Bridgeport and Prospect Roundup 12/7
by Mark D on Dec 7, 2010 11:50 AM EST
in Islanders in Diapers
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The story in Bridgeport continues to be the goaltending. Kevin Poulin is really starting to pull away from Nathan Lawson and Mikko Koskinen. At 1.98 GAA he's ninth in the AHL and is fifth in both Save Percentage and Shutouts. Poulin started the week strong for Bridgeport, putting on quite the display with a 40 save shutout against Norfolk on Sunday. David Ullstrom had a goal and an assist to put the game away for the SoundTigers.
On Friday Bridgeport played Springfield and lost 5-3 after taking a 2 goal lead in the first period. Rhett Rakhshani [Coliton, Landry] Jeremy Coliton [Rakhshani, Joshua Bailey] and Robin Figren [Haley, Marcinko] had the tallies for BP. Kosikinen took the loss with 25 saves on 30 shots. On Saturday Bridgeport defeated Providence 4-1 behind Lawson's 36 saves on 37 shots (second star) and Bailey's two goal (both assisted by Rakhshani) first star performance. Figren also added a goal for his team leading 9th goal. Mark Katic returned from injury for this game, and along with the return of Dylan Reese, should help BP in cutting down the amount of shots faced.
Natural Born Kirills
Kirill Petrov played 4 games this week, scoring a goal to put his cold streak to a bit of a rest. He has 24 GP, 5 G, 6 A, 11 points and a +2. I find a video from one of his games, he's #9 in white and takes a shootout chance at 5:45.
Kirill Kabanov only played two of four games this week for Lewiston. He didn't score any points and in his final game he took two bad penalties. He missed the final two games due to what Lewiston is saying is an injury issue.
WHL, OHL, NCAA and Europe
Nino Niederreiter is off to a good December following a 14 point in 14 games performance, he already has 3 goals and 2 assists in 3 games this month. That includes Friday's two goal performance and first star of the game.
The Wheat Kings are on a nine game winless streak and during those games David Toews only has 2 goals and an assist. He does make some appearances in these highlights for the Red Deer Rebels 5-2 win over the Wheat Kings. He is #9 in White.
The Oshawa Generals went 2-1 this week, with Tony DeHart posting 2 assists on the week and a +3. Calvin DeHaan didn't add any points and finished the week at +1. DeHaan was named to the WJC Team Canada, one of three returning players for the team. [Video of the OHL announcement including Isles prospect Cizikas]
Casey Cizikas continued on a tear with Mississauga who won another three straight games before dropping a surprising loss to the Guleph Storm. Cizikas notched a goal and an assist in all three wins, named first star twice and third star once. In the loss he only had an assist, on the season he has 35 Points (15 G, 20 A) in 24 games. [Highlights from December 2nd game,including Cizikas Goal & Assist]
Notre Dame played back to back games against Miami last weekend. In the first game they came back from two two goal deficits, as Anders Lee powered the way with 3 assists. That matched his season total for assists in one night and he was named 3rd star. Notre Dame lost the following night. Lee has 9 goals, 6 Assists, 15 points in 17 games.
Matt Donovan had an assist in two games this week for Denver. In 18 games he has 4 G, 8 A and 12 Points this season.
Brock Nelson did play both games for North Dakota this week, but did not get onto the score sheet. He now has 18 games played, 1 G, 4 A, 5 Points on the year.
The University of Wisconsin and Jason Clark played two games this week. Clark still has 1 assist on the season in 13 games.
Aaron Ness had a quiet week and did not add to his season total of 7 assists with Minnesota.
Corey Trivino played two games for Boston U, adding an assist for season totals of 13 GP, 2 G, 6 A, 8 Points.
Brian Day played one game this week with Colgate, posting a goal. He now has 7 G, 4 A, 11 Points in 13 Games.
UNH's Blake Kessel was held off the scoresheet this week. He has 15 GP, 2 G, 8 A, 10 points.
Lulea played 3 games this week, and Anders Nilsson started one of them. He posted a shutout while facing 30 shots to give Lulea their one win of the week. Lulea's other goalie Rautio struggled allowing 7 goals on 44 shots. [Highlights]
Cody Rosen didn't play any games this week, but apparently the local paper likes interviewing him. [Interview here]
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He’s a real Frosh playing on the 3rd line. That the school didn’t want him to play in the USHL last year (like Anders Lee) says a lot about his ability. Plus he was just named to Team USA’s WJC roster
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Not last year, I mean this year like Anders did last year.
