Why the Islanders Will Turn it Around Under Jack Capuano
by JPinVA on Nov 29, 2010 2:30 PM EST
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PrintEditor's Note from Dom: Really extensive, thought-provoking FanPost from JPinVA that provides too much fun and fodder not to feature it on the front page. We could spend days mulling and debating different aspects...and I expect we will!
Theory: The Islanders had too much non-Scott Gordon talent. They had limited ability to change the talent and Gordon was locked into his system. There was also too little time afforded the turn-around given their resources. To make this a "Scott Gordon" team was going to take at least another three years just to make the playoffs.
The main source of talent for this team was the core left over from the transition from Ted Nolan. The team was slow, and seemed to be headed for more of a power-forward oriented offense. I'm sure any coach would have liked better skaters, and especially a more mobile defense, but the Isles were limited in that regard. There lack of access to the free agent market also left them with older talent that was on the downside of their career.
The Foundation
These are the players from the previous regime.
Offense (Alphabetically)
Sean Bergenhiem: Should have been a good fit, but there was never any real buy-in and he wasn't a Garth Snow draft pick... probably not a Wang favorite either... Sean needed a change. Not an earth shaker.
Blake Comeau: Not a swift skater. Talent is creating space so he can utilize a better than average shot. He's what Nolan wanted to cultivate, he's extended past his limits by Gordon.
Bill Guerin: One man's captain is another man's pain in the ass. On a team devoid of any real leadership, Bill Guerin is missed.
Andy Hilbert: Perfect fit for the Nolan to Gordon transition. Why this didn't work probably lies in Andy's inability to become more productive in this environment.
Trent Hunter: See Blake Comeau... only slower, smarter(?) and grandfathered in with a 5 year contract. If Gordon stayed I expect that Hunter would have been shopped at every opportunity.
Tim Jackman: Made the transition perfectly. He was third tier talent though, injured, and showed no mastery of any of his abilities.
Frans Nielsen: Frans is gold in any system. He was probably the best of the holdovers.
Kyle Okposo: Only played 9 games under Nolan, but KO was perfect for a re-tooling under Nolan. He is a skilled player with very good skating ability, so he did, and most likely would have continued to succeed under Scott Gordon. As Capuano reverts to a system based on his surrounding talent Kyle will benefit tremendously. Both he and Josh were rushed to the NHL... If Jack is retained these two will be cornerstones in a successful rebuild.
Richard Park: Another of the Nolan holdover that should have been greatly successful on a Scott Gordon team. Unfortunately he was on the other side of the mountain, small and never produced at a top six forward rate. Letting Park go affected the locker room, and may be the single most (besides injury) meaningful move leading to a 14 game losing streak.
Jon Sim: Sim was brought on because he had a Ted Nolan sensibility. Sim goes to the dark places and creates opportunities. He is an ancillary piece, though, and there are not enough primary pieces to make his talents effective. He still does what he does.. but it's not a key to a Gordon system. Jack was able to allow his talents to shine in BP amongst lesser players. He'll be important both in the NHL as an instigator and in the AHL as a teacher.
Jeff Tambellini: This really should have worked out. I really thought that the best recent Islander for a Scott Gordon system would have been Jason Blake... and I thought Tambellini was a young Jason Blake. This is one I put directly on Gordon. He couldn't even tweak Tambellini into being a key piece.
Defense
Chris Campoli: You'd have thought that Chris was a perfect fit. Well Chris may have thought he was more than he was and Gordon isn't a people person... adios.
Bruno Gervais: Bruno has been on a roller coaster since he got here. He was the second fiddle of young puck-moving defensemen behind Campoli... he could never get on the PP, even after Campoli was ex-Isled and he seems lost going from the simple NHL ABC (that he started to show signs of growth in under Nolan) to the Rube Goldbergian system of recognition that Gordon installed. He is only playing on the team today because he is cheap and less fragile than most of his teammates.
Radek Martinek: Much like Frans, Radek would survive in any system because he is a very good, smart hockey player. They don't outshine other players but they create ambient light so that the others players can see through the darkness. They will be NY Islanders as long as they don't make Charles Wang reach too deep in his pocket. Marty is a tough sign because of his fragility, but losing him with the current blah third rate defensemen would be a mistake in year four. Until the fresh crop are ready. Radek, when healthy, is a solid top four defender... and shouldn't be too costly. He'll also ride the tide of change, where-ever Capuano leads them. Having a healthy Radek in year two may have given Gordon more time in year three.
Freddy Meyer: He made himself what I thought was the perfect 5/6 go-go defenseman. He was cheap, he was effective, and he was gone because they were going to retry with such luminary veterans as Mottau, Eaton and a last minute prayer, Wisniewski. Sorry freddy... we made you, we can break you.
Andy Sutton: Andy WAS SUCCESFUL in the go-go... but he was injury prone, expensive and on the other side of the mountain... so the first team that had an extra bag of kitty litter got him... even when he opened the door for return (another iceberg in the SS Botta/Snow cross Atlantic journey) he was told to look elsewhere for employment.
Brendan Witt: Brendon was never going to be a Scott Gordon defenseman. He never had recovery speed to be below the hash marks in the offensive zone, and he wasn't getting any faster. Injury and age finally caught up to a great warrior. Brendan, though, was the best example of trying to implement a new system IN SPITE of the current talent.
Goaltending: All Scott got was an oft-injured and rehabbing Rick DiPietro. His prolonged absence definitely affected Gordon's ability to succeed. But even an effective Dipietro would have been too little too late.
Free Agents
He was left alone with his pen when it came time to re-sign players in July 2007. He wound up with, as us Italians from Brooklyn like to call, "stugots".
Being the GM under the circus tent was not new to Garth Snow. Knowing this he got on the tightrope and launched Nolan out of the cannon.
I think we've identified the type of player that Scott Gordon needs to be successful and in three UFA periods they have landed Mark Streit... and that's it. Sure Snow has done an okay job filling cracks with guys like Biron, Roloson, Eaton and Mottau. But that's not how to turn a roster over in three years. He was left with almost nothing and they have gone backwards in the 25-30 year old player demographic.
The Future (Draft order)
Let's say the retooling started with the 2006 draft and Kyle Okposo. Here's what the future of the club looks like:
2006
Kyle Okposo: (see above)
Jesse Joensuu: He is definitely a NO FIT in the Gordon system. He's too slow. He was brought in because of being a big body with hands. If they take the shackles off and move more towards an offense that doesn't depend on chasing the puck in the offensive and neutral zones Jesse might turn out to be something... he still has yet to prove it though.
Robin Figren: Another no fit guy. Figren's WJC was rather impressive... much like another later FIRST ROUND pick. He was transitioned into white board hockey and really hasn't had time to develop into that kind of player. Again, hopefully freeing him up will make him more productive.
Rhett Rakhshani: Eventually I thought Rhett would have been a good Gordon fit. He skates well and is a naturally aggressive forward. Very much in the mold of a Jason Blake. He would have helped Gordon survive, he will improve team speed if they can get a bag of kitty litter for Trent Hunter.
Andrew MacDonald: Biggest value of the 2006 picks. A product of Nolan and Flynn's philosophy in Moncton and became a steady NHL defenseman very quickly. Learned quickly under Capuano and worked well under Gordon, and will help Capuano again when he returns.
2007
Mark Katic: Could have helped in a Gordon System. Injuries may have limited his window to prove himself. Every time they need him, and there is an open door... he's out. That window closes a little more with the emergence of Travis Hamonic and eventually Calvin deHaan.
2008
Josh Bailey: Rushed...rushed...and rushed. Josh may be the best example of why you don't expose anybody less than EXTRAORDINARY as an 18-year-old against MEN. Gordon saying earlier in the year that they had done "everything right" with Josh because he started the season well was like Maclean Stevenson saying he made an excellent career choice with Hello Larry because their Christmas episode didn't finish last in the ratings. Josh was a NOLAN guy. Josh will be a Jack guy. Josh needs to be free of the dry erase board and get his confidence back. Hopefully he'll get a chance to do that while working with the younger forwards to develop a better organization. This should have been going on the first two years of his career.
Hamonic/Petrov/Donovan/Ullstrom/Martin... This draft class has Ted Nolan written all over it.
When were they going to bring in kids that could help Scott Gordon?
2009
John Tavares: JT is Ryan Smyth... that's what I see when I watch him play. I'm very happy and I'm glad they drafted him... but again... this is not the kind of player that you want depending on an aggressive forecheck for offense. Why are you going to dry erase this kids talent by making him into something different. If they were drafting for Gordon they'd have taken the better skater Duchene, or the big need in a puck moving defenseman that was also a big body in Hedman.
CDH/the goalies/Cizikas/Klementyev/Lee... Besides deHaan who there fits in the Gordon mold? They may have talent, but as far as I know these are big forwards and defensemen that don't ooze speed and stamina.
2010
Nino Niederreiter: He's going to help in any system... and he probably grows into a Gordon player if they give him three years including a year in the AHL to understand the chalkboard. If this was a Nolan team Nino is in the NHL next year and he is PRODUCTIVE. There was just too much for him to digest, but you can tell he is going to be in the NHL.
