Snow on The Plan: Not trading prospects for a quick fix
by Dominik on Dec 15, 2010 7:00 AM EST
in Big Picture Musings
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PrintIn a word, Garth Snow is sticking to his plan. There is something to be said for that, despite the frustrations of this season -- frustrations that for fans are deepened by the uncertainty over the venue in 2015. WebBard made the point last week in his extensive piece on the rebuild that there is still a long way to go, but they were starting from a hole and the key is not to repeat the mistakes of the past. I really (still) believe that, and I couldn't care less if I'm labeled an apologist for it. I just don't see any other way to build something meaningful given the conditions.
Because just like understanding the quality of your team at any moment requires not being duped into thinking a few victories in a row means you've arrived, so too do a few miserable months demand you not lose sight of the long-term goal. The Islanders are basically brewing a bushel of prospects, and we don't know which ones will hit and which ones won't; but until we have a better idea and until some of them prove this team is changing, it's going to be tough to find the right pieces to complement them or accelerate their development, as we saw this summer.
I used to say the toughest part of the rebuild wasn't the beginning -- draft smart and hold your picks/prospects, that's the straightforward part -- but rather the crescendo, when you have to make tough decisions on all the assets you've developed. But these days I wonder if the toughest part is the midpoint -- when you must resist the urge or outside pressure to do something rash to change things when they're not going well still early in the process.
What follows is the Snow Q&A video posted on the Islanders official site over the weekend, with some of the key answers transcribed for those who can't or won't watch the video. It's a few days old, and I sense from comments that several of you saw it. But it occurred to me that many of you didn't, and I'd rather we have a reference point here where the GM's position is known, so that we're not constantly asking the same questions.
(As an aside, I also find the video interesting from a PR In The 21st Century Perspective, but I'll leave those thoughts for the trades, other than to note the backdrop of some of your favorite Isles player jerseys...the GM in team gear rather than a suit...and thankfully no monumental presidential gaffe like hanging a "Mission Accomplished" banner in the background.
Also, they clearly made a point to bring up all the "tough questions" I see or hear come up among fans -- seriously, we can debate Snow's answers, of course but they didn't ignore the questions of frustrated fans.)
Again, I've transcribed some segments I think are worth noting either for facts or for Snow's position on them, but I didn't transcribe them all. I've also paraphrased or even completely and snarkishly shortened the questions. With some transcriptions, I gave my own opinion afterward.
I didn't transcribe the segment about Josh Bailey, but essentially he was sent down in part because of the 160-game/waiver threshold, and they wanted to see him respond to the challenge, show he's a point producer, learn about himself by handling this adversity -- so far, so good -- and no, there is no set timetable for when he'll return.
Garth Snow Q&A with Fan Questions [video]
I Want Better Stuff. Why Can't We Have Better Stuff?
Snow: "We've looked at different options on the trade front, nothing has made sense. And I'm going to keep saying it until I turn blue: We're not going to move any of our young core players. I'm not going to move any of our top prospects. I'm definitely not going to move our top draft picks."
Personal view: I put this one first, because obviously from my paragraphs above it's what I believe. I'm sure there have been missed opportunities to add players, but ultimately it's hard to make trades in this league -- especially if you're hoping, as fans always do, to "win" those trades. If you don't like the Islanders current tradeable roster players, then chances are a rival GM doesn't either. And that leaves...picks and prospects, which is a non-starter.
Snow on Lingering Off-Ice Topics (i.e. Trottier, Jaffe, Jankowski...)
Snow: "My policy, for me, I'm never going to make comments on former employees, whether that person is terminated or not resigned or extended. I see no upside in that. For me, it's something I like to keep between myself and that person, and the four walls."
Personal view: As a fan, I don't like this -- I want info, info, info -- but as an observer of the league I can respect the "that's between me and that person" part. Some fans think this is an Islanders thing, but teams in this league just don't talk about staff personnel changes. Maybe it's because I follow two teams closely, but I frequently see staff changes by franchises based on evaluations (or other issues) they're simply not going to share. It's like with firing coaches, which is where you'll get the most media meat because it's the most relevant to the team: Even then, you don't publicly go into a coach's failings when you dump him, as being removed is publicly aired trauma enough.
Likewise, no former employee of prominence has aired resentment about the team; I trust they see no "upside" to it as well, so this is generally how things go in the tight-circled NHL. Best you get is whispers through media -- all of which is subject to the agenda of the anonymous source, of course. (On that note, the Billy Jaffe one is toughest to peg because it involves a fan favorite whose fate could have turned by somewhere inside the organization or by a third party, the cable partner MSG.)
If Building within is the Route, Why no Jankowski Replacement?
Snow: "I think people don't recognize the staff that we have on board. If you go to newyorkislanders.com, you can go to the directory and see all the scouts that we have. The one thing I've found over the course of the last few drafts as I get more involved on a one-on-one basis -- not only the regional scouts but the birddogs who are in the trenches on a day-to-day basis: I've built a staff that I'm very proud of, and if you look at our drafts the past few years, they've rated right at the top of the league. So we'll continue to scout in the fashion that we have, because we've had success doing it this way."
Personal view: I hear competing views on this all the time, from insiders and outsiders, and I'm powerless to evaluate it. Jankowski was obviously the public face of a larger operation. Scouting allocation seems to be evolving on a few different paths around the league. The proof for the Isles will be in how well their picks turn out, period.
The Building, and 2015
Snow: "For me, as a general manager, it has no effect on what I do on a day-to-day basis... [note: There's more...I didn't transcribe it all. Snow did also mention the $250k upgrade to the locker room over the summer.] That being said, we definitely need a new building." [From the 12/11 press conference when the Nordique fans invaded: "We're here through 2015. We're gonna honor the lease. I know we're not going to play one day longer than we have to in this arena."
Personal view: This lease and "not one day longer than we have to" talk is obviously an established talking point for the organization. The uncertainty is, I think, what is unsettling a lot of fans more than any other factor. Because the subtext is the team will be somewhere...currently unknown.
This is where Wang needs to step up and address the topic more frequently. It's conceivable that Wang is working on alternatives behind the scenes, the leak of details of which could jeopardize those alternatives. But even if that's the case, Wang should be throwing fans a bone more frequently to reassure them. Take a page from Ted Leonsis.
What's the Mood of the Team?
(I know which LHH member this question came from.)
Snow: "I'm pissed off. No one likes losing. We're doing what we can as a staff, as an organization, as a team, to turn this ship around and start winning."
Why Bother Following This Season?
A fan asked why fans should keep showing up, given how the season has gone...
Snow: "Well, as tough as this season has been, whether it's the injury factor, the losing -- we are a young team that competes at a very high level. There's nothing better than when you have a situation where you get to the point of winning and competing for a Stanley Cup but you've been through the lean years, through the tough times, it makes it that much more rewarding.
"Right now, I admit it, we're going through some tough times. But it's always fun to be a part of it right from the start and watching players grow right before you're eyes is a special feeling.
"For me, even thinking about where we are now and where we're going, it gives me a sense of...--it gives me goose bumps. I know we're on the right track. I know it's tough right now where we are in the standings, but we have a plan and we're sticking to it."
Sadly, this is true, and I suspect it's why it keeps die-hard fans in the fold: The peaks do feel all the sweeter when you've been through the troughs. But this is also why fans are shaken: With uncertainty surrounding 2015, we are now at the point where fans don't know if the team will still be around for that payoff. This is where, again, more signals from Wang would be huge.
I've been impressed by fans' patience with the rebuild process. Around this site, it's been fun that so many are willing to talk soberly about the team even amid a 1-win-in-21 streak. But lurking in the background is a ticking clock that unsettles everyone -- and it has much less to do with what's on the ice than where that ice will be located.
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They got to stay in NY. Period.
I don’t care how many losing seasons. As long as at the end of the “rebuild” they hoist a 2017-2018 Cup banner in NY. Don’t care if it’s LI. Queens or Brooklyn. As I always said I don’t want to suffer through the rebuilds bad times only to watch OK and JT raise a cup in Winnepeg of KC. That would really suck. It’s exactly what happened to the Whalers and the Nordiques. It’s the worst part of my Hockey Night Mare Closet (along with a certain ex bruin coming back as GM).
If I was certain they were staying I would sit back get drunk and laugh at all the losing knowing one day………
by Torch7 on Dec 15, 2010 8:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
BELIEVE
it or not, I heard exacrtly what I wanted to hear (except for the building). this is a massive and total rebuild of a franchise that has been plagued by crappy drafts, crappy signings, crappy scouting and crappy management. Now, despite what some fans here believe, there is a plan in place to build this team through smart scouting, smart drafting, and NO bad panic trades. Yeah, this team is tough to watch right now, BUT the future IS bright. Please, fans, try to remember that all of these kids are young, young, young. Our prospect pool is almost all in the 18-24 range. It takes time to develop talent and PATIENCE. The stand Garth is taking is the right one: hang on to what we have until they prove they do not belong. I was there in the beginning, and I will be there until the end. I hope my team will NEVER leave NY, but I will probably follow them whereever they go. Patience is my virtue (Met fan, Jet fan, Net fan, so I know Patience), and I have usually been rewarded for it. This team WILL reward all of us for our patience, it will just take more time. i agree 100% with Torch about suffering this rebuild in the hope that my team will find a way to stay put either in LI, Queens, or Brooklyn. I am in this for the long haul!!