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I've watched a bunch of games on NHL network
He hasn’t played bad at all. He’s physical, looks good on both ends. He’s just getting a lot of defensive time with the scoring coming from the top 2 lines.
There is a lighthouse at the end of the tunnel.
?
Hard to be disappointed with a kid who is good enough to get named by USA Hockey to the preliminary roster of the 2011 WJC. That is an honor.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 7, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Okposo scored 37 pts in 33 games as a freshman.
In his sophomore year, he scored 11 pts in 18 games and that was deemed insufficient development and he was pulled from the club by the Isles.
But, really: 5 pts in 18 games at any level is not good production.
More then willing to bet that Okposo and Moulson got more minutes then Nelson is getting.
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Perhaps so. I don’t know of a good site that tracks such things.
Sort of begs the question, though: why isn’t Nelson getting more minutes?
There’s a lot of older players on the team, so the case can be made that he was impressive enough that they opened up a spot for him.
I looked at the Minnesota team Okposo was on, and here’s some interesting numbers
Erik Johnson (1st Overall 2004) was a Frosh on the team and had 24 points in 44 games
Blake Wheeler (5th Overall 2004) was a Frosh in 05-06 (the previous season after one year in the USHL)and had 23 points in 39 games.
Nelson is a two way player, and they are saying that he is good enough defensively that he can play a defensive forward role on the 3rd line.
UND is also one of the best teams in the nation, ranking 5th in 2 polls and 4th in another.
One of the worries about Brock was that he wasn’t playing the best talent in the state when he was a HS Senior, but he seems to be holding his own from all reports.
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Forgot he was already at 18 games on the season.
http://www.fightingsioux.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?catid=9809&id=738608
You can view Highlights from all the UND games, I just found it. Unfortunately you have to pay to watch full games. I really wish I could give more solid info on how Nelson is doing, but I don’t watch the games.
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
No worries, these roundups are great, nobody could expect anything more.
Based just on available status, though, not a good year for Nelson and really makes him look questionable as a first rounder.
I think it's *way* too early
College is a different animal. He’s going from a high school league where the competition wasn’t grand (which was a wild card in evaluating how good his apparent raw materials would translate). He’s joining a team made of kids who have been playing better comp (whether in Canadian minor juniors or vs. college upperclassmen) for a while, and…well, he was a 30th overall pick, which is hardly “this kid is ready to star at the next level right now” territory. (If his curve were that clear, he’d have been rated and grabbed earlier.)
Finally, based on descriptions of his role, I’d highly doubt he’s getting much PP time if any. And the PP is where every scorer gooses his numbers.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
is it a deal breaker?
It doesn’t look promising, but he’s playing third-line minutes with a very strong program. Can he be expected to dominate the way a top-ten pick like Okposo did at Minnesota, or even how Moulson did at Colgate? If he were a first-liner or getting extensive PP time, I’d be more inclined to fret.
PS – I tried to click the link WebBard provided, and it locked up my browser. Which programming company logo was on the flash intro? NeuLion. I really wish I were making this up. Dratted Wang won’t even let us find out discouraging info on our prospects! He’s EVERYWHERE!
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
In response to you and Dom
I’m not calling him a bust (like a certain Mr. Tavares), I’m just saying that this year seems disappointing from a statistical standpoint — which seems to lend some credence to one of the criticisms of the draft, i.e., that Nelson was an overdraft at that slot.
Tavares a bust?
your jumping on the train way to early for that man. Not everyone is Crosby Ovi or Stamkos. Hes still gotta grow and doesnt have a true sniper on the team to complement his play making. Moulson scores goals in front of the net and PAP just doesnt score. Maybe JT is a bust, but we can’t say that just yet.
Constantly building for the future.
When it comes to player development, statistics are very very overrated. What is more important is how a player is developing their all around game. How many Hobey Baker winners have made an impact in the NHL outside of Paul Kariya and Chris Drury? Did Jason Krog? How about Junior Lessard? Or Marty Sertich? Maybe Kip Miller?
I go back to the Justin Mapletoft/Justin DiBennedetto argument. Both those guys put up monster numbers in juniors but didn’t translate well to the pro game. Statistics can be very enticing because we don’t see prospects much so stats are the major way we amateurs can track a players development. In reality though they show a small percentage of the whole picture.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 7, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
I entirely disagree that stats are overrated. They certainly don’t tell you everything, but they do tell you the most out of a lot of imperfect measurements.