Nelson/Kabanov/DeHart: I've seen one game of Nelson... he's no Scott Gordon player. I can't imagine Petrov or Kabanov ever filling a role where being "creative" isn't nurtured....
Snow/Jankowski blunder?
So WHY did they put these eggs in the Scott Gordon basket. I don't get it. I think Gordon was a good coach, but he needed a certain kind of talent to make things work. All he did was show that he couldn't win with the talent at his disposal. But when you look forward one, two or three years it doesn't get any better in respect to what he needs (I assume) to be successful.
This makes the firing of Ryan Jankowski all the more confusing. From the outside, the organization looks well stocked eventually find success. It appears that at the draft table he took (in a good percentage of cases) the best player available. But rarely did he take the best Scott Gordon player available. Or.. maybe he did... but that SGP is just so rare that we will never see a team comprised of that kind of talent. But this team DOES HAVE TALENT. Maybe it has the best talent since the Peter Laviolette years. A good question to ponder is, if they have talent (if you believe as I do) but it was the wrong talent to go with the coach/system WHY CHANGE BOTH. The future talent was the responsibility of Jankowski. If the firing of Gordon was a step in the right direction, maybe the firing of Jankowski was the two steps back that we often talk about. We'll see.
Summation
Jack Capuano is going to get a chance to be the guy to make it work. I don't see this team crawling out of the hole that they are in this year, but I can see this current roster being competitive. Maybe by the end of the year they are a borderline playoff contender... especially if both Streit and Okposo return. But they can never get good enough, fast enough to contend this year.
Jack will benefit from restarting the clock. The talent needs time to develop. He also should have the foresight to use what was working for Gordon and modify it to work with the tools in his shed. What I see Jack doing is simplifying the three areas that were hurting the team, especially the younger players. The team has already shown more offensive creativity, more physicality, and more defensive flexibility.
I think Gordon relied too heavily on creating offense from the forecheck. It was pretty when it worked, but it didn't work often enough. It also never allowed them to become a team that could flow through all three zones. I think we see the tide changing in this regard as they are starting to settle into a more laid back defensive stance that focuses on neutral zone lockdowns (THE TRAP?)
This allows the team to be more PHYSICAL. In Gordon's system it seemed harder to finish a check, and then initiate a forecheck, which could kill your chances of participating in a backcheck. His reign saw the worst ratio of odd man breakouts that I can recall... as an Islander fan of over 30 years. Now guys that used to hit, hit more. Capuano has already shown the genius of being able to use a guy like Gillies to protect a guy like Tavares... this should be taught day one of coaching school, but in two plus years Gordon couldn't figure it out. He may also benefit from the injection of Martin, Joensuu and Hamonic. These are young players that in the future will wear down opposing forwards and defenders. Gordon just never utilized that aspect of the game.
When Breandan Witt tried to explain the defensive system of recognition during an interview he just never seemed to have confidence in it. Okay, Brendan wasn't going to be around long enough for it to matter... but have we seen ONE Islander defenseman be successful in their own zone? If they are successful they are exiled soon afterwards. I am under the impression that job one is to get defenders to worry less about WHO they are defending and worrying more about HOW they are defending. Not that I even know why, but in game four of the Capuano era you've seen a SHUTOUT by a rusty goaltender. Albeit it was against a broken team... but I have a feeling that the KISS principle is going to make a young, "inexpensive" defensive corp so much better.
If Jack is judged by the way the team performs under his reign he will be endorsed sooner than later... and they will improve. That is something that Gordon wasn't able to accomplish. I hope we see a continued improvement under jack, and that Gordon finds success somewhere they have the resources to build a team around his needs.
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I think I buy that Gordon could do much better with different players
That he was trying to instill something that either didn’t work when the (smart, mobile) players weren’t there, or at least didn’t work well enough when things were coming up dry. I thought a lot of the younger guys — even JT, whose speed is limited — showed moments where this team could be good. Gordon’s flaw may have been not finding a middle ground in the interim.
But I always did believe they were building this team on a 3-5-year plan to fit the Gordon ideal of mobile, aggressive hockey. So the drafting is a great question for that. And do you even draft for a coach who may not be here 3-5 years down the line? (Turns out that’s true here, but it’s also the nature of the game.) Or do you draft BPA in general and then deal with misfits and miscasts if and when they beat the odds and become good NHL players?
It’s going to be hard to tell yet fun to find out under Capuano. I think for a lot of these kids — JJ, Figren to take two — the greater question is whether they can be NHLers period rather than which coach is best for them, so even if some of them eventually beat the odds I won’t know if we can hang the delay on Gordon. But I do suspect (hope?) Capuano will find roles for these guys that Gordon didn’t appear to be open to. Maybe that leads to a more competitive team in this otherwise rough season, maybe it leads to more.
I do always repeat to myself: The coach who reaps the rewards of a rebuild is rarely the guy who put in the dirty work when the team was at rock bottom.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
Point taken...
Two points I’ve continually made for 2+ years.
1. No plan B. There were rarely adjustments to teams that figured him out, and the stretches of flat play were prolonged because of his unwillingness to adjust to the talent he was working with.
2. The blind leading the blind. There was no constant in the equation. How can you assess an experiment if all you have are unknowns. Well… they are going to have the roster for a long time, so it was time to cut your losses and at least attempt changing the coach. Doing it sooner just makes sense if you look at the prospects for changing the roster… NIL.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
What exactly was Gordon's system?
I’m not sure I ever really understood what Gordon’s system was. I guess it was just aggressive forechecking. I’d have to see some video to really understand what was wrong with it and why it didn’t fit the personnel.
Just me speculating...
If you are going to base more than half of your offense on turning the puck over in the offensive zone you had better do it often.
The previous regime had ONE player who consistently caused turnovers in the offensive zone… and they got rid of him as soon as he got so good at it he scored 40 goals.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
I assume you mean forcing turnovers in the offensive zone. Yes, I agree, when you forecheck aggressively and you don’t get a turnover you often leave your team at a disadvantage on the other teams rush up ice. So if you go for turnovers you better succeed a fair amount. I guess your talking about Blake. Blake was getting old at that point. He didn’t approach 40 goals after the Isles decided not to resign him. I can’t argue too much with that decision.
Blake was never an option after July 1...
But the times last year that they looked good they had guys like Park ad Kyle buzzing… they leave Park out to dry and Kyle gets hurt… and they didn’t bring in ONE FORWARD with the type of ability to make it work… so… if you can’t get the talent you have to be flexible… or BREAK.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
this is where lack of overall speed hurts too
If you’re going to commit an extra forward to a forecheck, they have to be able to get back into the play. This is where pressing too much hurt the team: not enough overall speed at forward, and not enough depth to play the system all the time. That’s why they blew all those third-period leads.
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good point
Very interesting stuff indeed, great job putting it together, JP.
But just like TMS, I definitely think we don’t know enough about Gordon’s systems to truly get a good idea of this stuff. I mean, I know forecheck was a big part, etc., but there’s been very little coverage indeed. From the beginning, when Gordon used the term “overspeed” there was something mystic about it. No one really knew what to make of it and everyone thought “oh this new guys has some new ideas and some complicated systems, etc.” It took everyone like a year to realize Gordon was takling about practice – and not game tactics – when using the term “overspeed”.
And I don’t think there were many quotes from players that help to get a better idea. Of course, a few complained about it at the end, but well, that was after an awfully disappointing start into this season and when everybody lacked of confidence hugely. I’m sure no one wondered about the systems last January during that good stretch, particularly not a guy like Comeau who played the best hockey of his career back then.
Also, them giving up odd-man rushes was never a topic at all last season, was it? And I never felt they were particularly vulnerable there. This season, yeah, there might have been a few games where they looked bad there, but then again, they had to chase the score all the time and were naturally a bit more vulnerable there. However, watching other games I definitely see a good amount of odd-man rushes, too.
Basically, I think too much has been made of this systems talk lately. And Gordon’s been misunderstood in a few ways. For example, how many rate Trent Hunter and him being not valueable at all in Gordon’s systems is wrong in my opinion. If you listened to Gordon closely and watched the games and how/when he used Hunter, you could get the idea he liked Trent pretty well, maybe not as a scoring forward, but as a complete player who shoots the puck very well (and often) and knows how to hit – two things that have nothing to do with complicated systems and show that there was quite a bit of the aspect to keep things simple to Gordon’s game plan, as well.
But yeah, I certainly agree Jack has simplified stuff a little bit. But that’s what most of the coaches would do in this situation, even if the systems of the former coach were actually pretty simple already anyway. So, yeah, well done for now, but I don’t think this tells us anything on what Jack will want them to do on a longer term and how successful it will be just mid-term, long-term. From reading this column of Justin Bourne, who I like very much as a writer, I’m not sure Jack will still be here next summer.
Now, of course, you couldn’t expect the new (interim) coach to get them back to the level they were at last season within just a couple of weeks, so, I’m not disappointed with what Jack has done thus far, not at all, I think he’s been quite good. But we should still keep in mind they are very, very far away from the hockey they played during their best stretches last season. As a team as well as many of the guys individually. I’m a little concerned it will take a guy like Comeau the rest of the season to realize Gordon did him some good actually and that it’s a long way back to the level he played at last season.
