DiPietro vs. Roloson: The complaint, denial and observation thread...
by Keith Quinn on Oct 26, 2010 10:58 AM EDT
Email
PrintIt seems like every post is starting to get dominated by the Ricky vs. Rollie argument so I thought I would start a Fan Post to lure the comments over.
Here is the idea, we can make arguments as to who should start here, and also have a game by game critique of the goalkeeper of record so that we have access to data for later arguments. So far to me, it looks like not too many people are using data to support their arguments, but rather taking a "you hate Ricky", or "DP sucks" stance.
Much like we did with the "first goal" threads, we will start it off with a thread for arguments (each comment should be a reply under that), one for games played Ricky, and one for games played Rollie, with each game being a reply with replys to that for noticing errors, strengths, weaknesses and anything else pertinent.
Some of these are starting to get a little testy, so let's remember, there is no animosity between us or any bad tidings for individual players, I'm sure all of us have the TEAM'S best interest at heart!
I attached a poll to see where we stand now and we can revisit monthly to see if we are right. Feel free to add anything I've overlooked to the comment thread and if it is rec'd enough, I will add it to the poll. Remember to look through some of the older threads and use some of the data and feel free to add any data as a reply to the "Data" thread.
Also, I think this is my first Fan Post...be gentle, I respond to criticism like DP's hip responds to back to back games!
Submitted FanPosts do not necessarily reflect the views of this blog or SB Nation. If you're reading this statement, you pass the fine print legalese test. Four stars for you.
160 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Stats as of 10/28
I don’t really think numbers mean much at this early/small sample stage, but nonetheless here they are on 10/28 before tonight’s Habs game when Roloson will get his 5th start:
Roloson: 4 starts, 120 shots, 9GA, 2.23GAA, 111 saves, .925 save%, .934EVsave%
DiPietro: 5 starts, 144 shots, 17GA, 3.31GAA, 127 saves, .882 save%, .874EVsave%
Even though I believe Roloson has been clearly better thus far, I’m not going off those numbers as they can change with one bad period and a yanking. I’m speaking more from watching each of them move and handle rebounds, etc.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and MacDonald were important.
Additional
Avg shot distance GP Shots Avg Distance
12 ROLOSON, DWAYNE NYI 4 119 37.03
47 DIPIETRO, RICK NYI 5 147 31.59
Shots 1-15 feet away GP Shots G SV%
9 ROLOSON,DWAYNE NYI 4 21 3 0.857
13 DIPIETRO,RICK NYI 5 31 5 0.839
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
Ooooh, fancy
And interesting.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and MacDonald were important.
From that Dobber Hockey
that you cited in that other post…You know of anything else that does fancy advanced stats?
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
I think they're the best for stuff like that
But ESPN — shock, I know — actually has some interesting/easily accessible stat categories.
And then of course there is Behind the Net, which requires some sifting and elaboration on just what the hell you’re looking at.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and MacDonald were important.
Stats of Opponents by Keeper
Combined points of opponents/GP
Rollie: 64/49
DP: 49/46
Sarcasm experience enhanced by Samsung (TM)
by Keith Quinn on Oct 30, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
IF NOT
for Rollie last night the score would have been much worse. Clearly on his game and that penalty shot sequence was priceless. Nice to have attitude now and then…
by upstateislesfan on Oct 28, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Perfect Situation
Rollie is 41 yrs old. DP is coming off an injury. The situation is perfect as it is right now. We have all of this debate and really what is best for the team is what we are doing with these guys right now.
Splitting the time is the right move. But I admit….I loved Rollie’s reaction to the Penalty Shot (Get Outta Here With That!!!!)
FB4Real
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
Pretty much my main points I took from posting in another thread:
Yes, that’s the big factor. Rollie has an extremely slim chance of being resigned.
And at most would be a backup if resigned because of his age. Rollie has nothing to do with our future as a team. That’s why the DP thing needs to be worked out asap. And it’s not like DP isn’t playing terrible. Just slightly subpar overall so far, and that was expected. Give it time and DP will play good or become the backup this year eventually, or even injured again. That’s how I see it.
(My response to someone stating we can’t wait forever to make a decision on DP)
What do you mean wait forever?
He is on a VERY LONG contract right now, and I’d much prefer to find out at what level of play he can play for us this year in 40starts+(with a solid amount of consecutive ones) then seeing him in a backup role this year and playing only 20gms and us going into next year on another tryout basis with him because he was never really tested this year. If we don’t experiment and push him now, it’s just prolonging the inevitable thing that must be done. I agree with Gordon’s decision to give DP his starts now for better or worse of the team. DP and us need to see what DP’s got to determine his future with the team, sooner then later. Would you prefer we do this next year when we could possibly be serious seed playoff contenders as opposed to now?
Go isles or Go home.
Why ASAP though?
Right now they are in the thick of things, they can win games, and DiPietro entered hardly having played in two years, much less six months. That is not a context when I would start the weaker goalie (thus far) in consecutive games in Month 1 — rather I’d be easing him back in.
The 82-game season is veeeery long and will provide plenty of opportunities (Roloson slumps or gets injured, etc.) to test DiPietro harder and learn what they have — so there is no need to rush him in October when, in all likelihood, there will be chances to test him further in December, or January, or February.
But I’m not a DP hater — and I actually don’t have too much problem with how they’ve parceled the starts so far, since Roloson has mostly drawn the tougher teams. But I don’t get why there is urgency to test him hard in October.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and Bailey and MacDonald were important.
by Dominik on Oct 26, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ASAP as in this year.
Sometime this year, DP should get 40starts and numerous 2-3gm starts in a row. He NEEDS to be tested now(this year). Not next year when we have bigger hopes and less major injuries. And it isn’t like DP hasn’t shown signs of great light. That Tampa Bay game DP played great, no doubt about it. But he will have his slips as seen in other games. Rollie, has been solid so far and great overall last season. But remember that he his 41 and has had his hiccups last season too. Looking into the stats, Rollie gave up 3 or more goals in 32 of his 49(roughly 2/3rd) games started last year and gave up 4 or more goals in 17 of his 49 starts last year(over 1/3rd of his starts he gave up 4 or more goals per game, the stats don’t lie). Part of that fault is us being ranked the 5th worst team in the nhl last year, but you definitely have to put considerable blame on rollie too. He has had times of light, but also many times of rough performances too. You have to play the cards your dealt for better or worse.
So don’t judge for a few hiccups last year, because rollie had his share of Mr.Hyde performance last year and the blame can’t be put on the team for rollie’s numerous bad games.
But I can see your view dom. Right now give Rollie more of the starts because he’s got a hot hand and throw DP from backup duty now to starting duty(like now) later when Rollie turns to Mr.Hyde again. Rollie is good, but he’s no ryan miller/luongo right now on the bench. Remember that guys.
Go isles or Go home.
Oh okay, I hear you
I agree they need to know by the end of this season. They need to find out if they have a healthy but average goalie locked into a long-term deal! I just wish they’d started off giving Roloson the bulk of the work and let DP earn his.
It’s funny though, there are definitely not just two sides to this infinite debate — there’s about two hundred of ’em.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and Bailey and MacDonald were important.
NEEDS to be tested now(this year). Not next year when we have bigger hopes
i disagree. don’t pop my playoff balloon on Oct 26th. We don’t give up this year in Month 1 when we’re in playoff position so we can test Ricky. Team should capitalize on wins while other top teams struggle (hi there, Jersey Boys).
it’s not like DP isn’t playing terrible. Just slightly subpar overall so far
he is playing terrible.
his SV% is .882 (37th out of 40)
Roli is ranked 5th as in TOP 5
GAA
Roli ranks 5th at 1.65 (5th best)
DP ranks 34th (that’s 6th from bottom)
Goals Against
Roli is 3rd best
DP is 29th (actually shows up in Top 30 for once – but barely)
Rollie gave up 3 or more goals in 32 of his 49(roughly 2/3rd) games started last year
Comparing DP’s stats this year (with the upgraded defense of Wiz, Eaton, Jurcina) to Roli’s stats last year is not a fair comparison. Aside from Streit, last year’s D featured Bruno and some rookies, Witt & Meyer aren’t even in the league anymore – it’s apples and oranges.
NEVER say PLAYOFFS and OCTOBER 26th in THE SAME SENTENCE.
I don’t know what’s more of an insane argument: You calling us playoff favorites after 8gms or thinking Rollie giving up 4goals or more in over a 1/3rd of his starts last year as the D’s fault more then his. Sure rollie had sparks of light, but he is no savior and has his bad games like the rest of most nhl goalies.
Do you honestly think Rollie is head and shoulders better then DP is right now? How much better do you think our record would be right now if Rollie started all of DP’s games? I honestly don’t see us being more then 1 or 2pts better then we are now with rollie in net for dp’s games, and then you have to throw in the whole age and rest factors. I just don’t see Rollie as that much of an upgrade over DP right now. Sure, pull stats from anywhere you want, but DP has shown in the past like Rollie too that he is a quality starting goalie when on his game and both have their hiccups. It just so happens that Rollie is hot right now and DP is on/off and a bit rusty. That’s the truth. But whether you want it now or later, DP NEEDS TO GET HIS CONSECUTIVE STARTS and 40GMS+ STARTING THIS YEAR, FOR THE BEST OF THE FRANCHISE. End opf story.