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 8:37 AM EST reply actions
Met fan, Jet fan, Net fan, Islanders fan
Man, you’re also a fan of a lot of losing.
I kid, I kid, I’m a Met fan myself and completely horribly embarrassed to be one.
by Fabtraption on Dec 15, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
ALL
my teams SUCK…but all of them have a future. The Mets have Alderson, now (but need new ownership), The Nets have the Russian and Avery Johnson and a plan, The Islanders are rebuilding (but need new ownership, what a coincidence). The only winning team I rot for is the Jets and lately Rex Ryan just pisses me off withhis big mouth.
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
there's also the guy tripping folks on the sideline
Jets aside – Rex has a big personality… but that often goes along with a certain laissez-faire attitude towards things, that is beginning to show up with unprofessional actions on and off the field. Sooner or later that stuff comes down on him. Ryan may not be around next year if he doesn’t tighten up the ship. That sort of shtick goes down a lot easier when you’re winning games.
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
That's really rough
In the past 20 years, your favorite teams have won 0 championships.
Their rivals, on the other hand…
Yankees – 5
Giants – 1
Rangers – 1
Knicks – 2 (conference titles, at least…)
Geez, that is rough.
by Fabtraption on Dec 15, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
YEAH
but eventually the tide must turn and I will be “on top of the world, MA!!!!”. Until then I get a LOT of abuse.
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Giants
Two wins ’90 & ’07 and appearance/loss in ’00!
Favorite team, couldn’t let that go!
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Also a Giant fan...
I was feeling a little ill when I went to Indy this year, but luckily I was healed at the Meadowlands vs the ‘skins… if it wasn’t for that game my whole winter would have had one happy live sports memory… The Isles win vs the Rangers in game 2.
30 years
Islanders… 80-84 four championships, 5 appearances… AWESOME
Giants… 86, 90, 00, 07 3 championships and 4 appearances… just slightly less awesome.
Mets… 86, 00 1 championship, 2 appearances, 86 may be the best sports memory ever… not too shabby.
So.. I don’t exactly feel like a Cubs fan… I’ve had my fun, and am willing to wait a little longer for the Isles to hook up to the contender wagon again. Just wish they’d do it with better leadership… well.. at least with an owner I can root for.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Gah
Growing up as a fan, all I’ve got are the 93 Islanders and the 2000 Mets. I was 1 when the ‘86 Mets happened, so I don’t think that counts…
I was 8yo for the 86 Amazins
and became an Isles fan in 92-93. Kaspar was my fav player. Was in the hospital when they lost to the Habs. /still blames self. Little did I know they wouldn’t win a series after Volek’s Dynasty Disruptor ;-) :*(
I was born in the wrong decade
"I think we got the better Lindros." - Fulla Maloney; "If I'm wrong about Kvasha, then off with my head" - Voldemort; {{lifts hand; several pencils, keyboards, and cell phones shatter}} - Darth Wang
I became an Isles fan in 93-94.
I didnt get to see us win anything, ever. {cries}
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 15, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Was in the hospital when they lost to the Habs.
Yikes! I trust everything worked out, but yeah, now I blame you too. And the refs. And Hunter.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
I hear you
In my fan rooting lifetime, during the years when I actually knew what a championship meant (and how hard it was to get), only the teams I care about least have won it all. The teams I live and die with have fed me mostly death.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
:SIGH:
1968-69 was such a good time; 1979-80 to 1982-83 was delirious; 1986 was mind-boggling; 1973-74 and 1975-76 was fun; really miss the good old days.
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yanks, Giants, Knicks, Isles
Thank God im not the typical fan or id be miserable all the time, lol
Same
and ditto on the miserable thing!
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Isles, Mets, Bills
I require more patience than a Jets fan it seems.
As for the Nets, they may be renamed the Brooklyn New Yorkers once they move. I’m hoping that the Isles don’t face a similar name change if they move to Brooklyn.
I'm fine with it. It sucks at the moment, but I'm fine with it.
And one of the few things that actually make this shit storm worse would be to pull on the trigger and lose a prospect for some temporary “not so much.” I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the dead weight (no pun intended) traded for some decent leadership, but all in all, I’m not hankering for a trade.
I do think JT should be sent to BP. Along with some others as well. Let them go down, remember what winning is like, make a run for the Calder. It would do them well.
Reasons why the Isles will stay in NY, maybe even NVMC
-They have that giant contract with MSG. How the hell do they think they could get out of that bind? The money made on that alone will help them stay here.
-Bettman knows the Islanders have a pretty big fan base. We are not selling tickets because we suck, not because of lack of interest from the people in the area (e.g. Phoenix). If/when the Islanders begin to win, they will begin to sell out again. Phoenix didn’t sell out playoff games – thats a true issue.
-Bettman has also made it clear that he does not want to move any of the NHL teams.
-I think the reason Bettman and the NHL haven’t stepped in is because we still have 4 years to go before we would officially be done with NVMC. It only took a year to build the Consol Energy Center. I think in 2013 we will begin to get more about the future of this team. Honestly, Nassau County would lose a ton of money if they didn’t keep the Islanders in NVMC. An expiring contract will be Wang’s best threat. He may be able to pursue some sort of LH: Part II when the threat of losing millions for the town vs. creating a ton of jobs and bringing in millions for the town becomes a real threat. As for now, we don’t matter much to the ToH. When that lease only has 2 years left on it with uncertainty, look for ToH officials to begin sweating.
-As for LH: Part II …I wish Wang would try to pursue a renovated NVMC with more seating, and bigger concourses. Add in that sweet 10,000 person (number check?) ourdoor ampitheater, the 5 star hotel, and the sports medicine research building. I feel like this would bring in a ton of money for him still without going beyond any limits. He would make more money off the Islanders because more seats (if we start winning), he would probably make money off the 5 star hotel, and he would make a ton of money from concert revenues (they could use that Islanders Entertainment to promote/run these concerts in which Wang would make a ton of the gross profit from the concerts), and he would make a bunch of money on the sports medicine facility by renting space, etc.
Scrap the housing and the shopping – we already have Tanger in deer park and riverhead as well as the plethora of malls on LI.
Down With Wang.
by kcNYI on Dec 15, 2010 8:48 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
-Bettman knows the Islanders have a pretty big fan base. We are not selling tickets because we suck, not because of lack of interest from the people in the area (e.g. Phoenix). If/when the Islanders begin to win, they will begin to sell out again. Phoenix didn’t sell out playoff games – thats a true issue.
The game I was at, The fans are just begging for a reason to cheer for the team. As soon as they started scoring goals the place was going nuts. It’s definitely a completely different atmosphere then Phoenix, especially due to the history.
"I knew this was going to be a bad night when I put on the broadcast and saw Mike Milbury bloviating." - AP77
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I agree that a little give on Wang's part would help
The problem is that I don’t think Rechler is even part of this anymore. I think has completely pulled out of the whole thought. Rechler was a big partner in this Yes? Also, I believe this is a personal thing between Murray and Wang. Someone needs to lock them in a room and get this worked out.
I totally agree on a major renovation of the Coliseum and a Lighthouse-type development around it but more seating is not really necessary I don’t think
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
It’s not more seating, it’s more luxury suites, like every other new arena.
"I knew this was going to be a bad night when I put on the broadcast and saw Mike Milbury bloviating." - AP77
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Riverhead?
Riverhead is 90 frickin’ minutes from the Coli. Deer Park, sure, that’s reasonably close…. but Riverhead? Yikes.
I think the idea of some nearby housing and shopping is a way to have people want to come out and visit Hempstead for the day, take in a game, maybe stay the night and then take a day trip into the city. It’s not an unreasonable thought. Hemstead has been losing residents (about 5% lower population in the past ten years). You need something to attract folks to the area, and someplace for them to want to settle down if they really like it on Long Island.
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
on garth's goosebumps
too funny to not post…
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
by bob l on Dec 15, 2010 9:06 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
no quick fix
I agree – no quick fix. But Snow has to start deciding who can be a legitimate part of the future and clear up space for them. The players who won’t be there – start moving them as soon as there’s a chance. A few years ago there were some veterans like Satan (not my ex-wife, the other guy) who could have fetched something to draft or use as a trade chip and we lost them for nothing. Accumulate picks or legit prospects so that the next few years have a lot of improvement and maybe a playoff spot. The Islanders are going nowhere this year. (11 more wins, by the way, is my guess.) So if Tampa wants Rollie, make the move. If anyone wants Sim or Comeau or anyone who isn’t a future Islander, get something. The future core of the team actually looks real promising.
That’s the thing, who is a borderline guy that won’t be here that anyone wants. Look at it this way, if they’re not a part of our future, they sure as hell aren’t a part of 29 other NHL teams futures, either. Just a thought…
not necessarily true.