But yeah, as said, I don’t even know enough about it to comment on everything and there’s definitely very interesting elements to your ideas that should be followed going forward.
My evidence
1. Just watching the games. Year one Gordon didn’t really have a good stretch. Before a game with Pitt Therrion was interviewed. He basically said, [paraphrasing] “I don’t know what the big deal is, Scott presses the boards with an extra man on the forecheck, if you put a forward up the middle as an outlet you’ll get plenty of offensive opportunities” Okay… if you can announce on TV how to break the pressure, you do it in the first period and get crazy opportunities, and you’re opponent can’t stop you… what does that say about your opponent. I know they had Crosby and Gino… but still that’s like sending your troops out in a circle and telling them to start firing at the first sight of the enemy.
2. The Brendan Witt interview… “system of recognition”. When I saw that I was imagining Gordon in a wheelchair with a voice symulator explaining the astro-psychicality… “when defeinding a rush, first identify the guy with the most scoring potential and force the puck away from him” okay… nice idea… but what happens if you’re being rushed by Tim Jackman and nate Thompson… which way do you want the puck to flow… and how do you communicate your decision to your partner… and in under 2 seconds… Nate has a .03 shooting percentage, press Tim… WTF?
3. I don’t know if you were talking about odd man rushes in year one… but it was a pretty big problem for the two less than NHL caliber goaltenders whe were getting pummelled night after night because after dealing with 2-on-1’s 3-on-2’s and breakaways they were the duck in a shooting gallery because nobody could clear their own zone… “oh… we hadn’t thought about that… we were never gonna be our own zone because our forecheck was going to be so good”
Ben, you’ve broken down games on here better than anybody. I can only add my own simple perceptions of what goes on in 2D-MSG+2 fizzle… and I could see guys look like they signed up for Arthur Murray and got the Gregory Hines advanced class.
I find it hard to thnk that the Islanders can attract anybody with success and in their price range until ALL the dirty work is done. there are probably two good years of dirty work left to do. That includes roster building and general NHL hockey 101 instruction. Jack may not be the PERFECT guy to do it… but I wouldn’t discount this audition period.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
The quotes from Therrien are interesting for sure. It sometimes seemed like it takes the coaches a couple of games to figure out how to play against Gordon – so, it might not have been all that simple, but indeed, once they’d figured it out, they were in a very strong position against Gordon indeed. So, yeah, I definitely agree with lots of little things you mention, like Gordon showing a lack of plan B.
And then there’s things that definitely didn’t work, but perhaps would be tough to blame the coach for, like basically the whole year 1 of this era. I really feel that year doesn’t tell anything because they were such a bad team indeed – but honestly can’t comment in detail because I didn’t watch too many games in that season. The fact that the goalies are blamed so much for their struggles in that season keeps surprising me, though. I know, the stats don’t tell everything and many people will say they let in soft goals in critical moments, but after all, Danis and MacDonald combined for a better save percentage that year than Roloson and Biron did last year. I’m just not sure they were anything more than a minor problem and however struggle to see the connection between them having tough nights and Gordon’s systems. And Witt, well, not sure he’s a represantative voice.
So, again, I certainly agree Gordon lacked in some aspects, but I just can’t tell if the systems were part of the problem and/or if they’ve had the wrong guys on the team to play that system. I’m not sure we truly know what Gordon’s ideas were. For example, the US team he coached at the Worlds last spring was not what you’d probably call a typical Gordon team. First of all, I don’t know how much influence he had in terms of putting the team together and even with the power to choose who he likes he obviously kind of had to take those willing to play at all. And it’s a whole different story anyway, but it’s interesting to go through that roster. There’s a few mobile defensemen on there, as you’d expect, but there’s quite a few not very mobile forwards on there, rather big boys. And if he ever spoke highly of certain guys in the media, I felt Hunter, Sim or also Thompson, who he would have liked to keep around, got quite a good share, thus guys with a rather simple approach. It’s entirely possible he wanted guys to keep it simple within rather strict systems (if that makes sense at all…) and maybe guys struggled there – I just don’t know.
However, there’s only so much a coach can do. Again, Gordon could have done better in certain areas, but I’m not sure to which extent his general ideas were likely to fail anyway. My feel is that the players, the media and some fans have made a bit too much of it lately.
On Witt (and to a lesser extent Sutton), I remember talk of them enjoying Nolan’s coverage system because it set up big hits for them at their own blueline. Funny how individuals are all for what plays to their strengths!
Really agree with Ben on Hunter: Gordon was vocal about him being an example of a guy lacking speed still doing well in his system. Of course if that only goes for the defensive side and artificially limits his offense, then maybe it’s self-defeating. But I think (lack of) PP time and tougher assignments had as much to do with that.
Ultimately, I’m afraid coaching changes are one area where the psychological can be just as big as any other factor. Elliotte Friedman’s column (always a good read) had a fun quote from a GM about coaching changes and when you have to make them:
“We had one player who was certain he wasn’t improving because of the coach. He wasn’t entirely right, but he’d convinced himself of it.” When that spreads throughout the roster, and you consider those players important, you’ve got a real problem. "Every coach has a shelf life, and, for some of them, it arrives faster than others.I’d like to think it takes more than a 10-game streak to sink a coach, but I could see where that might push fragile young minds past the point of belief in their bench jockey.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
Indeed, you make a very good point at the end there. And that’s actually kind of how I read Garth’s comments after the firing. As you mention, tough to imagine this happens within a 10-game streak and there could easily have been more to it, but generally I feel that it was much more players having lost any confidence in the coach than actually the systems being a real issue and doomed to not work with this team, these players. And that’s why I’ve not liked some of the systems talk very much.
seconded
You just summed up why I felt so badly for Gordon as the losses began to pile up. The team was 4-1-2, and Gordon was a young genius winning with so many good injured players. Then they went 0-9-1 and suddenly he was an idiot. And in about half of those games they played just as well as they did during the first part of the year – they could have gone 4-5-1 and then Gordon would still be there.
So the team starts winning again under Capuano – genius! Except the results could do nothing else BUT improve. So, was the team worse under Gordon, or just the results?
Twist the Mobius strip a little more – a great team that finishes with fewer goals than a mediocre team, loses the game. A mediocre team can make the playoffs and advance through the playoffs over great teams. It’s all about the results in the end, even if the team IS improving. The trick is, when do you want your results? Do you want to improve the team, short-term results be damned? Do you want to pull a Burke (since he’s so prevalent in the threads recently), and play Martin Gerber the last 20 games of a lost season, costing you the chance at a lottery pick?
I’m sticking to EHM’07.
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Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
That reminds me of Gabe's quote
From a few weeks back:
I have spoken to numerous NHL executives about advanced statistics and one of their biggest complaints is that the scoreboard is deceptive. When they win despite playing badly – which happens all the time – they have limited means to convince their players of their poor play.
I wish that were plastered everywhere like some kind of Big Brother banner: Winning is everything, but it doesn’t always mean what we think it means.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
Your best teaching occurs when the team is winning, when a team is losing it is hard enough for them to hear how much they suck. If you look at guys like Bill Parcells, his toughest words always came after big wins and rarely felt the need to rip the team when they knew they sucked. That’s the key to a good coach, keep a team working on the fundamentals when they are down and improve the areas that need it when the wins are coming.
a great and underused philosophy
I’d heard that about Parcells, and Lombardi before him… basically, the guys people would consider gigantic SOB’s, but who still built incredible respect and loyalty from their players. (The Gatorade Shower that is now the universal symbol of “hoooray W00T!” was started by the Giants – not to celebrate wins, but as revenge against Parcells for being such a grouch when they were doing well.)
You hear of this philosophy in unusual places, sometimes. Bill Veeck, for example, talked about the need to pick up players who were struggling – he’d sometimes give bonuses to let certain guys know they were still valuable to the team (and that was when an extra couple thousand really meant something to a pro athlete). In Fish Sticks, there’s a story about the Nameless One treating his team (then the Bruins) to a dinner after a successful road trip – only to be bitched out about it by Harry Sinden, who told him, “Now they think that they’ve done enough.” Their next home game they were crushed by the Rags.
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Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Hear hear
To both.
Heh, this is totally unrelated but that made me realize how I almost unconsciously approach post-mortems here, or why I don’t bash the team after every loss in the main posts. I figure after losses everyone knows the team’s flaws quite damn well and doesn’t need me to repeat, “They sucked again,” so I just try to find little things to think about (win or lose). Wins are great times to ask uncomfortable questions — except when they’re so rare that everyone just needs a big gasp of relief.
Same with report cards. A straight slate of F’s is easy.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
A bit OT
But did you read that poor Bruno broke his face fighting the other night? He is going to try skating and playing wearing a full cage like Jackman and Hillen did. Either he can do it, someone comes back, or we see Klementyev for the first time this season up for the Rangers games.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
Sigh...
That sucks. That’s why they have weight classes in boxing.