Go isles or Go home.
i didn’t call us “playoffs favorites”. I said the team was in “playoff position”. there’s a big difference. i was being facetious about the playoff balloon comment.
Yes, Roli has been better than DP right now. obviously, the sample pool is small with only 8 GP, but the differential in their league ranking is stark. I wasn’t trying to imply Roli is the best in the league – just emphasizing he is the better goalie right now on the Isles.
Considering the Isles were out of the playoffs by 9 pts last year, every point counts even if it is only 1 or 2 points in Oct. MTL made it last year by 1 pt over the NYR, benched their franchise goalie and went to the Conference finals. It can happen. Play every game for 2 pts, not to test DP’s hips and kneecaps for 10 consecutive starts.
So far, DP has OTL (Dal – in 1st period he allowed 2 goals on 5 shots), W (thanks to Rangers penalties), OTL (Pit who were winless in their new arena and struggling 1-3), OTW (TBL – thanks to JT’s one-timer and Dan Ellis is playing poorly so far, ranked right behind DP in SV% at 38th).
in 5 games, Rick has 3 OT, a bad loss to FLA and a lucky win against the NYR. so far, NOT impressive and not the best chance to win 2 pts.
The best of the franchise now lies with Tavares and the kids, not DP. I agree he was a “quality starting goalie” – before serious injury and major surgery. He was also in his early to mid-20s. Some guys have short careers – he may be one of them. He has a lot to prove this year – but not necessarily right now. he has plenty of time on his contract.
enoughsaid
The fact that you refuse to give DP ANY credit at all for any win proves to me that he will NEVER be able to convince you that he can rebound. he was outstanding in the TBL game, but you refuse to acknowledge this. You actually credit Ranger penalties for a win?? and is he supposed to beat ANY team that is struggling despite the talent level on that team?? The bad loss to Florida was a TEAM loss, atrocious defense, only one guy contributed offensively. So, in closing, no matter what Ricky does, you will NOT be convinced. And your talk of playoff position after 8 games is just silly. When you can prove to me that Those games would have been wins with Rollie in goal I might give your argument credence.
by upstateislesfan on Oct 27, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, there is no persuading his DP hate.
And agreed about the last 3gms, he has made HUGE steps. The TEAM played horrible as a whole against florida, not just the couple of dp hiccups. DP played GREAT IN TAMPA AND PITTSBURGH. GREAT AND I STAND BY IT. To put it in easier to understand ways. DP gave up 2 goals in Tampa Bay=1 a breakaway and the other a St.Louis shot from 4/5ft out to a top corner(right?). NEITHER you can blame DP for. The penguin game, DP gave up 3 goals=1 to one of the best powerplays in the nhl on 4v3 action, another to a rebound from an uncovered rupp 6ft away after do made a stretched out save and the other when DP was COMPLETELY screened by a pen from view of the shot. None you can honestly blame DP on. And that’s without even mentioning at least a few highlight reel saves DP has made in those games. To call DP a has been is just crazy, he recently has shown some great signs of light. Sure his 1st 2gms were a bit rough(although the rangers powerplay was doing really good the 2nd game), but he has taken major steps as of lately. CAN YOU BLAME A GUY FOR HAVING PRETTY MUCH 3 SEASONS OFF AND BEING A BIT RUSTY TO START THE SEASON? Because that’s what happened those first couple games and you clearly expect him in all star from to start the season. Not to mention, playoffs brought up again. WHY are you so hung up on playoffs 8gms in? Who cares about points, if the playoffs happen they happen, if not then no biggie this year. Say we make a 7-8th seed, do you really expect us to win a cup this year? And the point of making the playoffs is to win the cup right? So do you understand your hopes/theories don’t make sense? If this was that year, DP would be backup right now, nino wouldn’t have been given a 9gm tryout, Gillies would probably be getting more bench time, Garth would have made at least 2 more trades and signings at the cost of future draft picks/prospects, and more “emergency cup moves”. BUT, THIS ISN’T THAT YEAR! This is another rebuild year whether you like it or not, so calm down about the playoff talks 8gms in while 2 of our best players are on the IR right now(streit and KO), while only 1 is expected back in a couple months. This is just a ludicrous thought you have since we are off to a good start, so chill out and leave the isles plans how they are. This is far from playoff/cup mode to deal with the team, so let garth and gordon do what they have to do for the best of the team’s future even if we miss the playoffs by a couple points.
Go isles or Go home.
Well then
Why be competitive at all? Waive weight, Hunter, Bruno, and Sim and bring up Hamonic, deHaan, Martin and Ullstrom. Why not find out what these guys are all about too. We know DW won’t be around for long and everyone knows TH, BG and JS are marginal at best (sarcasm). And the beauty of that argument is that there is one guy in there that is a former all-star that is hoping to return to his all-star form.
Look, I think we ALL get it, but it look like the team got some guys to be competitive enough to build excitement, but plays guys that will keep us crappy enough to still continue to build. Which is fine, but SG and GS stated that the goal is the playoffs (so guys in this thread should not be blamed for the playoff talk). You know, if there was an honest, “yeah we HOPE to make the playoffs but are still in an organizational assessment phase this year so everyone relax” statement, then I’d feel differently and would have expected and accepted this.
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 27, 2010 12:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Stupid pr department and their stupid pr dirty tricks!
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 27, 2010 1:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why be competitive at all? Waive weight, Hunter, Bruno, and Sim and bring up Hamonic, deHaan, Martin and Ullstrom. Why not find out what these guys are all about too.
Cant… NHL prevents this by having a cap floor.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 27, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 27, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, woops...concussions!
So, ah, those guys are going to be spending some time on the LTIR. Like, you know…the rest of the year.
Hell, you don’t even need them to suffer a new concussion, just declare that they’re suddenly suffering post-concussion symptoms.
There’s always a loophole if you’re willing to spend the money.
Lighthouse Hockey: I go there for their taste in beer.
apples to oranges
We already know Ricky is/was an allstar. Now we just need to see if we can get him back to that form. The rest of those guys haven’t shown they can perform at the NHL level. Huge difference.
I think we have to get Ricky starts to determine what to do with the investment (his contract). If he performs, great, if not… tough choices to be made but since Wang loves him it will be interesting.
Rollie’s awesome last year notwithstanding the goalie situation should be resolved sooner rather than later. Rollie won’t be around this year and if Garth needs to make a move for a number 1 goalie (in the case that DP can’t do it) then wouldn’t you rather he be armed with that information now rather than later? In terms of what is best for the team long term I think it makes sense to have the knowledge now.
Now let’s go eat a god damn snack!
the purpose of the season is to make the playoffs. play the best goalie so you have the best chance.
the point of playoffs for the team is to make money and for the players to gain more competitive experience in a series elimination which doesnt happen during the season.
Who cares about points, if the playoffs happen they happen, if not then no biggie this year.
is that what you tell Tavares and the other players in the locker room?
C'mon now
The actual point of ANY season is the Stanley Cup. Do you think we are there yet?? Do you think Tavares and company want to settle for the 8th seed and an early out?? Is that what you will settle for?? NOT ME. I want to be the team NOBODY wants to play in the playoffs, and we are clearly not there yet. your clear dislike for DP and your inane comments about playoffs (after 8 games) indicate that you have no desire to enter into serious discussion. Your mind is already made up and we get your point.
by upstateislesfan on Oct 27, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I think most athletes
would like to die trying. Isn’t the 8th see and an early out better than the 12th seed and golf? Your overpersonalization of the “hate” for “Ricky” and calling people “insane” is a bit disturbing, but I wll tell you right now, I don’t like him…I’ve never liked him, and it’s not because of anything other than his consistently erratic play and the team’s consistently erratic behavior as it pertains to his health and his play. Either way, the pro-Rollie side seem to be going with their perception of his play, while the DP side appears to be going with “what if”, and “we should see”. None of which is wrong, but just because their is a difference of opinion does not mean that anyone here would like anything bad for DP. As a matter of fact, despite my dislike for HIS PLAYING STYLE, I would love it if he had Rollie’s numbers and vice versa and would be making the argument the other way.
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
Inane not insane
I suggested that playoff talk this eaerly in the season was “inane”. I try really hard not to be insulting. And I stand by my belief that if you have a goalie signed long term, and one who is not, it only makes sense to see what you can expect. However, certain minds here are closed no matter what Rick does and I simply pointed that out.
by upstateislesfan on Oct 27, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHA
Sorry! Hallucinated an ‘S’!
And I agree, you may be right about minds being closed. Mine is to a degree not even because of the actual net play, but because I haven’t seen enough evidence that DP has changed the nomadic puck handling part of his play that creates problem defensive situations. However, if he can turn that around, I’m all for him, and would love to be able to root for him because I want the team to win…but alas me thinks he cannot change his stars.