Sure, some players have great numbers in juniors but can’t perform like that in the pros. Does that mean that junior stats are overrated? Absolutely not. Because you know how many players have poor numbers in juniors and then perform well in the pros? Almost none.
I think the other points about playing time, team make-up, etc, are fair. And, again, I’m not saying “OMG, Nelson is teh sux0r!!!”
But surely I can’t be the only one who thinks that 5 pts in 18 games is disappointing, can I?
Not really. Pretty much everyone knew going in that Nelson was headed for a upperclassmen heavy team where he would have to be basically superhuman to break the top 6. In the WCHA, unless you’re Don Lucia and the Gophers, you know you’re heading to a team that will rely on their vet guys. It’s a tough league and creates an environment that makes it hard for Frosh to succeed. Between Minny, Wisconsin, UMD, and Denver, NoDak has four other legit Frozen Four level competitors in league play and Bemidji State, Mankato, Colorado College and St. Cloud aren’t pushovers.
The traditional stats of goals, assists, points and +/- are entirely overrated, especially when discussing prospects. Its the hockey equvalent of saying Batting Average and Wins are the best way to determine the value of a baseball player when stats like OPS, VORP and WORP are far superior in determining their true value.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 7, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
No, that doesn’t make sense. In baseball, you’re talking batting average / wins vs. OPS, VORP, WORP, etc — that is, stats vs. better stats. Of course you’d take the latter.
Here, it is traditional hockey stats vs. ??? “Player development”? That’s not really something that can be measured.
Sure, I’d like GVT, Corsi and other advanced hockey measures, but they are not (as far as I know) available below the NHL level. So you use what you have.
But won't it be nice
to eventually have a forward who is trained to take defensive responsibility and check? He’s a monster for his age size wise…I’ll take it for now, and hopefully next year he can carry more size, get promoted to top 6 and carry along his defensive responsibility and be physical…maybe (we really wouldn’t know around here) this is exactly how to groom a guy. I think Webbard said that is how they do it in the SEL with the rookies taking on the D responsibilities against the bigger more seasoned men and they tend to have a nice presence after the transition (e.g. they are usually not a liability).
Sarcasm experience enhanced by Samsung (TM)
Different Situation
Okposo played on a team that was mostly underclassmen like him, Blake Wheeler and Erik Johnson. Nelson’s NoDak team is upperclassmen heavy so he won’t get as much playing time as Okposo did his freshman year.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 7, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Shit, even Moulson (who didn’t play major junior or even in the USHL) scored 23 pts in 33 games his freshman year of college.
Again a different situation with Moulson compared to Nelson. Moulson played in the ECAC, a much lower quality league that the WCHA, arguably the strongest in Division 1 (Although some Hockey East fans might beg to differ). He was also one of only three members of the Cornell team to be drafted by the NHL and the only one to make it to the big show. Compare that with the current Sioux team who have 10 of 14 forwards drafted. Moulson was on a team with less overall talent than the current NoDak roster so he would play more top line minutes. More minutes against inferior competition = a better stat line/
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 7, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Hooray for good news
Cizikas lighting it up!
Sarcasm experience enhanced by Samsung (TM)
by Keith Quinn on Dec 7, 2010 12:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I am starting to develop a warm feeling for this guy.
I wonder what that says about my hatred of Michael Vick?
NTIPC
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Dec 8, 2010 7:58 AM EST up reply actions
I can’t hate Vick, he led my fantasy team to the regular season championship
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Picked up Vick,
Orton and Hillis in one league that I already had Arian foster, Michael turner and maclin and miles Austin on.
Vick is a fantasy stud!
Sarcasm experience enhanced by Samsung (TM)
by Keith Quinn on Dec 9, 2010 9:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I want Blake Kessel to make it
…just so I can alternately refer to him as Kessel The Younger, Blake The Better, and The Greater Kessel.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
When he takes a Penalty Shot we can call it a Kessel Run. I bet he can get a shot off in less than 12 parcets too.
by Les Beaver on Dec 8, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
love it
“We’ll be sent to the Bodychecks of Kessel, smashed into who-knows-what!!”
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Really sad I didn’t think of this first!
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Jarkko Rautio!