There are no weight classes where he belongs...
…in the kitchen. (okay… bad attempt at humor) I give Bruno a lot of credit for sticking up for his teammate… and I question the other guys on the ice who just let that happen… especially when they saw it was Bruno… the only guy that Avery will fight… that right there qualifies him in the same weight class as a 9 year old girl… or easily sucker punched
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
sidenote on that fight, i thought given his eye history, and that he was jumped after he knew he made a mistake hit, that White wasn’t in the wrong, but my father thinks Bruno didn’t really do enough to warrant a smash to the face… if i’m White, i don’t know who’s grabbing me, but my 2nd or 3rd to last guess would be BG, he had to think ZK, TG, or MMA were the likely culprits
sidenote 2, avery fought tootoo the other night, and lost, not creamed, but lost and tootoo was pleased with himself
NTIPC, but you can buy tix for wed's game for $7 on stubhub... ... 7$ freaking dollars
I don't blame White a bit (for the fight part. The hit was poor.)
If someone grabs you and the wrong punch is likely to end your career, you swing hard first, ask ID later.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
I think the people of Nashville want to know whether or not their third-line winger is a crook. Well, I am not a crook.
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
I love it.
I hate avery a lot more then I dislike tootoo(given team/conference circumstances), so I loved every second of watching that replay.
Go isles or Go home.
It was tool vs. tool
If I ever saw it live, I’d root for mutual destruction.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
don't know if it was the cause but
Avery sticked Cody Franson in the throat and did not get called. He got hit with a puck tonight but, unfortunately, he seemed OK.
Ugh. I thought Bruno was playing pretty well too. (aside from an ability to get the puck out of the zone.)
I thought he might have been concussed the way he was all wobbly. Did he actually break something – like an orbital bone?
fractured cheekbone
Not his eye or jaw, thankfully- those would be tougher injuries. But still! Poor Bruno! :(
And for the record, he has even more 
than I thought if he is going to try and get out there and still try and play with a fractured face!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 29, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
Great job...
Spot on… and interesting. I think seeing how Jack C uses Josh B will be of critical importance, and if he plays well over time upon returning, I predict that Jack keeps this job!
looking forward to Josh 2.0
(OK, sorry, but SOMEONE had to make that joke.)
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Agreed. GREAT JOB JP!
And it’s going to be very interesting to see what Capiano can do this year.
Go isles or Go home.
I voted Other
But I don’t have anyone in mind. I was never big on Gordon, this team is too small physically for Nolan, and I don’t know much about Capuano. So my vote less an “other” than an “I dunno”.
I voted "other"
Personally, I would not have fired Laviolette. I understand that at the time, and with the team as it was, it was close to inevitable… but I think he really would have been terrific in the rebuild phase.
I do begin to see why Nolan’s got his fans, though. His final year on the Island, he was given some really terrible players. His not being retained at the end of the season was really not so much his fault at all. He probably would have made more of Bergenheim. Given JT, Bailey, Streit, and Comeau, I think he does a good job of getting them ready for the league, without making it too complicated.
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Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Lavy would have proven worthy of an extension...
… but you probably would have had to get rid of Yashin, DiPietro and Milbury…. hmmm… I like it even more. Actually they should have thrown a ton of cash at Paul Maurice… But that wasn’t going to happen either. When Quennville didn’t answer the phone you knew this wasn’t going to turn out good.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Agreed
Lavoilette was a good coach, Gordon too, maybe a bit rigid. I think Nolan is a good coach but did he want to develop the young talent or win with the vets that were playing well? I’ve heard a lot of talk suggesting it was the latter which is why he didn’t get a long with Garth. So may be not the best guy for a developing team.
"We've made a final offer. We hope Ziggy Palffy will come to his senses. We have NO hope his agent will." - Mike Milbury
Exodus 2007
Is the main reason Nolan was not extended. Players agents were a lot smarter than most fans. When it came time to resign players Wang was whining about losing $20M a year. If you’re an agent do you want your clients to operate under that circus tent. The guy hired a GM for 45 days. He has a “committee” making his hockey decisions. But he has final say on all decisions, and he knows less about hockey than Bob Marley did on his deathbed. So… in 2007 after Ted Nolan made your clients valuable, and Wang/Snow made them available… ADIOS WANGDANGLER!!!!
Then you proclaim you are going to improve through free agency… Who do you get for Nolan 2.0… Tank, JoVas, Sim… Really… you lose 80% of your offense and that’s what you give Nolan to work with. I think after witnessing how the NHL were going to treat the Islanders (NO UFA ACCESS), and Wang was going to dangle the “I don’t give extensions in the middle of the year” Nolan was probably thinking, “Who the F*** are you to play a power game. You have a shit team, a back up goalie as a GM, an AHL roster, a moronic pipe dream for REFURBISHED arena… and you want to wait until the end of the season to see how I do… go F*** yourself”
Well… at least that’s what I’d have been thinking to myself.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
by JPinVA on Nov 29, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It comes down to talent
I think there is too much focus on the coaching. Yes, it certainly is important to have good coaching but we have had several good coaches who accomplished little. By little, I mean getting beyond 1 first round beat down in the last 15 years.
I love the idea of a rebuild and doing it from within the system using the draft. I would never want the Islanders to pull a Ranger-esque move of importing half their team from a former cup winning team. However, the draft can’t re-tool our whole squad with the talent we need to get to the finals.
It seems as if we are in a downward spiral. We don’t have enough talent to win consistently and UFAs don’t want to come to a team with a losing culture. Teams before us have broken out of this cycle, the Isles should look to those teams as an example. Sort of like the NHL should be hiring the same ad agency NASCAR uses, but I digress.
"We've made a final offer. We hope Ziggy Palffy will come to his senses. We have NO hope his agent will." - Mike Milbury
Does this work
Snow wries a letter… and xerox’s it X times… then sends a copy to each player on the current roster… and to every prospect in the system.
YOU HAVE NO TALENT, stay home we’re voiding your contract!
Why?
Because Peter Pan says I can!
This team has talent. It’s young, it’s raw and it has not improved under Scott Gordon… and the YOU HAVE NO TALENT TO WORK WITH excuse only works for so long… and two years is LONG ENOUGH. You don’t have to win the cup, or go to the playoffs in two years… but you do have to improve, and show the team has bought into your system.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Gordon
was a victim of his own success. Had he started the year off meeting, instead of exceeding, expectations the losing streak wouldn’t have looked so bad. Most rankings had the Isles near last despite what Garth/Wang/Gordon planned on doing during their season of “no excuses”.
I didn’t say we don’t have any talent. I’m just saying we don’t have the talent necessary to get to the finals. Personally, I question whether we have the “talent” to make the playoffs. I "" talent because talent isn’t all that matters, consistency plays a huge role. We have a few very talented and consistent players, we have a ton of talented and inconsistent players, and we have some guys who probably don’t belong in the NHL.
At some point management needs to decide whether they keep rotating through coaches until they find someone who can get a consistent showing out of these guys or start getting rid of some of the inconsistent guys, or realize that these guys need more help.
Seeing as how the Isles record to date consists of a lot of players who weren’t good here going elsewhere to blossom and coaches released from the Isles being successful elsewhere I’d say we go with the “need more help” option.
"We've made a final offer. We hope Ziggy Palffy will come to his senses. We have NO hope his agent will." - Mike Milbury
Its hilarious how these professionals can really believe that attitude is so powerful.
Just watch the show ‘Oil Change’ on NHL Network. You have these Oilers execs and coaches lecturing to the players about attitude and accountability and all this lofty, serious sounding BS, as if that was what caused winning. Well if that’s what causes winning tell me who has the best attitude before we know who wins and show me that it can predict who wins. Until then its all just BS to make these guys feel good and important as they impart their ‘knowledge’ of ‘what it takes to win’. I think that what it takes to win is better hockey players than the opposition and some luck. Better players and luck. That’s it. If you’re players aren’t good enough there are only 2 ways to have better players. The players you have can get better by practicing diligently or you can acquire better players.
I think typically the players with the best attitudes are the better players. Or maybe the better players typically have better attitudes. They take instruction and criticism and they work harder to correct their flaws. As for being lucky…I think it was Jefferson who said, “I find the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have”
"We've made a final offer. We hope Ziggy Palffy will come to his senses. We have NO hope his agent will." - Mike Milbury
"I find the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have"
Fantastic quote! :)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 30, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
It was Jefferson
My favorite is by JS Bach.
Anyone who works as hard as I did can achieve the same results
Oil Change
Thanks for that tip, TMS. I’ve seen that on the listings and not investigated but did wonder if ti was a window into the Oilers “braintrust.” That would be high comedy.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
Oil Stain
I liked the idea of going into the organization to get a look at what they were thinking. I could have seen the same scenario with the NYI’s if they were run by logical men.
So many different issues:
Venue… Is this going to air before 2015? Yes… well then no comment.
Free agency… Did you see that we greatly improved our defense this year… well.. not really in talent but as of July 30th we have 4 healthy defenseman that have played int he NHL.
Draft… here, talk to Kevin Connolly while we fire our assistant GM in charge of amateur scouting.