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
Yeah
On this I agree completely. Unfortunately, Ricky sometimes thinks he is Martin Broduer. His “nomadic” play frustrates me and makes me nervous. Understand this: If Ricky proves that he cannot handle the #1 spot, I am for dropping him like a bad habit. All I want is for him to have the opportunity. And for talk about the playoffs 8 games into the season as a reason for denying him that opportunity to cease and desist.
by upstateislesfan on Oct 27, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Group Hug!
Let’s! Go! Is-Lan-Ders!
We should close the thread now…I feel like we’ve just achieved peace in the middle east!
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 27, 2010 2:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We still have a little debating to do. lol
But group hug back to you too big guy. lol
Go isles or Go home.
certain minds here are closed no matter what Rick does and I simply pointed that out.
rick hasn’t done much over the last couple of years. I believe the goalie earns his starts. Play the best goalie not the one with the longest contract. Based on stats, i prefer Roli which you interpret as hate for dp. Appreciate calling my comment inane. Let me know when it’s ok to say playoff – i trust your expertise on the matter.
don’t get huffy because I called you out for using the P word after 8 games. And I am not the only one who found that statement ridiculous. Not meant to be insulting. And a player should NEVER lose his job due to injury.
by upstateislesfan on Oct 27, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I am fully with you here.
Aside from name calling, which I am sure upstate was clearly not directly attacking you. Talking about playoffs and 8gms(or less then 1/10th) into the season is a crazy statement. AND BASED ON YOUR MUST WIN LOGIC, would mean some very drastic moves and changes to our team, lineup, and more just so we can “make” the playoffs. This isn’t a cup year so why mortgage the future and team for this one year? I’m not sure you understand the whole theory of we must win now, and the whole winning now attitude that goes along with it. I can understand that we haven’t won in a while, but to force the playoffs in an already injury-plagued year and cause the team cap issues in the next couple years, plus prospects/picks lost, kids less developped, and more just so we make it to the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs is a completely idiotic idea in itself. IF gordon made the rollie move, it would show that he doesn’t care about the future as much as he cares about now which shouldn’t be close to the reality of this whole situation. Look at the big picture, most writers predict us finishing in the bottom 3 of the eastern conference, if we prove them wrong, a near best case scenario is barely sneaking or missing the playoffs(and that’s a BIG best case scenario), add the MUST WIN moves to make this team get a secure spot in the playoffs and not only have we taken a step back in the rebuilding process for the future, but we could have also cost our team from being a repeat playoff team for 4/5 consecutive years+ at the cost of making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs this year. Get the whole big picture, win now/pay later attitude we are trying to avoid? I don’t believe we should give up, but aside from the things that must be found out this season, we shouldn’t be pulling a few teeth and nails just to make the fans happy for a playoff birth and loss of a few team answers and picks/prospects/starters for the future.
Go isles or Go home.
Reread this about DP:
And agreed about the last 3gms, he has made HUGE steps. The TEAM played horrible as a whole against florida, not just the couple of dp hiccups. DP played GREAT IN TAMPA AND PITTSBURGH. GREAT AND I STAND BY IT. To put it in easier to understand ways. DP gave up 2 goals in Tampa Bay=1 a breakaway and the other a St.Louis shot from 4/5ft out to a top corner(right?). NEITHER you can blame DP for. The penguin game, DP gave up 3 goals=1 to one of the best powerplays in the nhl on 4v3 action, another to a rebound from an uncovered rupp 6ft away after do made a stretched out save and the other when DP was COMPLETELY screened by a pen from view of the shot. None you can honestly blame DP on. And that’s without even mentioning at least a few highlight reel saves DP has made in those games.
DP has made noticable steps since his 1st 2 starts this season. To think the DP we saw against Dallas is the same one we saw against the pens/lightning is a ludicrous comment. DP right now IS NOT the rusty DP that allowed 4goals on 22shots against dallas, DP is the regaining form DP we have seen in the last 3 games(he had a couple mental mistakes in Florida, but it could happen a bit still). I would even go as far as saying DP has played good to great in 2/3 of his last 3 starts, I would even go as far as saying that his 2 starts IN Pittsburgh and Tampa that he played like a slightly above average starting goaltender. THAT’S THE THING YOU DP HATERS/DISLIKERS NEED TO GET into your head. DP is MAKING PROGRESS. DP has SHOWN SIGNS OF LIGHT THAT HE COULD RETURN TO GREAT FORM. DP is 3 YRS REMOVED FROM HAVING REGULAR STARTS AND IS A BIT RUSTY. I don’t know about you guys, but from my perspective, to think that all of the good that DP has shown in the last 3gms as nothing positive is crazy. What HE HAS DONE given his injuries so far is simply put as amazing. Having 3 knee surgeries and 1 hip surgery in the past few years and still being able to play your sport at a high level, let alone be able to function properly outside is simply a miracle of sorts and SHOWS the heart of a true competitor. MOST players would retire after the 2nd or 3rd surgery but RDP has the spirit of a true competitor. You have to realize this stuff. To think a guy who has played barely any games while being in and out of the operating room for 4 major surgeries and not be a little rusty or off is insane. And what DP has shown the last few games, as I clearly stated above, is an example of HUGE steps of progress. If DP has shown this much progress so far, why try to impede it because Rollie is playing a little better right now in 3 spot starts then DP has shown over the majority of the last 3gms? I think you are clearly underrating DP’s progression, overrating Rollie’s spot performances/past play, or both. Which is it? Because I know the DP I have seen of late is not the DP that you think is a washed up backup at best. Here’s another question that should be interesting to see an answer to: Rate DP right now: Adequate backup? Average Starter? Good starter? Below average starter? Bad backup? And why?
I’m waiting for this response with great anticipation……
Go isles or Go home.
what’s yr email? would you prefer to meet? there’s a lot here to respond to. i don’t have as much time as you do to discuss it but since you’re waiting with such great anticipation, i don’t want to let you down.
E-mail? Meet?
I simply asked you to answer some questions. You’ve typed over 6/7 paragraphs in the last day, so I assume you have the time to type up some answers. And I’m pretty sure meeting me in person would take a lot more time then typing a response over the internet. lol. E-mail is the same as typing it up here, so just go ahead and give me a response. If I spoke from the heart, like I want you to in your response to my above post, it wouldn’t take literally more then 10-15mins TOPS. If you don’t have that time on your hands, which I am pretty sure you do(it’s equal to an intermission time for the hockey game tonight), then leave it be and I will think you have no response. Simple as that.
Go isles or Go home.
That's not the whole story
In twelve of the three goal games, Rollie saved over 90% of the shots he faced, including of course his 58-save masterpiece in Toronto. It wasn’t the only one:
opening night, 39 saves in a 3-3 tie with Pittsburgh*
Oct 21, 35 saves in a 3-3 tie with Carolina*
Oct 30, 37 saves in a 4-3 OT win against Washington
Nov 7, 31 saves in a 6-3 win against Atlanta
Nov 11, 37 saves in a 4-4 tie with Washington* (and nine out of eleven in the shootout)
Nov 14, 38 saves in another 4-4 tie, Florida*
Notice, that’s SIX such games in his first eleven starts of the season! Hell of a way to treat a 40-year old. (And those ties, I don’t care who wins the shootout after, I’m counting them all as tied.)
Dec 9, 32 saves in a 3-2 loss to Torotono
March 2, 41 saves in a 5-3 win against Chicago
March 6, 31 saves in a 3-2 loss to Boston
March 9, 32 saves in a 3-2 loss to Philadelphia
March 27, 34 saves in a 4-3 OT win against Columbus
Overall, 30 of his 50 games, he had a saves percentage of better than .900, and another game he was exactly at .900. That’s not terrible. It’s just that the Isles let him see more rubber than I-95.
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
by mikb on Oct 26, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And Rollie played 19 out of his 50nhl games last year with a sub 90%/.900 save percentage too.
Say Rollie faced a ton of shots: Fact is on that, 17 OTHER NHL GOALIES FACED MORE SHOTS then him last year. So the whole mileage argument shouldn’t be in question. He faced right around the shots on goal what your average nhl starting goalie faces a year. Mileage shouldn’t be part of this argument. Rollie faced an average of 31.1shots/game. Not an insane number, a bit above average but not unseenly overwhelming. He has his hard nights and he had his average nights. Rollie was good last year, but remember people that he isn’t a superstar goaltender that completely changes a game like ludqvist or miller. He is good, even a bit better then DP right now. But he is no superstar, and DP getting his starts right now have marginally to not at all hurt the team as a whole right now and DP needs to get his starts THIS season so we don’t have the DP problem unresolved going into next season. Does anyone really want an unsure/unknown DP projected to start 40gms+ next year with no idea what he is likely capable to do?
Go isles or Go home.
I hear that
I’m not saying to mothball RDP, I’m saying Roli was very good for us last season.
Rollie faced an average of 31.1shots/game. Not an insane number, a bit above average but not unseenly overwhelming.
