Wisniewski traded to Montreal for 2nd round pick + conditional 5th round pick
As says above. Bye bye Wiz, hello picks.
over 1 year ago
OzzyFan
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Pretty good return on Snow’s investment. Basically trading a your 3rd rounder to Anaheim for Montreal’s 2nd rounder.
I guess this means Hamonic is staying up permanently and now I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if de Haan is brought into the fold after the WJC.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Don't forget the "conditional fifth"
We have no idea what the conditions are, after all! (Thinking positive.)
Lighthouse Hockey: On the IR with swollen knees from praying for the injuries to stop.
NHL.com says...
They get it if MTL makes the playoffs and Wiz plays in at least half those playoff games
The Conditional pick should be the 50th overall regardless of where the Habs finish.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Its better than a 2nd round pick.
Assuming MTL finishes in the middle of the pack, say 15th, their 2nd round pick would be the 46-??(depending on how many compensation picks there are that year). Their 2nd round pick will be 15 or more picks later.
I'm wrong :
a Compensatory Draft Selection shall automatically be granted to that Club, which Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical choice in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the date the Club loses such rights
It seems the pick gets inserted into the 2nd round in the numerical spot of the unsigned 1st round pick that they are being compensated for. I just assumed it was done the way baseball picks for lost free agents are done.
So we get their 2nd round pick + another late 2nd rounder if they make the playoffs and wiz plays in half the games?
Damn that sounds great if correct.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Not exactly
We get the 50th overall pick straight up, and we get their 5th round pick as well IF they make the playoffs and Wiz plays in half the games.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 1, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
the conditions were a room to stay in after the storm
for all the fans that traveled to Long island
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Dec 29, 2010 7:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
With 200 more replies to go...
… I’ve already read the best one. Thanks for the chuckle.
Let it snow! Let it snow! Let it sn... oh, wait a minute. OK, that's enough!
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Dec 29, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 1, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
Great trade by garth. And this opens up a slot at the 1st unit PP point.
Lately the 1st PP point unit has been wiz/nielsen, think hamonic will get the 1st pp unit time now? He has looked pretty impressive with his hard slapper, good skating, and good passing on the 2nd pp unit and at even strength thus far. It’s gotta be hamonic or a-mac getting that bump, and I’d go with hamonic right now, but we’ll see.
When it the earliest/latest de haan is callable up? I’m not sure mid-way through our nhl season while we are the 2nd worst team in the nhl would be the right time to bring him up and eat up a elc year. I wanna see what de haan’s got too, but if the ranger game is any evidence of the problems are d is going to be dealing with for part of the rest of the season, then keep de haan far away from that, especially if he is still sub-190lbs.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Our PP D
I don’t understand why Nielsen is on the D on our PP. I agree with moving up Hamonic and A-Mac since they seem to be able to at least hit the net, but who’s our QB? Wiz at least had that going for him, despite his serious inconsistency.
I think the Rangers game really was an apparition, back to back games and from all accounts horrific travel to get to Manhattan. The Isles are allowed to be tired last night IMHO.
de Haan can be called up at any time since he’s already signed his ELC. He’s just under the same 8 games before the contract begins restrictions that Nino was at the beginning of the season. After the 8 games he either has to stay or sent back to Oshawa. The only other options I can think of is Mark Katic gets a look or Dustin Kohn gets the put up or shut up ultimatum from the organization the rest of the way. I do not want to see Klementyev, Reese or Motherwell up and Wots is out of the question. DeHart is not NHL ready, so I doubt they sign him and bring him in., The fact is the Isles are going to have to figure out who takes on Wis’ 20 minutes a game, which isn’t an easy task.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Going to be interesting to see it play out. For all we know a forward may get a lot of wiz's pp time.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
The PP time is one thing and really not that big a deal
It’s replacing his top 4 minutes that will be interesting to watch. Replacing a 20 minute a game defenseman is not a simple task.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Particularly with the jokers the Islanders are already running out there — Hillen, Jurcina, Gervais.
Good god.
Out of those 3, I'd rather put Jurcina's big body on the ice for 20+ minutes.
Hillen has been a shell of his former self. Gervais is…well we know what he is.
Maybe going back to KO
Within the month
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
That I am not thrilled about
I want Kyle in his Natural PP spot
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
Agreed, me too
however, I’m sure some of the brain trust are looking at him as PP point man. Or maybe Weight is ready to come of IR?
/Ducks away from thrown objects
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
I would rather this
but don’t really think we have anyone viable…not that NOT trying someone there will develop anyone, but still, I think the best options are Amac and Hamonic, and we have to see if they can consistently handle an upgrade in the minutes.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
I liked the schremp look
and it was a hybrid type of position he played in juniors with great success. Not sure if it will translate to NHL level long term???
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
I've come around to that
I’d prefer a D-man too, but with none capable, why not. Or hey, maybe Rolston’s coming to make shots that go boom* like Wiz did.
*Boom may have been the glass, a shinguard, or the actual goal
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
*Boom...continued
Shattered sticks, the crashing of dreams, the collective smack of fan foreheads, or finally, hitting rock bottom.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
This, this is my
BOOMSTICK!
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Epic and confusing movie. lol
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope, effing, not!
KO would’ve had at least 20 goals, last season, if he wasn’t at the point, he belongs on the wing, and in front of the net, God damn it!
by KO21 on Dec 28, 2010 6:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I like Hamonic and A-mac together on the PP
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Dec 29, 2010 7:27 AM EST up reply actions
De Haan
left todays game at the WJC with an apparent leg injury. Not clear how long he’ll be out or how bad he’s hurt.
Don't expect to see De Haan
Was crushed into the boards in the second period today. Had to be helped off and into the locker room. Announcers thought it was his left knee. Official word a leg injury. He did not return. And isn’t expected against Norway tomorrow.
Wow, he is injured and he hasn’t even officially joined the Isles roster yet. What do the hockey Gods have against the Isles?
No pain, no palm; no thorns, no throne; no gall, no glory; no cross, no crown. -- William Penn
by metalcoconut on Dec 28, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
He got hurt last year too and got tweaked before the Rookie Blue & Orange game
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Let the sell off begin!!
Not that we have much to sell off.
This probbaly means Hamonic stays. Unfortunaltly it also leaves the blue line all that more barren. Unless this team plans on yanking a kid halffway through their junior season (generally considered bad form).
Wonder what this does to the teams cap space as well. We are already at the floor. An extension to Moulson has to be in the works right now. If not this team might be in trouble with the league.
The cap floor thing is interesting. Not sure we hit it now, but with doug weight's bonus clauses, who knows.
Moulson needs to be extended asap. Don’t want him getting to free agency, but if Moulson wants a raise from what he was asking for last year, we may have trouble in negotiations. Last year he wanted a $3mil/yr deal I believe and almost went to arbitration before agreeing to a 2.5~mil for 1yr deal. Moulson imo isn’t worth more then $3mil-$3.5mil/yr, and if he really thinks he’s worth $4mil/yr+ I might think about a sign and trade. I’d gladly sign him to a $3-$3.5mil/yr 6yr deal, but he isn’t worth a high/higher price tag if he is looking for it.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
is Rollie next
as much as he is needed if DP is injured, I don’t think we are much worse with Poulin and Lawson than we are with Rollie and DP if that is what happens.
not a knock on Rollie but it really isn’t the goaltending that is losing games, so if the goaltending is a little worse without him maybe we lose a few more games but if he could get a similr return it is worth it
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Dec 29, 2010 7:29 AM EST up reply actions
I will be pissed if they don't get something for Rollie
One of theose Playoff Teams that is in the market for a Goaltender (Caps, Bolts) will make a deal…and the islanders should send them Rollie….In return…probably best we’ll get is something similar to to what we got for Wiz I would think.
If so….the isles should take it. I would love to get some veteran NHL help but……
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
for Garth to move Roli
He would have to be REALLY confident about DP or he would have to get a REALLY good offer for Roli.
Why does it have to be a really good offer? We have lawson and if dp ever does get reinjured, there are a few goalies that need jobs.
1 more playoff run for rollie as a starter or backup I think would be a nice gift to him for his good play to us.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
at least a second rounder
or a blue chip prospect. After the fiasco of the 2008-09 season, Garth cannot risk trusting the team to AHL quality goalies again.
Sweet!
That’s early! Wonder if Web’s graph was instrumental? I was working on breaking that thing down, but I guess no rush now!
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Not crazy about Wiz
But don’t feel like this is a great trade for the Isles either for whatever reason.
What reason could that be? Garth bought low at a 3rd round pick and sold high for a 2nd + 5th rnder. What is not to like? He came in and helped the pp and then was traded.
Do you honestly prefer wiz finishing the season with us and helping the pp a bit instead of us getting a 2nd rounder for him? I honestly don’t see a logical downside here.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
I don’t really mind the second + 5th round haul, I guess, but this further exposes an already extremely awful defense corp. Wiz didn’t play very well, to be sure, but you could at least say that he was a legitimate NHL defenseman, even if only a #4 at best on a good team.
by AP77 on Dec 28, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Eh. It's not like this team was going anywhere with him. We are probably at best this year finishing 5-7th worst in the nhl if we play around or slightly above .500 hockey for the rest of the year.
And more ice time to see if anyone in the minor or if jurcina/hillen/gervais can step up. Not likely unless hillen finds the #4 d-man in him again, but we can see either way.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
I have to agree with OzzyFan
I think it was the best offer we would get
, Garth bought low and sold high
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Dec 29, 2010 7:32 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you. We got a 2nd rounder+ for him. In reality, it's as good as as middle 2nd or better.
