Should Zenon Konopka stay out of the penalty box?
by Dominik on Oct 25, 2010 6:45 AM EDT
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PrintWhat an unusual and inspired journey to the NHL for Zenon Konopka: Undrafted, he didn't achieve "NHL regular" status until age 29 in 2009-10 -- his fifth NHL season, on his third NHL team (plus nine AHL/ECHL squads), still working less than 10 minutes a game. That year he made his name with the Lightning by leading the league in PIM (265) while skating just 8:08 per night.
But when Garth Snow signed him for the Islanders this summer, while many wondered, "Is Snow really replacing Richard Park with an enforcer?", there was that one other attribute that stuck out: Konopka's 62.3% faceoff success rate on 462 draws. (Despite such minimal ice time, that was fourth-most on the team, about half as many draws as Steven Stamkos took, and a third as many as Vincent Lecavalier.)
In eight games as an Islander -- getting a second-lowest-on-the-team 10:38 of TOI -- Konopka has already taken a team-high 141 draws, winning 61.7%.
| Faceoffs - 2010-11 | W | L | Win% | PKW | PKL | EVW | EVL | Tot |
| Konopka | 87 | 54 | 61.7 | 21 | 20 | 65 | 32 | 141 |
But Konopka is also leading his team (again) in another category: PIMs. So I ask: Should he be?
The Asset: A Unique Set of Skills
You already know this if you're watching the games, but what taking the most draws on the team while skating the fewest non-Trevor Gillies minutes tells you is Scott Gordon deploys Konopka very carefully and strategically: Lots of shorthanded faceoffs -- which, when won and cleared, can shave 10-15 seconds off the opponent's powerplay -- and lots of defensive zone draws for him to win, then sub off as the team rushes up ice. On the PK, he's already taken 25 more draws than Frans Nielsen (41 to Nielsen's 16).
If he is so clearly the team's first choice on important draws, then do the Islanders want him spending time in the box that he can avoid?
To be fair, despite a gaudy 21 PIMs in just eight games, Konopka has only taken three minor penalties -- at least two of which I can objectively tell you were absolute crap referee error. (The most recent one was Saturday night in Florida, when he drove the puck to the net -- literally hitting the side of the net -- and was unbelievably called for goalie interference, despite not actually making contact with the goalie, with 15 minutes left in a tied game.)
So at this early date, you can't call him a careless penalty taker: He's not both putting the Isles short and depriving them of their best PK faceoff guy.
Fighting: A Peculiar Institution
But Konopka is choosing to fight so far (three in eight games), whether to fire up the team, "switch the momentum" or even partially settle old scores. Since Trevor Gillies is playing and only getting a couple minutes of TOI per night, wouldn't we prefer Gillies take those fights?
The role of an enforcer in today's NHL is much debated -- I laid out my own theory about this cognitive pretzel last year -- but one trend is that, for the most part the "heavyweights" only fight each other. That means guys who skate ~5 minutes per night only "police" a fraction of the game and quickly cancel each other out, which is why the Rangers' giant contract to Derek Boogaard is so laughable, and their claims of making him more of a h-o-c-k-e-y player so downright entertaining.
Enforcer A: "Hey, don't hit our stars."
Enforcer B: "Oh yeah? I'll hit who I want!"
Enforcer A: "No you won't."
Enforcer B: "What are you going to do about it?"
Enforcer A: "Fight you."
Enforcer B: "Oh, okay." {they fight}
{both spend next five minutes in box, then rest of game on bench. All stars are now deemed safe via Ambiguous NHL Code Section IV(b).}
So these days, to the extent (if you believe it) that fighting still serves a role in today's game, you almost need a non-heavyweight available if a non-heavyweight on the other team is doing something that needs "policing."
Since Konopka isn't exactly a minutes-muncher, having him take on players who wouldn't dare take on Gillies seems appropriate. But since his unique skill at faceoffs is strategically important, you'd want him to either avoid fights altogether (note: That's not happening) or, at minimum, not get into them at critical "close-and-late" points of the game.
It's early, but so far Konopka's at least observed the latter concern. As the season goes on and Gillies likely makes way for other returning forwards in the lineup later, it will be something to watch how Konopka handles his availability to drop the gloves.
