No. 1 Goalie? Sorry Rolo, it's DP
by The Fitz on Jan 7, 2010 9:10 PM EST
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PrintThere has been lots of debate on message boards and blogs on what should be done with Rick DiPietro once he is FULLY recovered. I am here to say that there is no debate. When Ricky is healthy, HE is the number one goaltender of the New York Islanders.
This is in no way a slight to Roloson. He has played outstanding hockey thus far this season. There is no question about that. If there was an All Star game this year, he would probably be their representative. He is tied for 13th in wins, which is pretty impressive considering the goalie duo we had last year, and the continued lack of depth on the blueline. But he could be tied for first in the league in wins and it would not matter.
Why?
15 years, $67.5 million
It is that simple. Really. Once Ricky signed that contract, that was it. When healthy, he became the number one goaltender for this franchise for the next 15 years. They made their beds with that deal. Now they need to live with it. You cannot have your $4.5 million per goalie as your back up. Not when there are 12 years left on his deal. This is not the same as the Giguere situation in Anaheim. He does not have 12 years left on his deal. He can be traded. Ricky cannot be traded.
Now the question of WHEN he resumes his job as number one goalie is a good one. And the answer is still not known. He needs to be COMPLETELY healthy before he resumes the workload of a number one goalie in this league. But when he is healthy, the job is his. He does not need to win the job back from Roloson. And do not start feeling bad for Roloson. He was well aware of this when he signed the two year contract this summer. He is a 40 year old goaltender who was offered a two year contract by the Islanders when everyone else was offering him a one year deal. He knew when he signed that deal he was giving up playing time for more job security and money.
All this being said. I do not believe Ricky will ever be the type of goalie that will play 70 to 75 games a year. They will always need a very capable back up. We should feel very fortunate that for the rest of this year and next year, that back up goalie will be Dwayne Roloson.
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That’s the reality of the situation. It’s also why Roloson was the perfect signing: Giving him two years is just fine, because realistically we weren’t (and won’t) know how healthy/how back in form DiPietro would be until at best the end of this season.
Even then, even if DP’s somehow lights out in March, you don’t want to go into next year without good insurance because like you said, his days of 70-game seasons are probably over. Roloson was the best route to ease the transition, because 1) he’s quite good, and 2) it’s not like playing backup next year will stunt his career. Well, unless his fountain of youth keeps pouring well into his 40s.
Lighthouse Hockey: Eyes on Tavares, mug full of Moulson.
A different view
I see the 12 years left on his contract as being a reason to keep him out. They obviously aren’t going to buy him out and they can’t (or won’t) trade him. But with 12 years on the contract there’s no outside forces to play/sit him. Wait until there’s a real defense in front of him. Until more players are scoring then Okposo/Moulson/Tavares. When the team is for real and it’s going to really go for the playoffs that’s when you want DiPietro to be starting.
Unless he goes cold at the end of the year or looks awful in camp I expect Rollie to be the starter at least at the beginning of the season next year. All of what I’m saying is pointless if DiP goes in and gets hot, but I don’t expect it. I think DiP will get between 10-15 starts for this year (about one game a week) and next season Gordon will do the same thing he did this year, rotate starts until one takes over the position.
"So basically, the Stats make no sense whatsoever."
I see where you are coming from. But I think we forget how good DP is when healthy. Lord knows it’s been so long. But when this guy is healthy, he’s a top 10 goalie in this league.
Plus, you can’t have DP as a back up the next 3 years and then once our team is more developed and ready to contend, just stick him back in the starting role and expect him to play like a starter. He is the goalie of this franchise, and it’s something we need to except. I know it’s been tough the past 2 years because of his injuries, but this is the path the Isles chose when they signed him to that deal.
i’m inclined to lean webBards way here… the team showed it’s hand when the signed 2 goalies and drafted 2 more, they don’t know what they have in rick, and are insured in case he is now a mediocre netminder — money and contract is a factor, but they bought out yashin and will buy out rick if he posts Bport-esque #’s this year and next (.893 save %)
why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?
Thanks, but I really don’t think they will buy out DiP’s contract. I think even if they have to keep him as a backup for a while they’d rather that then buy out another contract. Not only that, but I’m sure if they did buy him out, another NHL team would be more then willing to sign him to a one or two year contract and give him a shot as a backup.
"So basically, the Stats make no sense whatsoever."
first problem though is we don’t know what he will be like when he comes back. Do I want him to return to form? Sure. But the closest example I can think of of a player being away from a game this long is Mike Vick. I live outside of Philly so I’ve seen him play this year, and despite being a part of preseason and training camp he didn’t come anywhere near his old form till three quarters of the way through the season. I don’t think after missing this much time you can just throw DiP out there as a starter immediately. Not only that, but as much as I disliked Rollie, he’s obviously won the starting job and deserves to keep it till he losses it.
I didn’t say he’d be backup for 3 years, but unless something major happens I expect Rollie to be starter next season and DiP to start getting more starts around the halfway mark of next year.
