so: no.
But Article 13 in the CBA says after Nov. 1 it’s based on current-season points percentage, so the Islanders should be fifth behind Carolina, CBJ, Toronto, Edmonton.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Boynton is a Boston guy too, right?
Im also surprised Mike Mottau is on such a low contract.. you could up that and still not break the bank.
Claude LaPointe didn't make as good a pun, sadly.
by LaChance at Glory on Feb 1, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
I believe the fact that he is a Boston guy (on its own merit) should be the sole reason that the Islanders are going after him. Soon he will be an Islander with an 8 year contract…here we go…
Will work...for playoffs.
by metalcoconut on Feb 1, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
I believe the fact that he is a Boston guy (on its own merit) should be the sole reason…
Haha, it sure feels like that some times…
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
WHY are we suddenly.....
,,,,,even TALKING about trading Jack Hillen, who we were all SO high on not even 3 weeks ago? I realize loyalty is a very rare commodity in sports, but it was one the Islanders – and their fans? – used to value…..
its because he is good that we might be able to leverage a trade for someone like Barker
I like him, but we need some talented young BIG AND PHYSICAL defenders.
WHY are we suddenly….. ,,,,,even TALKING about trading Jack Hillen
Im definitely not!!! I think Jacks great!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 2, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
let me get this straght 10-11 season defencemen
streit martinek
hillen A-mac
Gervais witt
wow not very sexy but it serves its purpose hopefully buys enough time for Hamonic, Kohn and Katic to catchup. I hope no-one is talking about trading Hillen some are quoting him not being the best skater on the team but the league
assuming Sutton goes at the deadline, Meyer isn't re-signed, and there are no other trades or FA signings...
yes, you are correct. If one or more were to get injured. Kohn, Flood, and Westgarth would be back ups. Oh, I forgot, Martinek is one of our guys. I meant to say WHEN one of them gets injured..
I think Hamonic if fully recovered and does well enough makes it out of camp...
also Mark Katic has a good shot for 10-11 as well.
I don't expect either Hamonic or de Haan until late next year, earliest
Jumping from juniors to the NHL is just too rare, and not often well-advised. I’m excited about them both, but patience rules.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
and I have to believe that their injuries have set the clock back
whereas they might have reasonably either made the team next September or at least joined the BST, now I would have to think that their progress is at least unclear for the moment.
Islander Games in HD (Finally) Available on Verizon Fios
If u ask me this is almost as big of a signing as any FA Snow nabs before the deadline!
BC i agree with u totally
but the upsetting thing is the only reason Witt and Martinke r taking up spots is cause we have 4.5 mill investment. But I wouldnt mind grabbing the guy from Ottawa Vochenkov(sp) but lets not get in trouble again with tying up money we do have Hamonic and DeHaan coming, followed by Kessel and Kohn, followed by hpefully Donovan and ness good problems but being patient and timing is everything.
I’m still waiting to see what Chicago does with Buff and Eager for a power foward followed by what the do with Hammjolson and Barker
If Dom has heard different, I will stand corrected but
I do not see any of our guys in the system joining the team before 2011-12. Hamonic and De Haan might have but for their injuries. It may be as well, because I would not want to rush them into NHL action before they are ready. We NEED a minimum of two big physical defenders for next year. If Sutton is not traded, he might be one of them. I would love to grab Volcenkov as well, but I would not guess that the Island would be his first choice.
Snow-Wang
Does anyone know how much lee-way Wang has given Snow? I mean does Wang want the cap space to stay as a profit margin or what?
The Isles should consider getting a name D man, and also keeping Sutton. Witt should be used as trade bait. I know, he won’t bring us riches, but he will bring us something, because his play is a liability. I would suggest dealing Biron, and keeping the steadiest goalie we have, Roloson. Let Rickie play a few games, but the bulk of the work for the rest of this season should go to Rolo. The team has showed it plays better in front of Rolo anyways. Let the team start fresh with DP as the started next season, and the guys in front of him will go through training with him and get to know each other better.
Freddy, Witt, Sim, and possibly Weight and Comeau should be considered tradeables.
Someone mentioned early that Hillen has a broken face. He actually has a broken jaw. We aren’t talking leather-face here. And if we do decide to trade him, I hope the Isles get better value than what Hillen could be.
Move to Flushing, Queens, Charles Wang!! Get away from the insane politics of Nassua
Can't trade Witt
No one would want him even if he didn’t have another year at $3 mil on his deal given how he is playing now. We are basically stuck with him until his deal ends next year barring some dramatic improvement in his play. No one is going to trade anything for Freddy either.
The injury to Hillen on top of that to Martinek may keep Garth from moving Sutton. The one sure move at the deadline is Biron. Weight, Sim, and Park are other possibilities as is Tambellini. It will really depend on what, if anything Garth is offered for these players.