On the one hand, he performs an important skill at a level few other than Manny Malhotra can match. On the other hand...6 in 10 versus 5 in 10 -- in 1 60-minute game, shouldn't the other Islanders centers make do for the five when Zenon isn't available?
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There's no sex in his violence!
Just hit EVERYTHING, ZEN… That would be my take on it. Then real fights would come…. maybe…. maybe not.. I like Zeke, but I am not a big fan of the obligatory entertainment bouts. I’d rather see those in the octagon… I defintiely don’t mind a good hockey fight, but I think they should be from the passion of the moment… and that would leave about 20 fights a year throughout the whole league… and most of those would be between guys that are getting enough ice time to build a history between each other. Otherwise you have guys fighting because of unpaid golf bets… which should only happen in the clubhouse, after a lot of beer…
Iin Newsday I read, the islanders blew, and now I can't see for myself, cause they're on MSG+2... Thanks Dolan
Agreed!
Since it’s usually guys fighting guys who have agreed to fight, the message isn’t really sent anyway. What you need is a Steve Webb type who is indesscriminate about WHO he hits and has the speed to lay the limber in the elite players.
I was wondering if big Z can play wing and be the forecheck/hitting madman while taking the draws. That way, he’s on the ice more, can hit, can take draws if one of our guys gets thrown out of the circle or in big spots, provide a big body in front and protect the youths. On that BS call, he looked good getting to the net. Can he terrorize the opposing D regularly and center the 4th line when necessary?
Bottom line to me, when you’re hitting, your less likely to be hit. Our first couple of games we were doing that more, but the last few, nit so much. Seems to coincide with Hunter and Comeau being banged up.
Some suspensions are worth it!!!
by Keith Quinn on Oct 25, 2010 9:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What you need is a Steve Webb type who is indiscriminate about WHO he hits and has the speed to lay the limber in the elite players.
There aren’t many of those type of guys around any more outside of Cal Clutterbuck unfortunately.
A contributor to Lighthouse Hockey - Providing inappropriate pictures of Brüno since 2009.
by David Hanssen on Oct 25, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Better question: CAN Zenon stay out of the box?
We know his minor penalties are 2/3rds unlucky BS, but the fights-on-faceoffs thing is a bit more of a concern. We know that he was the fights leader last season with an astounding 33 tilts. That’s what, 40% of his games, he dropped the gloves? And he was the statistical leader in that category by a rather wide margin. So those goofy faceoff fights seem to be a part of his game.
Here are my questions:
-Can he control himself and not start those fights?
-Can he control himself and decline those fights when offered to him?
-Will it have an effect on his game overall?
-Will he be challenged strongly by people who want to knock off the previous season’s fight leader?
I’d like to see Zenon stop fighting. As much as we can say that his percentage difference works out to be only 1-in-10 better than our other centers, that can be a crucial and confidence evoking 10%. But that’s just my opinion…
Lighthouse Hockey: I go there for their taste in beer.
Interesting question
I would hope so — I figured his nonstop fighting last year was more a way to make a name and secure his own rep (and job). But yeah, he is one of those guys who’s in overdrive at game time, so maybe he (believes he) thrives off it and won’t be inclined to stop.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and Bailey and MacDonald were important.
Dom, check out his freaking Zone Start:
http://www.behindthenet.ca/2010/new_5_on_5.php?sort=60§ion=zonestart&mingp=5&mintoi=5&team=&pos=
10.6%. That makes Gordon’s crazy use of Nate Thompson look insane.
Anyhow, I’m gonna write a fanpost about this soon, but I’m beginning to think (from looking at the stats) that Zenon’s faceoff ability is really not worth carrying him on the roster.
Am I reading that correctly?
he basically starts in the Defensive zone upwards of ten times as often as he starts in the Offensive zone?
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 25, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd be curious to see that
Because if you have one of your best chances to win a draw available, is it really a problem to carry him as a 4th-liner and part-time enforcer?
…Or are you suggesting his play in the defensive zone isn’t worth the risk for the 40% of the time when he doesn’t win the draw?