Lets say just for the sake of argument that all the goalie prospects pan out. The Isles owuld have to get rid of a few of them- because theres only a certain # of places in one organization for #1 goalies. That doesnt mean they are not valuable and would not be part of another teams future. You can make this case in a number of places. If the Isles dont pick a player as part of their particular future that doesnt mean the player is shit.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 15, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Serviceable NHLers
The Islanders lineup is not void of NHL talent and depth; it is struggling to find seasoned first and second line players. The potential is there, but not yet realized. There are players past (Bergenheim) and present (Comeau) that can be frustrating on the Islanders because they are required to do too much, but can play third line minutes and maybe even second line minutes if they had a stronger supporting cast (not other serviceable third liners).
Some teams may be willing to deal to get younger, cheaper or maybe add depth to their farm system or clear a logjam at the NHL level; so just because the Islanders are built on a lot of redundant third line parts, I agree they aren’t wothless. Just worth less as a bunch to the Islanders than to another team.
by Hockey1919 on Dec 15, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Amen
We have a logjam of youth, of 3rd liners, of depth players. I’m sure some cap-strapped teams could use a Comeau or will give a Parenteau a try. And, on the flipside, Boston didn’t need a Sturm cuz they have enough veterans and high salaries. Tell me the Devils wouldn’t want one of our cheap ‘spare parts’ to replace their $5mil, 4point Rolston.
"I think we got the better Lindros." - Fulla Maloney; "If I'm wrong about Kvasha, then off with my head" - Voldemort; {{lifts hand; several pencils, keyboards, and cell phones shatter}} - Darth Wang
counterpoint
If they’re spare parts, then we’re not going to get front-line assets for them. Even if you bundle up four complimentary players, you’re likely not getting back a great player unless someone is asleep at the switch. Would you give up a guy like Ryan Getzlaf for Comeau, Parenteau, Shremp, and a 3d-rounder? MAYBE – if you were convinced that you’d lose him to free agency anyway. The risk then is, will you get Smyth’d when you make that deal?
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
I doubt you’re going to get a first line player for spare parts (cough Thornton, Heatley), but you could get a least another few picks that become draft day fodder to move up to pick the player you want. You can also package potential like Schremp or Grabner for an over-priced vet that is hurting another teams cap space, but nothing but a budgetary impact on the Island. Or you make a mid-level deal like Toronto did to get Versteeg where you trade a few potential players for an established winger that is still relatively young. I think you find your best players in the draft, but there are still plenty of deals to be made if you have the cap room and a redundancy in skill set.
To clarify, I’m not necessarily advocating trading either Schremp or Grabner, but one of them would likely be in a deal to acquire an established winger. Would a team like the Flyers be willing to part with a Zherdev since he is underperforming for the price, or the equivalent player from a Western Conference team?
Were these GM's asleep at the watch?
7/03/2009 Colorado Avanche traded Ryan Smyth to the Los Angeles Kings for Kyle Quincey, Tom Preissing and a 5th round selection in 2010.
7/09/2006 In a three-way deal: Ottawa Senators traded Martin Havlat and Bryan Smolinski to the Chicago Blackhawks, San Jose Sharks traded Tom Preissing and Josh Hennessy to the Ottawa Senators (via Chicago), Chicago Blackhawks traded Mark Bell to the San Jose Sharks and traded Michal Barinka and a 2nd round selection in 2008 to the Ottawa Senators.
"I think we got the better Lindros." - Fulla Maloney; "If I'm wrong about Kvasha, then off with my head" - Voldemort; {{lifts hand; several pencils, keyboards, and cell phones shatter}} - Darth Wang
Here's another for Justin Williams
3/04/2009 In a three-way trade: Los Angeles Kings traded Patrick O’Sullivan and a 2nd round selection in 2009 to the Carolina Hurricanes for Justin Williams. Then Carolina traded Patrick O’Sullivan and a 2nd round selection in 2009 to the Edmonton Oilers for Erik Cole and a 5th round selection in 2009.
These trades do happen. If Schremp or Grabner score 20-25 this year, trading one of them with Hillen and pick should get us something comparable.
"I think we got the better Lindros." - Fulla Maloney; "If I'm wrong about Kvasha, then off with my head" - Voldemort; {{lifts hand; several pencils, keyboards, and cell phones shatter}} - Darth Wang
That is odd..
Because I see Grabner as an ALMOST THERE guy. I’d bet with 60 games under his belt he’s going to look a lot better than he did in his first 20 with the Isles.
Grabner should be kept as long as they can keep him. He is a guy they can slot in the top nine, on the PK and PP and get a good night’s work out of him for 82 games. He also has something that doesn’t grow on trees… he FLIES!
It’s trading players like Grabner who fall in your lap for high dollar temp fixes that will turn this thing sour. We just need a little more patience… this thing is gonna turn around once the defence gets healthier.
It’s not going to be great, but it will be more entertaining.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Good point
But they can’t ALL fit into the plan. We don’t have lineup room for an All-23 year old team. Someone must go this offseason, and some veteran must be obtained. Proper way to rebuild, this is.
Guess we’ll have to wait till game 82 to determine who should stay and who should leave…Comeau, PAP, Schremp, Grabs, Rhett, Martin, JJ, Nielsen…this list must be whittled down to 4 or 5 to go along with Moulson, JT, Ox, Bailey, and El Nino.
"I think we got the better Lindros." - Fulla Maloney; "If I'm wrong about Kvasha, then off with my head" - Voldemort; {{lifts hand; several pencils, keyboards, and cell phones shatter}} - Darth Wang
Who I'd keep
From that second group of players on that list… I don’t think Comeau and Joensuu will be in the Islanders’ plans after this season.
As for the other players, I believe that they all deserve some consideration, to one extent or another. It may be too early to make a decision on PAP or Rhett (and with Rahkshani, I think there’s more breathing room to make a decision). Matt Martin definitely fits in the future plans with the Isles. That leaves Nielsen, RSH and Grabner. All 3 are serviceable in their own way, but I think RSH may be the odd man out of the group.
Very well put,
Don’t trade RFA 20goal+ multi-tooled flying grabner for a part time player. We get rid of him, I want a 25goal+ scorer locked up for at least a few years. Grabner has a solid future here.
LighthouseHockey.com, where debates about Scrooge happen!
They do happen, but it's situational
When Smyth was dealt, he was underperforming his contract, looking injury-laden, and the Avs were dying to cut salary.
When Havlat was dealt, they were trying to fit all of their stars under the cap including — ha! — Dan(n)y Heatley.
So yes, they do happen, you just need the right situation to come about. Hell, even Wiz for a 3rd rounder is a bit of a head-scratcher. (Two months of Andy Sutton gets you a second, but a full year of Wiz is only a 3rd?)
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Rec'd like Evgeni Nabokov's earnings potential
That, 1919, is really the crux of things, I think.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
I rec'd too, but more like a vase in the Brady house - even after being told "no playing in the house"
This is a good point, and one I’ve never thought of. As a GM, do you trade 2 third liners for a 2nd and a 4th liner – or something along those lines?
You do if you need a second liner and have too many third liners. At a certain point you have to make moves based on need and organizational depth. Having the best eight goaltenders in the NHL isn’t going to help anymore than having the best two.
"no playing BALL in the house." *
I guess I meant that more from the GM that has the 2nd liner. Didn’t make that very clear.
Speaking of this,
has Comeau ever been on Schremp’s line for an extended time period yet, not just a handfull of games?
LighthouseHockey.com, where debates about Scrooge happen!
Has Schremp ever had an extended time, period?
I don’t remember how it worked down the stretch last year (I can look it up), but right now may be the longest stretch. I’d like to see more RSH-Comeau, without Sim as the extra guy (even though Sim has worked his ass off lately).
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Ya hear that Jack?? Give me this on thursday:
mmo-jt-pap
bc-rsh-mg
mma-fn-jj
sim-zeke-gillies
"I think we got the better Lindros." - Fulla Maloney; "If I'm wrong about Kvasha, then off with my head" - Voldemort; {{lifts hand; several pencils, keyboards, and cell phones shatter}} - Darth Wang
Switch MG and MMA
because both of those lines have looked solid. I think MMA was on with BC and RSH on their 3 point nights, and the non-descript European country line has looked good in more than one game.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Why
I’d rather see more Sim without Schremp because Sim does work his ass off.
Yes, Schremp is definitely preventing Sim from being more effective.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
by Dominik on Dec 15, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you made me choke on my dinner
"I knew this was going to be a bad night when I put on the broadcast and saw Mike Milbury bloviating." - AP77
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Ozzy and Dom,
…don’t you remember, we discussed this during the summer ;-)
(Check the first few comments and my lengthy one there in case you’d like to see last year’s results of Comeau with Schremp and Sim in particular.)
In short, Schremp played about half of his time last season with Comeau and they did well together indeed, particularly in combination with Sim.
oy, I hate going back and reading my old articles. I even try not to do it with my own blog.
"I knew this was going to be a bad night when I put on the broadcast and saw Mike Milbury bloviating." - AP77
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Ah-ha!
Thanks for digging that up. I remember the conversation now; the memory had been replaced with repeated beatings this season.
Interesting. Even before seeing that, I favor more Schremp-Comeau time at present.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Thanks for the reminder. Forgot all about it.
There is hope for Comeau!
LighthouseHockey.com, where debates about Scrooge happen!