Pretty good considering what we paid for him, what we got out of him on the pp, and what we turned him into through trade. Did anyone really think we could get a 1st for him? That’s the only complaint I could see of us not liking this trade. Defense lost from him gone is meh. He was barely playing #5~ even strength minutes under cap anyway, it’s the pp hole that is going to be hard to fill. HIllen/Gervais/Jurcina platoon will do ok/fine in that defensive role. We may miss his pp production a little, but he was so up and down in that role that we may not even miss him much.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
It's supposed to be a weak draft though
so a 2nd may not be much…and may not be much to combine with another 2nd to move into the 1st. But hey, on paper it’s good, and we got a 2nd and 5th for a guy with a high price tag who we only had for another 48 games.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Garth can always trade those picks for picks in the following years drafts, he entered last years draft with the 2nd most picks and only came out with a handful of picks.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Even a weak draft
will have gems. Just think about all those guys in the NHL that were late rounders and are now stars. If you threw them all in one draft it would have been called weak.
"We've made a final offer. We hope Ziggy Palffy will come to his senses. We have NO hope his agent will." - Mike Milbury
It's weak in a sense of top level talent
There’s no Tavares, Hedman, Duchene, Stammer or Doughty thats why it’s considered weak. however in terms of the depth its about on par with the past few drafts
Not really
It’s been compared with the ’99 draft in terms of the overall lack of talent.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
there are always diamonds in the rough
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Dec 29, 2010 7:33 AM EST up reply actions
Sell, Sell, Sell
Not crazy about this deal either. Somehow we need some proven vets on this team, but it also free’s up some more money to make a run at somebody in the offseason. Probably knew he wasn’t going to re-sign here anyway.
He would easily be looking and find his $3.5mil+/yr pricetag after this season elsewhere, so it was a smart move.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
I hate this argument
We’ve already got more than enough space to sign players and as was proven last year, nobody wants to sign here. If we finish 30th or 29th in the league, it’s going to be that much harder to sign someone. I’m glad we got what we got for him, but I still wish it happened later when the kids matured more and/or Streit returned (if that happens).
And I thought the whole point of "trading for a veteran" was to sign him long-term.
I think the Wizniewski experiment ended up being a giant failure just due to Streit’s absence. The guy came out like gangbusters in the first two weeks of the season just hitting, shooting, and scoring everything in his path, then after the stupid Avery incident he never was the same. Outside of leading the team in points, his +/- was atrocious and his defense seriously weak. The guy absolutely does not deserve $3.5m or Top 2 minutes like he was trying to prove.
To stick up for him a bit, he was forced into a #1 role on a team lacking anything near a serious NHL defense. That’s a recipe for failure for almost anyone except absolutely elite defenders.
I realize that
but, then again, was Streit an elite defender when we signed him in 2008? I think sometimes when you’re put up to the challenge like that, it’s a pleasant surprise when a player does exceed those expectations. However, that was not the case with Wiz.
He is a glorified PP good but not great PP QB that plays defense like a #5/#6 d-man.
This defaultly makes him a #4 or at best #3 d-man. Making him not warranted more then a $2mil-$3mil/yr salary at best. Let some other team deal with that negotiation problem waiting to happen. He’ll be looking for $3.5mil-$4mil/yr+ somewhere, and he’ll likely get the $3.5mil/yr from someone craving for pp help. Wiz thinks he is a #2 or even a #1 d-man, when reality says he’s an overall average to ok #3 or good #4.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
I agree with the two faced play
His play definitely went downhill at some point, not sure if it was after Avery or not. I do recall him laying some huge hits in the first few games and really showing us his wheels and cannon.
"We've made a final offer. We hope Ziggy Palffy will come to his senses. We have NO hope his agent will." - Mike Milbury
The guy just can't be a #1/2
It’s as simple as that, and since he’s going to be expecting a raise, might as well get rid of him now.
I was looking at Web's graph
and Wiz had significant Corsi valleys when compared with his amount of PP time. (More PP time=worse Corsi) which either means that he was gassed and less able to generate offense given high PP time, or that there are some diminishing returns once he cracks x amount of total ice time. (I have to look more in depth…was at work). Either way, it appears that the Ducks site was pretty accurate in their portrayal of Wiz at the time of the trade…except that they said he would be a fan favorite due to his hitting and defense of teammates. (???)
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Timing is curious
Have to think this is to “clear” budget space for someone else coming in. Or on the bright side…we get to watch more of Hillen and Gervais being pinned in their own end for 90 seconds at a time.
Thinking about it...
Maybe Rolston is the counter move here. The Isles need to take on salary somewhere to reach the floor now with Wis’ 3.25 mil cap hit coming off the books. Rolston has been assigned to Albany and will be on reentry soon. Half of the 5 mil in his salary would help a lot in reaching the floor.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Another roster spot to an old guy who can barely produce anymore. Great. I don't want him. Especially considering he is signed this and next year.
Only good thing he does is fill in the pp hole by wiz.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Or plays like an animal
and we get another 2nd rounder for him! Also makes a lot of sense as to why we’ve been carrying 7 D the last 3 games…We didn’t even see it coming…I wonder if the players did???
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
by Keith Quinn on Dec 28, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol. Good question.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Good point.
Let it snow! Let it snow! Let it sn... oh, wait a minute. OK, that's enough!
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Dec 29, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Also makes a lot of sense as to why we’ve been carrying 7 D the last 3 games…We didn’t even see it coming…I wonder if the players did??
I feel stupid for not seeing that myself. Roster freeze over, and boom.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
They ran diversion
with the goaltenders. Sneaky bastards…but I agree, given our track record and our play…I too felt stupid!
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
The salary is going to have to come from somewhere. I’d rather have Rolston at half the price and he either becomes a good Vet presence on this team for the next year and a half or he gets traded/waived/released if he isn’t playing well. With the Devils on the hook for half his salary this year and next, its worth the gamble.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
And you can only buyout Yashin and Witt once.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not advocating this
but if we decided to bring Yash back, does that void the buyout, or are you on the hook for that and a newly negotiated salary?
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Bring him over
for the playoff run??? Maybe make him work for bonuses exclusively? I think in our current situation, he could help (more than in the past), but he is yet another center. Maybe we can get a 2nd for him at the deadline?
Bwahahaha
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Well, when compared to Oleg Kvasha, Yashin was out of this world, but then again Kvasha made Steve Webb look good.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
Like if Comeau
gave less of a shit.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
by Keith Quinn on Dec 28, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Is that humanly possible?
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Seems far fetched right
But I’m a believer!
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
I was at ONE game
where Oleg Kvasha looked like a hockey god for about 20 seconds. I even remember the crowd cheering him on, “Oli, Oli, Oli, Oli!”
I guess every dog has his day.
by ilopan on Dec 28, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Still on the hook
No fair givebacks, or whatever the current playground term is.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
So, he's kinda like Wiz, only older?
I don’t know. Claim him for salary and just use him on the PP, and have six other D-men for regular shifts? Hmmm….
The only sucky part is that he’s signed through the following year. But it’s not like we’re gonna hit the cap ceiling anyway.
Let it snow! Let it snow! Let it sn... oh, wait a minute. OK, that's enough!
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Dec 29, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Not quite
He was waived today, has to report to Albany before he can be placed on reentry, so the earliest that will happen is tomorrow.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s the article from the Bergen Record explaining the specifics of what is happening waivers wise.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Again?
He along with Hamonic were banged up in last years WJC.
by Russel Ginart on Dec 28, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah and it doesn't look good
Hope to get an update soon from TSN
He left in the second period
and has not returned.
TSN annoncers sound worried
NTIPC
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Dec 28, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
Bruno and Hillen > Reese and what we currently know of Kohn/Katic. He’s a good depth dman.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Much prefer this to extending him for the same salary or a raise
Even without Streit, he was rarely used as a “#1” guy. He was given a boatload of PP time (4:56 per game), and at even-strength he was repeatedly used against the weakest opponents, yet still put up that ugly minus.
I’m sorry we didn’t get to see him on the PP next to Streit — that would have been a nice fit — but I fear that would have padded his offensive stats with PP points enough to make him think he deserved a raise, which he simply doesn’t.
Strange timing, but I guess if you want multiple picks you’ve got to give the buyer more than just a 2-month rental.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
by Dominik on Dec 28, 2010 5:16 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed. Great summary.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Agree for the most part.
He probably still would’ve been a Bottom 4 defender if Streit were healthy, but the pressure would’ve been off him for the most part with decreased minutes. Plus, Streit + Wiz would’ve formed a dynamite PP unit. It just goes to show how seriously damaging and lost this season is without Okposo or Streit.
Not sure I agree
The Islanders are paying Mark Eaton $2.5/m per — Mark Eaton! He’s terrible. Wiz can at least handle the puck somewhat capably.
The larger problem is: so what if you think Wiz would be overpaid? The Isles need to overpay to get anyone but waiver wire picks and draft choices to play here. Not sure that I see him being replaced with anyone better.
And if you say: “Ok, but we’ll replace him for cheaper” — I say: “cap floor.”
I like Eaton
Smart….shut down type….Limited Offensively and Not very physical but rarely makes glaring rrors and has the Playoff Pedigree….
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
Eaton is overpaid(worth $2mil or less), but a solid #4 guy.
Who would I prefer defensively? Obvioulsy Eaton. Does this wiz move make sense? Yes because we won’t resign him at his cost and at some point next year we will have streit, hamonic, a-mac, and likely de haan on the team. All of them are good puck moving d-men, making wiz’s loss not costly to meaningless (especially considering the picks we get in return). Sure it softens our pp this year, but wiz being gone doesn’t cause any major problems to a team that isn’t finishing better then 7th worst in the nhl and likely 1st/2nd/3rd worst.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
GVT doesn't count defense, like at all
So of course it credits a guy who compiles PP points.