This is one of those tough ones because faceoffs can be massively important, with some a helluva lot more important than others. Hard to not want to send a guy like that out there.
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and Bailey and MacDonald were important.
6+ center system
This is how I see it when Bailey and Schremp return…FO% in parens
Bailey(45)-Tavares(59)-Comeau(25)
Moulson(100)-Schremp(00)-Parenteau(67)
Grabner(00)-Nielsen(48)-Weight(54)
Sim(75)-Konopka(62)-Hunter(00)
FO stats from NHL.COM… Line combinations from JP.COM/HEAD/Sports/hockey/NYI/gibberish/linecombos
PS: Are there stats available for FO by location? You would think that a coach could really use those in a stat-based approach when he has the last change… who am I kidding… the way bodies flow in and out of the Isles lineup it’s hard to believe that the asst coaches can keep track of line combos and match up preferences.
Iin Newsday I read, the islanders blew, and now I can't see for myself, cause they're on MSG+2... Thanks Dolan
Yes there are.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/2010/new_5_on_5.php?sort=59§ion=zonestart
It only shows the faceoffs while a player is on the ice, not just the one’s in which that player was on the ice, but with Zenon they’re one and the same.
Zenon: 5-2 on offensive faceoffs, 39-20 on defensive faceoffs, 24-11 on neutral zone faceoffs.
Zenon on Penalty Kill, 17-20 on defensive zone faceoffs, 3-0 in neutral zone faceoffs.
Thanks...
What I meant was… stats at each dot. You can break it down to DL(Defensive Left), DR, NL, NR, OL, OR, C. I’m sure there are guys that are stronger on one side of the rink than the other.
Iin Newsday I read, the islanders blew, and now I can't see for myself, cause they're on MSG+2... Thanks Dolan
I don't think they have that
But it would be interesting. By some of these instances, I half expect Gordon to put Konopka out there for the faceoff when it’s at a dot nearest the bench!
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and Bailey and MacDonald were important.
I think it is important to have a tough guy that can also play
it is great to have that fighter than can also contribute in other areas, but it is important that he still acts as an enforcer too.
I have been impressed by his skills
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Oct 25, 2010 10:19 AM EDT reply actions
From a Meta game perspective....
is there a benefit to him having his fights early in the season and expecting the NEED for said fights to decline over the balance of the year? One hopes so, but the evidence would seem to suggest otherwise. The other factor is that the kids are now big enough, for the most part, to stand up for themselves and there is less need to “protect” them.
Anyone who is that important to the team defensively should not be taking himself out of the game for 5-7 minutes at a time, unless there is absolutely no other choice. I mean, let’s face it, if Obi-wan fights with Boo&^*&, and they both get 2 for roughing and five for fighting, who wins, regardless of how much fun it was to watch?
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 25, 2010 10:42 AM EDT reply actions
on fighting other enforcers
If the tough guys fight only each other, it means that the stars stay out of the box and unpunched, which is overall good for the team and the game. It’s like a heat sink – you don’t want your motherboard frying, so you pump all that heat into a hunk of metal that isn’t really skilled at doing anything else. It contributes nothing to the actual computing the machine does, but without it the machine would stop functioning.
The reason agitators are so agitating is that they DO rough up stars. If they do so legally they earn grudging respect (Kasparaitis, Pilon), if they’re jackholes they earn contempt from all (Cooke, Avery, Ruutu), and especially if they’re dirty and WON’T answer the bell when it comes to it. (Well, Cooke answered the bell against Evander Kane, and got it rung like Sunday morning.) The thing is, taking liberties with opponents (as contrasted with just playing them tough and clean) puts your own guys at risk – as any of us can readily understand after watching guys cheap-shot JT, Okposo, Neilsen, and etc.
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intimidator
i actually enjoy seeing the isles have an intimidating presence on the ice.something we have not had in ages.additionally,its not like fighting is the sole part of his physical game.kenopka almost never misses a chance to hit opposing players. itb might get old quickly for me especially when he is in the box that is when its most Crucial to have him out there for defensive zone faceoffs! last year the great dane started off great on faceoffs but faded as the season progressed.until franz or someone else can establish himself as a reliable quick draw artist i ’ll vote for zenon to be alittle more choosy when to risk a penalty. btw,his reputation for penalties does not give him benefit of the doubt with the refs
by Lakewood Islander on Oct 25, 2010 10:52 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
You guys are missing the point.