Media… Hi this is Tony. Tony is a sophomore over at Hofstra and he is the producer of our radio broadcasts… oh and this is Howie Rose… no… not her… the guy in the Ranger’s Stanley Cup tie… not that anybody particularly cares.
Salary Cap… We haven’t signed Doug Weight yet, but we’re sure he’ll accept whatever gets us to the floor.
Coach… Gentlemen, I’m sure you’re familiar with our third year coach Scott Gordon. Scott and I have developed quite a relationship and I expect him to be leading this team to great things. [one month later] Gentlemen, this is Jack Capuano. Jack has been with the organization for over five years and he will be the coach tonight.
Season Ticket Subscriptions: Our marketing department has come up with a GENIUS plan. Being that nobody will be interested in the hockey team this year we’ve decided to give season ticket holders first crack at other coliseum events. This will cause ticket brokers to buy up lots of NYI season tickets and then sell them for $6 on stub hub… in effect, we’ve created the lowest ticket prices in the league, while raising season ticket prices… PURE GENIUS!!!!
Goaltending… Dwayne… can you come over here these guys from the NHL Network would like to talk to you… “Don’t bother me, I’ve got all these medicare forms to fill out… go find Rickey”… walking through the underbelly of the coliseum… “I’m sure Rickey is in here somewhere”… “oh… here he is…. Rickey these guys from the NHL Network would like to talk to you for a second…”
“Hi guys… don’t mind the body cast, this is just the way I get prepared for a game. Some guys stretch, some guys meditate, I like to get all covered in plaster of paris and try to scratch myself with a hanger”
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Don't take this the wrong way...
…but I’m scratching you off the list of potential NYI coaches.
I read your cover letter.
Dear NYI Management,
I would like to be considered for the positon of Head Coach. I feel I can strengthen the team with my objective strategy… IMPROVE THE ROSTER.
I hope you find my accomplishments adequate for this position.
Accomplishments:
McDonald’s Night Manager: Improved Profit margin by 5% by turning on the lighted sign outside during nighttime hours. I also improved customer satisfaction by nearly 30% by changing the speaker in the drive thru. I then used the extra profits to sack the whole night shift and replace them with the staff from the local Ruth’s Chris. The payroll was tripled, and we have less staff in general… but they all can make change and speak English.
Newsday Regional Delivery Manager: Decrease delivery times by firing old men with station wagons and replacing them with 18 year olds with new model pony cars. i found that nobody buys that rag anyway so they didn’t need the extra space provided by the wagons… and 18 year olds can’t figure out what I owe them, so overhead has decreased by 20%.
Personnel Manager, The Gaslight Lounge (is that still there?) Implemented dental survey. I replace all women missing more than two teeth. this caused us to close for several weeks, but when the women I fired from McDonald’s started looking for work I was able to re-open. Payroll is down. revenue is up… and I just installed a deep fryer to take advantage of cross-over skills… now if I could find a market for topless french fry delivery!
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
I voted other
I really like Steve Stirling both as as person and as a coach. I thought that he had a good understanding of his players while he was in BRI and that he was sacrificed too early, but then again who hasn’t, except for Milbury, in the past 15 years?
Wow... i don't even think of Stirling...
Except when I remember that “Wait until your father gets home” look… with his arms folded… staring down Janne Needimoreconsinantsinmyname…. Stirling had a bigger doghouse than Snoopy on Broadway.
[speculating] They brought in the SS because Yashin and DiP wanted to go to a trap where they both could be more effective… Ha!
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
staring down Janne Needimoreconsinantsinmyname….
Thats the main thing Stirling did that I really liked.
God, I hated JN.
Anyway, anyone like Renney? I admit it, I did.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 29, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yes!
He may have been the best meat through that grinder in quite some time. I would love to have him back here, and walking around a new arena with a cup… it just wreaks of awesomeness… but I think he’s well liked in Edmonton, and they’ll have patience with him… and he’ll have little more to work with there…. especially fans in the building.
BTW: I don’ t think anybody was a JN fan… another of those great Milbury break up a good thing deals. Well… maybe Isbister wasn’t going anywhere… but Torres… jeez… talk about admiting your a tool by hitting yourself over the head with a hammer.
translation…
You take DP and then Torres in the draft… instead of Gaborik or heatley and DP who you might have gotten in the second round…. You keep DP so he could later be the anchor of a sinking ship and you get rid of the piece of that deal that had the smallest chance of being productive…. FOR ANOTHER TOOL!
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Yes!
He may have been the best meat through that grinder in quite some time. I would love to have him back here, and walking around a new arena with a cup… it just wreaks of awesomeness… but I think he’s well liked in Edmonton, and they’ll have patience with him… and he’ll have little more to work with there…. especially fans in the building.
He isnt the head coach there, though… dont they all want to be head coaches?
I really hope the Isles at least consider him, maybe put some feelers out. He is a better coach than many gave him credit for being, and I think that a lot of Rangers fans realized that once he was gone.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 29, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Tom is the head guy there...
…and I don’ tthink they’ll kick him to the curb. Unlike our “rebuild guy” he had done things with NHL caliber talent that some people liked, and weren’t afraid to spend some money on.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
I always liked Renney. Seems like such a good guy with a good sense of humor. Wouldn’t mind seeing him as HC of the Isles….not sure how good he really is, but I think coaching the Rangers and coaching the Islanders are two very different things….Rangers have a bit more ego to deal with (deservedly so or not is up to you, dear reader.)
It comes down to talent. I think there is too much focus on the coaching.
I agree overall, and don’t want to say that goes without saying, but … for me it almost goes without saying. We’re probably parsing over a very thin portion of the recipe, the largest portion of which is, “Do you have talent or not?”
Still, I find it a great bar debate topic. I mean in the NHL parity is pretty strong and injuries may even be more important than coaching. Yet with the thin difference between middling along in the bubble and sinking to the bottom (going 0-9-1 vs. going 2-5-3), can coaching get you a couple wins here and there that make a difference in performance and perception?
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
What exactly can the coach do?
I guess a coach can implement a more effective system. A system that doesn’t give the opponents as many high quality scoring chances. A system that emphasizes territorial control and the importance of not turning the puck over. I don’t know what Gordon was telling the Islanders. The problem I have with the criticism is that its a bit short on specifics and a bit too vague.
This isn't really about Gordon...
It’s about the idea that they have been drafting players with no specific goal. WE have been making excuses for Gordon (because in his defense I don’t really rememebr him ever saying his players sucked, just that it was harder to get through to some), saying htat there was no talent or no talent compatable to what it appears he needs to be successful. My contention is that is true… but there is no real evidence that is going to change any time soon… including hte current draft class… that puts us more than 5 years away from being contrenders, and that’s not a timetable I’d be happy with.
As Ben and others have said, I don’t really know the specifics of what he’s preaching, all I know is that it’s not working… and if the current crop isn’t getting better you can’t put it all on them. I think Gordon can move take over a team with a better mix of talent and be successful. I didn’t announce that Gordon was innovative and brought NEW IDEAS to the table… thems be Snow’s words… well… the emperor’s new ideas ain’t working… and nobody’s helping him by drafting guys like Petrov and Kabanov… If you can’t get a guy like Comeau, who has been written about as such a good soldier when he was demoted, to fly straight, how the hell are you going to get Kabanov to conform.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
I enjoyed your post
You made allot of sense here…I feel a little better about getting rid of Gordon after that. Thanks
GORDON didnt enforce using enforcers
I think this was a major issue…Gillies pummeled that guy for smashing JT and it was awesome to watch…After that Martin came out and smashed a guy and took a penalty but thats ok and was right out of the Al Arbour handbook…AB would send out Vukota, the Baumer and Pilon all at once to smash heads if teams were taking liberties on our skill players…Gordon didnt seem to think any of that mattered…I was sick of watching our guys get run over with no repercussions…Im starting to feel that maybe Gordo wasnt good for this team anymore, good post again…
I don't know
I don’t usually like to get into discussions about enforcers, honestly, that’s a tough topic all around. However, I just think it isn’t all that easy to do what some people would like to see in this type of situations. Gillies did a perfect job on Boll last week, but it’s pretty rare the enforcer is right around when the star/rookie gets knocked into the boards. And let’s not pretend it was orchestrated by great coaching. JT had been on with PA and Moulson for a minute when that happened. He dumped the puck in in order to change, got hit and Gillies was there because Moulson had already gone off two seconds earlier…
Actually, it’s very tough in this league to make a true impact with an enforcer. Two games against Philly showed this very well indeed. One was last season at Philly, the first game of Gillies with the Islanders. They had previously been dominated physically by the Flyers, dressed Gillies for the first time and talked already back home about making it physical with Gillies. What happened? Philly knew that and consequently showed no interest to fight or do anything and just played the game and won easily. The Isles were embarassed. It was similar, albeit less extreme, this year around after that brutal game at Philly with the Nielsen/Briere incident, etc. and everyone expected revenge and some serious fighting in the following home game. What happened? No fights in the game at all and Philly won again. I mean I really don’t like Philly at all, but have to give them credit for what they did particularly in that game last year. Very smart indeed.