Eaton has a general clue about defense. Wiz does on even-numbered minutes.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Eaton is Fine
More Consistent…you know what to expect and usually get it with Mark Eaton
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
Now, to be sure, almost all of Wiz’s positive GVT comes from offense. But it’s a cumulative stat, so Wiz’s offense is way more valuable than Eaton’s defensive contributions (which account for the entirety of his GVT as well).
Not when you throw in wiz's powerplay minutes and eaton's penalty kill minutes.
It takes the whole thing out of perspective.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
GVT tries to
But fails.
In any case, my argument here isn’t that they should pay Eaton $2.5 but not Wiz — my point is Eaton is a sunk cost, he’s locked up. Wiz is an expiring asset unless you want to pay him long-term at a rate that really doesn’t make sense considering his shoddy defense. If the Isles are ever going to spend more (and even if they’re not and have a smaller budget), they can’t lock into the deal Wiz probably thinks he’s worth.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
by Dominik on Dec 28, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Disagree
I think it does an admirable job; somewhat worse than Corsi, but certainly far better than straight +/-.
I guess it all depends on how much Wiz thinks he’s worth, doesn’t it? My point is that if they’re going to pay the Eatons of the world $2.5m, Wiz looks pretty good at $3.5m comparatively. Also depends on the term, of course.
Put it this way
When GVT ranks Wisniewski as the second-highest contributor to Islanders wins this season, then it has a serious hole when accounting for defensemen, particularly those who collect pretty points on the PP while actively sabotaging EV and PP every other shift.
I like GVT as a record of who had what kind of year in terms of recordable things, and it’s cool for forwards, but cases like Wiz expose its limitations in recording overall play. Wiz does not take tough assignments, and when he does it ends in error. No number of PP assists, fortunate shots from the point, or repeated shots into shinguards should cover that up, and certainly not his modest point total this year.
(I don’t mean to pile on the Wiz, I just think he is exactly as advertised, which is not worth the deal he was going to want. His decision-making is up to the standard I expect from a point-producing D-man.)
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Do you have the link to the Anaheim article
we should do a poll as to it’s accuracy in the Wiz’s billing.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Bunch of links
Contained in this post.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Finally read the links again
and nothing has changed. It give Garth credit for seeing this in only 40 games. Does Montreal trade him at the deadline since they are so much smarter and would be able to name that tune in only 20 games?
Don't think that works
I think you’re taking his relative ranking on the Islanders and using that to demean the entire system, which I think is not the right way to look at it. Regardless of what you think of Wiz’s defense, he was the leading or second leading scorer on the Islanders — where did you expect him to fall with respect to GVT?
Lidstrom leads his team in GVT — is that inaccurate? My point is that if you look at other teams, GVT is valuing their elite defenseman pretty much exactly where you would expect.
The fact that Wiz comes in second for the Isles shows you just how awful the Isles are this year, not that there is anything wrong with GVT.
Top D in GVT
It’s pretty much where I expect him to fall on GVT, because I think (and have read quite a bit) that it has issues with measuring defensemen. Watching him even on the powerplay where he’s had moments of success, I don’t believe he adds enough to be considered that valuable nor to compensate for his defensive woes.
GVT values elite defensemen — that’s exactly what I mean, that his play is not up to the standard I expect from defensemen like that. Most of those guys are great all-around defensemen, but some (like Marc-Andre Bergeron last year, rated nearly on level with Markov) are one-trick ponies.
Players who log mammoth PP time get extra points, and for some of those guys those figures obscure their warts.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
You're undervaluing offense
Is what I think it basically comes down to.
We had this discussion a few days ago, if I recall correctly. I tend to value offense, even if it’s coming from defenseman. It may be somewhat more opportunistic, but Mark Eaton, for example, will never put up numbers like Wiz.
If you don’t value offense as much from d-men, you’re probably not going to like a system like GVT. That doesn’t mean it has “issues” measuring d-men; you just don’t agree with the metrics they’re using.
The trouble is, there are no better metrics. And offense wins games.
Consider
If you don’t value offense as much from d-men, you’re probably not going to like a system like GVT. That doesn’t mean it has "issues" measuring d-men
Then maybe it is a team by team thing. In the case where a team is already “defensively challenged”, excessive amounts of offense from a d-man will very rarely win games (please don’t cite Potvin anyone) especially where the rest of the defense is extremely poor. So in our case, that is where we are. What was the Wiz’s GVT on Anaheim? Are there defensive defensemen that show up for teams that are very solid defensively? For instance, how does Chara rank on Boston as compared to Wiz, or Regehr (not this year) for Calgary?
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
I'm not so much undevaluing offense as undevaluing offensive opportunity
What I’m saying is that a guy like Wiz gets points from opportunities that are not afforded to others. Now, I think he was the best option to put on the PP, but GVT appears to reward him for offensive opportunities that other players do not get. I don’t see him as “a good player on a shitty team.” I see him as a player “getting the best offensive opportunities on a shitty team.”
I like GVT as a record of what happened, of “these are the figures a guy put up,” but it doesn’t tell me how much that guy will be missed if someone else assumes that PP role. If A-Mac gets steady PP time now, watch his GVT rise. Does that mean A-Mac is suddenly better, or that he’s been given a different role/opportunity?
Yeah, offense wins games; so does defense. I don’t think you’d rip Gervais/Hillen/Jurcina relentlessly if you didn’t believe that.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Yeah, I mean, I like defense. Hell, I play defense. But the numbers do indicate that offense is statistically more important. And that makes intuitive sense to me.
Now, as for Gervais/Hillen/Jurcina — those are guys that are objectively awful at everything and should not be in the NHL. I don’t think Wiz falls into that category.
And
Nobody would look at Wiz’s GVT and say: “Oh, look, an elite defenseman.”
His number screams: “Leading scorer on really shitty team.” Which is what he was.
Crap
answered my above question…expand if you want, but it’s long winded, so don’t feel like you have to!
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Yeah
The nice thing about GVT is that it breaks down its constituent parts. So Wiz gets a .2 in defensive GVT. Think that’s too generous? Fine. Let’s give him a -1 overall, which is by far the worst on the team (Mattau has a team worst -.5).
That gives him an overall GVT of 2.1. Three times more valuable than Mark Eaton. Still the highest ranking d-man. In between Tavares and Grabner for overall value.
MAB and Markov equal in this system, wow. Looks like this is something you can't use to compare defenseman with.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Until you learn anything at all about GVT, it will be really difficult to have a conversation with you about it.
I read about it, it still biases certain players based on where their toi is spent mostly and other things since it measures GOALS.
Just putting this out there:
Wiz:
TOIavg-23:14
PPTOIavg-4:56
SHTOIavg-1:34
+//- of -18
Goalie save age when on ice: .883
Offensive zone start %age: 45.2
21pts
Eaton:
TOIavg-19:53
PPTOIavg-0:30
SHTOIavg-3:04
+//- of -1
Goalie save age when on ice: .920
Offensive zone start %age: 38.5
2pts
Just going to put the blatant facts out there. I read on the gvt a bit and still think it’s bad to use to compare players with. You switch wiz’s and eaton’s pp and shorthanded time, and I guarantee you that eaton has a better gvt and wiz’s gvt is down. Would you not agree?
Main points. Wiz is barely a #5/#6 d-man defensively, wiz will produce #2 d-man points, thus making him a defaulto #3~ d-man. If the even strength +//- doesn’t scream out how bad wiz is defensively then I don’t know what does.
Eaton IS a #4 d-man. Obviously wiz can produce and is a better overall d-man, but by no means 5X’s as important to our team as eaton is like you state. Eaton is a $2mil/yr d-man and wiz is a $3mil/yr d-man. Is wiz better, yes. Is eaton bad, no. Just cause someone can’t produce offensively doesn’t make them a bad d-man or not important.
Defensively:
Eaton>Wiz
Offensively
Wiz>Eaton.
Does Eaton’s better defense make up for wiz’s better offense? No.
Is wiz loads better then Eaton? No, but wiz is better then eaton, but by not nearly as much overall as you or gvt suggests.
Usually the best way to determine how important a d-man or forward is to their team is to check their time on ice averages.
Wiz was overused by Gordon their, so it’s not fair to do that. But cap has been using them both correctly imo. And under cap, both aren’t very different for toi.
Ex why GVT isn’t good to use:
Volchenkov’s GVT rating on the devils has him less important then PL3, Mark Fayne, White, tedenby, and more.
Michalek’s GVT rating has him less important then Rupp, Engelland, Asham, Lovejoy, and more.
The day I believe that Michalek is less important to the penguins then Rupp or Engelland or Asham are is the day I will believe that this GVT is a useful analysis device. Until then, this system is BAD or even Terrible to compare defensive d-men to other players.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
This is all very wrong-headed, in my view. You can’t put Eaton on the PP because Eaton can’t do what Wiz does. And what Wiz does is more valuable than what Eaton does because scoring is more important than what #4/5 d-men do. That’s not opinion, it’s statistical fact.
And you’re actually discrediting your own point re: Michalek — you love TOI, right? Did you even glance at the TOI for those guys before you posted? Because Michalek plays way more than all of them.
We get it, you don’t like advanced stats. Move along.
Point is, GVT sucks when trying to compare defensive d-men to other nhl players,
and . Regardless of toi, GVT says those 3rd/4ht line players are more important then michalek and they are not, so GVT is a useless comparison stat for numerous reasons there. TOI was my comparison point, NOT GVT’s, so the GVT system can take that and shove it where the sun don’t shine. Not hurting my argument at all there, actually helping it.
And swapping Eaton and Wiz’s toi isn’t saying one can do each other’s job, but rather showing that the 2 aren’t as far apart overall importance wise as you’d think. You are right, Wiz is more important than eaton, but not 5X’s more important then eaton like you had claimed.
Why do you always try and play with words when in an argument? I am pretty sure you aren’t illiterate, so why misconstrue key argument points for your own argument’s sake instead of facing them head on?