I recognize that name from good o’ EHM ‘07. Of course, in the game HE was the Isles prospect. It’s hilarious the random prospects who are suddenly familiar to me thanks to Sports Interactive’s truly prodigious work to compile the entirely of the junior hockey world. As time goes on, of course, more and more of them are “made up” players generated by the game itself, but there are enough of the others around to make things entertaining. And it’s interesting, but a lot of their ratings turn out more-or-less accurate, though it’s funny when they’re wrong. Stamkos went in the sixth round to Boston in the game and never made the NHL, for example, while one of my key deadline acquisitions in 2019 was, of all guys, Jeff Tambellini. (He led my team with 12 playoff goals and we won the Cup.)
If the game is any indication, Edmonton has a steal with Milan Kytnar (127th overall in ’07). You heard that here first, kids.
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Stamkos went in the sixth round to Boston in the game and never made the NHL, for example, while one of my key deadline acquisitions in 2019 was, of all guys, Jeff Tambellini.
That’s awesome. Does the game differentiate for you which names are real and which aren’t? Or is it just a clear cut-off after a specific year when suddenly there are a bunch of Hockey McHockertons in the system?
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Without being able to load up the game (its on my dead computer) I think the cutoff is either 15 or 16 at the time the game was first published. I know Tavares was in the game system.
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Bad News
Wrong Rautio, this is David Rautio
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
heheheheh
The game does that too – the names are recycled from the database of current names, so you get a steady supply of new Sutters, Ruutus, etc. Usually the names match well with the country of origin, but there’s a Jose Sutter playing for the 2021 Maple Leafs right now… =P I have a whole set of screen shots I want to put up at my blog sometime, they’re quite funny.
Dom – the game actually has 14-year old prospects and bantam drafts (if you want to “work your way up” in the GM world by taking on a minor or major junior league, or even going overseas). It’s astounding the amount of work that must have gone into doing an entire world of players, and trying to accurately rate them. Tavares is one of the youngest real-worlders in the starting database, and not everyone else from his draft year made it – Hedman yes, Duchene not (IIRC). I don’t recall anyone eligible in 2009 or 10 being in the game, so no Nino or Reverend or Hamonic. And some of the generated players are recognizable as current stars recycled into the game: the height, weight, position, and hometowns are identical, so it’s possible to guess, sometimes with great accuracy. I have the Hasek regen, for example – same acrobatics, same Vezina trophies, even the same balky groin. True, eerie story: I traded up to get him fifth overall in 2010 (and may Nino be even half as incredible).
In my sim Tavs went first overall, like in real life, only to the Hurricanes. Sad to say, the faux Isles are really terrible…
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
The story in Bridgeport continues to be the goaltending. Kevin Poulin is really starting to pull away from Nathan Lawson and Mikko Koskinen. At 1.98 GAA he’s ninth in the AHL and is fifth in both Save Percentage and Shutouts. Poulin started the week strong for Bridgeport, putting on quite the display with a 40 save shutout against Norfolk on Sunday
Poulin…Poulin…Poulin…Poulin, PoulinPoulinPoulin!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
Hopefully the chant of “Poulie! Poulie!” will echo through the NVMC soon replacing the DP’s that were…
by IronIslander77 on Dec 7, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
This is why drafting 4 goaltenders or having organizational depth is a great idea. Out of Koskinen, Nilsson, Lawson and Poulin, Poulin would have been the lest likely to be the NHL player. You can look at it like the Islanders made a mistake by wasting picks on Koskinen and Nilsson or you can look at it like they took a chance with a depth pick and wound up with a 5th round steal in Poulin. When you don’t waste picks you have a tremendous luxury of making solid picks early and then wild gambles that can pay off brilliantly later on. I give Garth a plus on this one.
Don’t forget the Islanders also had Ridderwall in the system, and now have Snow’s pet project in Cody Rosen too.
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Rosen would seem like I was rubbing it in. Forgot about Ridderwall, is this maybe a position of strenght they may be dealing from in the future? My only fear is that as important as goaltending is, they don’t have the trade value commensurate with their value to the team.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens if Mikko and Poulin both make the NHL next year or both play good enough to start in the NHL.
I suspect that they’d rather only have one of them up in the NHL, and given Mikko’s injury history they will probably lean towards Poulin getting the chance next year.
When you talk about trading goalies, it’s still kind of rare. The Devils traded a lot of backup goalies, but they also had a system that made them look a lot better then they really were other then Dunham.