So, if anything, Gordon was outcoached in some such situations, but he actually did try. Anyway, if you want to get into this at all and in order to make a real impact you need physicality throughout your roster. I don’t mind seeing Gillies in the line-up every now and then, but I don’t think you can just add an enforcer to your roster and then expect the coach to make everything happen as to protect the stars and stuff. Maybe the Isles have lacked in that aspect lately, I don’t know, but I’m however not sure it’s fair to blame the coach.
I think the team will take on the attitude of the coach to an extent
by KO21 on Nov 29, 2010 8:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I coouldn't agree more...
… but look at the Gordon resume… 2+ years.
Year one… the first travesty was when sutter ripped his balls off in public, showed them to the crowd and threw them to the dogs. The first Nielson incident when Mottau sent him to 6 week vacationville. Hunter went after him half-heartedly (see bruno gervais) and sutton, who probably wanted a piece of Weight himself, sent out the goon squad basically telling Gordon to send out the F-bomb to exact revenge… “that’s me calling you a PU$$Y!!!” You’re response… okay… “we’ll get you next time”. Don’t you think that goes through the locker room. These are kids that played juniors where they know they have guys who are going to be bagging groceries the rest of their lives that HAVE THEIR BACK… and then when they get to the NHL they have a pacifist coach that thinks he’s at BC with a full cage on… that shit don’t fly here my brother. People punch you in the face in the NHL… and until that changes guys like JT, who take unnecessary elbows want to know that you’ll let the dog out of the yard once in a while.
2+ years… NO RESPONSE… 4 games… HUGE RESPONSE… If Gordon had the same opportunity there’s no evidense that he sends Gillies out there instead of Parentau or Comeau or whoever is going be the regular change there… because it most certainly wasn’t going to be 45 second a night Trevor Gillies.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Landeskog is one guy in the draft who would not look out of place on a top line
and who could physically challenge goon types.
I gotcha, still best to not have your important players fighting.
Gervais fractured cheekbone, Sutton(thumb, ducks), Souray broken hand, Stewart(avs) broken hand, etc. Bad things can happen when you fight.
Go isles or Go home.
Which one of these is not like the other...
Gervais fractured cheekbone, Sutton(thumb, ducks), Souray broken hand, Stewart(avs) broken hand, etc. Bad things can happen when you fight.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Landeskog on his role as top line enforcer
“Not only is Landeskog the first European captain in Kitchener’s illustrious history, but he earned the ‘C’ by doing all the things leaders need to do, not just by being a high-scoring winger. The Swedish national throws stiff hits, blocks shots and even fights when the time is right. All part of the job, according to him.
"It’s about doing whatever it takes to win the game," Landeskog said. "If I have to drop the gloves to protect a teammate, that’s what I’m going to do. And blocking shots is a big part of our penalty kill."
Today’s THN newsletter (see my fanshot).
Sounds like a solid all around guy. Going to be a decent 2-way nhl forward, and probably a captain if the spot is open.
Go isles or Go home.
yes, as I say
if Larsson and Couturier are off the board and he is still on when we pick, he should be our guy.
I like to hear that about him
I’m in the tank for Nugent-Hopkins, but I do like this about Landeskog. He could persuade me.
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RNH is just TOO small for me
We need to add size. And Landeskog is outscoring both SC and RNH right now.
He just has TOO many names for me
I hope he does a Pajaarvi and drops one.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
or pulls an XFL
It’d kill to see him skating around with a “Nuge” nameplate.
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Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Brazilian Soccer
Kaka would make a great nameplate or Ronaldinho IV.
The Last Ronaldo
Or Hopanugy has a nice ring to it.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
I liked Gordon's system, But...
I think what happened is that everyone in the east figured it out. The Islanders used a 1-2 player forecheck in the offensive zone. Most teams only use 1 forward in the offensive zone to forecheck, and they usually do it half assed, allowing the defenseman to go around the back of the net and break out. The Islander forwards would try an active forecheck in the offensive zone, pressuring defenseman to make mistakes.
The problem is that in the east, they figured out the best way to fight this was to just get the puck out of the zone asap. The less the defenseman dealt with the puck the better, let alone when a better puck moving defenseman had the puck. Most of the time though it was just a matter of bouncing the puck out of the zone off the boards.
I think this was also part of the problem of having so many young players who would work too hard to get the system going. It sort of explains the 3rd period struggles and the troubles away from home. I would say the problem was that the players would come out and not press enough, in the 2nd period press too much, and be burnt out by the 3rd.
I think Gordon’s system will work, there’s a reason he’s well regarded. It’s just too bad it didn’t work for the Isles.
"If I wear an Islanders game-worn jersey will that mean that I’ll score infrequently?" - rtarturo
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
"The System"
Does anyone know what it was? I mean, I’m sure lots of fans don’t know what “system” their team plays, but that is only because they don’t perpetually stink (feel like I’m drunk at the dinner table for saying that…crickets), and don’t advertise that the system is new, innovative and will cure AIDS and stuff.
I think the point is that as much as it was talked about, we really know very little about the workings, the outcome was poor, and very few vets believed in it. I also got the sense that it was not necessarily outlined in full, but when things went wrong, a new answer was given (not player adjustments, but system adjustments given by SG)…also that each individual may have gotten a different answer based on their abilities or their linemates (I have no basis for saying this other than player attitude and season outcome). That Therrien quote was interesting and something I’d never heard before. Maybe that system worked in the AHL because the talent level was thinner and just by the nature of movement of players between Juniors/AHL/Pro, individual players didn’t have time to adjust to it.
I’m starting to lean more toward it being a Gordon thing than a player thing. I like some of the recent shake-up moves, line pairings and the fact that DP is staying in the net (whether or not that is Capuano we’ll never know), which has NEVER happened. This is the NHL. Regardless of talent, these guys are pro’s and with hard work should be able to beat some people…at a minimum, look like they care and be competitive.
Sarcasm experience enhanced by Samsung (TM)
We probably can't clarify the system completely, just go off what we saw.
Pretty much what JP did and some others of us did. I can’t categorize it really, just explain some of the things it entails/does/uses-players.
Go isles or Go home.
Long story short: Hope the other team makes a mistake because we’re putting a lot of pressure on them. Then we score.
Never really caught on….
Like throwing a rock at a beehive to get the honey.
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by Keith Quinn on Nov 29, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No more calls...WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!
and DP was just getting fitted for his PINK PAD replacements….
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Great post BTW
Nice way of putting all of the questions in one spot for mocking and analysis!
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Great job JP. I agree with most.
The only thing I don’t agree with is that JT is Ryan Smyth. JT is going to be a Bigger, Stronger, More physical, Better shooting, better defensive, and probably even a better playmaking Ryan Smyth. JT’s game in juniors was fairly well rounded, he’s just going to take some time to mature and bring that game to the nhl.
I agree. Gordon’s system just didn’t seem to work well. When it looked like it was working, it just seemed that our players were on hot streaks. If a defensive minded/top-tier shutdown d-man in his prime like Brendan Witt doesn’t have confidence in the defensive scheme, then you know something is wrong with it. I wasn’t a big fan of Gordon’s system(however you want to categorize it as a whole):
-too much pinching
-too many long shifts
-too many tired players on the ice
-too many fast breaks
-too many forwards pressuring opposing d-men
-d-men playing naturally too high or away from key spots in the d-zone
and probably some more I’m forgetting.
As you stated, Gordon’s system wasn’t the right fit at all for the team/players he had or was given. In retrospect, I just don’t understand how Snow/Wang could hire Gordon for head coach or allow him to use this system with the players he had. In theory, it isn’t a bad system with the right players(but we were far from having the right players for the system). Do I see Gordon being successful with this system as a head coach for another nhl team? If given the right team/players and a 2-4yr adjustment period yes, but how many gm’s or people would let gordon have that much time to turn a terrible team around? Tough question.
I really like Capuano’s system, it isn’t bad as being what looks like to me a “hybrid trap system”. It could work and be successful. Problem is that this team is vastly undertalented and undermanned to be a serious nhl team. And with all the moves, injuries, and players on the roster this year, I just don’t see Jack making this team better then the 6th/7th worst team in the nhl at the end of the regular season. With that said, if Capuano can make this team finish better then 3rd worst in the nhl, I think he has done a good job and had a successful season given the circumstances. I really like this move and this system, it’s just still too early for me to determine if Capuano should be the long term answer at head coach for this team. But my fingers are crossed, I like what I’ve seen, and at the end of the season where we finish overall in the nhl is how I will determine how successful Capuano’s system/coaching is(and if he should stay/be-extended).
Go isles or Go home.
hmmmm...
-too much pinching
-too many long shifts
-too many tired players on the ice
-too many fast breaks
For a second there I thought you were talking about my HS dating experiences…
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
and all of those traits
sound like “not the right system for ice hockey”…let alone particular players. The bottom line is we will never know until he works again. But my thought is that pound for pound, if these are the inherent flaws in the system, it’s just a matter of time or a matter of talent until they’re exploited. Christ, if that was the outcome for a pee-wee team the hockey moms would riot!