"So basically, the Stats make no sense whatsoever."
game to game day to day
I think that you need to go with whomever is playing better. It does not matter how big a contract you have, how old you are etc because that will not help the team. A hot goalie will. I have serious doubts about dp returning. He has bee injured for a very long time. Rollosson has been great why rock the boat? If DP stinks then eat the contract a la yashin and move on. Obviously you will give him a million chances before you do. JT is the only guy I would give a long term contract to. I hope the isles finally learn there lesson that these contracts don’t work.
There is no way they buy him out. Yashin only had 4 years left on his deal. If they bought DP out they would have him on the books for another 24 years. Come on, that’s not happening!
And yes, the contract does mean everything here. That is the reality of the salary cap world in the NHL. If this were baseball and there was no cap, you could afford to have a big money contract not play. But not in the salary cap age.
Look, I am not saying that DP is going to play better the Roloson. That is not the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that it doesn’t matter if Roloson is playing better. DP will be the number one goalie when healthy.
I am also not saying that I am happy about that. If DP comes back and is less then he was, it is bad for us long term. But again, the Isles made their beds with this contract and now they have to live with it.
As my father always says, “Life sucks for everybody”
If they buy him out for the next 24 years then they only have 2.25 mil per year against the cap. And with the cap rising it might not be that bad. Let’s face it if he stinks they have to do that. And if he stinks he stinks. The islanders cant be bad for the next 12 years. If DP is healthy and he is still worse than rolosson then he needs to be back up until he is better than him. Nothing wrong with competition regardless of your contract. Nobody HAS to be NO.1 Look at Barry Zito. Signed a huge contract and he stinks. He is not the Giants NO1 starter is he? Last I heard he is in the bullpen. All I am saying is he has to earn it.
Woohoo! Our first Healy username!
Welcome ;)
And if he stinks he stinks. The islanders cant be bad for the next 12 years. If DP is healthy and he is still worse than rolosson then he needs to be back up until he is better than him.
Yeah, I absolutely agree with this. My thinking on him being the starter whenever optimal health and performance arrives is that, if all things are equal (in other words, if DP’s performance becomes similar to Roloson’s), then they’ll run with DP even though Roloson has carried the ball all year.
I don’t necessarily expect a semblance of that level from DP until maybe next year (if then), but in the meantime the contract doesn’t guarantee him anything, and if he never gets it back then the Isles will have to ease him into the reality of backup life. What the contract does get him is a much longer window to show he can be an NHL goalie again. We could even be watching a development curve like 2001-2005 all over again.
Lighthouse Hockey: Eyes on Tavares, mug full of Moulson.
I agree. This is going to be a long development curve. Glad you like my username. FOr all you young guns he is the last goalie to win a playoff series in an Islander uniform. Getting back to the discussion, this contract so huge that he has to be No.1 is ridiculous. What if Marty Brodeur was in your farm system. What your going to make him your back up or trade him. That would be downrght nutty. I guess then that DP is too big to fail just like the banks….
Supposed story about Healy, The Lightning or the Panthers were going to trade him back to the Islanders, Maloney insulted the GM by not taking his call so they traded Healy to the Rangers.
"So basically, the Stats make no sense whatsoever."
One of the more infuriating ones. What kills is Healy absolutely wanted to stay/come back. I guess that he won a Cup is the lone bright side of 1994.
Lighthouse Hockey: Eyes on Tavares, mug full of Moulson.
Ah…..1994……remember it well. The Rangers Stanley Cup run was Special because it went through the Devils and Islanders…..I think we shut the Isles out at least twice 6-0, 6-0 I think you scored 3 goals in the 4 game sweep. That 1994 team was just a great hockey team, despite being from Edmonton. Sorry to gloat, doesn’t happen much these days since……1994 in fact. I wish the Rangers were building a team during the futile years from 97 through 02. You guys are on the right track and getting Milbury out was the key.
That 1994 team was just a great hockey team, despite being from Edmonton.
What a refreshingly objective quote coming from a Rangers fan!
Let Us Go, Islanders!
(Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 9, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry to gloat, doesn’t happen much these days
It’s okay. You’ve been very cool here, and I appreciate it. “Despite being from Edmonton” — classic. I hate 1994 with a passion, but honestly how many times have these two clubs gotten success by first knocking off the other? Those moments are part of the joy of fandom.
It really is a shame what happened to both these teams in the late ‘90s and early 2000s. I bet Bettman’s resume magically looks a lot better to people if a healthy New York rivalry sustained national attention during those years.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
In response to the Barry Zito situation. I stated above that in baseball you can get away with a large contract not being a big time player because of the lack of a salary cap. You just can’t do that in a salary cap league.
Also, is it YOUR 2.25 million that they will have to pay for the next 24 years? Before you start spending Wang’s money, try and ask yourself if you would want to pay someone you used to employ $36 million to just go away and not work for you anymore? (it’s only $36 million because it’s 2/3rd’s of the contract over double the years left).
you can do it in a salary cap league if you think it is going to be more beneficial to your team fitz. And if it is only 2/3rds of the salary that would make it even better. Lets face it hes had double knee surgeries and two concussions ever since he signed that contract. Your right it is not my money but if it was I never would have signed him to the contract to begin with. Nor would I have paid any money to Mike illbury. SUre losing the money would stink but it might be better to pay him off then having a bad injured goalie for 12 years!!!!!! That to me is worse if I am a billionaire losing 20 mil a season on the team itself. Maybe with the right players in place you can actually profit from the team rather than be stubborn and say this contract I gave dp is so bad I am just going to ride it out for a dozen years….
