Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Champions League Preview with Jimmy Conrad

Peeking at new stats: What is Doug Weight's ideal role?

Islanders games were a shooting gallery last season, with our guys typically on the losing end. The Islanders gave up 4.6 more shots per game than they delivered (33.5 SA vs. 28.9 SF). Only Florida was worse (34.7 SA vs. 29.4 SF).

But what does "worse" mean? The Panthers lost out on the 8th seed by virtue of a tie breaker. They were no dynamo (Moscow or otherwise), but the Panthers were by all measures quite a bit better than the Tavares-landing Isles.

(While we're wondering: Was the Isles' shot differential due to Scott Gordon? His "overspeed" style? The players' adjustment to it? The fact that everyone was injured, so the lineup was constantly in flux, and thus no one adjusted to it? Just a weak roster, period? Talent-wise, who are the roster's biggest culprits?)

This, friends, is why statheads are always trying to delve deeper into advanced stats to uncover truer quantitative reflections of what's going on in this very fluid, very qualitative game. It's a topic James Mirtle coincidentally brought up today -- so see that post if the "new metrics" are completely foreign to you.

I've been meaning to bring it up because of an interesting post at Objective NHL that supports what I think about Frans Nielsen and Trent Hunter as hockey players, but leaves me wondering what to think about Doug Weight (who, of course, was injured three times last year, so...). If metrics like "Corsi" and "zone start" scare you, your are not alone: I beg you stick with me for a moment: I'm no stathead myself -- as with home improvement, I can try it myself, but I know an expert will do it 10 times faster with 1/10th of my mistakes. So I'm solely a stat consumer, looking for another bit of context for a game that is mercy to injury, ice time, coaching and your linemate's hangover.

Which brings me back to Doug Weight ...

Star-divide

I know from observation and production figures that Weight was valuable to the power play last year -- a distant but definite second in importance to Mark Streit, but still a key at the point. When Weight was missing, the power play suffered; when Streit was missing, it was a disaster.

But what of Weight at even strength? We think of the Islanders as suddenly deep at center: Nielsen will be very good for a third-line center; Josh Bailey will probably be a very good second-line center; John Tavares should be a very good scorer, though it's in question whether he can best fill that role (eventually) as a first-line center. Which means no one (including Weight, 38 and past his prime) is an ideal #1 center right now.

But Weight might draw those important #1 center minutes -- even if at even strength he may not be the best to handle them. Consider:

In the Objective NHL post I was referring to, you can see (one measure of) each team's top 5 and bottom 5 performers at even strength. So, the Islanders' top 5 and bottom 5 line up like this (with Hilbert being 5th best, despite his "minus"):

Top 5
McAmmond 112.7
Nielsen 40.5
Hunter 30.8
Bergenheim 19.1
Hilbert -33.6
Bottom 5
Weight -247.6
Bailey -258.8
Callahan -259.5
Sim -272.6
Comrie -307.9

 

The intent is to see who performed best by their Corsi number adjusted for zone start (i.e. adjusted for a big factor that is beyond players' control: What zone they start their shift in).

[Wait! Before I lose you, in layman's terms: Corsi is like a more informative +/-: Instead of basing the +/- on goals scored alone, it is based on shots directed at the net (including blocked and wide shots), which means you are not statistically penalized for having a weaker goalie (say, an injured Rick DiPietro) who lets in bad goals, instead of a good one (say, a hot Yann Danis). But (this is the "zone shift" part): Like every coach, Scott Gordon puts some guys out more for defensive zone faceoffs, so they're naturally going to have more shots directed at the net on their watch than a sniper who is inserted more often for offensive zone draws. The adjustment for "zone shift" -- how much guys play and which part of the rink their shift starts at -- is an attempt to control for this. And that control is no small matter: See how Derek at Copper & Blue pointed out that men with small Corsis have small ears -- I mean, draw the tougher assignments -- which is probably why Brendan Witt (despite his -34 and -356 "raw" Corsi) does not show up on this adjusted bottom 5 list.]

Now, the above exercise isn't perfect -- no metric is, but particularly so in hockey's fluid, overlapping positional game. Still, it gives us a little context, something to chew on.

But in simplified terms, all things being "equal" (ha!), only four Islanders were typically on the ice for more even-strength shots for than against last season, and one of them was a Senator for most of the season. It doesn't surprise me one bit that this measure favors Nielsen, Hunter and Bergenheim: They are well-rounded, smart hockey players, and Hunter is the perfect example of a player who lacks speed but can still handle Gordon's system responsibly. (Food for thought: But is this metric just accidentally backing up my existing bias?)