You're onto something...
… and if the Isles had a PR department they’d be sellin’ it.
This team is three years away from having a good portion of it’s core in it’s athletic prime. I’d have rather seen that core develop through proper channels and have the isles fill the roster with serviceable vets and a steady stream of maturing prospects… but they chose to do their development the old fashioned way… STUPIDLY.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Look
at Bergenheim and Tambellini. They found teams willing to take a chance. Thompson too. You just never know what another team sees as valuable. Comeau is useless to most of us, but some team may see something they can use.
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 10:33 AM EST reply actions
hes "useless" to us cuz we wanted him to become a top six forward
but to another team they might just be happy to take a bottom 6 penalty killer with some offensive upside
I'm shocked
Shocked that Garth actually allowed those questions to be asked, and seemed to frankly answer the ones that HE has a say in. While I’m still miffed (word?) about Trots and Jank being let go, I still have faith in Ken Morrow and the rest of the group.
Next year, I believe 5 of our perennial top 6 will start the season (MM-JT-KO, NN-JB). I believe the 6th must be a veteran scorer. Garth MUST obtain this in the summer. So, that being the top 2 lines, we have extra potential 2nd liners in Grabner, Schremp, Comeau. Where do they fit? Do they fit on the 3rd line next year with Nielsen? Or do Martin and Rakhshani belong there? Parenteau? The logjam cannot last, so this season is when we find out who fits and who goes to a team that can give us that ‘Sturm’ or ‘Recchi’ or ‘Gagne’ or ‘Justin Williams’.
Garth didn’t get a ‘Recchi’ this past summer, so let me say this loud and clear:
If you have to OVERPAY a veteran scorer to come here DO IT
"I think we got the better Lindros." - Fulla Maloney; "If I'm wrong about Kvasha, then off with my head" - Voldemort; {{lifts hand; several pencils, keyboards, and cell phones shatter}} - Darth Wang
Next year
If you put MM-JT-KO together, then Frans must center the 2nd line maybe with Grabner and Nino. 3rd line might be Bailey with Schremp and Martin. 4th line could have Joensuu, Rakhshani and Konopka. But if you sign a vet winger, you almost have to put him with Tavares. So now you get : Moulson-tavares-VET; Bailey-Grabner-Okposo; Frans-Rakhshani-Parenteau- Konopka-Joensuu-Martin. No Comeau, no Sim,
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
JANKS too big for his britches???
looks as if he was getting too much attention, too big for Garths ego to absorb so he was fired…This is just speculation, of course
WANG should throw us a bone??
maybe hes not saying anything because the prospects look grim and hes looking outside Long island…Hes not gonna throw us a bone if the bones not what we are hoping for…I hope Im wrong
Could be
But I think his history — at least as far as the LHP went — was to hold back until there is a groundswell of demand for info, or until there was an external factor requiring action. It’s getting late quickly, but we’re probably not at the point of ultimatums yet.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
If LHH
is not a sign of a groundswell of demand i don’t know what is. I think all of us here would love a face-to-face with Charlie to get some answers.
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Cap
He was not asked why he did not spend above the cap floor to secure FAs in the spring/summer. That does not cost prospects just money which he claims he has to spend. Inspite of reports that he made offers etc and players declined to come – I don’t think you will find one hockey proffessional who thinks that Wang doesn’t have tight purse strings. Point #2,, Snow got into the importance of going to the net. He mentioned Moulson, Martin and Sim as people who do that. Back to my rant, Schremp PAP and Grabner do not drive the net. In fact in the Nashville game the Defense particularly Mac were at the net while the forwards took shots from the perimeter.
DO NOT
want Schremp, PAP and Grabner crashing the net. Want the biggest bodies we have in front restricting the view of the goalie while the aforementioned “sniper”?? shoot the puck. This has been my rant almost from the drop of the puck this year. We have NO NET PRESENCE!! Only lately has anyone been driving the net. And Comeau should spend every moment in the offensive zone in front of the goalie picking up scraps for goals. We should bring in Mark Parrish to teach these guys the fine art of deflecting the puck and screening goalies. he might have been the best we ever had at this.
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Martin St. Loius will crash the net. Pat LaFontaine would crash the net. No matter what size you are you have to go into the scoring areas to get goals. Should they be anchored in front of the net? Maybe not, but they can’t skate circles around the periphery hoping they have a chance to unleash a shot. One of Grabner’s best play this seasoned involved him heading to the net on a breakaway.
very true
Theo would crash the net. Its not only about size.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 15, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
parise crashes the net, that’s why he’s awesome, dirty goals + pretty goals = stud
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
Small players can use their quickness in the crease to reach the puck and are harder at times for big defensemen to tie up. Would be nice to see a big body in front of the net providing a screen as well, but each forward on this roster needs to find a way to compete down low.
Agree
I stand corrected…Tavares does some of his best work out front, too.
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
parise crashes the net, that’s why he’s awesome
And Okposo spent the summer trying to be more like Parise … {cries}
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Yup.
They are actually good friends and spend their summers working out together.
Allt he more reason he would be soooooo perfffecttttt for this team {cries}
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 15, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
We really need to stop making each other cry.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
{sniff} its true.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 15, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Butchie said he would get in and out of there as quickly as possible.
He’d dart in front of the net and then leave before getting blasted by a dman 40lbs heavier than he was.
thats because Butchie had hockey smarts. Piles of em.
So what if he cannot get names right that he has said and heard 25000 times? His mind worked in the most important way possible at the most important possible time.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 15, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
For more than one organization, too!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 15, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
That was pretty funny
Butchie talking about the front of the net. Something like: “No, I tried not to spend much time there.”
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Mark Parrish
I think Garth Snow himself even mentioned this about Mark Parrish. Not that I particularly care to go through 20 minutes worth of interview on the video to find where Garth said this.
Likewise I don’t want to go back through it, but I’m pretty sure only the fan mentioned Parrish going to the net, and Snow used it to talk about video or some such coaching thing.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
You are what you think about
if our GM is expecting players to reject him due to the arena, then hes lost before he even got started…If hes a good salesman he could get players to look at the BIG picture…I agre that players would rather play in a nice place and on a winning team but our “Garths excuses are his own”…make it happen and stop with the bullshit
I really don"t
think it has anything to do with the arena. It has to do with the perception of this team and its ownership. Right now, this team is BAD, and the management is uncertain of where this team is headed. Not a recipe for stability that most FA’s want.
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Thats why our GM needs to pull out all the stops
he should be acting as if hes excited and he has a plan and sell, sell, sell!!Grab the FAQ’s by the jugular and make them think about the BIG PICTURE…I wish I was the GM…Id be selling the FA’s the dream as well as the fans…
FA'S
Do not want dreams…they want to play for a winner, play for nice money, and know where they are going to be playing next year. it must be hard to sell anyone that is looking for stability and a championship on coming to Long Island!!
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Thats what salesman do, thats what GM is, a salesman...
A good honest salesman can get into the minds of people and make them do something they would normally NOT do…If you sell the dream and the person is actually sold he doesnt think its a dream its a forgone conclusion…I have excepted the excuses for too long its time to stop making excuses and to step up to the plate and make things happen…If all we have is excuses then we might as well forget it
and our GM and owner should be doing all they can to change the perception that theres nothing but doom & gloom around this org….Enoughs, enough!!!
AGREED (TOTALLY)
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
he should be acting as if hes excited and he has a plan and sell, sell, sell!!Grab the FAQ’s by the jugular and make them think about the BIG PICTURE
I suppose he’s done that with some — at least Paul Martin’s agent certainly said so. But if you’re Paul Martin or Dan Hamhuis and you have multiple high-dollar offers on the table July 1, and consensus Cup contenders in each conference are among them, who do you take the money from?
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
we are a young team that competes at a very high level. There’s nothing better than when you have a situation where you get to the point of winning and competing for a Stanley Cup but you’ve been through the lean years, through the tough times, it makes it that much more rewarding.
This is why I watched the replay Monday night, even after reading the recap! Also, because I love hockey & the Islanders!
I haven’t seen enough of the fire in the past ten games at least. You can say that they compete, but my eyes are telling me a different story. If the puck is 50/50 they aren’t getting it, if someone is taking a hit and being moved off the puck it has been the Islander, if someone’s feet isn’t moving to an open space or taking a man it has been an Islander. If 1 win in 20 doesn’t breed more deperation on every play I don’t know what will.
I do agree with the sticking through the think of it so you can enjoy the rewards, I just can’t be a bandwagon fan, but the effort that was there early in the season, has not been as apparent.
I Disagree
…generally speaking, that is. I think they are trying but aren’t good enough. There are a few passengers but mostly trying hard.
ON A TEAM
that has lost 20 of 21 there better not be ANY F’ing passengers. And if the coach sees this then loss of ice time is mandatory.
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
60 minutes versus 50 minutes
Two to three minutes each period they look lost and stop driving the play. For a team this limited to generate offense, 9 minutes a game is way too much time to take off. The players themselves have said as much and are seeing it too.
In the post game recaps we can usually pick out one or two players that looked good that night. IT isn’t enough, you need everyone on all cylinders if you are going to win. Not just one memorable shift.