Isles are down to 27 from 19 on TSN’s rankings
http://tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?ID=549
Move to Flushing, Queens, Charles Wang!! Get away from the insane politics of Nassua
Being opptomistic - and a little off-topic
BC’s future fourth center Anders Lee scored a hatrick last nite. Apperently tearing up the USHL
I am still hopeful that he will join the team for the 2012-13 season
by that time, everything else should have started to gel and this team should be a bonafide Cup contender. He could be this Islander team’s Butch Goring.
TSN confirms it
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=308648
Move to Flushing, Queens, Charles Wang!! Get away from the insane politics of Nassua
see my fanshot of the NYT Morning Skate
Gaborik will find what Iginla found: that Jokkinen is a scorer, not a playmaker. A line with those two would be just as disfunctional as the Olli-Iginla line was.
Anything will be an improvement for Gabby.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 2, 2010 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
agreed, now there’s 2 lines to deal with, see how the dev’s fell off when elias got hurt (and also early in the year), and the only time we win is when 2 lines are clicking too, most nhl teams can limit 1 line up and a night-to-night basis, but having to spread out your shutdown guys limits you…
and lets face it, the problem isn’t gaborik (i’ll never call him mary ann like BC because i simply respect his game too much) he’s put up his points and more often than not carries the team along with #30 — only problem he has is his fragile body
why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?
I respect him, too. He is having a great year, theres no question about that. But theres always that lingering worry about his health…
In a way (not considering the injury aspect) Gaborik is pulling a “Palffy on the Isles” this season- playing great, doing more than his share of the goalscoring, commendable personal stats, but he isnt really ‘pushing’ other guys to be better. Also like Palffy, you really cant blame him for it- one guy cant do everything! In a way it will be GOOD for the Rags if they arent on the same line most of the time… it certainly cant hurt.
In another comparison to the Palffy era, I think we are seeing in the Rangers what we could have seen in the Isles if the Ziggy teams only had a solid #1 goalie (who the GM didnt make cry or torture or trade away or whatever lol)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 2, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Another thing
Both Ziggy and Gaborik are of that shady mountain peasant Slovak stock…
/says the half-Czech in jest
In all seriousness though, very interesting comparison, all the way down to the GM making the goalie cry.
I don’t mind the Rangers getting Olli. Maybe it will even help the to another benign mid-teens finish. What bums me out is Sather getting out of another dumb contract.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
point made by NYT is that Olli will not help getting the puck to Gaborik
and I think they are right. They need an effective playmaker to compliment Gaborik and they do not have one. If Olli plays second line, what does Drury do? Play third? Pretty expensive third line C.
Courtesy CJ Johnson @ hockeyleaks.com
According to sources, management from LA and Atlanta were seen speaking tonight, further fuelling the rumours that Hockeyleaks.com confirmed last week that the Kings had considerable interest in acquiring Ilya Kovalchuk. Hockeyleaks.com has learned that early last week the Thrashers told the Kings that to get Kovalchuk they would require Jack Johnson, Wayne Simmonds, Colten Teubert, a 1st round pick, and one other pick/prosect. The Kings balked at the trade request, but the two sides continue to talk. As reported last week by THN.com, the Kings also have interest in Tampa Bay center Vincent Lecavalier should be hit the market.
Move to Flushing, Queens, Charles Wang!! Get away from the insane politics of Nassua
a deal with LA for Kovi would make the most sense
see also aforementioned Morning Skate….Vinny would have to approve any deal and Lawton denies any discussion of dealing Vinny.
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Islanders Schedule
Next 5 Games
@
St. Louis
|
Thu 02/16 | 8:00 PM EST |
|
Carolina
|
Sat 02/18 | 7:00 PM EST |
|
Ottawa
|
Mon 02/20 | 1:00 PM EST |
|
@
Buffalo
|
Tue 02/21 | 7:00 PM EST |
|
New York Rangers
|
Fri 02/24 | 7:00 PM EST |
Last 5 Games
|
@
Winnipeg
|
Tue 02/14 | W 3 - 1 |
|
Florida
|
Sun 02/12 | L 1 - 4 |
|
Los Angeles
|
Sat 02/11 | OT - W 2 - 1 |
|
Montreal
|
Thu 02/09 | L 2 - 4 |
|
@
Philadelphia
|
Tue 02/07 | SO - W 1 - 0 |
Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
New York Rangers
|
55 | 37 | 13 | 5 | 79 |
|
Philadelphia
|
56 | 31 | 18 | 7 | 69 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
56 | 32 | 19 | 5 | 69 |
|
New Jersey
|
56 | 32 | 20 | 4 | 68 |
|
New York Islanders
|
56 | 24 | 24 | 8 | 56 |
(updated 2.15.2012 at 8:59 AM EST)
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