I actually did the calculation of shots per 60 minutes, and Rollie checked out at 32.21. Of the seventeen other guys ahead of him, only two had more shots/60, Jonas Hiller at 33.43 and Tomas Vokoun at 33.79. (Jeff DesLauriers was also above him by this metric, 32.79 shots/60; there may be others but I didn’t have time to do all the math.) So really, he did get pelted an awful lot. Every last person above him on that list got more games and ice time, thus more total shots, without being as busy. (Marty Brodeur faced a piddling 26.7 shots per 60 minutes, for example.)
Fourth on the list sounds a little better than eighteenth…
And Rollie played 19 out of his 50nhl games last year with a sub 90%/.900 save percentage too.
Well, yes… 50 – 31 = 19. :/ That’s 38%. Let’s check some of the other goalies in the league.
DesLauriers, EDM – yeah, the Oil sucked out loud… but it started with their goalies. DesLaurier stopped less than 90% of the shots a full 24 games out of 48 – 50%.
Vokoun, FLA – 19 out of 63, 30.2%. This is probably the best goalkeeper in the league right now.
Hiller, ANA – 22 out of 59, 37.3%.
So that’s the three guys facing more shots than Roli last season – one well below, one well above, one comparable. A few others:
Craig Anderson, COL – 20 out of 71, 28.2%. Truly incredible season.
Brodeur, NJ -26 out of 77, 33.8%. It pays to relax.
Lundqvist, NYR – 23 out of 73, 31.5%.
Miikka Kiprusoff, CLG – 22 out of 73, 30.1%.
Ryan Miller, BUF – 16 out of 69, 23.2%. Pretty much always gives the Sabres a shot.
Roberto Luongo, VAN – 24 out of 68, 35.3%.
Consistently better among the better keepers in the league. Among similar goalies in games played and overall stats, Roli does better.
Chris Mason, StL – 22 of 61, 36.1%
Ondrej Pavalec, Atl – 20 of 42, 47.6%
Johan Hedberg, Atl – 18 of 47, 38.3%
Antero Niittymaki, TB – 19 of 49, 38.8%
Jose Theodore, WSH – 18 of 47, 38.3%
Carey Price, Mtl – 15 of 41, 36.6%
Tim Thomas, Bos – 15 of 43, 34.9%
Cam Ward, Car – 16 of 47, 34.0%
Marty Turco, Dal – 19 of 53, 35.8%
Brian Elliot, Ott – 22 of 55, 40.0%
Cristobal Huet, Chc – 23 of 48, 47.9%
That’s five better, six worse. And in RDP’s four full seasons:
03-04 – 17 of 50, 34%
05-06 – 30 of 63, 47.6%
06-07 – 21 of 62, 33.9%
07-08</1> – 32 of 63, 50.8% (!!!!)
That’s 100 out of 238, or 42%.
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Numbers
You can finagle numbers ‘til the cows come home and it does not change the fact that the islanders MUST find out if ricky can play. HE is the one signed beyond this year, HE is the younger of the two. I posted Roloson’s 2009-10 numbers on another thread and found them average at best. 23-18-7 3.00 GA .907 SP. NOT superstar stats by any means and certainly not good enough to play 60 games this year. IMHO, Rollie is a good goaltender not a great one and does not significantly improve the Islanders playoff chances. And speaking of the playoffs at this point of the season is patently ridiculous.
by upstateislesfan on Oct 26, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is the response to that post...
His lifetime numbers are still better than DP as far as Sv% and GAA go. Also, his entire career has been on awful teams sans the year Edmonton went to the finals. He played for the expansion Wild and us. He’s been given about the same lot that DP was dealt. Rollie is no Miller, but RDP is worse lifetime than most starting goalies and many backups.
Brent Johnson 2.62/.904
JS Giguere 2.52/.913
Mike Smith 2.70/.906
Steve Mason 2.67/.908
Pascal Leclaire 2.90/.903
Curtis McElhinney 3.11/.901
Chris Mason 2.57/.913
Brian Elliot 2.67/.906
Dan Ellis 2.68/.911
RDP 2.80/.905
Rollie 2.65/.910
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
Then I respond,
DP has only PLAYED 4 SEASONS as a STARTING GOALIE. Sample size is too small. And of those 4 seasons DP was a starting goalie, he took us to the playoffs TWICE. That’s a 50% success rate for a goalie who plays worse then all these other goaltenders your talking about. Pretty damn high playoff success rate for a bad goalie if you ask me :). Rollies playoff success rate: 25% or half of DP’s success rate as a starting goalie. For someone who isn’t a good goalie, like most of you say, DP has had a lot of success in his short career thus far for a subpar goalie. Just saying…..
Go isles or Go home.
by OzzyFan on Oct 26, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm new here, so mostly just observing...
But, to say that DP has a 50% playoff success rate and Roli a 25% playoff success rate is pretty misleading considering Roli played a huge role taking the Oilers all the way to the finals. With all due respect, a quick look at their playoff stats should tell you who has more playoff success. Roli 18-12 2.56GAA, .915sv% and DP 2-7 2.60GAA, .904sv%.
I understand you likely meant success in leading his team to the playoffs, and this isn’t a bash against DP, just I really think you are trying to minimize Roli’s actual success in the playoffs to make your point.
If Roli hadn’t been hurt and the Oilers had gone on to with the cup, would you still say Roli only has a 25% playoff success rate compared to DP’s 50%?
by LateNightOilFan on Oct 28, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Also,
With all the stats bantering going back and forth, if you look at post-lockout regular season stats (prior to this year) while healthy, (Roli, ‘05-’10; DP, ‘05-’08) you have:
Roli 2.85GAA, .909sv% while facing an avg of 31 SOG/60 min TOI over 267 GP
DP 2.81GAA, .907sv% while facing an avg of 30 SOG/60 min TOI over 188 GP.
Differing styles, ups and downs for both, but pretty close in most recent stats while healthy. DP has a slightly higher win % (88/188 = 46%) compared to Roli (107/267 = 40%).
I get the “play DP to see what you have” and “give him games to get him back up to speed” arguments, but I also am wary of pushing DP too hard and not utilizing Roli enough for the second year of his contract. In other words, Roli, while not in the future plans of the Isles, could help the future plans by ensuring DP isn’t pushed too hard this season and completely ready to take over as full time, undisputed starter next season. DP’s best games this season involved 3 & 5 days rest beforehand. It’s still very early, but there’s a fine line between seeing what he can do and over-extending him. The Isles have been careful to use Roli to give DP time to recover, he is playing well, they may need to keep doing that this season, which will benefit DP for the future.
by LateNightOilFan on Oct 28, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome,
and I don’t know about pushing DP too hard. Because if he isn’t challenged this year, then we won’t know what we have going into next year with him. Sure we aren’t going to have DP start 65gms this year, but he needs to be tested enough to know if we should or shouldn’t shop for another starting goalie next year. Either way, DP in his recent 3gms hasn’t shown that he is bad, I’d say his overall play is about average starter to slightly above average starter worthy. And Rollie has played like a slightly above average starter last year and this year. Not miles ahead of DP, so this argument of who should get more playing time is neglible to me. DP either way should get his 40starts(which is a must to evaluate him this year for next year in my mind) as long as rollie isn’t declared the starter, and I don’t think Rollie should be declared it given all the circumstances and variables seen/in-play.
Go isles or Go home.
My point was that we can play with numbers all day,
but in the end it’s all subjective. I could respond with Rollie had greater playoff success then DP because DP’s 2 playoff appearances were when the isles were the 8th seeds playing 1st seed teams and Rollie played on better team’s going in(6th/8th seeds that were hot team’s), so the playoff experiences shouldn’t be compared based on that fact.
Go isles or Go home.
hold on a minute
Why is it “finagling numbers” when I post them, but it’s “facts” when you post them?? =D
By my numbers above, Roli is… yeah, about average. The Rick is a bit better sometimes, and scarily below-average others.
Now we know why Garth drafted eighteen goalies the past two seasons.
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Back to figuring out why the difference
Seriously, I’ll bet it is when the other team scores first or has a lead that DP overplays and compromises chances for crawling back into games/
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
Not facts
I apologize for that. I only meant that, in my OPINION, The Isles should find out what they have.
by upstateislesfan on Oct 27, 2010 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we are on the same page, just some stats mixing up that seems like we are against each other.
I used shots/gm because if a goalie gets blown out, he had an easy game. That’s why I don’t like shots/60min because it’s miscontruing, and that’s why I used shots/gm. Example: Say a goalie plays 20gms and is blown out in 6 of them and pulled in the 1st period. He played 20gms, but he really only faced the equivalency of 16 full gms. That’s why I don’t use shots/60min, it makes rollie looked like he faced more shots throughout the season then a lot of goalies, when in fact he did not. Not taking anything away from roloson though. He had a good season and played solid. I just don’t see Rollie this year as a savior and head and shoulders better then DP given all the circumstances and evidence on the table.
Go isles or Go home.
i understand that
I do see that you’re measuring something different than I am, and I respect that. I’m trying to measure something a little different.
If you get shelled for 15 or 16 shots in a single period, give up four, and get yanked… well, on the one hand you’re not working the rest of the night (which is how I’m reading what you said). On the other hand, you worked your tail off for that period.