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Actually, mea culpa, I did misread what you said — I thought you said that GVT had Michalek as more valuable than those guys, when in fact you said the opposite.
misunderstanding then.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Also
They didn’t arbitrarily sit around and decide: “Hey, you know, I think scoring is more important than defense in a lot of ways, so let’s weight that more.”
The system is set up the way it is because of sophisticated win/loss historical data that yielded a rough formula for what counts the most in terms of getting a win.
Defense is just as important as offense,
and if this is really a counterpoint to the whole Michalek<Rupp/Engelland/Asham/Lovejoy according to GVT, then it is a sad attempt at a rebuttle for that.
Is a Bouwmeester honestly not as important to a team as a good 1st line forward?
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
You misunderstand my point (although, as I said above, I did misread what you had previously said as well — so good company!).
Offense from d-men is great. Actually, the ability to play good defense and still contribute offensively is what separates the elite d-men from the rest.
So, GVT would rate a player like Bouwmeester very, very highly. Although not this season, since he’s not having a great year, but that’s beside the point. (Still fifth on the team in GVT though).
The point is that it is the fact that those d-men can contribute offense that makes them so valuable.
I agree with you mostly,
but when comparing wiz(a talented but highly likely 30-35pts 20/21min pp specialist d-man) to eaton, I do believe wiz is better overall, but not nearly as much as gvt says because of the fact of how shotty wiz is on d, how much eaton plays in his own zone compared to wiz, and other things I stated above. GVT says wiz is 5X’s important to the isles as eaton is and I disagree with that. Wiz is a defacto #3 d-man overall and eaton is a defacto and decent #4 shutdown d-man. Wiz is clearly more important, but not as much as you’d think. And the point I was trying to make is, throw anyone into wiz’s pp minutes and they will put up points. Obviously eaton would likely produce much less pp points, but he’d still rack a few up. But say a-mac was given wiz’s pp minutes, he’d easily be over 10assists right now.
Bouwmeester is unquestionably a top-tier shutdown d-man with some offensive abilities. Even not having a great offensive season, he should still be one of the highest ranked d-man in the league playing the overall game(especially on d) he does and the minutes he does. GVT clearly undervalues great shutdown d-men that play a lot of defensive zone hockey. Thus making even mediocre offensively producing, top level shutdown forwards undervalued too. Example: Dave Bolland. His talents were clearly seen when he played great as the Hawks shutdown center last year and in the playoffs. Logic would say that a great shutdown forward is worth as much as some of the best/better players on the hawks, but gvt says he isn’t even as important as eager, kopecky, fraser, or even barker. GVT has it’s flaws, and one of them is apparently undervaluing great heavily defensive/shutdown players.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
I think
That it is more that typical fans wildly overvalue so-called shutdown players.
That’s the benefit of statistical analysis. It can show you that what “everybody knows” is misguided.
No need to rehash the debate we had in another thread, but suffice it to say that I don’t really believe in “shutdown” players outside of maybe 5 super elite d-men, and even that I think is pushing it.
The reason that GVT doesn’t either is that the numbers say that offense is the most important component of winning.
Guess we have to disagree there.
GVT clearly undervalues Michalek and other great/top tier shutdown d-man that don’t produce much offensively.
GVT undervalues great shutdown centers that don’t produce much offensively. Even if Bolland is only a 30pt center, if he is able to agitate and shutdown the opponents best center so much that he minimally produces, then in my eyes he’s as important as your average 1st line forward. But GVT says he isn’t as good as most players on the team.
Agree to disagree, GVT clearly undervalues shutdown players in my eyes, so I just can’t rely on it for those purposes in comparisons.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
It might not be obvious, but..
This was an answer to AP77.
Numbers are unable to gauge the essence of defense. How do you put numbers on good positioning? How can you rate forcing opposing players to opt for a lower percentage solution?
Any good behaviorist will tell you to measure observable behavior
Not the absence of a behavior, because it is virtually impossible to do. It’s almost like saying, “How many times did Crosby not score tonight?” That is why it is easy to tell when a D man is terrible, but sometimes when they are actually “shutting someone down” it isn’t as obvious.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
GVT does undervalue defense
It uses relative +/- as the basis for the defensive portion. Therefore it gives defensive credit for offensive contributions that are already accounted for in the offensive portion of GVT. It makes good offensive players look better defensively than they are and poor offensive players look worse defensively by comparison.
Clearly, hockey needs its string theory
But maybe all the physicists don’t get along.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
totally tongue in cheek..
but we could also quit whackin off over spreadsheets and play some hockey. :>
Bruno = wtF + ROFLcopter/lulz
There. New advanced stat.
Haha
But have you seen the legs on this spreadsheet?
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Its a cumulative stat.
The fact that Markov is equal to MAB after being hurt for most of the season means he had as much contribution to their success in his short time as MAB in all his time.
Say what you will about MAB, Dom, but....
….he and Malakhov WERE reliable goal producers – had Wiz been more of one himself this trade might not have happened, I suspect…..what IS it, though, with Montreal being the destination for THREE simlar defensemen???
had Wiz been more of one himself this trade might not have happened, I suspect
Heh, I don’t know — after all, MAB himself was traded!
I agree that MAB was a goal producer. My issue is with overvaluing defensemen who produce on the PP but crap on the ice at even strength. It’s great, you need a working powerplay, but some times your powerplay works, sometimes it doesn’t. Guys who wander at even strength are a problem every game.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Agreed that this won’t really make the Isles any worse (that would be impossible).
But I worry about confidence of the young players. They are being thrown to the wolves even more (once again).
In theory yes
But those dingo’s ate our baby with Wiz watching…how bad can it get?
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
I worry about the whole thrown-to-the-wolves thing
I don’t know how much they should’ve looked up to Wiz, but he at least faced the music in the media game after game.
Back to the “get to the cap floor” thing: To me the only time you overpay to get to the floor is in short, one-off deals (one year on Weight or whatever greybeard, even two modest years on Eaton), but not on long-term deals for guys who aren’t core-worthy. By his talk and hints in Chicago and Anaheim, Wiz expected to be a better player than he is, and expected to be compensated accordingly.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
He wasn't what we were sold, nor were we what he expected...
I’m not gonna throw Wiz under the bus, but without Streit he was given too much to do with almost no support for a month. He’s been better since the D got healthier and the coaching change. Hey… it’s great for Jim, he gets to go chasing a cup instead of the first overall…
… but resigning him (from our perspective)… not such a bad deal. We are two years away from having a better core of defenders… and he would have helped as a 5-6/pp specialist… but not for more money…
If there are other deals today (WAIVER WIRE) that could soften the blow for me.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
by JPinVA on Dec 28, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Still a shitty Power Play with Wiz
Wiz’ PP at the Isles was still just better than 15% effective. One of the worst in the league. They can do just as well with a couple of the other guys instead.
DeHaan
Of course as soon as Wiz is traded, Dehaan hurts his knee in the WJC.
Do not know yet. He limped off the ice after he was run hard into the corner boards. Hopefully it is not serious.
The nhl.com write-up is funny
The 26-year-old Wisniewski is having a career offensive season for the Islanders, with his 21 points tying him for the team lead. He also has a team-best 18 assists.
Holy cow, this is exactly the kind of perspective that makes me not want to lock a guy like that up long-term for his (presumed) asking price.
Agent: “But he’s having a career offensive year!”
Me: “Exactly.”
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Oh, I think it was worth it
Almost a no-brainer. But for me the concern, as it was in Chicago and in Anaheim, was: “Is this guy going to be worth locking up at UFA rates?” To me the answer was increasingly no, so I’m pleased with the decision, even if I’d prefer it had come later on so that fewer games are played with an even thinner D corps.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
They also made the mistake in that write-up of stating that the ISLES had signed him this off-season. They traded for him…they did not sign him.
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
Habs will have another year of control for Wisniewski
Another year of arbitration
No, he's going to be a UFA this summer
No more arbitration.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
NHL.com
Clearly unaware of some of it’s small market product!
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
No mention of his team leading NEGATIVE?
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I would like to see them bring in some
Veteran SCORING!!!! A Scoring POWER FORWARD with some playoff experience that can give them some help up front….They need a Doug Weight replacement (but about 10 years younger).
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
I think this guy Okposo is coming soon, and he's a touted power forward with some solid scoring ability.
Hope he can prove himself. Nino is still in the ranks too, and he’s going to be a BIG power forward one day. I expect nino to fill out to a solid 6’2’’+ 220lbs forward one day.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Yeah....I Know
They need a little on the NHL Roster Boost i think though….NO? A Veteran with some NHL CLOUT of you know what I mean…..Probably bets off going after a guy like that in the off-season.
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
I agree, we need another scorer and we definitely need some size. No question about that.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Sell-Off
Is this start of a lot of moves?
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
Not a big fan of this...
Eventually this has to end. Getting a second rounder for a short timer looks good on the surface… but there are over 40 games to play and this is what our defence looks like:
A-mac… 2 years ago ECHL… this year best defenseman on the Islanders… that’s GROWTH…?
Travis… 20 years old.. playing 20 minutes a game… i guess this is what they mean by hindsight is 20/20
Mark Eaton… just on the rim of the garbage can like the eclair that George ate. I might even start calling him Mark Eclair.
Marty… well maybe he’s back… maybehe isn’t… it’s Marty… he’s great if you can keep him out of the trainer’s room.
Jack Hillen… His game went with his jawbone… really liked jack, but know we don’t know jack.
Bruno… the only defenseman to be involved in a fight this year… so he’s got that going for him.
Reese… Guess who we get to see tomorrow in Pitts chasing Cindy and Gino… oh.. that’s gonna be fun.
KKK… talked to Forbiano today on his weekly chat… Kohn is a still “getting there”, Katic is hurt and Klementyev is a “project”
O’Neil… maybe the next Amac… from scrap heap to NHL starter in less than a year. Wahoo.
also…
Looks like deHaan is our Marty of the future… again.. the Islanders need to do bone density tests before the draft.