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
The problem I had with all of that is...
drafting Nilsson after Koskinen. That really didn’t make sense. Then they signed Biron and Roloson instead of giving either of their sub-nhl star goaltenders a chance to be the backup while RDP 3.0 readied for his comeback. Now they have more of a log jam than “organizational depth”. They lost both 2008-09 guys, have pushed 3 guys off the radar, and have created an unrealistic goalie rotation in the NHL.
The root to this evil… one goaltender… $4.5M… 15 years… Charles Wang!
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Exactly. The problem is that in the salary cap era we won’t even be able to extract value from these young goalies (like the Caps are now) because so much money iks wasted on DP.
It’s hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when it’s 10 years away.
by afrosupreme on Dec 8, 2010 7:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
There was no way that Nilsson or Koskinen were going to play in the NHL when they signed Biron for 1 year at almost league minimum and they had a 40 year old for two seasons. I’m more than happy that all of their goaltending prospects pan out since looking back when these guys were drafted they had a broken Rickey and nothing else. Did they over draft in that position? I probably wouldn’t have taken Koskinen when there were plenty of other necessary pieces available, but if either of them didn’t pan out we’d be back in the same position next year. This isn’t always about DiPi. You want him gone, but you don’t want a replacement, you can’t have it both ways.
No, the point is DiPi will never be gone. Not for 11 more years. And that contract will be a major impediment if this team ever has enough talent worth paying.
Big “if” when it comes to paying for the talent. As it stands now they can’t make it to the floor and will never pay to the ceiling. The “if” in terms of maxing out the cap is as wishful as DiPi becoming an All-Star again.
With the next CBA in a couple of years I wouldn’t be surprised if contracts beyond 1o years become voided anyway. THe owners got 24% roll-back last time around so I tend not to worry too much about 11 more years.
I don't know
A concession that large was secured only through a lockout last time, and I don’t think either side can afford that now.
To me, the DP issue is you have $4.5M of your budget — which is up to even $16M less than the cap ceiling — tied up in a goalie. If he’s not a world-beating goalie, that’s a discomfort. If he’s not at least an average goalie, it’s a damn handicap. And that’s why they need a pool of potentially good cheap goalies as insurance.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
I’m just thinking the NHL can re-write the CBA as they go along, like they did in the Kovalchuk case and determine that 17 years is too long. All they seem to need is an in-house arbiter to agree with them.
I agree with your point though, $4.5 mil for a depleted DP isn’t an asset to the team, but to me that’s all the more reason to find depth elsewhere. Having a few goalies to choose from is far better than having only an injured one for the foreseeable future.
I see those two cases as vastly different (if you're serious)
There has to be a limit to contract length. It’s not clear what that is, and the NHLPA likely intentionally kept it form being formally limited, but otherwise you could sign someone to a 100-year contract to thin out the cap hit. That loophole was always going to come to a head. It’s not even clear how truly upset the NHLPA was, since allowing it to remain took money out of the pockets of regular players via escrow and handed it to circumventing front-loaders like Ilya.
Whereas existing, approved and signed contracts are pretty clear on what can be done: Honor, buy out, or retire. Any change will have to be bargained like that 24-percent rollback was.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
I was only half serious, but seeing that a lot of rank and file are adversely affected by long contracts that circumvent the cap, it may not be such a hard sell from the owners to get the NHLPA to actually put a firm number of years into the CBA.
The strange thing is that the NHLP went hard for no limits to contract length and was considered one of the lone “wins” for the union in the last CBA. That “win” was still overturned by an arbiter that decided it circumvented the “spirit” clause. You’d think with a CBA that dense you would have captured this a little bit more transparently. The NHL also had a third category of contracts, registered, but not approved (I think Hossa and Pronger were in this category) and they chose to take a stand on Kovalchuk.
in truth
The problem isn’t with contract length. Richards signed for 12 years, for example. If a team and player want to stick together for that long, it’s not for the league necessarily to intervene.
The problem is a contract of any length with no reasonable expectation that it will be honored. Done with prior knowledge and intent, it’s no different from fraud. In effect, the team outwits the average annual salary applied to the cap, by paying the player extra millions that magically don’t count. That’s why Kovi’s contract was, in total, a circumvention.