You mean like Moulson does every night?
Or what JT tries to do, but isn’t fast enough yet to get his point across doing? Lead by example is definitely shown by a number of players and I do think KO will spark us a little, but KO isn’t going to make this team play like something it is not, and it is not a 70pts team, might/probably not even be a 60pts team. And that should tell you something right there about the rest of the season.
LighthouseHockey.com, where debates about Scrooge happen!
Politely disagree
I think KO’s style of play WILL get the point across that MMo and JT are trying to convey. And when that line starts wheeling and dealing, and we actually have a full line without Bridgeport inserts, then we will win some games. Hard work that leads to wins spreads confidence like west nile…
"I think we got the better Lindros." - Fulla Maloney; "If I'm wrong about Kvasha, then off with my head" - Voldemort; {{lifts hand; several pencils, keyboards, and cell phones shatter}} - Darth Wang
You're Right About That
More accurate, I guess would be to say that most players are skating hard for most of the game. I still like watching my team play the game I love – even if I’m rooting for changes in some combination of effort, decision making, personnel, etc. at the same time. To me, the bottom line is they don’t have the horses. Even if they galloped at full speed for the entire race, they wouldn’t finish in the money.
That's probably why they DON'T gallop for 60 now...
…but probably will when KO returns
"I think we got the better Lindros." - Fulla Maloney; "If I'm wrong about Kvasha, then off with my head" - Voldemort; {{lifts hand; several pencils, keyboards, and cell phones shatter}} - Darth Wang
I think it's a classic "fragile" team right now
Their first periods are really disturbing lately, but by and large I think we’ve seen effort — then shattered by deflation that comes with falling behind again. Big area there where so many of them are kids, and they’re mired in a long losing streak, so the first sign of bad fortune — “What? We’re down 2-0 on a crappy call and a misplay from our goalie? Here we go again…” takes them out of it for those dry spells each game.
And for a team that’s so thin already, they can’t afford that, so it repeats and feeds itself.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Passion versus Stupidity
That was a problem area I had with Gordon, some times the players did the “smart” thing when they should have done the ass kicking thing. I haven’t seen an Islander take a flagrant call out of frustration. Tey get so many marginal calls againts it would be nice to earn one.
Maybe they fragility thing is the key. Sometimes you have to get so pissed off at losing that you’re willing to do something you normally wouldn’t. The problem is the margin of error is so tight after 21 games they don’t seem to have that leeway. It just doesn’t seem like any team hates to play the Islanders. Not to make an unfair comparison, but JT and Crosby come out of the same polished Canadian Junior media machine. However, every once in a while Crosby will do the dirtiest thing imaginable on the ice and be visibly angry.
True, let’s start to see more from everyone, let’s see them scrap a little bit more. This losing streak isn’t going to be ended by thinking about it, but by getting a few ugly goals and maybe a fight filled game that has no flow and high emotions.
I wouldn’ t mind seeing some one rip him a new one the next time he boneheads a play like that. This team unity crap works when everyone is performing. If someone isn’t carrying their weight the hammer has to come down and it has to be from within the locker room. I don’t recall Potvin being universally loved.
We have no capt, no leadership
If this team had a capt, present, it would behoove them to “rip him a new one”, inside the locker room…DP isnt focused and needs to practice meditation and get focused
I respectfully disagree with you. The Isles have been in over their head and playing above their pay grade on a paper thin team. Our lead D and a a significant young player (AMac) go out along with a playmaker and we drop 20 out of 21? Fragile teams can still have productive nights. This team can’t close a game because they don’t have the firepower to do so.
This team needs more from their leadership…which Garth has failed to get because he has sold the fans a faulty bill of goods. He goes on thinking that he can find the miraculous playmaker to join what could and should be an elite sniper (JT) in the NHL through other people’s trash. I’m not saying that they aren’t good but I am saying that they should not be on a line with JT. Grabner and Shremp are great pickups for this team right now but a proven veteran winger could have been a lot better for JT in his second year. I know that a lot of second year stars struggle and that this is an unfortunate circumstance. However, are you going to stick by Garth when he fails to bring in a veteran winger to help out JT for the next season? Unfortunately that is the likely scenario given that we have 2 years of experience with Garth’s unwillingness to make the necessary moves to help out his promising young player.
Since I am ranting let me go on to say that I found it very hard to swallow Garth telling the fan base to be patient in the same interview he stated “my hands have never been tied.” First of all lying to the public is not a good way to win over a fan base after you have done so many things to remove the team from the fan base (ie. China spring training, exiling fans from training camp practices, removing credentials from a old employee/blogger… most of us have been fans since the team was born or at least since 93. If you can’t use us as a model of patience then I am not sure what model you are using. Perhaps the Cubs fans? I would say Rangers or Leafs but I believe their “patience” to be a miscategorized form of slightly deviated mental capacity equaling that of a lemming.
If I hear Garth’s words correctly in that he is not willing to part with any core players or draft picks to help build this team then I am left to guess that he is NOT going to get the veteran winger that we need through a trade. That leaves us at free agency where Garth has demonstrated that he is not going to overpay a player but yet he says that our facility is crap and no FA’s are willing to stay in the Holiday Inn when they can stay in a Hilton for the same price. If I am JT and I am taking in all of these things then my only conclusion can be that I should wait for some prospects that are currently in high school to develop so that some day I may have a suitable top line play maker. Until that time I guess he is stuck with other team’s leftovers.
Now with all of this being said I love Garth’s ability to draft and I have plenty of faith that we will one day be a playoff team once again. Right now it is hard to see what motivation JT would have to sign a long term deal and why Garth can’t go out to get a veteran winger through FA or trade. In addition to that (this is the PR person in me) I resent the fact that he continues to tell the fans that he is free to make any deal he pleases and simply does nothing to help out our number 1 draft pick. It pisses me off beyond any measurable means. If I wanted to be kicked in the balls over and over I would go to a number of clubs in Manhatten and pay for that service instead of continuing my allegiance to a team I have loved since I’ve been born.
No pain, no palm; no thorns, no throne; no gall, no glory; no cross, no crown. -- William Penn
by metalcoconut on Dec 15, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
To rebuild a team, you need to be patient
where they need to be aggressive is in a post-Lighthouse plan for the future. The silence is maddening.
I am patient and I’m not saying to go out and try to buy every player available. I’m saying that there is no incentive for JT to stay at this point. After listening to Snow it does not sound as if he is willing to help get any players to help there either. What I am saying is that his words are not matching his actions and it is beginning to piss me off.
No pain, no palm; no thorns, no throne; no gall, no glory; no cross, no crown. -- William Penn
by metalcoconut on Dec 16, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
I’m surprised by how much people think about JT’s incentive to stay. I think it’s a valid concern, but it’s just not one that’s pressing right now. By the time he has the freedom to do so, it will be painfully clear whether or not this thing is heading in the right direction or not.
Even in 2012, when his first RFA rights will come up, I’ll be more concerned about whether it’s clear how much of a long-term value he is (as in: Do they try to go long with him, or do a short RFA deal and then see how he’s come along?) rather than whether he will deem the club worthy 3-4 years later (pending CBA) when he’s eligible to flee.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
exactly
JT’s not in a position to pull a Kessel on the Isles next year. The Isles aren’t cap-strapped the way the Bruins were and Kessel wasn’t the face of the franchise as JT is. If JT were to refuse to sign a deal before he became an RFA, the Isles would simply match whatever offer sheet was tendered. JT will have ruined his reputation and would have to stay on with the Isles until 2016 anyway.
The concern is not about him bolting but about his proper development. Garth knows that and is doing what he can…which unfortunately at the moment is not very much.
Fair points
My opinion on the elusive veteran winger issue: Again, I’m sure opportunities have been missed, but I just haven’t seen the home run who is out there waiting to solve our problems. Stempniak is another limited middle-six guy, Frolov is obviously flaky, Kovalchuk requires franchise-crippling decisions, Gagne required removing a NTC to take his injury-laden body to Yzerman’s nest for a year before he returns to Philly, Tanguay went back to where he’s familiar, Ponikarovsky waited for the Ilya shoe to drop and flew to L.A.
Vertseeg (who I don’t like, but I’m open to arguments) may have been a missed opportunity, but again, to me it’s hugely important to avoid the MM mistakes of giving up on prospects too early via trade, signing guys who are good but not great (Yashin) to giant deals just to get someone here.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Clark has nice jam, if it's vet leaders we're looking for
Elias would be interesting (and pricey), but would Lou just hand him over to a rival?
Kovalev, I guess would be fun for a rental just to make some fun music with JT, but talk about strange environments: Kovalev, unhappy being banished to the Island, showing JT it’s okay not to backcheck. I don’t know.
Anyway, in terms of the guys above, I was more speaking of who was available last summer. I haven’t looked into next summer yet, because every time I do half the candidates end up re-signing anyway.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
was thinking more of a trade now
There was that report that Garth is looking for a veteran winger for JT. Elias would be ideal. Great skilled playmaker, great leadership and mentoring and under contract for several years. Would be worth every penny. I think Lou migh be talked into it for the #31 overall pick. Real difficulty would be getting Elias to accept. If we could get him, I’d be happy to forget about a mega deal for a player like Parise or Richards and just pick Larsson. But I really think JT needs his Marty St. Louis.