But there’s no way they give up and do a buyout any time soon. If he absolutely sucks and can’t get it back, he’ll retire and the Isles will offer him a nice office position or severance. If he’s average, they’ll keep him around for several years before they decide he can’t get it back.
Even without the franchise attachment, as long as there’s a chance he’ll resurrect his earlier form, they’re not going to risk paying him to do it elsewhere.
Lighthouse Hockey: Eyes on Tavares, mug full of Moulson.
well, i wouldn’t want a goalie that i cannot use in games on my roster for 15 years, i’d rather have the squeeze on the cap space and have a backup i can trust…
hopefully this is all moot, only time will tell but i’m talking worst case scenario here, and unlike the zito thing, the isles wouldn’t be able to hide him anywhere, they’d need to talk him into retirement/goalie coach (with a lucrative retirement settlement i’m sure and assistant gm role:-)
why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?
hopefully this is all moot, only time will tell
No kidding.
The non-worst, non-best case scenario is almost the worst: What if he comes back and plays like an average goalie for two years, but wants the undisputed starter’s role, but it becomes clear the team can’t be legit with him as a #1? That’s when it gets AWK-ward…. (And that’s why you don’t sign 15-year deals, but…).
Still, in the last nine months or so, he has sounded far more realistic about his situation/career, so I have hope he’ll see things in proper context.
/hopes, again, that this is moot
Lighthouse Hockey: Eyes on Tavares, mug full of Moulson.
Still, in the last nine months or so, he has sounded far more realistic about his situation/career, so I have hope he’ll see things in proper context.
that’s actually kinda scary, he was as cocky as they came, if he doesn’t have that swagger anymore… … … ;-(
why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?
Scary thought. But I have a feeling his competitive juices haven’t gone away.
Lighthouse Hockey: Eyes on Tavares, mug full of Moulson.
agree #1, but maybe not for this season
Rick DiPietro is our #1, but he has to play 1st and play well. Right at this moment Roloson is #1, and Rick will come in, hopefully play tonight and be able to play again next week. I would play Rick mainly every other game at most this year, and keep an eye on him, very close eye.
I hope that maybe Rolo can be a great Veteran mentor for Rick for more than next year, Roloson does seem to be in great shape and durable, maybe it is genetic, or luck but maybe Rick needs someone to show him how to stay in shape and prepare. I hope he can be that guy, and stay with the isles as a backup until he is ready to retire.
marty Biron, has been a tough luck goalie this year, he could easily have a few more wins..if Rick is healthy I hope we can find a good solid trade for some D, a decent goal scoring blue liner, or some draft picks for next year.
agree #1, but maybe not for this season
Rick DiPietro is our #1, but he has to play 1st and play well. Right at this moment Roloson is #1, and Rick will come in, hopefully play tonight and be able to play again next week. I would play Rick mainly every other game at most this year, and keep an eye on him, very close eye.
I wouldnt even play Rick every other game- that would make him equal to Roloson, and at this point he is NOT equal to Roloson. IMO Rick should get like 4-5 games a month MAX for the forseeable future.
Rolsoon is the Isles #1 this year… and if all goes well with Rick, he can be half of a tandem NEXT year and split things equally with Rick. I personally wouldnt look at rick as the clear-cut #1 on this team for at least a year from right now.
Let Us Go, Islanders!
(Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 9, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Me too. As far as I’m concerned, DP at most takes on Biron’s role right now, unless (and until?) he suddenly becomes lights-out. I don’t want to go 0 to 60 mph with him. Not even 0 to 45.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
Exactly, Dom. Thankfully, the Isles finally seem to be looking at things this way. I really hope it continues, and they do not get all dreamy-eyed about Rick as soon as he has a great game or two.
Let Us Go, Islanders!
(Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 9, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
I really hope it continues, and they do not get all dreamy-eyed about Rick as soon as he has a great game or two.
Damn, I hadn’t even thought of that. Imagine if he threw a shutout sometime in the next month (Hey, even Joey MacDonald shutout Detroit in Detroit — it could happen, with the help of the right posts.). Hopefully they don’t jump the gun. Like you said, they’ve been much smarter this time around.
Lighthouse Hockey: Under contract through 2021, knees and hips be damned.
I get what youre saying earthworm and Id normally agree, but… if Rick had won last night, I still wouldnt play him right away. Even if Rick had gotten a frickin shutout last night, I STILL wouldnt play him right away.
Let Us Go, Islanders!
(Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 9, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
thats what I am saying
I agree, that is why I was saying at most, and that wouldn’t be til the end of the season if we arent in the hunt for a spot in th eplayoffs. He should actually play a few more games at Bridgeport to get some speed back.
I would still look at a trade for Biron, and if need be use a backup from Bridgeport when needed to fill a 3-4 game spot start
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