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Nolan firing was a BIG mistake!
Nolan firing was a BIG mistake! He was the best coach the Isles had in a long time…..he would have changed this team around with what we have now.
Bill Stewart from the 98-99 season…..the coach that took over Milbury was an excellent coach too….but of course no patience for coaches on LI
Nolan may have been fired for circumstances beyond wanting more veterans.
It’s not like it would have been the first time Nolan was fired for his stupid “extracurricular activities”.
Go isles or Go home.
Are you in the "he slept with Hasek's wife camp"?
Because it might be time to get your news from CNN instead of the The Globe. You might be right, but I’m more in the camp that states Snow wanted a cronie behind the bench that wouldn’t give him shit as he tried to retool an empty wastepaper basket of a roster. I think Nolan would have wanted to sit at the draft table… I don’t rememebr Gordon at the draft table… I saw Kevin connoly, not Scott Gordon. That says alot about the kind of tent they operate under. Ask Chris Botta what garth Snow thinks about critics? I really can’t see Gordon giving a thumbs up to Aaron Ness… really? The guy who sent Sean Hill and Brendan Witt out to battle the lions was gonna get all wet in the schivies over Aaron Ness? Not buyin’ it. Nolan wanted guys like Sutton…but would have developed guys like Hamonic and he turns Matt Martin into a 14min power forward who has the other team pissin blood by the end of the second period. He wanted Guerin(Okposo) and Smyth(JT)… and you’re right, I didn’t mean to belittle JT’s potential… but if you give me somebody that plays with Smyth’s heart and JT;s hands… you’ve got something.
I think Garth Snow wanted that too, but wanted to have HIS GUY in there when it all came together… my point is, LOOK AT THE DRAFTS… there is a sprinkle of Scott Gordon, and a HEAP o’ NOLAN. And I think cappy can make it work… at least that’s the thought that I’m defending today.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Heard a lot of things about Nolan.
Some probably true, some lies. Not stuff you want your head coach doing either way.
But I agree with a lot of your stances. Great points made.
Go isles or Go home.
A lot was said about Nolan
From the veteran-heavy/rebuild-allergic stuff to the incommunicado with Bridgeport thing.
Ultimately the surest thing I see is he was a coach not hired by Snow, who was brought on as part of a power-sharing “committee” who later lost that piece of power he signed on for. If Snow was intent on canning him — or at least not trying to make it work — I don’t think he waits so late into the summer to make the move. They had a working relationship forced upon them, each had reason to wonder if the other was looking out for their best interests (I picture something like this: Nolan: “I need vets, any UFA vets, so we can compete and get into the playoffs.” Snow: “I need to sink or swim with what we develop, and end this cycle of 8th-9th one-and-done appearances.”), so it’s not surprising to me it didn’t work out.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
Nolan seemed to be in control
He wanted to win and would cater his system to h is players
by KO21 on Nov 30, 2010 9:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nolan was a great coach to get the most of a vet team, He was not the right one for a rebuild. He leaned on his vets to the determent of young player development. Bad coach for a rebuild and may be the wrong coach for today’s NHL
Its not Gordon’s system its the basic lack of depth and talent.
Their “Vet talent” are hurt or not talented (Hunter Weight Streit Sim). Their castoffs resumed their roles as spare parts elsewhere (Bergy, Tamby, Meyer, Jackman) or nowhere (Guerin, Park, Hilbert and Witt) and Sutton predictably resumed his IR stint. It wasn’t any system holding them back. For goodness sake Bailey 21 and JT
Can you really blame Gordon system for holding back Schremp, Grabner or Parenteau when other teams already passed on them? Hell you might argue it was Gordon that made Moulson the player he is.
When you lack talent you can’t remain competitive if you play a similar system. A pressure system can create opportunities when the talent isn’t there to do it. If anything the Go go system kept the Isles in the race last year.
Okay, so...
He leaned on his vets to the determent of young player development.
Opinion? At least some anecdotal evidence of this. I’m trying to figure out who’d you sit in the two years that Nolan was around, and what STAR has emerged under Gordon or somewhere else. That’s like saying that Eaton is a bean bag chair on skates and Gordon is playing him to the detriment of Klementyev. People keep saying that, but who the hell did he hold back. And look at the flip side… they didn’t SIGN any vets for Gordon and they rushed Bailey (of course that was to his benefit). Last year they made a big splash in the UFA market on the backline… so by the end of hte season they were helping hte development of Dylan Reese… thank god, because now he;ll be ready to be the designated bean bag chair.
Can you really blame Gordon system for holding back Schremp, Grabner or Parenteau when other teams already passed on them?
I’m not sure what one has to do with the other. The three players you’re mentioning are still getting their NHL feet wet. Nobody knows what their potential is, and I don’t think Gordon has held them back by giving them opportunities. I guess we’re going to see if they can be even more productive in a DIFFERENT system (not better, not worse, I’m not qualified to judge that… just different).
Hell you might argue it was Gordon that made Moulson the player he is.
Excellent point. But one 30 goal scorer does not make a winning hockey team. Especially one that is going to price himself off the Island in a few months.
I’m not putting the blame on Scott Gordon. I just don’t see him as being an effective coach with the current roster. And the talent pool isn’t going to get much better in respect to the “pressure system” that he has felt was necessary to be successful. We don’t have a group of young, fast, forecheckers in the fold… they need to make comeau, joensuu, martin and bailey work… because there isn’t any shiny new toys under the christmas tree…PAPA WANG IS OUTTA WORK!!!
If anything the Go go system kept the Isles in the race last year.
The loser point kept the Islanders in the race last year. The fact that they are out of the race in November with the loser point still a factor, is why Scott Gordon is the special advisor to the Minister of Communications (because he hasn’t done much else in 15 months to improve his roster).
It’ll be no small task to make this roster competitive for long stretches on the road, but it won’t be tough for cappy to improve on Gordon’s results. It’s like being in the jungle with your mother-in-law when you spot a lion… you don’t have to run faster than the lion, just faster than your mother-in-law.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Last year the Isles D was their biggest liability (3rd worst and not even close to the average). While the Offense had promise (another 10 goals and they would have been in the top half of league).
This year its the opposite. The Offense is terrible, one goal off the bottom and they are over 20 goals from league ave right now. At the current rate they will score 50 goals less then last year!
You have a great article and make some excellent arguements that the Gordo system does not fit what the Isles have for players and their strengths, that the team is not built ground up for a Gordo type attack. I’m playing a bit devils advocate here and I really hope Cap is the man for turning this around but I really don’t think it will be the turnaround. The offense is funked out and I may be wrong but I don’t see how playing a less aggressive type scheme will boost it.
We're not talking rocket science...
…and I honestly don’t think they can compete with the leagues elite offenses, but check out this Bingham interview [look for the 11/29/10 postgame].
I assume when they talk about changes at the bridge, they are talking about organizatonal-philosophical changes. Let’s just say that BP had a nice 40 save shutout with their best defensemen practicing for the Rangers. We also had a shutout of a broken team. YES, they need to fix the offense, but they do have the talent to play solid defensively… and they can score two or three a night to make it competetive when the stars align… that’s all I ask… put the wheels on the wagon and see how far it can roll without an engine… we’ll get to that eventually.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
In a lot of sports
I’ve seen very aggressive attacks score very little. Take boxing for instance…a very aggressive fighter will tire out quickly and leave many opportunities for counter-punching. Football, more interceptions and incompletions while slowing the clock. Basketball, more turnovers. Puck management and positioning will play a heavy role. I think generally, you’re right that less aggressive will not yield more goals, but maybe this system was hyper-aggressive toasted risky.
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by Keith Quinn on Nov 30, 2010 7:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Towards ^
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by Keith Quinn on Nov 30, 2010 7:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I liked "toasted risky" better
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
Half a Freudian slip right
“toasted Ricky” would have worked there…in rereading it, I wish I went full-Freudian!
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This team is going through the growing pains of all developing teams
No coach was going to get this team to contend with all the injuries it absorbed. It’s remarkable that the team did so well without Mark and Ox until all the other injuries piled up.
I liked Ted, but he wasn’t the right guy for the rebuild. If we had drafted Big Victor and Josefson in ‘09 as I had hoped would the team have developed better under Gordon? We’ll never know. Nino and Larsson, if Gordon were still coaching, are perfect fits for Gordon’s system.
The bottom line has to be: are the players we have in the system developing as well as they can under Gordon? I guess there are questions as to that. I would give Capuano the balance of the year to see how the team gels under his leadership and then consider over the summer whether he is the right guy going forward or whether another change is indicated.
Agreed. One big thing I wonder,
is if nino was playing under Capuano’s system(or another less complicated one) for his 9gm tryout, how much better could/would he have done? I think without a doubt, giving him more freedom would have meant more possibility for him to get shots off and be where he likes to be on the ice, but we’ll never know what would have happened.
Go isles or Go home.
Nino is where he belongs...