Aggressive Mistakes vs. Lazy Mistakes
I usually can tolerate and support aggressive mistakes (tells DP to sit down because he’s a GOALIE), but I feel like a alot of what we are seeing are lazy or tentative mistakes. At least if you are playing aggressively (but within your system/position), you have the opportunity to string together a couple of successes on the agressive shifts. When you lay back and are tentative, the play is coming at you and you are prone to have more mistakes.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
At least we have a number of answers now. Happy about that, and garth obviously has good reasoning for everything.
Just hope Wang would at least step out and say he is exploring multiple long island/5 boroughs destinations to move the team to for our mental security. That one little speech, telling us he’s keeping the team in the same general location and is looking hard to find something to be ready by 2015 is all we want!
LighthouseHockey.com, where debates about Scrooge happen!
Sorry if Im being a neg
but Garths was prepped and he didnt allow follow ups…as soon as he said, “thanks for having me”, i turned it off….I have no time for Kool Aide anymore
That's garth, you think the GM can or will tell us about wang's dealings for a new stadium?
Wang would and should be the best guy for that. If garth knows anything about Wang searching to build a new stadium, I’d suspect garth only knows the basics about it if he isn’t sheltered from it.
LighthouseHockey.com, where debates about Scrooge happen!
^This^
Was my first thought. He wasn’t really pressed I’m sure. This is PR/Media 101, control the situation and direct the conversation to match the current state of affairs. Really, he answered nothing, but at least he finally spoke. But still folks, let’s realize he spoke and said little.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Confused
What exactly did you want to hear??
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
I can tell you are not tired of the Kool AIde, yet…I am…I have been a supporter of Wangs dream of the LHP and took days off of work to support his vision…At the very least I want transparency regarding the arena situation…If this team leaves in 2015 after we suffered with these players for so long only to miss out on the rewards it would be fucked up…He should be more vocal to the fans to show us he hasn’t abandoned us…We were there for him…I sent out emails, made phone calls…I wrote a long comment to say why I feel the LHP is good for LI…Many Isles fans did the same…Feels like he used the Isles fanbase for his own good but now hes not saying, shit???BULLSHIT!
Why
get upset with Garth Snow?? Sounds like your beef is with Charlie. And I support your beef totally. But, what exactly did you expect to hear from Garth Snow about a new arena??
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
If he took a real interview
without prepared answers and allowed follow up questions Id give him some of my time…I have listened and rallied with my pop poms for yrs…Now Im done…Give me a real, candid interview…Sorry, dude, when you are told what the questions are before hand, thats bullshit….
It's GM-speak 101
I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t expect much more even from a Burkiean blowhard in this situation. They’re going to tell you what the plan is, tell you where/why they think things aren’t working, and pledge that they won’t do something stupid to band-aid it.
That, and they might throw a “we need to believe/work harder/look deep within ourselves” if they’re feeling all zen about it.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
I think he can afford a zen coach
Actually, your questions bring up an interesting topic: If you could ask Garth Snow ONE question, what would it be?
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Who are the main UFA you want to offer multi-year deals to this offseason?
LighthouseHockey.com, where debates about Scrooge happen!
Heh, of course that’s one he can’t even legally answer even if he wanted to!
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Not about
What I WANTED to hear. It’s just that I didn’t hear anything that continued silence wouldn’t have also told me. I would like to hear that we’ve acquired Backstrom and Ovechkin for Gervais and Comeau, but I’d settle for “Jankowski no longer fit into the organizational plans and we are going to have a different scouting structure going forward and Scott Gordon will help to facilitate some of those ops”. But what we heard mostly was GS saying out loud that the media policy is to keep quiet…which was a known commodity.
In most media scrums, people will press and ask follow up questions that at least annoy the speaker and get them to betray what they are or are not saying. The Islanders control so this doesn’t happen.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
He gave an interview and told us he doesnt do interviews, lol
Look at what we get, Dork Carlin and Butchie in place of Jaffe…Why is Jaffe gone when the fans loved him??tell us that, mofo?
Bababouy hopes the Islanders don't move
As a lifelong Islanders fan, Bababouy is so sad to see how bad things have been lately. The Isles should stay on LI and rebuild through the draft. That’s what the Avalanche have done and they are competitive again. Stay young, do not go to the top of the salary cap, and build a new arena in Hempstead already !
You know who I'd like to see an Islander: Kaberle
Problem is Burke is a swindler (in a good way) and would probably rob Snow blind.
See Kessel for two first and a second.
His best deals have been with Calgary, but that is a team that acquired Jokinen twice in less than a year.
Kaberle has a NTC
So he’d have to really want to come, which is of course unlikely. But man he would have eased the Streit pain (but again…at what cost).
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
True. And why jump from the Titanic to the Hindenburg?
He’s going to be an FA at the end of year, so maybe Garth can work out something then. He’s only 32. 3-4 year deal would be nice. Maybe 5.
Bill Torrey, The Architect
Time: 1972
Torrey was prepared to sacrifice the first few years, willing to lose with youth rather than get by-but not really go anywhere-with weathered (and withered) veterans.
We knew what we were attempting to do, that it was going to be a long pull, but for those of us who were in the hockey end of it, we had a good idea of what the drafts in the future were going to be like. They were loaded, stacked with talent.
First Islander Captain, Ed Westfall: There were nights where, no matter how well we played, we knew we couldn’t win.
Torrey knew the first priority for his team was to hire a coach who could instill confidence in the players, teach them a system that worked and develop a defense. He had in mind Al Arbour.
With Arbour the team cut their goals against by 100, the biggest improvement in league history. They even had a star, a player around whom to build a winner. Dennis Potvin.
After only four seasons in the NHL, the NY Islanders had gone from dingy door-mat to a respected rival. And it was only the beginning.
So where are we now in the Wang/Snow rebuild?
1. We don’t have any weathered (and withered) veterans, except for Doug Weight, the current captain, as was Westfall back then.
2. No matter how this team plays the loses keep coming.
3. The coach that WILL take this team to the next level is not here yet; who he will be is still uncertain. One thing is clear goals against MUST be decreased.
4. We have a star (or a couple) John Tavares, Kyle Okposo to build a winner around.
So for now we must stay patient, this team has a lot more talent than the 1972-74 Islander teams had. It worked out just fine back then, it will again.
I hope you're right about the coaching situation
Im worried we will stick with Cap
I think you're wrong...
… they got Scott gordon because he was willing to take on the challenges presented by the current state and the future budget/lack of UFA success. The team is still in that state, but they are freed from a coach who needed more talent of a certain ilk. I believe Cappy can guide this team through the dark period ahead (another 2 years… and that’s how long he should be extended) I don’t think there is a quick fix behind the bench available… and he will help a young team mature. In that time we’ll find out if he can win, and then we’ll know more about the next level.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
I can appreciate that but I hope you're wrong
we need an NHL coach, IMHO
Would a veteran, proven coach be better...
YES. But you’d have to give him many dollars for 3-5 years because it would be insane for a coach to allow the next two years to dictate his salary structure. Anything this team achieves in the next two years above NHL .500 should be celebrated heartily. That success would come ONLY with an 82 game clean medical report, as they are just too damn thin at every position… at some they are invisible.
I’m probably in the minority here, but except for a few players in a few periods, the effort has been there… and there are definitely signs of future talent… but there just isn’t enough, and there won’t be next year either. THere are just too many players that shouldn’t even be in the NHL in key roles on this team.
Give it time though… and either you’ll have a coach/player relationship like we all wish we had with Gordon (THAT WE DID HAVE WITH NOLAN) or we’ll have better players (through maturity) dictating that they are not being challenged enough by their coach… and that is highly possible as well. I’m one who believes in the latter.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Cappy looks like an Italian Ted Nolan behind the bench
seriously tho, I loved Nolan and was surprised when everyone bailed on him after the 1 good season he had, making the playoffs…I liked how he showed respect to Al Arbour by giving him the 1500th game to coach..He also called him before the playoff to get some advice…I thought Nolan was a class act…Wish he stayed but why hasnt anyone else signed him is the question???I wonder if the stories hold any merit
My personal belief...
The players didn’t bail on him… they bailed on Wang.
What Ted Nolan did was make 3 players more valuable than they were the year before.
Blake… wasn’t going to get paid by the Isles… and they were correct in not countering the TML offer.
Poti… really? Poti was lost before, and is lost again.
Kozlov… all he did in Washington was show OV were to get the best lap dances…
They did retain Witt, and Gordon pissed on him… (Yes, his skills were hanging by a thread, but Gordon needed him gone)
They did have Bill Guerin last through the Nolan Era… and Gordon pissed on him as well.
I’d even venture to bet that Nolan’s departure started the day that Niel Smith left. Because of this.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Completely OT, but made me laugh: Favre Fanfare
A lot of you guys during the Monday game thread were complaining about how much the NFL broadcast/Fox (?) was talking about Favre, lionizing him.
In that context, this headline made me spit coffee: Sadly, Favre streak ends with little fanfare.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Favre who???