That leaves Donovan as our best defensive prospect still skating… I wonder if he’s geting text messages from his agent while he’s visiting his parents on winter break.
next up… Nathan Lawson… you’re the next contestant on is Rick Dipietro gonna leave hangin in the breeze…
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
by JPinVA on Dec 28, 2010 5:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
My cina is fina...
what about your cina?
You’re correct… and Milan has been playing well… amazingly since his Providence mentor is gone… so… maybe i was wrong… we’ll be fine.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
Haha, no obviously we will be anything but fine.
Just wanted to remind you if you’re doing a rundown of our Wiz replacements.
Jurcina was brutal against the Rags last night
I have never seen a guy so big who uses his size to no effect whatsoever. What a waste of 245 lbs. He runs around more than any other D with no results.
If he was only more smart and more physical, he'd be a great top 4.
Hell, his slapshot is 1st PP unit worthy. He has so much potential but just can’t get there. If someone coached his every move and play strictly, we could have a cornerstone part of our organization with him instead of the #5/#6 d-man we have.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
today... maybe...
but do you get the feeling that long term we’re looking at a guy who averages 30 games a year for 7 years, then has to retire?
wow… I was really gonna try to stay positive today… that went out like the first cup of coffee with this news.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
Just can't think that way
You Can’t….Anything can happen to any player…..Whats the point of watching /Rooting if you think that nothing good can happen.
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
De haan had one injury plagued season from his wrist(right?) and now he's injury plagued?
Come on. The knee we will find out about, he has been getting bigger/stronger, and he doesn’t play a ram bam style that will hurt him. He is far from the next martinek. He may be able to play defense like martinek or a-mac, but he also has the smarts and passing/offensive skills to be next timmonen or XXXXX 35-40pts #2 d-man(if defensively responsible as touted).
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
No wrists here
Shoulders and hips, we are exclusively a shoulder and hip organization. Pretty sure he was a shoulder like Hamonic..(and Streit, Okposo et.al.)
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
I was being cautiously sarcastic... if that is a posting qualification..
… but lets not get a bust ready for him in the hall just yet…. maybe he and his pencil-like frame shoudl play in a league of MEN for a year… or let’s start with a game… work our way up to a month… then we can talk about his skills.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
O'Neill/MacDonald comparison
There is none. MacDonald was not released by any organization and played half a season in the ECHL his first pro year. He wasn’t exactly a scrap-heap guy. He was never given up on by the Isles. O’Neill is and would also have to be signed to an entry level contract as he is still just on an AHL 25 game try-out contract.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
I know the history of both...
I was a little disappointed that they let him go the first time… and they are way different… but if Oh Kneel was to rise to a starting NHL job he would have made quite an unexpected ascent. Is that not true?
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
No one's mentioned
Kohn and Katic are both deserving of a chance to show what they can do on the NHL level.
I don’t see the Isles Rushing DeHaan up from Juniors.
Worst case scenario, the Isles try out either Kohn or Katic or both and sign DeHart to take their spot in Bridgeport.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
What are the Pros/Cons to Kohn and Katic?
I’m really curious to see what the upside/downside of both are.
Kohn
He played pretty solid last year. Saty at home D-man.
by Russel Ginart on Dec 28, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Kohn is a big mobile guy, former 2nd round pick. His major set back is he’s athletic but doesn’t have much in the way of hockey sense. He’s in his fourth season in the organization, played 15-20 games with the big club last year.
Katic is a smaller guy, good on the PP but will probably be exposed at the NHL level 5-5 due to his size. Think of MAB, good offensive, size limits him defensively.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
I really wasn't impressed by Kohn's callup last year
But then I was impressed by Reese’s, so what the hell did I know?
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Reese's fall from grace
He spent 82% of all his even strength shifts last year with Freddy Meyer.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I did mention that
in the thread of my first comment. Kohn it’s put up or shut up time and Katic would easily slip in on the PP but probably wouldn’t be able to handle the even strength minutes Wis was responsible for.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry
I was scanning quickly, my mistake.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Not a problem. Everyone kind of latched onto the de Haan thing so its understandable.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Since it's fitting
Wiz’s Chart again
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Dec 28, 2010 6:01 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yes
Look at the disparity between corsi and high PP minutes. The last data point is really a fine example of it, then you can back track to others. (28, 25, 3, 9, 13, 15,) weird. And then toward the end of his tenure, it looks like they leveled his even strength minutes when he had high PP time, and still the Corsi was not good. Maybe that’s when they decided to get rid of him?
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
I like Corsi a lot
But I wonder if has run into the wall with this year’s Islanders. Like, everyone’s Corsi is so bad that it breaks the system, you know?
Haha
The New York Islanders…we destroy math.
I don’t know a lot about it and have been trying to learn. Obviously everything has its weaknesses, but last night’s sheet actually confirmed that Bailey/Grabner/Nielsen were good (as many of us thought), and look, generally, in watching the games, I saw very little value in Wiz…About all I can equate him to was the Yankees gamble on Javy Vazquez this year. He was supposed to be an innings muncher and strike out guy with some upside, but he was miserable and getting knocked around (so he was not eating innings). Similar to Wiz who was eating minutes (poorly at 5 on 5), but being horrible on defense, contributing some PP scoring, but his “strikeouts” were supposed to be his physical game, which he never brought.
I still think that gesture thing was worth 1.75 mil. though…that was awesome!
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
http://www.behindthenet.ca/2010/new_5_on_5.php?sort=7§ion=corsi&mingp=&mintoi=&team=NYI&pos=
Wiz has the 2nd worst Corsi on the team, ahead of only Matt Martin whose considered a 3rd/4th liner.
But I’ll admit I’m not as good with Corsi as I could be. If you guys wanted a comparison I could get the same chart going for a few other Islanders.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
His Corsi Rel was 2nd best on the team.
And his quality of competition was pretty high
His PDO and goalie save % was unfairly low
[link] So maybe I’m being too hard on him. And maybe the Isles need to hold on to all the assets they can, even if they’re poor man’s version of other teams’ nice things.
But suffice to say, I wouldn’t feel good locking him up as the Isles 2nd-best, 2nd-highest-paid D man.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
As to the trade
I don’t know what to think. The 50th overall pick won’t be more then 10-13 picks better than the third rounder we gave up to get Wiz. A conditional 5th wont be worth much. I realize he was a defensive liability, but he did have something to fear on the PP point. I dunno.
NTIPC
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Dec 28, 2010 6:34 PM EST reply actions
Actually the 3rd was a conditional pick
We have 2 picks in the 3rd. We give them our worst of our pick and Colorado’s pick. Colorado is 11th in the League so figure that pick is currently ~80th (because the conditional pick we just got also moves the 3rd round back a pick).
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
did not know this.
Thanks. Makes me feel better
NTIPC
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Dec 28, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
And that 3rd round pick was picked up for our 4th rounder last year
So we turned a 4th round pick into the 50th overall and possibly a 5th round next year while also having Wiz’s services for nearly half a season.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Good trade
Second rounder for a third rounder is what I see
As for what do we do now. Blah blah he ate up minutes
What do we do now? We lose that’s what we so now. That’s what we were doing with him.
by Torch7 on Dec 28, 2010 6:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
We can lose with the Wiz and we can lose without the Wiz.
by Torch7 on Dec 28, 2010 6:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Exactly. If you guys are debating that we won't have anyone to fill in his overall minutes then I feel sorry for you.
We weren’t going anywhere this season with or without him, so what does it matter if we use fill-ins to experiment in his roles for the rest of the season?
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
We may not be going anywhere but I still prefer to watch them win every 3rd game
at least. I’m gonna be watching either way. That losing streak was tough. I’d like to see us play .500 hockey or thereabouts the rest of the way.
Wiz wasn't the make or break for us winning, remember that. If a PP QB is so good, then how come we had that rediculous powerplay drought?
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
by OzzyFan on Dec 28, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
True.
Overall on the year so far the power play hasn’t been good even with him. I just think he was the most athletic d-man they had, the best puck carrier with the best hands and this is going to mean more time in our own zone and we already spend too much time in our own zone. Wiz really was a very talented player. There were times when he was carrying the puck that you could easily tell that he was a better athlete than even most guys in the NHL. That’s saying alot.
I just think he was the most athletic d-man they had, the best puck carrier with the best hands
I saw moments of this — truly, this is what enticed me about him. But it just seemed to disappear all too often, or he’d make boneheaded plays (both with the puck and without) that’d make me wonder if he was hurt or just prone to drifting off topic.
Maybe the problem for him really is simply playing too much. I’m just wary of locking a guy like that up as a key cog rather than a nice depth piece.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Summary
Wiz is to defense, as Comeau is to forward.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Sportscenter superstar
The problem I have had with the Islanders this season is that so many players look so good every few games. It is all the play in between that is scary. These flashes of brillaince cause us to fall in love with players until we watch them every night and realize those plays are rare.
Rarely do you see a highlight on how terrible a player was on a simple play that meant the puck wasn’t cleared and ten seconds later the puck is in the net. The highlight is the bang-bang play into the back of the net and not the simple mistake that caused the turnover or that caused a team to become worn down by chasing the puck for an entire shift. I remember Wiz’s big hit against Dallas and the rocket off the crossbar against Price like it was yesterday, all the turnovers and the standing around in front of the net become a blur, but they really happened as well.
That's part of the argument for Corsi
If you fail to clear and the opponent gets shots on net it hurts your Corsi. Of course Corsi needs context like quality of competition and zone starts – but it does a good job of penalizing players for the bad plays you alluded to.