What I see you saying is that you’re measuring how much work a goalie sees on a typical night… I’m trying to see how much work a goalie sees while he’s actually working. Facing 16 shots in one period is a lot different than facing 16 in a full game. If you face 16 and get pulled after 15 minutes, and I come in and see 16 shots the rest of the way, the shots/game for both of us are the same, but it doesn’t reflect how much harder you had to work while you were in. In general, Rollie got worked hard last year… sometimes it meant an early exit, but on other nights, it resulted in 40+ shots for the full game. I mean, to be pulled from games and STILL average over 30 shots per game, that’s a serious workload.
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
by mikb on Oct 27, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I see,
Rollie didn’t have a relaxing/easy workload by any means, but I just wanted to point out compared to other starters in the league, Rollies faced less shots that season then 15+ other nhl goalies. That’s all. I understand you and you understand me now.
Go isles or Go home.
mostly agree
But what if we get much better results with Rollie, and playing him keeps us in the play- off hunt, fills the NVMC, and lets face it winning games or keeping it close helps develop the young players and the team in general for next season. The way I see itis that Snow is pushing DP now to find out by Xmas whether Ricky can be #1. If he is only going to be a competant back-up I think we see a Bridge guy get at least 10 games this season. Then Snow sees this season whether he needs to trade for a big time goalie next year and decide who will be #2 on a play-off bound team next season.
Nice poll, quin
And I pre-approve public shaming of those who don’t follow your thread rules.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and Bailey and MacDonald were important.
Public shame
IS the best kind of shame!
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 26, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
DP data I would like to see but can't find
I want to see how he does when playing with a lead and playing from behind. I tried various places to see if this was a category for “splits stats”, alas to no avail. My thought was that I’ll bet that when we are down (doesn’t matter how much) DP tends to overplay the puck MORE than usual. (Anecdotal observation on my part). I would be almost willing to bet his GAA and Sv% are far different in games we score first vs games opponents score first.
That may be true for a lot of goaltenders, but my guess is that he leaves the net far more often in these situations.
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
not sure if the reference was intentional but...
# Because I’m his mother and I say so. (Ricky)
a profound return... i still love sammy octoberfest :-)
his name was Ricky in the movie!!
He’s always trying to put his testicles all over me
testicles?
yes, how you say…octopus?
you mean tenticles?…that’s a big difference
ricky is rusty (with an asterix)
i voted that way, but note that his all-star appearances, were they earned or was he simply there because an islander had to be there ? i dont remember… also, is it fair to say his level while an allstar would not measure up to the current all star level? just wondering… i root for him bad, but i’m a believer that for the present, roli is the better goalie, hopefully in 3-5 weeks, dp is the better
a profound return... i still love sammy octoberfest :-)
Ditto Ozzy's comment
But generally, I think his numbers were lie compared to other all-star keepers. Wasn’t he an injury replacement at least one year?
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 26, 2010 1:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Low
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 26, 2010 1:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Contract
Like it or not, Ricky is signed for the next 10 years, Rollie is not signed beyond this year. Don’t you think it behooves the Islanders to find out if their “franchise” goalie can get his game back?? And I too do not understand the nonsense of blaming Ricky for causing us to miss the playoffs. After 8 games?? Playoffs?? Are you kidding me??
by upstateislesfan on Oct 26, 2010 1:52 PM EDT reply actions
nobody's blaming RDP for that
Unless he gets the bulk of the starts and plays poorly. But I agree that we should figure out sooner rather than later what he’s got left. Sooner we see, the sooner we know whether the Isles are going to make a move. (What move that is, exactly, is more problematic.)
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
somebody is!!
Please check out noomz post above. He is the one who brought up the playoffs.
by upstateislesfan on Oct 26, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, points in October count just as much as points in April…
But besides that obvious point is one more obvious: I’m not noomz. I think it’s nice to get off to a good start so we can worry about the playoffs, rather than a terrible start so that we never enter the discussion. Beyond that – it’s a really small sample size so far. Rick had a couple of rough games to start out. Every goalie in the league is going to have a rough stretch of five games, somewhere. He got it done right off, great, now let’s see what he’s got.
I take noomz as saying that if RDP plays over forty more games the way he’s played his first five, that he will help kill whatever chance we have of getting into the postseason. Of course, we could play Rollie and he could go 0-10 in November and that would do it, too. It’s hard to tell the future.
I think Rick should get his starts, but his primary rehab should be practice work, especially drills to test and improve his lateral mobility. He should also practice clearing pucks off the glass and past forecheckers, until he can do it automatically in a game under pressure. I don’t know how else you could work on his decision-making ability unless you fit him with a collar that shocks him if he goes further than 20 feet from the crease.
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
+1 on the points!
A lot of our division is struggling right now (Devils with roster, Pitt with goaltending, Philly with overall craptacularity, and the Rangers are down Gaborik and Drury while Lundquist is not sharp). If we can continue this pace for a while, we could build up some future slump cred!
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
But Rollie isn't miles ahead of DP.
The strides DP has made the last 3 games, sans a couple moments in florida, has showed that DP still could be the great starting goalie we all hoped of. DP has it in him, but whether he can put it all together is another story. DP has the potential and play to be a great starter still in him. Last year rollie played like an average-good starting goalie, and we shouldn’t expect more from him at his age. DP has played like a great starter at times, and given his age/contract/nhl-experience/scouting reports(yeah, I’ll go there)/Draft spot/heart and recent play, RDP deserves the starts now until he falls off the wagon and declines in play in a couple consecutive starts.
Go isles or Go home.
The numbers above
indicate DP is an average-bad goaltender. The great thing about bad is there is only room for improvement. But this is why I included spaces above for game observations. I think from here on in, these debates will be easier to quantify.
Also, how do you know whats “in him”? We know what were told which is that “Rick is a competitor”, “Rick is working hard” etc. Bottom line is, nobody knows for sure what’s in a man’s character and it’s tough to measure “potential” and that is why we resort to data on performance. I’ve very rarely heard a coach say “this guy’s compete level is terrible” or “he dogs it in practice so I’m not surprised he plays like shit”.
Also just know that if his play falls off, he will be at a 4.00 GAA and .800 Sv %.
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
I know what your saying,
but in DP’s lasy 3 starts he has showed solid progress with the exception of a couple moments in the florida game. He has the potential, but we have to play the wait and see game as you said.
Go isles or Go home.
Practice isn't close to the same thing as real nhl starts,
DP has been going through rehab and simulation stuff for 3yrs and as you see, still a good bit rusty. Practice won’t do him much good. The ahl is full of our young goalies right now, and the nhl reps is what he needs and what we need to see from him to decide the future. THIS YEAR we need to make a decision on DP for better or worse. We really can’t keep playing the we’ll play it by ear scenario and going in with hopes and prayers. If we go in next season with DP the same way we went in this season with DP because we gave Rollie the starting job and 50-60+ starts, you all would be complaining about this same exact thing next year. The RDP situation needs to be solved this year and not put off.
Go isles or Go home.
good points
Nothing is like a game, except the game. However, there are things that he can and should continue to improve in practice. A guy can work on lateral mobility and stickhandling in drills. He shouldn’t be recovering or improving those skills in a game – he should do that in practice so that, in a game, he can execute automatically, without thought and without hesitation.
Still – we do need to know what we’ve got with the guy, so 100% agreement there. Sooner or later the team will need him to play regularly, so they can figure out if he’s still a legit starter, or just a very long-term, well-paid backkup.
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Yeah, some little things he could definitely hown(sp?) in practice.
We are on the same page.
Go isles or Go home.
How am I gonna make my team better by going to practice?
Wait, we talking about practice? Or the game? We talking ’bout practice?
heheheheheh
If the Rick were one of the five best players in the league the way Iverson was in his prime, I’d let him practice with Sam Adams in his water bottle and an Ice Girl skirt around his waist – whatever he wants. But the truth is, he isn’t. He never has been. He needs to refine his skills more – until they are automatic and reliable, and not a super funtime adventure every period.
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
I wonder if coaches yell at or demand him to stay in his net more when opposing forwards are in his zone.
That’s really his only playing the puck mistake, other then that his puckmoving skills are a nice luxury to have. If he only could control himself then, I think a lot of people would be happy with his overall play.
Go isles or Go home.
But this is a slow process. We can't just say after 10-15gms that he's done. He needs a solid sample size and back to back games for it to be done.
I honestly don’t see how we will know if DP can take the durability of being an nhl starting goalie without playing him 40gms+ this season and giving him a good number of back to back games. It’s for the best of the FRANCHISE that we find out what DP’s got and if he should choose to retire or we should leave his 4.5mil/yr in bridgeport or if we need to look for a new starting goalie next year or if everything is going as hoped. We can’t prolong this situation. Prior to the start of this season, DP has had only 18 starts in the last 3 seasons. HE NEEDS the game time or he may never get close to his true form again.
Go isles or Go home.