In a different circumstance, the team wouldn’t dodge that hit, but just soften it by postponement. Example: I sign for 9 years, $45 mil, with a sliding scale starting at $10 million and declining steadily to $1 million. We both derive benefit from my early (presumably prime) seasons – I get big bank, the team gets a cap-friendly deal. As my skills and salary decline, I still get a benefit – I’m getting a salary as long as I’m around, or a significant portion if I’m bought out. The team gets a benefit – this $5 million at the end is probably a smaller percentage of the overall cap, maybe even significantly smaller. Further, they have me for very little actual money while I’m still somewhat productive.
That all goes out the window if I sign for 9 years at age 35+, knowing full well that I’m not going to last past 40. It cheats the league, hurts other players via the escrow, and ultimately even cheats the team I’m playing for, since they still pay me the lion’s share of actual dollars for diminishing play. Even with cap room, they may not be able to afford the money to keep someone else. (One assumes that they would be smart enough to look after their own interest and not let that happen. If so, pick up the phone, Lou’s holding with a 17-year-offer for you.)
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
It's a fun topic
I think one reason it wasn’t concretely answered is that it’s so hard to define, like you said. The line between “we’re both sacrificing and committing to each other” and “we both know wink-wink how this will end” is really blurry.
I was always shocked that the CBA declared that cap hits should be averaged rather than real reflections of salary each year. I figured it would be a lot more fun to build your roster that way — and more genuine: “Ilya, I’m going to pay you $10M this year because I can, but your salary is going to drop X amount in three years because I expect you to be worse and because I expect to owe these young guys more by then.” That way “tails” at the end of contracts are both realistic and not cap circumventers: “We’re paying him a pittance at age 42 because we think that’s what he’ll be worth, but we’d still like him around.”
I know they had reasons for going the Average Annual Value route, but I still don’t like it.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Its proving wink-wink and intention that I find so hard to believe. Will Kovalchuk play until 42, unlikely, yes, improbable yes, impossible no? The fact that salary decreases in time is also reasonable since you expect a players performance to decline, not as drastically as the salary decreased (then again the way he’s played this year, the Devils would be overpaying in years 15, 16 and 17 even at the reduced rate). When the arbitrator indicates that you weren’t trying to circumvent the cap then that also goes against the whole intention thing as well. Pronger signed for 7 years at 35+ and that was deemed legal because the Flyers didn’t understand the CBA and they’re on the hook for it even in retirement. So age seems like a consideration only in some circumstances.
My problem with the whole sordid affair is that the NHL allowed this to happen and then decided after the fact that it wasn’t legal. Where was the NHL to save us from 10 and 15 year deals? Why did they fail the Islanders when they needed them most?
When the arbitrator indicates that you weren’t trying to circumvent the cap then that also goes against the whole intention thing as well.
Agreed. That was like a “oh, no one really meant anything wrong here, it’s just wrong.”
Re: the NHL not stepping in before, I think they did by making announcements, first against these deals, then by saying they’d investigate them, and finally by going to arbitration. To me those were clear warnings: We don’t want to go to arbitration on this, but we will if you keep pushing the envelope to the absurd.
But for the Isles, there was nothing circumventing with the DP deal. With the flat salary the whole way through, the player does not gain by retiring early. I figured that was why they designed it that way.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Multiple goalies
Also why it’s pretty big to have guys in multiple places — college, junior, AHL, Europe. Don’t know if it helps much for trade chips when they’re all necessarily unproven, but when one suddenly shoots up (like Poulin did last year and may be continuing this year) you’ve got him in the bag.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Good to hear that the “centerpieces” of the young-Isles are doing well… and by that I mean deHaan, Nino, Poulin especially. And you can add Rhakshani and Bailey to that as well.
Really looking forward to Rhett...
If he keeps a solid pace at BPT, and the Comeau continues to underwhelm it could mean Blake doesn’t even make it through the trade deadline. Supposedly Kyle will be back in january… Katic is back from injury, so he becomes the next defensive call-up. maybe we get jurcina back in 2011… If streit comes back this year we could very well see a completely different team losing by February.
Moulson-Tavares-Okposo
Martin-Schremp-Parentau
Grabner-Nielsen-Rakhshani
Joensuu-Konopka-Sim
Streit-Macdonald
Hamonic-Wisniewski
Eaton-Jurcina
DiPietro/Poulin
Roloson goes to contender with goaltending issues
Comeau goes to team who needs his upside and is willing to part with second round pick.
Hunter is designated 25 game RW for another two years
Weight retires…
Bailey stays in BPT, starts in Uniondale next year.