The point isn’t that Zenon shouldn’t be an agitator/fighter because those are bad, but because WE HAVE A DEDICATED FIGHTER ON THE FREAKING ROSTER.
If Zenon is going to be taking most fights, then you DON’T NEED GILLIES. It’s one or the other. You don’t need two enforcers.
YES!!
I agree whole-heartedly with this outlook. i find Gillies to be a waste of a roster spot. Why not have Martin in that spot on the 4th line getting NHL experience?? Surely we would benefit more from this??
by upstateislesfan on Oct 25, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Fighter and Enforcer are two different things.
Gillies is more of a heavy weight, Konopka a middle weight. Konopka is not going to fight Boogaard (well, he might, but it wouldn’t be good…) , Gillies would. Gillies is there to keep guys like Boogaard away from roughing up a Tavares type. Without Gillies, Boogaard has no one to answer to – Konopka is about half his size.
Konopka seems like a dude that fights anyone, anytime. But I don’t know that some heavyweight is going to change his game plan because Konopka might go after him.
.......One doesn't need both.
Fighting and Enforcing can be done by the same person. You don’t need two roster spots for that….at all.
I wouldn’t disagree, but I don’t think Konopka’s “role” is that of fighter, but to be honest, I don’t know for sure. I know he’s great at faceoffs. I don’t think he’s gotten a point yet. Not sure if he’s good on the PK aside from faceoffs either. He doesn’t seem to be a bad hockey player, but I really don’t have enough info to say definitively. But I don’t feel he’s quite an enforcer.
No.
This big division that people put up in recent years makes no sense to me.
The idea that you should have one and ONLY one “tough guy” seems so frickin pointless to me.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having more than one guy on your team who bangs and hits. Did the Isles waive Cairns or Webb back in 01 because they could ONLY keep one of them? Of course not, because they each brought a different facet of the game. Its the same kind of thing.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 25, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
P-Touch Technical Support
Labels are not good in the NEW NHL. “FIGHTERS” and “ENFORCERS” are going to go away. Players are going to have to bring more to the table. Zeke is fine for a fourth liner. I REFUSE TO SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE about Gillies… but if Scott wants to justify his place on the roster he needs to give him a semi-regular shift.
I’m sure most teams can operate rolling 3 lines and using the fourth as depth for PKing, plug in components and emergency “Tough Guy”…
these roles are going to have to be taken by players who can play 4-6mins of responsible hockey. they don’t have to score 20 goals, but they should be able to finish their checks with some affect. Matt Martin is going to be that guy for us. What is going to happen is:
1. The obligatory self justification fights go away.
2. If you don’t have a heavyweight you’re not going to fight the other teams heavy… thus taking him out of the game.
3. Justice needs to be swift (ala Bailey after the Comeau hit), or it needs the “take a number” dynamic. Having a guy on the bench to be an “ENFORCER” just doesn’t work. I don’t see what effect two heavies going at it has on a player getting blindside. So having a guy ON THE ICE who CAN POLICE (Think CLARK GILLIES, NOT TREVOR) the situation is so much more effective…. enter Matt Martin.
4. the instigator rule has pretty much done away with OUR TOUGH GUY WILL GET YOU rule of on ice justice. It’s funny how that rule is never enforrced correctly anyway. Last year Vinny attacked Jackman for running the goalie (accidental/incidental contact)… This is what I thought INSTIGATOR was written for… he got nothing extra… So the Instigator rule is basically a way to get goons off the roster.
With all that being said I can’t help but notice how the islanders started playing with more confidence since Trevor was part of the team. He single handedly turned around the Philly domination, and will be a part of this season because they play in a division, and conference that likes to feed the fans violence. I just wish he could, or at least Gordon would give him the chance to play 4-6 mins.
Iin Newsday I read, the islanders blew, and now I can't see for myself, cause they're on MSG+2... Thanks Dolan
one thing's for sure
The picture above was worth those five minutes. That looks like a comic-book cover or something. It needs some over-the-top Jack Kirby/Stan Lee narration.