I think the key to the discussion is this
Like it or not, Ricky is signed for the next 10 years, Rollie is not signed beyond this year. Don’t you think it behooves the Islanders to find out if their "franchise" goalie can get his game back?? And I too do not understand the nonsense of blaming Ricky for causing us to miss the playoffs. After 8 games?? Playoffs?? Are you kidding me??
My opinion, and it has been consistent throughout, is that this is NOT the season we worry too much about the Playoffs. If it happens, wonderful. If it doesn’t, meh.
NEXT season is where we start moving to the top of the Conference and the window for real success begins the year after that. Much as I like Roloson, he won’t be part of that. We need to know where DP is now, the next year, and the next. We need to know whether or not we need to push Koskinen, Lawson and Poulin. We need to KNOW and we won’t unless DP is pushed. It may well seem to suck on the short term (keeping in mind the debate above), but that is where we are.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 26, 2010 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Exactly, very well put.
All of a sudden we are off to a hot start and some people want to forget about the future and win now. It’s rediculous. Next people will be calling for blockbuster trades to bring in another top 6 forward or top 2 d-man at the cost of some prospects and role players. Let’s be real. We are not close to being favorites to win the division or even make the playoffs. If it happens great, but this year we must have questions answered and look towards the future. Rollie isn’t part of the future. DP has a lot of money locked up in him from the islanders, more then most people here will make in 2 or 3 lifetimes.
Go isles or Go home.
So Ozzy
Why should Garth have gone out and tried to sign a top 6 forward top 4 D man then? If we had a more clear cut shot at winning this year (some playoff success..not the whole shebang), would this platoon ratio work for you or is it just that given the current makeup of the team it should be acceptable to start the lesser of the players to the detriment of the record? Isn’t that the very definition of tanking. Again, what kind of example is that for the younger guys?
Bottom line, in my eyes, the team is factoring in the money/contract as the primary concern. Did they draft all of these other goaltenders thinking “well, this will be Ricky’s back-up till 2022” Maybe they’re not ready, but again, you can have a stopgap anytime. I honestly don’t think they need him to pan out because they have goaltending all over the place…They need to either be able to get him to retire, trade him, or send him down to the AHL.
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
They need to either be able to get him to retire, trade him, or send him down to the AHL.
Just a quick note though, his contract doesn’t become a problem until the Islanders get close to the cap. Building up through the draft waivers and cheap quality FAs will keep expenses down. It was the FA pickups of Hossa, Huet and Campbell that really killed the Hawks.
Even Thomas Pock can't believe someone thinks he's an NHL talent.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I hear you
I didn’t so much mean as a cap issue as much as a where can you send him (because I doubt he would be someone’s backup and really, do we want a 4.5 mil backup with a possible sour puss) issue. Also, nobody is going to take that contract unless he is an all-star. If he doesn’t retire, and is just mediocre, we are screwed b/c he’s untradeable…we will have to Redden him stat.
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
Agreed.
Reddening him is the worst case scenario. Hopefully he’d retire at that point, but who knows how much pride he has(possible renegotiation at that point?).
Go isles or Go home.
There is no such thing as renegotiation in the NHL
Its not allowed.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 26, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
ah... but there's a possible loophole
The current CBA will expire in a year or two. Remember that the league is frowning on these sorts of long-term deals; remember that after the lockout and the advent of the cap, every contract in the league was renegotiated downward. I can see Bettman pushing for a window where certain contracts may be renegotiated, at pain of having cap penalties imposed. He may even push for long-term contracts ruled out of compliance with the CBA, and therefore MANDATORY renegotiation. (FWIW, I don’t think he’ll be able to pull that off.)
Either way, the Isles (and the Hawks with Hossa and Canucks with Luongo) may luck into a “get out of bad contract free” card courtesy of the league, once the current CBA expires.
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
The “"get out of bad contract free" card” is a myth that cap ceiling teams make up and say to one another. I do not see it happening.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 27, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, i agree
However – if enough of those teams make that up, and the have-nots notice that hey, this could help us someday, too – well, then, the owners may just go ahead and vote themselves a “get out cap hell free” card. That’s the big temptation. It would be a hugely bad precedent to set, but this is a league that gave us the Wheel of Justice, the pity point, and the Columbus Blue Jackets.
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
I don't know
of too many Hawks fans that have the Hockey intelligence that god gave a dead broken rock that would want to re-neg on Hossas contract.
Second City Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay up late for the Nerdfest!
Lighthouse Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay for the the injury report!
The avatar is a Schipperke, it's a dog. Yes, it's a real dog.
by burpchelischili on Oct 27, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Um,
It was the FA pickups of Hossa, Huet and Campbell that really killed the Hawks.
By killed, you mean This? lol
Fan of the Blackhawks!
Fan of the Isles!
TMFF is a Genius. 'Nuff said.
by burpchelischili on Oct 26, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think everyone knows I mean the immediate breakup of the team, and realizes it did give them the Cup for at least one year.
And they probably could have won the Cup without Campbell or Huet.
Even Thomas Pock can't believe someone thinks he's an NHL talent.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Not in my opinion.
The Campbell signing was good for a few different reasons, for 1 it seved notice to the rest of the league that the Hawks were under new managment. It also made it easier fo rthe Hawks to sign a higher level of free agent. If you watched the Nashville series in last years first round, the Hawks were headed for the ropes, and when Campbell returned, the Defense was vastly improved. Huet was not a bad goalie last year, he did seem to have a fragile mentality. I think it takes a different type of goalie to play when he might only see 20 or so shots per game. Ya know?
Second City Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay up late for the Nerdfest!
Lighthouse Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay for the the injury report!
The avatar is a Schipperke, it's a dog. Yes, it's a real dog.
by burpchelischili on Oct 27, 2010 5:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm....
it seved notice to the rest of the league that the Hawks were under new managment
Yeah, we did that. We’re still paying for him, I mean it. I agreed with the siging of Yashin then and I still think it was the right move (setting aside the bad trade, of course), but long term big money deals deals to 30 year old stars are not the way to build a winner.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 27, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I admit I was worried
about the Hawks being “Yashined” when they signed Campbell, but he really does help the team when he is on the ice. You know, when he isn’t doing the standard shuffle between the doctors office and physical therapy. Where have I seen that before?…
Second City Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay up late for the Nerdfest!
Lighthouse Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay for the the injury report!
The avatar is a Schipperke, it's a dog. Yes, it's a real dog.
by burpchelischili on Oct 27, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
It was the FA pickups of Hossa, Huet and Campbell that really killed the Hawks.
I think it was the ridiculous fumbling of their RFAs that really killed the Hawks.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 27, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I always forget about that little episode.
Even Thomas Pock can't believe someone thinks he's an NHL talent.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Yeah,
that and having Toews get all greedy and decide he just had to have more metal in his house. A Gold Medal, The Stanley Cup, and then he has to win the Conn Smythe and destroy the cap with his bonus… Overachiever.
/notice the sarcasm button being firmly held down…
Second City Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay up late for the Nerdfest!
Lighthouse Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay for the the injury report!
The avatar is a Schipperke, it's a dog. Yes, it's a real dog.
by burpchelischili on Oct 27, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Not tanking, just the whole fact that if people project you finishing at the bottom of the division/conference, it isn't in the best interests of the team to trade away prospects and up your cap hit just so you have a shot at barely making a 4-8 seed.
That’s what I’m saying. There is no need to move mountains and force trades to happen at the cost of less salary cap in the future, some main prospects being sent away, and some younger guys given less time to mature at the nhl level. Sure I hope we make the playoffs, but right now mortgaging the future/cap room for a single playoff run shouldn’t be anywhere in garth’s mind right now. ESPECIALLY 8gms in(streit out the whole season/KO out 1/3rd-1/2 the season is even more reason), and arguably at any point this season. This isn’t close to the year we make a cup run yet, so there shouldn’t even be a question about this stuff. Expectations are low, but tanking and trading away the farm for expensive game changers are 2 completely different things. IN NO WAY DO I WANT US TO TANK. I WANT DP to get his starts and his situation answered this year, NOT next year which will happen if we declare Rollie the starter and never push DP to see what he’s got.
That said, in free agency/offseason time this past summer, I would have loved garth attempting to land another top 6 forward or top 2 d-man(not with a forced or bad trade though), but it didn’t happen. No harm no foul. Garth does his thing and I leave it at that.
Go isles or Go home.
Okay, got ya!
Incidentally, I’m wasn’t talking about (bad) trades or Kovy either…just the previous FA signing period where so many were disappointed about not getting anybody and then were upset that we were gonna stink….yada yada yada DP vs Rollie thread!
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 26, 2010 10:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
1 reason
to go out and get those top 6/4 guys is so that the younger guys have the leadership and skill around to help bring them along. I’m sure Snow/Gordon would only bring in guys that they think will fit their model and be a benefit to the young guys. Oh, and winning more games, that too. :)
Ricky's Knee swelled last year...
During the Olympic break. The players had a week off and when they returned for the 2nd week of practice it swelled on the 2nd or 3rd day back.
I think Rollie gives us a better chance to win now. Saying that, what does a better chance at winning now get us? We aren’t an elite team, if we get into the playoffs it’ll probably be by a squeaker and we probably won’t be able to match up against any of the top teams unless it’s the Caps.