… I really like Nino. He is something the team definitely needs… but he’s not needed enough on Long Island to squelch his affectiveness when he’s fully matured. I like the path they took with Matt Martin. He played an extra year in juniors and found his high end. then he went to the AHL to see how he matched up against men. He didn’t DOMINATE, but he was physically competetive and showed enough to be given NHL time… this year (sans nino) he probably was an NHLer from day one… in a less demanding role, with the safety net of the AHL to catch him if he wasn’t being productive. Martin still has a 2-3 year window to be a 10-15 goal contributer… but he’s already advanced to being a second group PKer. Double his potential and that’s whree I see Nino. Top six, instead of middle six, PP and PK… but he needs to follow the path (SEE JOSH BAILEY)
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Figren
I know in the scheme of things this is small potatoes, but I have some issues with your assessment of him. The idea that “Whiteboard Hockey” ruined him is simply not true. He was never really a scorer at any level outside of the apparition of five goals and seven points in a six game stretch at the 2008 WJC. He was never really under Gordon’s tutelage either, Gordon’s first year he was in Sweden playing for Djurgarden and last year he spent the entire time in Bridgeport.
Looking at this resume outside of the 2008 WJC, it’s not a scorer’s profile. Before moving to the WHL, he averaged under a point per game for Frolunda’s U20 team, only scored 27 points his rookie year in the WHL and was under a point per game before injury derailed his sophomore season in the WHL. When he went to Sweden in 2008-2009, he only scored 9 points in 48 games.
What I think wound up hurting Figren wasn’t any coaching but his own ego was inflated by his performance at the 2008 WJC. When he was loaned to Djurgarden, he was given the same charge that Frans was given when he played for Malmo and Timra and David Ullstrom was given with HV 71 the last two years: “Hone your defensive skills. You’re a young kid playing against a league full of savvy vets. Cut your teeth on our third line, hone your defensive skills and learn how to play a solid two way game. This will make you a better all around hockey player and you’ll be the better for it.” While Nielsen and Ullstrom took this advice, Figren pouted and bitched the entire season about how he was being misused and his talents were unappreciated. I think that has more to do with Figren’s failures than anything Gordon did.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Thanks...you continue to be the shizzle!
I didn’t get the scoop on WHY he was so unproductive. I wish Newsday.com would stop posting that stuff in ancient hebrew.
I understand that some guys have boy v boy talent and never really get it man v man. I just hit the BP sight to see what he was doing numbers-wise this year and it wasn’t too bad. Watched some video and he was getting some face time with some opps… but the most impressive thing about my visit to BP,COM was Bingham talking about the changes they made in their system… and I’m going to assume that it is an organizational change. He said they changed up thier forecheck and their “nuetral zone forecheck” to force the puck to the perimeter. They feel that they have solid goaltending (though besides Poulin the numbers wouldn’t suggest that) and they don’t mind giving up 40 shots as long as the goalies can see them. They are taking a defense first approach… it’s a lot of hard work, but it’s paying off.
You know what… that’s what I’ve wanted to hear for two years. KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID… and look at the roster down there… the Hershey Bears they are not.
Jack's not nimble, Jack's not quick, but Jack can get another top five pick!
Well as the defense has degraded, Koskinen, Lawson and Poulin have all stepped up of late. They’re all keeping them in games they have no right to be in, like Poulin’s shutout of Milwaukee two nights ago, Lawson’s OT loss the previous night and Koskinen’s OT win the night before. So, yes their goaltending of late has really stepped up.
As for Figren, yes he has been playing better already surpassing his point totally of last year but I think a big part of it is he’s finally changed his attitude. He spent the better part of last year in Capuano’s dog house (He was a healthy scratch several games last year), which was an unfortunate continuation of his attitude issues he had with Djurgarden. Just the fact he’s playing every day shows that he might have finally kicked the bad attitude. Still, I don’t think he’ll ever be a scorer… which makes the fact he didn’t make the most of his time with Djurgarden all the more disappointing.
And finally on Capuano, while Gordon, Snow and he did have open communication and were very cooperative, I think Jack really did run his own ship in Bridgeport. When Gordon was coach, Jack didn’t really use Gordon’s system with the Sound Tigers. They have their own philosophies on teaching players; Capuano is a big fan of using video to show angles, reactions and relies on it as his major teaching aid while Gordon was the “whiteboard” type. He’s also lasted through three coaching regimes in the organization (Stirling-Shaw, Nolan and Gordon) so he’s he odes know the players, he’s been around them for years (He was either an assistant or head coach for 13 of the players currently on the roster at some point) seen what works with these players and what doesn’t.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
by David Hanssen on Nov 30, 2010 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
Get real
We all hope for the best but to think this New England chowder head that has never met a meal he doesn’t like will be the next Arbour or Bowman is quite a stretch. Nothing will change this joke until they spend some money.
chowder, Arbour and Bowman?
Sorry, but this gets the Blue Ribbon for Reading Comprehension.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
Hey! Get off the NE bit.....
…..seriously, there’s one thing that hasn’t been discussed very much – in this thread and possibly, in quite some time – if at ALL: how capable is ANybody associated with this team of evaluating precise needs for a given system/roster…..one of the big changes from the glory days of yore is it seems that Torrey and/or Devellano (to say NOTHING of Arbour) could easily identify which players would fill the gaps in their particular lineups. Which is why JP Parise and Butch Goring had the eye-opening impact upon the Islanders that they did…..the question IS, can we ever hope to see such catalytic moves/events again? I fear the answer is, NO.
While both the players I cited came to Uniondale as a result of trades (a means for acquiring needed players which seems to have diminished in the post-lockout NHL to a considerable extent) with the oft-mentioned/lamented ‘culture of losing’ as perceived by not just many of us fans, but many around the league – I think that there has to be a question asked of the present staff’s ability to fill those holes under such circumstances. Yes, Snow can make a valid point about a) there not being a lot of FAs to choose from and b) almost none interested in coming to LI, but can we be sure that Bill Torrey would’ve encountered SO much adversity? I suspect the answer to that question is ALSO, ‘no’ – all the same, doubtful he’d have had the same degree of success but it would’ve almost CERTAINLY been greater than what Snow has to show for himself (draft choices notwithstanding…..)
In short, I fear that what needs a new start as much as anything is the New York Islander tradition itself and I just don’t know if it can be revitalized in Nassau County; it may have just been too long a time that the distorted – but not entirely inaccurate – perception, correct or incorrect, has prevailed…..
I like it. Garth should eventually need to make the necessary trades to take this team to the next level.
Very few teams win or get to a cup without bringing in the necessary pieces to put them over the edge (Philly with Pronger+, Hawks with Hossa/Madden+, Pens with Guerin+, etc. ). I’d like to see Garth make a couple smart moves this offseason(even trades) and during next season to take us to the next level.
Go isles or Go home.
The question IS, though:
CAN he, given the present circumstances? Does he even know what – no, WHO – he needs to truly fix the more persistent problems? Are those players out there, and do they constitute little more than another ‘rental’ or rentals? As for Figren, again, while it WAS only an all-rookie tilt in Boston, he looked like he had a VERY good nose for the net……
Tough to say
We don’t have many examples of him adding outright important pieces (Streit was a shrewd one. Smyth, setting aside cost, was a good hockey fit who chose to flee. Wiz was a no-brainer for the price, but we’ll see how he’s evaluated if/when they enter extension negotiations.) Though he wasn’t landed, we can add Paul Martin to the equation since we know Snow offered Martin big buck$ according to his agent. He identified Nielsen’s value early and locked him up long.
So I think it’s an open question that’s not answerable at this moment. And the bigger challenge when the Martins and the Smyths turn you down is still the long-term assembly and retention of talent via the draft and player development — which is also an open question, incidentally.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
he'll probably have to wait
until the whole Shinnecock—Ilitches—Lighthouse thing is resolved and the franchise decides to move to Queens—or not.
Until the team has at least one winning season behind it.
In short, it will probably be a year or two before Garth can go for the fences in the way Philly did with Pronger. In the meantime, bringing in veteran role players is doable and needed.
While it may be still more NE flavor,
my friend on the South Shore just passed along that the Bruins are seriously shopping/dangling Michael Ryder, Blake Wheeler and even Patrice Bergeron to make cap room for when Marc Savard gets back…..thoughts? Mine are as follows: Ryder – another streaky, slightly callow type similar to Comrie; Wheeler – much like his namesake on the Island but HAS BEEN more productive; Bergeron – a FRAGILE but undeniably talented playmaker (still, do we need another of those, really?) And who might be demanded by Chiarelli for any of those 3? Problem is, almost everyone on this team (save for JT, Streit, MM and DP) looks like a bargain for salary-reducing purposes…..
Another note: per someone at the Hicksville store, the new yearbooks should be out before Christmas after all:)
Some discussion of that situation
Over in this FanShot.
Lighthouse Hockey: No Streit, no Okposo, no MacDonald. Not that we particularly care.
Don't see them moving PB
All they need to do for Savard is put Ryder through waivers…assuming they cannot find a buyer. The stickier wicket is when Sturm is ready to come back. He has already told the Globe that he is emotionally prepared to be put through waivers as well. If Chiarelli does trade, it will likely be for prospects as with Hunwick.
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