This is why NHL.com video needs more than just goals/hits/saves
How much better could we do if we were able to pull video for any 15-second portion of a game? Or failed PPs and such? Sometimes even the goal highlights are poor because they start so late in the play and don’t tell you what happened beforehand to make everything go.
/spoiled nhl video rant
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
From "Habs Eyes On the Prize
He will be an added bonus on the blueline, where he has 21 points through 34 games this season, with four coming against the Canadiens. His right handed shot is also a very accurate one, as attested to his 71 SOG (18th amongst NHL defensemen).
Wisniewski has 52 hits and 35 blocked shots this season and his -18 rating has to be overlooked on an appalling Islanders club that has an overall goal differential of -36.
He will be able to eat up minutes on the blueline, giving the likes of Josh Gorges, Jaroslav Spacek and Roman Hamrlik some rest, but you won’t see him used often on the penalty kill, where he only averaged 1:54 a game.
Their poll: What is your reaction to the trade?
Like It: 21
Don’t Like It.: 2
Give me a few games: 3
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
his -18 has to be overlooked?
That I don’t get. The next closest Islander Dman is a -12, which is Mottau who was playing through an injury. Even Hillen and Gervais are only a -7.
The other night I pointed out that Wiz was a -21 in losses, and a +2 in wins. So even when the Islanders win, he still struggles to stay positive.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Excellent point.
He looks so good carrying the puck and his shot is a cannon but he is terrible defensively. He’s a perfect example of how your eyes can fool you and you need to look at the numbers. How are his Corsi #s. Not good I bet.
+/- is generally useless
Use relative +/- or Corsi instead.
Wiz is still bad by those metrics, of course, but not as egregiously so compared to his teammates.
I think if there’s a major jump in +/- then you can use it. When your talking about a 1 or 2 difference in +/-, it’s inconsequential. When your talking about a -7 difference between him and the next closest dman (who was suffering an injury for most of the season) and a -11 difference between him and two of the worst Islanders dmen, I think it’s a big enough to be useful.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I agree 35 games is too small to use +/-.
His Corsi Rel was very good and his quality of competition based on Corsi Rel of the opponents was not that bad 0.227. I’m confused by CorsiRelQoc. There are only a few guys who have negatives. Does this mean the Isles have had a more difficult than average schedule?
Yes
http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/NYI/2011.html puts the Islanders as having the sixth toughest schedule in the league so far.
I still feel his +/- is so much worse then the rest of the Islanders that it’s an obvious issue when he’s on the ice.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
How does it go unnoticed? I agree.
Obviously it’s part from him not able to play good at even strength, but it’s also a big part due to his defensive abilities. He plays defense like about a bottom 2 guy. End of story for that. Is it really debatable that wiz was a gambler on defense and not a steady reliable defender? I think having the worst goalie save %age on the team when he’s on the ice speaks for itself at .883. PP specialist with defensive issues. THAT IS WHAT WIZ IS.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
It is
What it Wiz
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
by Keith Quinn on Dec 29, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Another angle: PDO, save%
I mentioned this above, but his PDO and goalie save % while he’s on the ice (.883!) are out of whack - they’re pretty bad, kind of like K.O. last year (IIRC), which can lead to uglier +/ than is warranted.
(PDO is basically team shooting % plus team save %, the theory being that over time it regresses toward around 1, so if a player’s PDO is really low compared to his teammates then circumstances maybe screwing him a bit.)
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Very accurate shot?
3/71= 4.23%
Last year for the Ducks he was 2.1%.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Making that stat even worse. lol
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
When people say accurate shot, they usually mean “can hit the net,” not “can score.”
Although I’m not sure how that really helps Wiz either. As far as I can tell, not a single Isles d-man can hit the net from the point.
Which makes replacing him with A-Mac alarming
Is A-Mac any better at hitting the net? I haven’t seen it. He might be better at avoiding, “aw hell, I’m just putting my head down and blasting it into a shinguard,” but…
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
An "appalling Islanders Club"
Jeez give an F ing break. Appalling. That’s tuff talk. Are we appalling. Jeez
by Torch7 on Dec 28, 2010 7:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Weren't too appalling Sunday now were we?
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
This doesn't make sense for the canadiens.
They have hamrlik, spacek, and subban. All 3 are effective pp point d-men, and how much rest do they need? None are playing more then 22min/gm. I guess wiz is an upgrade over markov and weber on the pp, but MAB would have been as good or better of a fit for them for pp help. And he would have been free to acquire too, no?
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
MAB
I think he had some kind of offseason surgery, so he was always going to be a late-comer to the party.
Since Wiz brings a little more to the table and is actually in game shape, I can see why they’d go with Wiz if they can afford it. Plus, Wiz brings some of the crazy.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Wiz brings some of the crazy
I was hoping he’d bring a little more, but he didn’t seem to bring it to the Island.
Me too
Apathy, resignation, or injury? I wonder.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
I think it could be a credible reason- responsibility
With so many players out, him bringing the crazy would have made thigns even crazier for a decimated defense.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 29, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
The habs fans will learn... of the scoring droughts, glass smackers, and shin pad slappers
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
His right handed shot is also a very accurate one
COUGH!
Um- WHAT?
I like Wiz, but if I had a dime for every “Wisniewski shoots it wide” I could quit my job!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 29, 2010 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
rest of year - D
I really don’t want them over playing Travis Hamonic the rest of the year – keep him to 15 minutes a game as much as possible – use this as a learning experience and DON’T BURN HIM OUT
I’d call up Reese, O’Neill (sign him please…) and each of KKK on a rotating basis, two at a time, and see what they have if anything
Can we give Hillen away too?
I have a fanshot thread set up for the De Haan injury
He was crushed into the boards in the early second and fell awkwardly. He struggled to get to his feet and later had to be helped up and supported going into the locker room. Announcers thought it was his left knee. The offcial word was a leg injury.
We essentially gave up Wiz for NOTHING
The chances of a 2nd round pick becoming something legit is slim to none…
by KO21 on Dec 28, 2010 7:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Snow's 2nd round picks
07 none
08 Trivino (looking good) Ness (looking bad) Hamonic (looking great)
09 Mikko (looking good)
10 Nelson (traded 2 second rounders for the 1st rounder)
So I’d argue he has a pretty good track record. if he can finally pry Ness away from the mess in Minnesota it might improve.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
good point
Also, if we have the #31 or #32, we can use that pick to move back up into the first round if a David Musil falls.
I don't get it
They gave away a legit NHL d-man, which this franchise has few of to begin with, who is also the only guy on the blueline that can stay healthy. It’s not even January yet; at least pretend you’re going to care about this season. I’d be happier if they had just let him walk at the end of the year.
Why?
There’s no chance they’re making the playoffs this year. Might as well add another chip or two for the future and let Kohn or Katic prove they belong in the NHL. There’s no reason to let Wis walk in the offseason when they can get something valuable for him.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
For me, it's too early
I find it hard to believe, barring injury, his trade value would go down the rest of the season. If the point is to give those guys a shot in the NHL, give them Chef Bruno’s minutes. Speaking of which, can’t wait to see his ice time increase!
Or
Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Teams are actually more likely to pay more for players the earlier in the season they get them than two month rentals at the deadline. The more time Wis played, the lower his +/- goes, the lower his value becomes. Its on par with what Washington paid for pending UFAs Joe Corvo and Eric Belanger and what Boston paid for Dennis Seidenberg last year.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Some more
Pittsburgh traded a second for Jordan Leopold
Nashville traded a second for Denis Grebeshkov
Ottawa traded a second for Sutton
Chicago traded “future considerations” for Nick Boynton
Boston traded a conditional pick for Derrick Morris
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know
Maybe I’m just tired of this (constantly trading for picks). I’m not into the Moneypuck statistics and I realize he wasn’t exactly great (also due to playing about 3-4 slots ahead of his ability), but I still enjoyed his play and the jam he brought to the team.
The problem is that he thinks he’s a top 2 defenseman and deserves top 2 money and top 2 time. Signing him in the offseason would have been a hassle, and I don’t think he’s worth 4 Million a year.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Agreed
But would rather see him here a few more months and then dealt at the deadline rather than Chef Bruno assuming more responsibility.
Whose to say Bruno is the one who takes Wisniewski’s minutes? I have a feeling it will be some combo of Jurcina and Kohn or Katic who do.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
So
Even with traditional stats you enjoyed someone who put up the worst +/- in the NHL not by a player on the Devil.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Growing pains
Maybe I’m just tired of this (constantly trading for picks).
I’m not gonna lie: While I agree with the premise of dealing expiring assets for picks, after this year I imagine I’ll have had my fill. And I enjoyed watching Wz’s better moments, even if he drives me crazy at other times.
But I figured this what they had to do with him; just a shame it came so early.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
I admit it is hard to get psyched over just another pick
It wold be nice to bring in a name once in a while, but I’m resigned to the fact that this is how this team operates. Wiz was an asset that could have brough in a warm body, but in terms of asset management it was a good move.
It’s actually closer in recent draft history to 60-70% of a second round pick becoming a regular NHLer, up from about 50% a decade ago. Also would you rather have Winiewski walk away for nothing at the end of the year, with only a lost season as the return on the 3rd Snow gave up for him? Basically turning a 3rd rounder into a 2nd and conditional 5th (where more than likely the conditions will be met) is a pretty damn good job.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
We gave up Wiz for more than we spent for him.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 28, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
AT THIS RATE
snow can just keep turning over players, tell wang " dont worry, I got a plan " keep his job for what ? 10 more years ?
Milbury kept his job for 10 years
And never had a long term plan
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
And
WebBard’s Vietnam-like flashbacks to the Milbury years begin.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
If anyone mentions JP Dumont or Berard
I run around stabbing people!
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Rupp
Another Reason to hate the Devils and Pens. Can’t believe he has 2 cup rings.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
But
There once was a man named Milbury
Who beat a Ranger fan with a shoe
He picked Rick DiPietro
and metaphorically did the same to him too
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't there some kind of Forum penalty
for actually naming HWMNBN in a post?