Im tired of seeing his homeless scruffy wrangler wearing jeans face on tv. My advise to him: go away no one cares about your steak or anything else you have to say!
by Russel Ginart on Dec 15, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
AMEN!!!!!!
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
high-larious
Though I love the Wrangler pick-up football commerical for one reason – when he tosses the pass that the guy catches as he’s diving into a huge puddle, I always yell, “And it’s INTERCEPTED! That will ice the game!”
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
Cizikas makes final cut
Him and CDH will be on the final Team Canada Junior Roster
There is a lighthouse at the end of the tunnel.
SWEET
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
And that looks like four
With Nino and Brock Nelson making it in Sweden and the USA respectively.
At least we will have the WJCs.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 15, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
lmao, yes.
I didnt even look at team Sweden, I dont think I will know anyone on their team lol.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 15, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Larsson, we may know him in June
"I think we got the better Lindros." - Fulla Maloney; "If I'm wrong about Kvasha, then off with my head" - Voldemort; {{lifts hand; several pencils, keyboards, and cell phones shatter}} - Darth Wang
It's like Benedict Arnold all over again...
…if benny boy was a giant teenage swede.
LighthouseHockey.com, where debates about Scrooge happen!
The future's so bright I've gotta wear shades!!!!
What part of REBUILD don't you understand??
by upstateislesfan on Dec 15, 2010 2:11 PM EST reply actions
Do you wear your sunglasses at night?
If you do, don’t wear them while driving…………..bad bad bad BAD things happen if you do.
LighthouseHockey.com, where debates about Scrooge happen!
Next spring
We will all be talking about the FAs and who Snow will get. Well what evidence from the interview would give anyone confidence that he will go into the market for real talent, which doesn’t cost prospects – it costs money. Without serious change in attitude by Wang about the arena, the fans, spending $s to improve the team, new mgmt, new coach , we will have very little to cheer for except a few new piks, who might see NHL action immediately and the development of our present piks and prospects. We still will have a lot of non play-off type vets from this year who will be a year older but not better. I agree it doesn’t pay to lose prospects for a good vet at this point. But if not next spring then when? To avoid confussion I mean trading some of our underperforming players who are not part of the solution this year or any year.not prospects
agreed
Like i said above, If you have to OVERPAY a veteran scorer to come here DO IT. You SHOULD be overpaid to put up with this shit. If Wang and Garth don’t DO IT and come up empty, or with a broken has-been who’s never won a cup, then Tavares and Co. will have to learn the hard way how to win, slowly and by themselves At least the upcoming RFA signings will give us a clue as to Wang’s World of commitment.
"I think we got the better Lindros." - Fulla Maloney; "If I'm wrong about Kvasha, then off with my head" - Voldemort; {{lifts hand; several pencils, keyboards, and cell phones shatter}} - Darth Wang
That is the problem in a nut shell.
Garth tries to overpay most top UFA in the offseason. No one bites and we end up with either under the radar players(parenteau, moulson, ), vets on the decline(eaton, weight,), and botto-tier players(sim, jurcina,) on the decline to fill out our salary floor roster. that is why making a blockbuster trade to bring in a/some top-tier d-men or forwards locked up for a number of years makes all the sense in the world. Garth TRIES HARD to sign good/great free agents in the offseason to no avail, so what do we have left to do if this continues? Progress through one of the slowest rebuilds of all-time?
LighthouseHockey.com, where debates about Scrooge happen!
He seemed emphatic about not trading top picks
Would he make an exception for a Parise? I am sure if Lou made an offer, he’d give it serious consideration. But as a general rule, it is certainly the right way to go. The Milbury / Burkie big deal strategy is the way to hockey hell.
you could always find examples of it working
See Roy, Patrick, Colorado. For that matter, the Lindros trade – though it cost Forsberg, it also helped push the Flyers into Cup contention for several years… he really was almost worth what they gave up. (I don’t remember what the Rangers offered Quebec, or whether it was a better package. I do remember that Quebec traded Lindros to BOTH teams and an arbitrator had to sort out which of the trades was going to happen.)
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
PS
YES… that was the draft the Isles took Scott LaChance ahead of Forsberg, Kovalev, Matvichuk, Naslund, Rucinsky, Glen Murray, AND Ray Whitney… at least they found Ziggy in the second round.
PPS- Brian Rolston was the 11th pick of that draft. It was 19 years ago. We want him for $5 million per for three years… why, exactly?
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
PPPPP (etc) S
I should have just done some googling. Get what the Rags offered Quebec:
Doug Weight
Alexei Kovalev
Tony Amonte
John Vanbeisbrouck (the still-good one)
’93 #1 pick (eventually Niklas Sundstrom)
’94 #1 pick (eventually Dan Cloutier)
’95 #1 pick (eventually pfffffft, but you could have gotten Marc Savard, Sami Kapanen, Michael Handzus, or Jochen Hecht)
That is a helluva outrageous deal… without considering the $12 million that went with it. Do the Oilers East manage the win in ’94 with Lindros, but without Esa Tikkanen (traded for Weight), Stephane Matteau (traded for Amonte), or Kovalev?
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
If memory serves
one of those teams got a Cup and the other did not. And I don’t think that was a coincidence. As a general rule, a GM should NEVER trade for a player who wants out of refuses to play. They are likely as not bad character guys who will never take your team anywhere.
are you referring to Patrick Roy?
=P
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
no
Lindros and also by implication Yashin. I do worry about what kind of guy Couturier’s going to be. His agent is already limiting media contact. Wonder if he’s team guy.
Yashin?
I hate to say it, but he and Peca improved the team. The Isles were much better with them than in the preceding seasons. He Whose Name is Removed from Consideration paid too much to get Yashin (and then paid him too much to boot)… but the team was immediately improved. One could make a strong case that the team would be better now if he were still on it.
If you’re talking about malcontents, then yeah, I’m fully on board. Guys who want out of a bad situation are a different story.
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
Yash and Lindros both improved their teams somewhat in the short term but ruined them in the long term. Neither was a winner.
If the Flyers get a goalie at some point in the 90s, instead of relying on Hextall, Snow, Boucher, Beezer, among others, they probably win the cup at some point.
"I knew this was going to be a bad night when I put on the broadcast and saw Mike Milbury bloviating." - AP77
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
To me, you either win or you don't
and winning the Cup is too much of a superhuman feat for me to assume that any team would have won it if… No matter how you slice it, the team that got Lindros couldn’t get it done while the team that got Foppa did.
Bobby Clarke was still pissed Parent won the Conn Smythe so he had to prove you could win with all centers and no goaltenders.
by Hockey1919 on Dec 17, 2010 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No brainer
Parise would be a no brainer. Garth should be fired if he didnt acquire Parise. He should have been an Islander from the beginning!! Effin Milbury!
have to look at a player's fit with your organization
Kovi would not have been a good fit, but Parise might be.
Definitely not a "no brainer"
What is Zach worth? Coming off an injury, and only having him as an RFA next year. He’s definitely not worth a signing sheet offer at his pay grade. If Lou wanted to shed some salary we’d have to look at the deal, and you’d have to be sure that his agent was willing to comitt to a few more years past the RFA signing over the summer.
Two first rounders is too much… especially when, much like Kessel, he won’t push you above top ten pick status for the first one (most likely). there is no way I’d give up next year’s first rounder for him… NO WAY. Zach is a great player, but there is no way I’d give up a #1 at the podium and indentured servitude for 6 years to have Zach ‘gimpy’ Parise for a year and a half.
If Lou and Garth make a deal I promise you it will only be ten minutes before the REALISTS come out with how the Isles were FLEECED again.
I hope that Garth is smarter than that… he has shown it in the past. Zach Parise is not going to save this franchise and I hope they don’t give away three players who may help more than one short timer. If lou would take eaton straight up I’d think that would be a good deal. He sheds $3M in salary and gets a worthless defenseman for a LW that probably will be worthless for us… and then play one year under his indentured servitude. Stop over valueing Zach Parise because Milbury screwed the pooch.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
a trade for Parise only makes sense if he signs a long term deal as a condition of the trade
and of course you have a team of medical experts look him over but he is a bonafide superstar and I don’t know how you can overvalue him.
What would you give up...
Before June Lou has to ask for the #1. NO WAY. Your two conditions make this unrealistic.
After July 1 the Isles would have to pay way to much to register an offer. If Lou still wants to make a deal for next year’s first rounder and a prospect for his signing rights… or sign and trade like Wiz… you’re only going to get him for a year. The Islanders are not going to give him $8M for 5 years next year… it’s just not happening… especially knowing that he now has a history of knee issues… it would be monumentally STUPID.
They are building a stable of cheap prospects with nice upside. They have had two real nice middle six players fall in their laps through the waiver wire. If they can’t get a UFA next year they will have even more prospects maturing to the point of NHL start-dom if not stardom.
PLUS… once this team gets better defensively, it will get better offensively… without adding ONE piece. It’s just going to take patience. If they get Streit back 100% next year, resign Wiz and Marty (Marty stays healthy) and we see a little Katic and CDH next year you will see a great improvement over this year. Same coach, same offensive core, same defensive core… AND A GOALTENDER. I’d think that Snow will make an offer for a top six net filler… but he won’t get one.