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Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Also reminds me of the end of Rocky II (I think that's it)
Could use some speech bubbles about World Domination and “NOT ON MY WATCH, ZENON KONOPKA!” along with some BAAAAAMMMSSS and PPOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW. Maybe a SCRUNCCCCCCHHHHHHH for good measure.
Also: Some wonderfully exaggerated {PNCSHHH} punch sound effects
Lighthouse Hockey: You say that like Streit and Okposo and Schremp and Bailey and MacDonald were important.
are you prepared for
The League That’s Coming??!?!?
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You should have taken Bumblebee to college with you, you selfish little bastard!
That picture looks like Konopka is about to punch out Shia LeBouf.
one can only dream
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Katie Strang
Is reporting that she saw Grabner icing his left leg after the Florida game. No official announcement from the Isles. Botta reported that Grabner completed an off-ice workout today with Matt Martin skating. Trent Hunter was on the 4th line at practice with Sim and Konopka. I would imagine Gillies being scratched for Wednesday, as he skated as an ‘extra’ with JT, MM and Blake.
RxOSTER MD
Before the season I had said that the roster would be changing pretty regularly… but I never imagined NIGHTLY. I assume through omission in the story that Bailey will be back. I have a feeling that they are going to want on-ice protecton for Nino because of the Cammy crap. I’d guess he could beat the crap out of cammy without breaking a sweat, but the worry would be to keep anybody else in red off Nino… and Martin can do that better than Trevor, who I guess will be scratched. I can’t see sub 2min nights for anybody once Nino is sent back…
Lines????
NN-JB-BC
MMo-JT-PP
MMa-FN-DW
JS-ZK- (do they need another call-up, is RSH ready, do they go with 7d….CIAO BRUNO)
Am I missing something/somebody?
Iin Newsday I read, the islanders blew, and now I can't see for myself, cause they're on MSG+2... Thanks Dolan
This is not good.....
I had to go to the Isles site and the Roster to see wh JS and BC are. :shake: :rolleyes:
Damn these injuries are getting annoying.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 25, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm
If you’re saying that you had to look at a roster to see who Jon Sim was…and you’re from Nova Scotia… SHAME ON YOU!
Sorry… I have done the initials thing forever to save time… but I can see where it’s more of a hassle trying to figure out what the hell I’m talking about.
Iin Newsday I read, the islanders blew, and now I can't see for myself, cause they're on MSG+2... Thanks Dolan
LOL
I think it was more confusion that you abbreviated a six-letter name!
Community Projected to have eleven more posts before blowing out his laptop
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
You just made me think of a new game...
coming to a fanpost near you…
Iin Newsday I read, the islanders blew, and now I can't see for myself, cause they're on MSG+2... Thanks Dolan
Keep It Simple, Stupid:
As long as Zenon doesn’t start taking bad penalties or giving the other team Power Plays, it’s fine. I don’t think he’s gotten into a fight where losing him would be crucial to us winning or losing the game. I think the reality is when the games on the line and we have to keep the other team from scoring in the last 2 minutes your going to see a lot more of Frans then Zenon.
Even Thomas Pock can't believe someone thinks he's an NHL talent.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Zenon...
Have to throw my two cents in here…We have not had a player like Zenon in a long time. An agitator who can actually play a little that you are not afraid to put out there in a defensive situation or win a big draw. He is always willing to take on the middleweights of the NHL and got the Rangers sturring pre-game. I think he has a ton more value than Nate Thomson and Trevor Gillies put together. He has been pretty good on the PK as well. I would certainly rate Hunter below Zenon at this point.
Update on Grabner via his twitter...groin injury...officially listed as day to day.
By the looks of his comments, he is preparing to play on Wednesday.
That's good...
for everybody except Trevor. If they keep matt up… which they most likely will… especially if this is the end of the 2010-11 NHL season for Nino. It’s looking as though Nino will be headed to Portland. Trevor Scratched, Matt in… RSH back soon.
Iin Newsday I read, the islanders blew, and now I can't see for myself, cause they're on MSG+2... Thanks Dolan
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