NTIPC
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Dec 28, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve done so many Milbury posts (on my personal blog) that it’s allowed.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
The more Milbury is on TV
The more traffic I get from people googling “Milbury Sucks”
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Anyone remember
the coverage of the draft years back when Milbury was adamant about getting Jason Wiemer? He was ready to throw away whomever it took to get the guy. He finally got him a few years after that, and, bloop
“What about Wiemer? Wiemer? Can I get Wiemer?”
Smithtown's Kyle Palmieri with two goals for US
2-0 USA in 1st
He’s from Montvale, NJ. Born in Smithtown, but raised and went to HS in northern NJ.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Dec 28, 2010 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Wiz's Corsi #s not bad.
Wiz had the best Rel Corsi on the team :
His personal PDO was .941, 4th worst on the team. This jibes with my impression of him which is that he has superior puck skills and skating ability but makes too many risky plays that end up costing goals. His on-ice sv% of .883 is due in large part to the high quality chances that the opposition gets too many of when he is on the ice.
but makes too many risky plays that end up costing goals.
I’d love to know if that’s true. It’s my impression, but you wonder if it can show up in stuff like that. They say high PDO isn’t sustainable for anyone but elite players…could a lower PDO sustain for a guy who takes big risks (and gives up theoretically more dangerous chances)?
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Send it to Hawerchuk.
The question really is, are there any players who’ve sustained low PDOs throughout their career. That stat is pretty new though so there may not be enough data to answer it.
Anyone see the Puck Daddy Title?
Montreal gobbles up defenseman James Wisniewski from Islanders
That’s just so……bad.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
“So add yet another American to the Habs’ roster, and one who’s known to give his opponents a mouthful … not that we’re trying to blow his impact out of proportion. "
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Since when did Puck Daddy get Jay Leno's writers?
by Fabtraption on Dec 29, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
I ws thinking the same......
LOL…..that was not a coincidence.
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
i thought
everyone stole from howard… whoohoo robin, i invented radio
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
by bob l on Dec 29, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol. Leno stole jay walking
but youre right…Howard invented everything..Gotta admit he did break the rules and open the doors for everyone else…TV shows like friends wouldnt have ben able to use blue humor and sex jokes if it wasnt for Stern crossing the lines
all howard did was refuse to stop pushing the envelope, but he didnt do anything particularly new, he was the best at it in any event, and btw friends was a rip-off of the british show, “coupling”
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
My Feelings on this (for whatever that is worth):
This may be unpopular to say, but I did not consider Wisniewski the Isles best d-man at all. He is a decent defenseman, a generally good point producer. He takes a lot of risks, and we simply dont have the guns to cover for that when it doesnt work out. Our BEST defenseman is not playing this season, unfortunately. And Wiz is (well, was) not even our 2nd best defenseman- thats Andy MacDonald. Our 3rd best defenseman is either Martinek or Travis Hamonic, even though he is just a kid. That makes Wiz our 5th best defenseman- at best. Mind you, Im talking about playing defense- the main role of a defenseman.
I also cant say this was necessarily the wrong move- because I dont know WTF Garth is going to do with this 2nd round pick (and possible 5th round pick). We probably wont know for a while. After I calmed down a bit and thought about it, I realized this.
Yeah Im bummed about Wiz being gone. But when it comes right down to it, Garth got more for him than he paid for him- he turned a 3rd into a 2nd (and possibly a 5th). Not much of a big deal, really- but a team doesnt really lose out on that when all is said and done.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 28, 2010 10:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
for me it's just like the sutton trade last year...
… maybe worse. I agree with you on where he stood on the Isles depth chart. The only thing I really have issue with was that Wiz was at least healthy all year, and he showed up for every game. That may not seem like a lot to ask ffor from professionals… but looking forward there is nobody to replace him. If they had designs on calling up Calvin deGlass that dream was shattered this afternoon. According to fornabio none of hte KKK is NHL ready. Katic might be now that he is playing again… but we’ve seen the other two… no parade worthy performances there… and I definitely don’t want to see Reese again until he’s out of short pants.
I really hate the philosophy of “you can lose with or without [enter 2nd round pick worthy trade bait here]”. These kids, and we do really really have a young team now… need SOMEBODY to learn from. Wiz was no old man… and maybe you didn’t want them to learn all of his BAD HABITS… but I think this trade needs more justification than, “I spent a 3rd rounder and got a 2nd rounder”.
There is something more to this… and I would bet that it might be coach/lockerroom related. He was ousted pretty quickly from two organizations… and one of them needed defensive help as much as we did…. alot more than they needed a 3rd rounder. I have a feeling there is more to this story than meets the eye.
I wonder if Botta will post that Wiz told him he would have stayed for less money, that he really liked long island and Garth Snow is just in salary dump mode…. They’ll have to post extra security just to keep him out of the building.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
by JPinVA on Dec 28, 2010 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Trading Wiz Okay with Me
For the following reasons:
1. Maybe I’m wrong, but once the losing started it just didn’t look like he wanted to be here. In interviews he always seemed disgusted. If that’s the case, I can’t say I blame the guy for not wanting to be part of another rebuild since he’s a veteran player who previously got dumped from Chicago with nothing to show for it.
2. No way Garth was going to re-sign him based on what we’ve seen, so better to move him now.
3. The more I saw him, the less I liked him. He’s pretty awful 5-on-5, and gets beat A LOT off the rush. I can see why both Chicago and Anaheim moved him. And I don’t buy this “he’s a fifth or sixth defenseman being asked to do too much.” Even a 5th or 6th guy needs to be better than he was defensively. Any good coach will get his best players out against him in the playoffs, and look out.
4. When KO comes back, he takes over right point on the PP, and a better defensive defenseman will take his place 5-on-5. Will hardly miss him.
I'm quasi-ok with the trade
But I don’t really agree with any of these points except for #2. If he wasn’t going to be signed, so be it. It remains to be seen what he asks for / what the market is this summer.
But he generally played hard (if poorly) was at least healthy. I didn’t get the sense that he had an attitude or anything like that. And this is a hard team to play for, what with the awfulness of the team, the losing streak, the negative press, the building, the lack of fans in said building, etc.
But here is the thing: the Isles do not have better defensive d-men to replace him. If Hillen / Jurcina / Gervais play the minutes that Wiz did, they’d made old Wiz look like Ray Fucking Bourque.
Wiz was traded by the Ducks because they didn’t want to face him in Arbitration.
The Duck’s likely position in this summer’s negotiation was, perhaps, best summed up by OCR beat writer Eric Stephens, who noted the following when the Ducks qualified Wisniewski:
It is believed that Wisniewski is seeking a salary closer to what a No. 2 defenseman makes while it’s likely that the Ducks don’t view him as that and had to play him so much more out of necessity than desire.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
KO better be in front on the PP
thats where he belongs
No more De's & Di's
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Something Else...
Could be making room for a Bieksa etc.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
all the arguing ...
about wisniewski and the trade and if he would have stayed, i just don’t get. was james wisniewski really going to be a difference maker for this team? who cares if he wanted to be here, or if he was the ‘country club’ guy? snow got a decent pick for him. he’s gone. it was a good move. aside from macdonald and hamonic, all of the D-men can go if they get decent picks for them.
But arguing is what we're here for!
Isn’t it? At least on off days? If we can’t debate meaningless decisions with a fine-tooth comb, what purpose can we find in this mortal existence?
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Draft picks
How many draft picks can we stock up on. We are loaded with young talent already.
The problem is that the young talent arent panning out yet. No, not last years draft, but where are the picks from a few years back? We have nothing to show for those drafts.
What do you mean loaded with young talent?
Sure we have a number of players with solid potential, but not all will pan out. Not to mention, a lack of young talent in the system through drafts is the reason why most team’s need to rebuild or usually lack abilitiy to stay a cup contender year in and year out when they lose good/great role players to free agency.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Nothing to show for all the picks we've taken.
Look,
2008- Trivino, Ness, Toews, Petrov.
2007- DiBenedetto, Gregiore, Gratchev, Katic
2006- Joensuu, Figren, Rakhshani, Marcinko
And we have absolutely nothing to show for 2005 and earlier! Where are these players? Why arent they starring at the NHL level yet??
We can stack draft picks all you want, but they never pan out!!
Trivino, Ness, Gregiore are all still in School
Toews is in the WHL this season after two poor years in school.
DiBendetto, Katic, Joensuu, Figren, Rakh, Marcinko are all in the AHL.
Petrov is stuck in the KHL
College Players have a longer time as Prospect due to 4 years of School.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
It takes time for most players to develop
Very few non-early 1st rounders make the jump immediately to the NHL (Patrice Bergeron and Ryan O’Reilly are the exceptions). Even after juniors/NCAA it takes at least a year in the minors to adjust to the pro game before they can move up to the NHL. Very few guys from each of those draft classes outside of the first round have yet to make a major impact, if any. For example; from 2008, only six of the 30 players selected in the second round have played in the NHL yet and they have a combined 80 games played between them. Only Derek Stepan has been a regular contributor at the NHL level for the Rangers this season.
And Gratchev is playing in the KHL after bouncing between the AHL and ECHL. 4th rounder, no big loss he didn;’t turn into anything.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
by David Hanssen on Dec 29, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
An addendum
From the 2nd round of 2008, Travis Hamonic and Marco Scandella (For the Wild, also Sergio Momesso’s nephew) are now more or less full time NHL contributors as well but both had to take at least a third of the season in the AHL before making the jump. Most of the guys from 2008 are still only 20, 2007 they’re 21. They’re still kids. For some comparisons on the current roster, Andrew MacDonald and Frans Nielsen didn’t make their NHL debuts until they were 23.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
by David Hanssen on Dec 29, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Good job putting this into context
A five year re-build is still a quick fix in my books when you consider it takes three to five years for a player to develop into an NHL caliber player.