Meanwhile, at the bottom of the spectrum, we know Mike Comrie was a walking, hip-rehabbing ghost, Jon Sim was in the doghouse, Callahan had some very rough moments early on before coming around, and Josh Bailey likewise had several stretches of being a bit lost (understandably) during his rookie year.

But what about Weight? Has he become an even-strength, defensive liability -- as can be said for his miscast time in Anaheim? Is this just a reflection of giving him more ice time than he can handle at this age? Is it affected by the fact he had three separate injury spells last year -- and the "slow road back" involved when playing his way back? He managed 38 points, in only 53 games, so injuries are as much a part of his 2008-09 story as the power play is a part of his point production.

And if any of those factors "explain" his poor number by this metric, does that change the idea that he's an older veteran who has lost a step, can still do very things for your power play, but shouldn't be given a season-long load of first-line, important minutes? In other words, he is good at what he does, perhaps in brief bursts, as long as you know his body is at the age where his speed and health is prone to injury interruption.

I'm curious about any opinions you have on Weight or the Islanders center situation -- stat-based or otherwise. Is he the de facto #1 center? Given his age, do the Isles need to be careful about spreading the center minutes around? Have a different read? Have at it in comments.

Again, my intent isn't ever to turn every post into a haven for grids and tables of advanced metrics (You gotta stick with what you do best. On that note, if that's something you do well or are into, have at it with a FanPost and I'll front-page it.). But while I don't fill this site with stats galore, I do cruise the stats-heavy blogs, because I love the context and perspective they provide as they try to figure out just what we can "know" about this confounding game, which defies capture by numbers the way baseball is digested.

Plus, one day soon we'll be able to look at some of the "new stats" and see more pluses next to the Islanders players, so we won't be able to explain away every metric with "Well sure it looks bad, but look at his teammates."

Comment 3 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

A Mentor and then a Second Round Pick

Weight will have about a half year to mentor young Isle prospects and then he will be off to, say, St Louis to close out his career and Garth will have another asset for Draft Day. Josh Bailey belongs on the first line where he can dish to Kyle and maybe Teemu Pulkinnen or whoever we draft or sign this summer to be first line LW. JT should center the second line with Hunts and maybe Matt Moulson who we signed over a month ago. The Isles are a developing team. You have to see them in terms of where they are going, not so much where they have been.

by BCISLEMAN on Aug 13, 2009 6:53 PM EDT reply actions  

On this metric, Phil Kessel is Boston’s best player, which says enough in itself about how misleading the stat could potentially be. A more useful exercise from the defensive point of view would be to count and categorize mistakes that lead to scoring chances for the opponent. In this Weight-killing stat here, there are also many issues unrelated to the performance of individual players that still affect the stats of individuals, including Gordon’s system which he changed in mid-season. There are so many issues even within one hockey game, particularly for a losing team that is chasing the game, that the raw stat in itself tells little. I think this metric is more instructive in tight 5-game segments when simultaneously contrasted with actual real life performance and individual errors and the nature of those errors. A tool among many to monitor the performance of players over short periods of time, of interest but not conclusive. Clearly there are d-men and forwards who are defensive liabilities in the league and some of them show up on these lists (while some might show up at the wrong end of the list), but it is not a reliable guide to the performance of individuals in general terms.

by bearhunter on Aug 17, 2009 9:52 AM EDT reply actions  

Great points. Good food for thought in trying to grasp this. Thanks for those.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Sep 15, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

A New York Islanders blog for fans near and far. Hip and shoulder surgery not required.

FanPosts

Featured Poll

Poll
What else is Russian sports media telling us?

  76 votes | Results

Isles Reading

Islanders Schedule

1979-80


May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.

The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.

1980-81


May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.

Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.

1981-82


May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.

A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.

1982-83


May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.

Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.


Blog Bossy

Lhh-square_small Dominik

Enforcers & Snipers

Warlord2_small Mark D

Lighthouse_hockey_logo_2_medium_small Keith Quinn

Tubby_goalie_gif_small mikb

Hg_small Chris McNally

Master of FIGs and Power Tablature

Icon3_small ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles

Emeriti

Officials_sweater_1_small IslesOfficial

Headshot_small Michael Schuerlein

71096_479208120482_1257968_n_small David Hanssen