In the long run the Islanders need to know what DP can and can’t do. They need to know if he is going to be the franchise. They need to know if next season is going to involve bringing in a new starter for a season or two as Mikko gets used to NHL play.
We’ve always talked about the long term of the team, and the best thing for the long term is to find out where they stand on DP. If he survives the season but only plays 20-25 games behind Rollie, there’s still a question mark.
Even Thomas Pock can't believe someone thinks he's an NHL talent.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Oct 26, 2010 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Some of each
Because I think that DP still has a lot of rust that he needs to shake off, I think Rollie presents the best chance for the Islanders to win now. I’ll stand with what I’ve said in the beginning of the season, that ultimately, the hotter goalie will be playing, and that the Islanders goaltending situation throughout the season is a platoon in nature.
However, because DP will be here for the long haul, and Roloson doesn’t figure to be in the Islanders’ plans after this season, the lingering questions about DP’s health and if he can continue to play at the highest level need to be answered.
Just re-scanning the comments here and in the other threads
It sure sounds like most people think the Isles need to evaluate what they have in this asset at some point, they just disagree on when and how to do it.
Personally, I think as with 8 men on D, these things have a way of working themselves out during an 82-game season. That’s why I’m in no rush to give him the majority of starts now, when (IMO) he has not been the better goalie by any means. To me, long-term thinking like this kicks in later, when you are no longer in the playoff race, like the full-time shift to the kids in December ‘08 when the vets complained because they couldn’t read the writing on the wall. In the meantime, in the early going, you do what you can to win until the standings tell you to think about other things.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and Bailey and MacDonald were important.
by Dominik on Oct 26, 2010 10:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Can I get a witness
Ahmen!
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 26, 2010 10:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
As long as DP gets his 40starts+ this season and is properly evaluated I'm happy.
This path you stated is a fine choice too as long as DP gets the starts. Ending the year with DP only having 20-30starts under his belt and still having durability and quality of play question marks would be the worst case scenario for me. For better or worse, DP needs 40starts+ for evaluation and testing.
Go isles or Go home.
I forget where,
but I know I saw a stat post on SBNation that showed that very few if any goalies could play 60 to 70 games of a season and go anywhere in the playoffs. I seem to think I saw it on the avalanche site, but I’m not sure what in the world I would be doing there…
Fan of the Blackhawks!
Fan of the Isles!
TMFF is a Genius. 'Nuff said.
by burpchelischili on Oct 26, 2010 10:40 PM EDT reply actions
I saw that
I don’t think it was “could” go but “have recently” gone, but that’s more an argument against the need for a dominant guy making Luongo bucks rather than an argument against the possibility.
So few teams make it past the second round that it makes for a small sample, and meanwhile teams that are so dependent on their star goalie for success (::cough:: Rangers, Avs) usually are covering up other flaws that best-of-seven series happily expose.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and Bailey and MacDonald were important.
yup,
it also lets a team focus on a Star goalies tendencies rather than teaching two goalies trends at once. (At least that’s how it was for me in soccer.)
Fan of the Blackhawks!
Fan of the Isles!
TMFF is a Genius. 'Nuff said.
by burpchelischili on Oct 26, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Also,
I had to vote Because I said so Ricky, because I think whichever one is in goal is who I’m rooting for… I’m a whishy-washy sort of person… sometimes
Fan of the Blackhawks!
Fan of the Isles!
TMFF is a Genius. 'Nuff said.
by burpchelischili on Oct 26, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, 70gms is bit much.
But I don’t think any goalies should have wear problems with 50 to ~60 starts per year.
Go isles or Go home.
one word - Yashin
that’s my response to those saying we need to play DP because he has a long term contract
under that assumption, Alexei should still be wearing the Orange & Blue, which is patently ridiculous
if time has passed Ricky by, and we have a much better goalie (Rollie) now, and great kids in the system (we do) – he should get the Yashin treatment – period
am not a Yankee fan, but we should learn from their insistance on winning and performance
this team could have been 5-1-2 and could have been if Rollie started the last game
demand a winning environment and you have a much better chance of getting one
tolerate incompetence and that’s what you get
I really think he should be given a chance to prove himself before being yashined.
It’s not like he’s completely dreadful. He’s shown light, and his buyout would be insane. That’s really a last resort for the isles. I don’t see the isles buying out DP without good reasoning and cause. DP plays with a lot more heart then yashin ever did and wants the isles to win. Yashin was, well you know.
Go isles or Go home.
And I think that is the difference
With the Islanders and fans in general. An analogy, what if we were talking about this situation with a Giants quarterback or a Yankee starting pitcher? Javy vazquez had to earn his way back to starting. Eli was only given the reigns after the giants stunk and the playoffs weren’t a possibility (then they stunk worse). I think the difference is that those teams are expected to win and have little margin or tolerance from fans to win immediately…we don’t. But I’ll bet if we were talking about another team/sport, people would be calling for the best player right now as opposed to who could be the best player at some point. The Yankees could also afford to have a Javy Vazquez pitch every 5 days because their other 4 starters were pitching really well. That’s why I would at least like to see the starts go 50-50, but also hockey is a different sport where guys get locked in the more they play consecutively…
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 27, 2010 7:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Personal opinion only,
but I see a great load of difference between “demanding” and “facilitating”. The way I see it, if you are only getting the proverbial horse to take a drink by holding his head under water… Well, then you’re walking home.
To break the above drivel into words that make sense, “Win or Die” is a bit harsh for a game of Hockey. People are people, and I guess I’ll include goalies as people, and people make mistakes.
What happens if all four of your goalies have “failed”? I would be all for signing Pang as a goalie, as long as he was not allowed pads…
Second City Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay up late for the Nerdfest!
Light House Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay for the the injury report!
The avatar is a Schipperke, it's a dog. Yes, it's a real dog.
by burpchelischili on Oct 27, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Different case than Yashin
that’s my response to those saying we need to play DP because he has a long term contract
That’s not really their argument though.
The argument is to play/evaluate him (at some point) because you have to find out whether you have a capable starting goaltender at $4.5M per in the forseeable future, or whether you have a buyout that costs you $1.5M cap for every season through 2030-2031. (20031! Blogs probably won’t even exist then! John Tavares may be retired then!)
It’s a question of figuring out what your sunk cost is, not “oh we owe him because of the contract.” In that context, you can’t make a decision that big without actually playing him — and probably (attempting to) play him somewhat back into form — at some point. So the question is how,, and then if it falters when is enough enough. None of that contradicts “demanding a winning environment,” etc.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and Bailey and MacDonald were important.
Holy crap!
That is a long time! They better never make that 15 yr mistake again with anybody! ANYBODY! Not even JT!
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 27, 2010 7:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
2031
I just threw up a little in my mouth.
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
I hear you
It gave me IBS…I’ll be close to freaking 60! We drafted him when I was in my early 30’s!
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 27, 2010 2:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That was a taste of Bobby Bonilla
Even Thomas Pock can't believe someone thinks he's an NHL talent.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
NO
You have absolutely no way of knowing if Roloson would have won the game against Florida. Playing DP is NOT tolerating incompetence, except in your OPINION!! If DP wins his next 5 games you have a winning environment. And there is a HUGE difference between Yashin and DP. DP may be signed long term but he is not disgruntled and a poor locker room presence. You really cannot compare the two IMO. And I still disagree with your contention the Roloson is a MUCH better goalie. I belive the numbers quoted in this thread prove you wrong.
by upstateislesfan on Oct 27, 2010 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what bothers me is gordon tipped his hand stating both goalies would get work in florida, rick had tb, than because it was his best game, roli got snubbed, and rick didnt reward the coach…
this team has generally playing D like a playoff team, clogging passing and shooting lanes and blocking tons of shots, all you have to do is play sound fundamentally and you will be rewarded
a profound return... i still love sammy octoberfest :-)
Yeah, but...
They did not play that way in front of Ricky in Florida at all. There were Panthers in front of the net all night long. And since when do you blame Ricky for a coaches decision?? Rolie got snubbed?? This is supposed to be a TEAM sport, but somehow Ricky didn’t reward his coach?? Please…
by upstateislesfan on Oct 27, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Look at rollie's game tonight against montreal.
You going to blame rollie for the D’s mistakes tonight? Same style outcome and similar goalie play. Team/D mistakes cost the isles the game tonight vs the habs, not poor goaltending as stats would beg to differ.
Go isles or Go home.
by OzzyFan on Oct 27, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Free Agent Goaltending
Another reason to see everything Ricky has this season, and to see it early, is this free agent market. I recall reading somewhere (and I feel shame for not remembering where) that this offseason is the year of the goaltender. Maybe they push Ricky early, because they want to see what they have. If he does well, great, he’s back and maybe we make a nice run for the playoffs. If he does poorly, poop, but at least we know he’s not the same, and we can sign a free agent goalie and work Mikko and Poulin in slowly, while we ride Rollie for the rest of the year. If he gets hurt, the situation kind of solves itself. No one wants to see the kid hurt again, but it may just happen that his body can’t handle the strain of professional sports. If so, he retires, they sign someone, and work in Mikko and Poulin slowly again.