Hillen is the 7th “D”, Gervais is the 8th “D”, Katic is the 9th…Only one of them is an Islander next year.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
quite sad
It’s quite sad when the only thing I look forward to with the Islanders every week is WebBard’s updates on the minors and prospects
Great job as usual
Oh, I suppose the rest of this place is just chopped liver, huh?
/storms out, kicks chair, cries in corner.
;)
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
by Dominik on Dec 7, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you're right Dom
You are chopped liver!!!!!!
The management (you and the enforcers) run a great site.
I'm no longer management
I’m now a special assistant with the ability to grow awesome beards out of indifference.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 7, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
I'm Irish
My protest beard just looks like I haven’t showered in a few days…drat!
Sarcasm experience enhanced by Samsung (TM)
Someone say Beard and Protest?
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Have you been growing that thing
since Milbury was hired?
Sarcasm experience enhanced by Samsung (TM)
I was thinking
Junior Sample with Gary Coleman’s hat… but my vision is bad.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
I think we might need to invest in a pair of scissors for Webbard.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 7, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
Actually..
now that I think for more than a nanosecond… he is quite Galafanakis-esque
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
The mother of all beards
The WebBeard.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
by Dominik on Dec 8, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll make sure none you ever get into another club in manhattan !!!
by Torch7 on Dec 7, 2010 9:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
LMAO
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 7, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Jason Gregoire going down is tough
I hate those out indefinites. Probably means season. He was doing rather good too. Maybe Brock will get more playing time with him and Hextall out.
There is a lighthouse at the end of the tunnel.
from Pelletier's Sunday blog
Kirill Kabanov is listed as day-to-day after a hit in Moncton shook him up
Somebody is not a details person. I am guessing its the MAINEiacs. Is this your garden variety upper or lower body injury or are they afraid of a concussion or something?
Good to lead with Poulin. He should see time on the Island later this year for sure and maybe next year he’s backing up DP with De Haan and Hamonic in front of him. Starting to think Couturier for our top pick. Him and Nino on the second line should make the offense start to hum. This team will be much better next year.
UND didn’t exactly give any details about Gregoire either, I had to dig up about his injury from the local newspapers UND Hockey blog.
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I say it again
Wang’s spies are EVERYWHERE! It’s the Islanders Mystery Injury! NeuLion software is designed to scrub out any mention of any sort of ache, pain, or hurt. So you get “Jason Gregoire is out with a [redacted].”
Out with a what? A knee? A concussion? A hottie from English Lit 205?
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
a hottie in Eng Lit ? maaaaayybe in the 100 level forced courses… not everyone is movie magic transformable, a la
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
The dumb hotties were popular in “Communications.”
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
I went to the wrong school
Lady engineers are definitely in it for the engineering. A hot nerdy lass is a high-value target to the far-more-numerous male nerds. My experience was that hot smart girls went to the education and psych departments, keeping the nerds safely at bay – unless they were interested in nerds themselves, in which case, A) they would have their pick of nerds unable to win over a lady nerd; or B) like a true lady nerd, they’d calculated that they could have their pick by becoming a desirable catch. Since both outcomes lead to having their pick of nerd, I therefore conclude that such interested ladies who go in for engineering are in it for the engineering, rather than the guy, because they’d have their pick of that type in any case.
The geeky girls (hot or otherwise) are a different, complicated story… It’s probably much simpler a story if you’re an NHL draft pick like Jason Gregiore, however. =D
And, not for nothing, but the placement of those coverall buttons? Didn’t anyone pay attention in editing? ::::forehead smack::::
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
I've never heard any different about engineering
Also a wasteland: Astronomy/physics programs. My poor astrophysicist friend had to resort to nabbing a Canadian :P
I am totally quiet around strangers and so went to a school with a heavy female majority, allowing my natural charm and mystery to do the flirting. When the balance is that lopsided, they have to approach you if you have a pulse. The numbers were on my side; it worked.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
by Dominik on Dec 8, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
good man
Gotta play to your strengths!
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Sarcasm was lost in my initial post, my degrees are in engineering and happen to work with Astrophysicists as well. So I too resorted to a Canadian wife, but that was for the Hab season tickets.
I think I got the sarcasm but mikb didn't originally
But then I messed it up by being sincere about Communications.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
yeah, I missed that
My sarcast-a-meter is working as well as my link-o-scope right now.
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