I'm not exactly ...
Johnny Patience myself, but I figure that they’re not really trying to improve the team and they won’t unless and until there’s certainty on an arena. In the meantime – and the meantime is now – amassing as many picks as possible and giving all the ice time to prospects that do show potential is smart. I’m making myself bored saying this for 3 years now, but this team is literally in a holding pattern and the ‘rebuild’ is really a basic ‘just in case scenario’ so some decent pieces are place and they have chips to play in the event the team’s future is secured. It sucks that the team is so bad, but the strategy seems pretty sound to me.
And it's true that ....
not a lot of stars have developed from the list of draftees, but isn’t that true for the great majority of teams and isn’t the NHL draft a known crapshoot at best ? If 2 or 3 guys pan out as even reasonably productive players out of 6 or 8 or 10 picks, that’s a pretty good percentage it seems to me. I think all the other turmoil and wallowing in losing this team has gone through makes it easier to point to the draft as a failure and highlights the overall lack of talent.
There’s not a lot of Draftees from 2006 and beyond that have jobs in the NHL right now. The Islanders probably have the most, with Tavares, Okposo, Bailey, Hamonic, Martin and MacDonald.
"My lasting image of Lemieux interacting with an Islanders defenseman is of Mario getting knocked on his ass by Darius Kasparaitis in 1993." - rmblifn #VolekStatue
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
WJC
For anyone who didn’t catch Canada’s game against Russia to start, our lil fella Casey Cizikas was a friggin beast. He was interviewed after and joked around saying he hoped his play earned him some brownie points. He wasn’t on the scoresheet, but was everywhere. He turned the momentum around with his efforts in a PK, and, as an added bonus, seems eager to want to go to the Isles asap. I think we will like this guy if he makes it.
LOL
Youre not illiterate… these thigns have a way of sneaking up on ya! :)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 29, 2010 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
He will be in Bridgeport next year I suspect
had two unnecessary minors against the Czechs and it probably should have been four. He is 1-1-2 through three games.
Compilation of observations from Hab fans on Canadian websites
“Bobby Orr like stats”
“Bergeron without the defensive liability”
“Rough and tumble defensive defender”
“Young and cheap mobile defender”
“He’ll eat up PP and PK minutes while being solid defender at even strength”
“bring some fear into the opposition when they cross the blue-line "
“he’ll be an RFA so all Gauthier has to do is qualify him "
So in other words, these people are delusional amd misinformed. So I cherry picked the stupidest of quotes, but you get the idea. Has anyone seen him throw a big hit since the Dallas game? He has Rich Pilon like mobility on his defensive assignments. He brings fear to the Islanders when the opposition enters the zone. The Canadiens in essence took their first rounder converted it into a second round compensation, added a fifth and got what the Islanders got for converting a fourth into a third. Would Islanders fans be happy trading a first rounder and a fifth for the Wiz? The Islanders wound up paying $1.6 million to upgrade from a third round to a second and a fifth.
In all honesty, I was never a big Wiz fan, but thought getting him on the cheap was a smart move in the off-season. His comments when he was with Chicago and Anaheim always pegged him as a jackass and not the sharpest tool in the shed so I had red flags on his character. I was hoping that his high risk act on offense would have come with more of a physical edge, but it never materialized here. We’ll always have the Avery moment which is priceless.
He wasn’t the Islanders worst defenseman for sure and he did bring offense so it will hurt in the short term. That’s why I wouldn’t have been in such a rush to move him with over half the season to go considering the number of injures on defense, but I guess you take what you can get for him since I firmly believe he wasn’t re-signing here. Would it have been nice to bring back a young prospect instead of another pick? Maybe. Some people believe it is better to pick your own prospects than re-work someone elses.
by Hockey1919 on Dec 29, 2010 11:40 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
Those are funny
Although I have no doubt that Wiz won’t be such a defensive liability on a better team. Montreal could be a good fit for him, who knows.
Again I don’t think Wiz is a bad fourth defenseman and maybe a three if he has the right partner (ie. N. Lidstrom), but they were way over the top in terms of the defensive snarl he was going to bring. I thought he was going to be lot edgier based on his suspension history, but it looks like it it suspension worthy hit or not hit at all. Right handed shot is his best commodity although the Islanders are an oddity with a surplus of righties.
He had Niedermayer in Anaheim - that worked well for him.
But then wouldn’t that benefit anyone?
Yep
Stick ‘em with A HOF’er and watch that turd sparkle!
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
rec'd like his rep on LI
As I said in an earlier post, he was sold a bill of goods, we were sold a bill of goods… we learned, they’ll learn too.
Nice job on plucking the duck.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
There is a reason he is off to his 4th team at 26
All anyone sees is the good stuff coming in and after a while you start to see the missed assignments, missed shots, etc. Remember when we picked him? The Anaheim fans were happy to see him go. It doesn’t help the team now but I’m not upset at all.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Im sure Wiz wasnt resigning
the pattern shows that he would leave at the end of the yr…FA’s always bail on us…They all bailed on Ted Nolan after they had a playoff appearance…Nobody wants to stay here…How depressing
His (lack of) big hits
In cases like this — probably because I’m a softy — I’ll always wonder or feel guilty that maybe the hits dropped off because he was playing through injuries or something. Not injuries you should sit for, but injuries that make you think twice about throwing an undersized body into another 210 pounds of flesh.
That said, I’m on board with Hockey1919’s take. My god, do Canadiens fans hate Bobby Orr that much that they’ll tarnish him so?
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
I only judge by what I see on the ice and the big hits weren’t there. Was he hurting? Pride most definitely. After the hit on Jamie Benn I was thinking he would be plastering people and then I never saw it again. Maybe I didn’t watch all of the games close enough. Freddy Meyer seemed to make a bigger impact when he was here.
In fairness Freddy Meyer is one of the most aggressive hitters in the league.
You may not have realized it at the time but he tries to hit everything moving.
Oh, I think you saw plenty of the games
Agreed, the big hits just were not there. I believe there was one or two recently where I thought, “Hey! That Wiz guy we heard about is coming back!” But no…
Incidentally, FMIV had the highest GVT of Isles D-men not named Streit or Hillen last year!
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Would Montreal have taken him
If he was hurting? Maybe, but if it compromised the defensive 1/2 of his game, do you think they would tolerate that in hopes it would improve? It is really a throw away pick for them so they probably don’t care too much, but if it were me, I would want him healthy first and his complete game. (Maybe that is the condition on the 5th)
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Cant we trade a body for a body, for once???
What does this tell the players and the fans?Sounds like Garth and Wanger are telling us the season is over and we have no commitment to winning in the near term…I hope to God the players, such as JT, Bailey, Mouslon, etc dont want to gtfo of here…I cant believe they want to stay…Who wants to be part of a team that builds a culture of losing?After getting rid of Wiz and counting the guys like Yash, DP and other players who are hurt and not playing or simply getting paid to stay out, we have maybe 25million in payroll on the ice…Now how the hell are they supposed to compete???They will be lucky to scoere another PP goal this yr…
best to know when it's over
i understand wang and snow… when i was trapped on my destroyed ship… crew dead… i knew it too. i made the best out of a bad situation and set off the genesis device by turning these cool metal rings and did my best to hurt admiral kirk… my old friend.
unfortunately they got away before the explosion but i went out with a bang
by Khan Noonien Singh on Dec 29, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
by David Hanssen on Dec 29, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
JT and Josh are here for the foreseeable future and Moulson will stay as long as JT does
Most of the players who have real trade value Garth wouldn’t want to trade. The exceptions are Frans and Blake. Frans has always been very good and Blake is having a good year AND they are both VERY cheap. One trade I could see is Frans and Blake for Mikael Samuelsson and Alex Edler. Gets us above the cap floor and the Canucks below the ceiling without trading Bieksa when Salo returns. Canucks may not be crazy about MS who they recently demoted from first to third line duty, but he would be perfect to line up alongside JT.
One other thing to consider...
October 11, 2010… at about 2:30PM Charles Wang, who appears to be a pretty civil family man, nudges Garth, “This was a mistake, when you get a chance he’s got to go. I want kids in here, and they don’t need to see that”.
I’m not going to say that’s right or wrong in the hockey world, but he did do something like that I would respect that decision.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
Wondered that, too
That’s the only “off-ice” type of issue I could think of, unless there was other stuff with how he carried himself.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
We like Picks
Could the islanders have claimed Svatos off of waivers and then traded him to St. Loius for a draft pick instead of Nashville picking him up? Would it have been worth it for a fifth rounder? Nabokov could be next and would have been an interesting strategy if a team has the roster space
Not allowed
I found the clause (13.23):
For the balance of the Playing Season, any such Player who has been obtained via Waivers may be Traded or Loaned only after again clearing Waivers or through Waiver claim.(The above refers only to players who began the season outside North America and had to go through Dubie waivers before joining the team that signs them.)
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Thanks for the research.
In some regard it makes sense to have this clause, but how much would it hurt to allow teams to make these types of deals. The idea is to help the teams at the bottom improve isn’t it? Way too regulated for my liking. A team isn’t going to just grab someone unless they have a deal in place or roster room.
Agreed
Maybe if they only let teams below the signing team in the standings make a waiver claim? I get how it keeps contending teams from harboring a Glenn Anderson overseas until playoff time, but it seems like the weaker teams should be allowed to sign someone without a better team plucking him away.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
That’s exactly what I was thinking teams below you in the standings get to make a waiver claim, I wasn’t even thinking that a team above you could make the claim. The fact that someone above you can take the player after you made the deal is just plain dumbin my books.
by Hockey1919 on Dec 29, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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1979-80
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