The bottom line: they need to know what they have. I think that the way to find that out is to play him, more than necessary. Let him play 50 games, and see how he does. See how it all plays out. Then make an informed decision based on actual play.
Head, shoulders, knees, and toes...Not a children's song, but the Isles injusry report.
We are close to concensus on the goalie situation
1) we want Ricky to do well, for himself and the team, 2) It may take time to find out – we have an arguement of how many games we can give him before we decide his status for the rest of the season and next. How well he does and how well the team does when Rollie as playing has to be a factor even though Rollie will be gone next season or at best a back-up to DP or to a Bridge guy or someone else in a trade for next season.. If the team plays poorly on D and or does not do well on offense this season we should keep pushing DP in net with the idea that he will improve. However if the D and offense play very well and we lose games well into the season with DP in net. , then its time to bring up this season one of the Bridge Gs to salvage the season and have had seasoning for next year. Probably a repeat of billymac, but I felt like BSing.
My answer to this is that: I think it's irrelevant.
From the frequent statistical explorations of goalie true talent, I’ve come to the opinion that we have 5% of NHL Goalies being absolute abysmal (last year, Vesa Toskala), 10% being truly good goalies, and then 85% in between who are all decent but interchangable.
I put Roli and DP both in that category. Thus, I don’t really care. It really won’t have an effect on this team; other things will.
by garik16 on Oct 27, 2010 7:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That's not a bad theory,
and right now based on Rollie’s play for the isles last year and now + DP’s recent play would make me agree with this.
Go isles or Go home.
But the statistical explorations of "true goalie talent" are far from settled
…And usually dependent on sample sizes of years, over which time their teams and coaches and health change.
Thus we are left to the old-fashioned model of trying to figure out — with some urgency, given that seasons last only six months — who gives a team the better chance to win today. That matters, and affects team results today, even if we cannot predict the degree or put a number on it.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and MacDonald were important.
Yea true but
If we break the 85% down, where do we put DP, so far this season. I give him an A for effort , but a C for results. The question again is not will he continue to improve and shed “rust”, but where will he end up in the 85% pack? The paradox is the better the team plays infront of him the better a goalie will perform. On the other hand, a less than adequate goalie [below average] can lose winnable games especially in the Isles present developmental stage – where we need to steal games not only on the road but at home. The goal tending statistics in the end don’t lie on average, and may tell us how much and how fast DP’s comeback is proceeding. Rollie’s performance statistically playing in front of the same team is also a valid comparison of DP’s progress. The fact that Rollie won’t be here next year does not matter in this projection.
Please try to remember the reply [^^here^^] button
Not busting your nads, it just really really helps make threads easier to follow.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and MacDonald were important.
"The play's the thing"
A very old expression. Some say we should keep playing DP, because: he has a long expensive contract, he is getting over bad injuries and improving, Rollie is old and will be gone or #2 next season, and I say they are right, but there has to be a timetable or a reasonable improvement curve that allows for some poor games. MY analogy with the theatre [Broadway] is that if you pay a lot of money to see a three act play and you are dissapointed after the first act most of us return from the first intermission and hope for improvement.in the second act. If that act is no better or worse a lot of people walk away and miss the 3rd act and realize they wasted a lot of money on a loser. but decide to do something with the rest of the evening. The point is – that the rest of the evening is like the rest of the season. Maybe we should go out for drinks and in this analogy, maybe we should bring in someone from the bullpen who might be a starting pitcher next year. If anyone is still reading at this point, what I mean is maybe we might have to call up Kosy or someone else from the Bridge to see what they can do in preparation for next season. I hope DP pitches a complete game and the expensive play is great in the third act and DP becomes a long running hit.
Some stats through 10gms for both:
Fast forward to this year: DP has had GREAT goal support and arguably the team has been playing better with him in net then Rollie. Evidence: Goal support-DP-3.6goals/gm vs Rollie-2.4goals/gm, Shots against per 60min- DP-27.96/Sixtymin vs Rollie-29.2/sixtymin, Shots for per game-DP-32/gm vs Rollie vs 24/gm. Numbers speak loudly here and shouldn’t go unrecognized.
Go isles or Go home.
Philly game
The Flyer goalie was great. The Isles didn’t show up and let’s face it . Ricky could have been better earlier. I hope if the same scene plays out often in the goal this season, we do what Philly did tonight and give either Kosy or Pouly a shot.
DP's main problem is his wanting to play the puck all the time.
1 to 2 of those goals DP should have stopped against philly, but his main problem is him leaving the crease to play the puck too much. If he was given rules on playing the puck, picked his spots, and was much more smart about it then it would be a gift instead of a burden. DP still should have saved that 1 carter quick shot from far out, but I honestly can’t legitly blame him for the other goals. He’s not solid, but he’s not bad. To review HIS play tonight other then his bad playing the puck choices: slightly below average starting goalie. Salvagable and even usable, but not close to what he should be: and slightly furthering the bar between his below-average play and how much better Rollie was with his play this game. Step back for DP in development/rust-shaking, but nothing to go into panic mode about.
Go isles or Go home.
DP
I have to believe that Snow/Gordon ex goalies have spoken many times to Rick about his play away from the crease and he still persists. I think in many ways DP is a portrait in courage. However the team cannot afford to allot a full season to his recovery, and not have some NHL ready and experienced replacements ready in case he cannot be a high percentage of his former self. Snow spent capital and piks last season with a lot of Goalie picks. The bull pen is in Bridgeport but Kosy/Poulie need some relief appearences and starts to see what we have for next season. No matter how you judge the rebuild a very important part is in goal. So far the whole team has been sub par but really with no replacements at Forward at Bridge. But we do have possibilities at Goal. We must be patient with Rick, but not at the expense of our future at that position. The worst reason for sticking with him is the length and cost of his contract. The bottom line in any pro sport is a path to winning, so far we are lost.
I believe there is a high probability this season will be a wash of sorts.
The playoffs are realistically a miracle year for 2 or more of our forwards away for us. DP needs to be given at least half a season of nhl work to see what he’s got for better or worse. A few nhl games for our young goalies that have very little ahl experience won’t be the best thing for the team or their development. And if we really want to be better for the future, it will involve Garth making the right moves of who to resign, who to let go, and who to go after during free agency: not really by what ricky shows this year or what the team does as a whole.
Go isles or Go home.
off the subject, but not really....................
Watched the Rags beat Chi last night. The NYR without Gaby, have less talent than the Isles up front especially when we get KO back. [IMO our most important forward ] Their D is bigger and without Steit I think they are better than us. The biggest difference is in Goal where Lunquist is first rate and gives them a chance to win everynight – you could say almost a shut down kind of guy. Another point is they are much bigger. My point is will DP improve enough to even be average in this league? We have already argued over a time table, let’s at least agree that there needs to be a time table. Even if our guys mature next year they will need a guy in net like a Lunquist if they will have any shot at the playoffs.
I wouldn't go that far.
I know it’s not a fair comparison yet/now, but Chicago won the stanley cup with niemi in net and I think he is going to pan out as average at best. And LOTS of teams have WON the stanley cup with average goalies or goalies on a hot streak. Philly last year got to the cup riding the hotter goalie of the boucher/leighton tandem and they are both backup goalies on most nhl teams.
But you are right, a good goalie is the basis to a good team. The most important player on the ice hands down. And Lundqvist is the reason the Rangers were a 9th place team in the east last year instead of a 12th-14th place team in the east last year. When you have an elite/Top-5 goalie in net, life is a lot easier for a hockey team. Lundqvist is just on another level.
Go isles or Go home.
The Rangers have gone on a tear
since Gaborik and Drury went down…Strange huh? coinciding with that though, Lunquist definitely wasn’t sharp in his first few games.
Sarcasm experience enhanced by Samsung (TM)
I agree
But Chicago upgraded to Turco, because in front of him they have a slightly less formidable team than last season, which is really my point with the Isles, except we are at a much earlier place in our development. In the final analysis how fast can we come back taking into account our low budget and the arena situation?
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lighthouse Hockey
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Islanders Schedule
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Watch John Tortorella’s Game 2 press conference, as he’ll ‘keep it in the room’ (VIDEO)
- Devils Coach Pete DeBoer’s adjustments make difference in Game 2 win vs. Rangers
- Marty Brodeur’s ‘own goal’ in Game 2 vs. Rangers (VIDEO)
- Coyotes’ Martin Hanzal suspended 1 game for boarding Dustin Brown
- Devils vs. Rangers in Game 2; top NHL free agents; top 10 playoff saves (Playoff Puck Previews)
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- Rangers coach John Tortorella benches Gaborik for much of third after blunder on tying goal
- Rangers coach John Tortorella benches Gaborik for much of third after blunder on tying goal
- Rangers lose, Gaborik in doghouse
- Devils-Rangers Sum
- Devils D Adam Larsson out of New Jersey lineup for Game 2, replaced by Peter Harrold
SBNation.com Recent Stories
1979-80
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