THIS IS A TEAM GAME… and Zach has the potential to blow that up (don’t misconstrue that… Zach is a great team player… what he would blow up is the structure of what is being built)
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
the lottery is in mid April and the draft late June
2-1/2 months is plenty of time to work out the details and ensure that he is healthy. Of course, he’ll be playing for several months prior to the end of the season and that’s a better indicator of what to expect than any physical. Getting Parise transform this team into a contender right away and at 26, he can lead this team on the ice and in the room for a good 5-10 years. He is one player that I could see moving the #1 overall for.
Best case doesn't even make sense for the Islanders...
The best case is that he comes back like he was never injured… okay right there I made myself laugh a little.
He then signs with the Islanders for 7 years… and I look at the first line and I laugh a little more.
He takes $7M for each of those years.
In his first year he isn’t going to help the team get to the playoffs… he’s not superman… and because of lack of support his PPG average has him down to a 60-65 point player. Good.. but not great.
In his second year… where the #1 overall would probably have a pretty good 50 PT inpact… he has the most impact. and the Isles are headed to the playoffs. $14M later, they are going to get knocked out in the first round.
His third year will see the core of the team at their athletic peak. A line of ZP-JT-KO may be supported by the Kirills, around Frans, JB between Martin and Rakhshani… $21M in and notice there is no 30 goal moulson because they’re not paying both of them this off season… LOST. There is no grabner, because they’d only retain him for the one RFA year. No Ullstrom… no Lee (who I think will still be in college.. or maybe his first AHL year).
Give me the first overall this year, and whatever prospects Lou would divine and I’ll save the gamble of Parise turning into a $49M gimp.
To be clear… I hope that Zach has a long and very fruitful career… I just don’t want him to screw us once (not his fault) by not being drafted, and then again by being an enigma. Just let it go…. and move FORWARD. This team needs to be risk averse.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
with Parise--Tavares--Okposo on the first line
You optimize JT with ZP’s playmaking abilities in addition to the added scoring. If we trade Moulson, we keep Grabner…so Grabner—Bailey—Nino on the second line and Ullstrom—Nielsen—Joensuu on the third (maybe Rakhshani fills one of those slots) and Martin—Konopka—Hunter on the fourth, Streit, De Haan, Hamonic, Martinek, AMac, Eaton, Mottau, and Hillen in front of DP and Poulin, this team will be a legit playoff contender next year. In fact, I would guess them for a 100+ point season and a playoff series win or two. That will get the fanbase back and get this franchise healthy again. Then as the Kirills, Lee and others come through the pipeline, the Cup will be in sight at last.
Isnt Zac one of the best in teh league???
If you’re concerned about his health thats one thing but if thats not the issue then I say get him…
Health is one issue...
But the other is BUDGET. He helps get the team to the floor for the next few years, but until wang finds a profitable home for the team he’s not going much over the cap. That means that what you gain in Parise you lose in Moulson, Martinek, Grabner, Schremp… anybody who might find enough success from now until their RFA periods are done to ask for more than $2M are GONE.
23 players $45M… 7 taken up by a knee risk, 4.5 by a shattered hip about to happen… $2M by a ghost… you do the math…
That means you still need a number one goalie… hopefully poulin gives you a cheap option for a few years.
Streit is only here for two more years… If CDH isn’t as good and you want to be in the playoffs you’re looking at increasing your defensive budget by $2M because Mark was a bargain for a #1 defender. You also have the core coming into their RFA extension periods… and that is going to decrease the available funds by at least 5M…
I just don’t see this happening… not for the #1 overall… and not in the time frame we are talking about. I’d rather see them go after him next year when they are ready and all it costs is MONEY… and they’ll have a whole season to evaluate his health. But if the Wild snap him up from lou, he’s gone… then I would worry more about Kyle following him.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
if Lou doesn't trade Zach, he's going to lock him up
They may have a shot at him after the lottery…but that will be their only one. Adding him, Nino, De Haan, and Poulin next year as well as any FAs Garth signs, should transform this team into a contender and bring the fans back…and make the team that much more attractive to other FAs. It could turn everything around.
the key to his comment was quick fix
and no he shouldn’t do a quick fix pick…which would be what a trade for Iginla, for example, would be. A seven year deal for Parise is not a quick fix but another step in building a team. garth would have to weigh everything and decide if it came to it.
Cizikas looks like he may be the best offensive prospect the Isles have.
Speaking of prospects, Cizikas is putting up the best numbers of all of them and he just made Canada’s World Junior team.
Snow, such the politician
This guy really irks me. Don’t sit there and say you will do whatever you can to improve the team but not do a quick fix. We know he can’t just go out there and easily acquire a guy that will lead this team to Stanley Cup Championships, but there are guys that will make this team, as it currently stands, better.
Not saying I want Souray, but would it improve the team? Of course it would. Doesn’t get much worse than losing 20 of 21 games, so I don’t see it hurting the team. The PP has been painful to watch, and that is Souray’s specialty. Just be honest, Wang doesn’t want to spend anymore money on this team.
Like I said, politician.
That window is closing as well...
The time to build a support core for a rebuild would have been last year. This year we are starting to see that the players who should have been in the AHL last year HAVE to be in the NHL next year. (Okposo/Bailey/Tavares). It’s also going to be hard for them to send Hamonic back. Amac is gonna stick. Moulson has proven himself worthy of a supporting NHL role and they will have guys like Kabanov, Ullstrom, Grabner, Figren, and others who are in Juniors and college vying for NHL jobs next year. The UFA’s they pick up next year will be in the same realm as Schremp (so you might as well keep him), Konopka(same logic) and their defensive help (they are already signed through next year).
If he can find a bargain middle six forward or a top four (BIG STRONG) defenseman, that will be his big splash… otherwise the only way this team is getting better is through maturaton.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Point on politician taken, but as far as improving the team…I mean there comes a point where (if it were me at least) I’m just not spending that much — $5M+ this year and next — for that marginal of an upgrade. Souray is damaged goods in my view, so I wanted no part of him. Every team passed on him for free, and some were willing to work out a 3-way exchange with the Oilers — if only the Oil could find someone to take him. No dice.
Hell, if a cannon from the point is all we wanted, bring Marc-Andre Bergeron in ASAP.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
Getting Souray would be making a move for the sake of making a move
Getting Streit and Wiz were smart moves. Souray wouldn’t have been.
To be frankly honest,
after watching Wiz and Souray play some, they are similar players. Not sure how much souray has slowed down since his, but Souray is a bigger/stronger wiz, and maybe better defensively because of his size(he used to be a solid top 4 shutdown guy). Who has a better shot? Souray. Who is better on the PK and probably better on defense still? Souray for his size/strength. The way I see it, Souary would have been an older stronger better-defensive wiz. You really don’t think that Souray could have put up a 5goal+/30-40pts season like wiz will most likely do on this team while playing more solid/useful defense? Come on. I know souray is aging and overpaid, but I’d bet that he’s still a decent nhl defender, leader, and has shot/pp-skills haven’t slowed down from having been a 20goal/50pts d-man 2 seasons ago on a bad team to worse then a 6goal/35pts season like wiz will most likely put up.
LighthouseHockey.com, where debates about Scrooge happen!
You just described Jurcina.
Both are servicable bottom 2’s, and Souray still has one of the best slappers in the game and is a great PP point man.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Jurcina has been good for us this year
He is a +10 for his career while Souray is a -52. He is also 7 years younger, is only under contract for this year, and is much cheaper than Souray would be. There’s no comparison. Plus Souray has said before that he doesn’t want to come back east.
And I think
Jurcina won the Isles hardest shot competition. It’s not Souray’s shot, but it’s not bad.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Plus Souray has said before that he doesn’t want to come back east.
That was when he had options. Now he’s already back east!
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
We got a Snow job
We need a real news conference with members of the press asking hardball questions. Did you notice that there were no follow-up questions? I appreciate Dom getting us the conversation with Snow, but basically thats all it was.
Heh, I can’t claim credit for the conversation! I just remembered it was up there, so I wanted to make sure people had it as a reference. As in: don’t ask me — here’s the team’s party platform, its most thorough responses I’ve seen on a variety of burning topics.
And of course I fully recognize it was a controlled environment — and even having a place like LHH repost it means it is mission accomplished on their end: They got their message out. But to me it was progress that they brought up critical questions people sent in, and we got his honest responses. Their way of acknowledging repeated concerns, and addressing which ones they’ll touch and which ones they won’t.
The stuff for which there was no follow-up, we wouldn’t even get in a live back-and-forth setting, not even if Larry Brooks were twisting the knife. The more I pay attention to rival GM interviews, the more I realize some of Snow’s info flow only stands out because the Isles are losing. Dean Lombardi is one of the few who gives you a thorough window into thought processes most GMs don’t want to share.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo...not that we particularly care.
the place where transparency is really needed is with the next step after Lighthouse and that's up to Wang
I have no real problems with Garth.
The Real question is do the
assets properly develop in a losing environment, that is where the balancing act comes in..most nights it doesn’t look like they learn a damn thing..if this goes on for long enough, those same assets can “depreciate” so to say.
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
