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Top pick: State of the Islanders' dilemma, April 24

What's an Islanders fan to do? If we're honest, we haven't seen a lick enough of John Tavares, Victor Hedman and now Matt Duchene (no, "those two WJC games" don't count) to truly inform our vote on which teenager would be the best choice as franchise cornerstone for the next (one hopes) decade.

And it's hard to separate the constant Canada-sourced Tavares hype of the last three years from what has been "learned" in the last season of more intense focus on 2009's draft elligible players. If it's a circus now, imagine what the next two months of chatter will bring?

So we rely on gut, the flow of info from scouts, and -- in the case of sniper vs. two-way forward vs. big D -- one's hockey philosophy. You might add to that the worry (because there is always room for more worry) that Hedman -- who as a big man is at risk for future back issues -- has already separated his shoulder at least once. Modern medicine is brilliant, but damaged goods often expose themselves in the long-term -- and we are planning long-term here. Worth thinking about.

As noted here earlier this week, B.D. Gallof has been all over this by drawing the thoughts of three different non-team-affiliated scouts who will be heard from as the draft nears. His third installment arrives today. Here's the collection, followed by some other links (Remember that no matter what these lists say, they've changed as time has passed, and if these players' seasons continued on up through June 26, they would easily change again. Such is life in a changing, uncertain world. Now go buy U.S. bonds.):

  • Today: Mike Oke from ISS Hockey, who also coached Tavares and drafted him to Oshawa. He rates the top three as Tavares-Duchene-Hedman.
    Money quote on Tavares: "Every time John Tavares has been challenged, he has risen to the occasion."
  • Grant McCagg at McKeen's Hockey: Hedman-Tavares-Duchene.
    Money quote: "There may never have been a player above 6-5 that skates better than Hedman - his package of size and skating is even more rare than Tavares' hands, which are exceptional."
  • Red Line Report's Kyle Woodlief, who had Tavares at #1 in mid-season (and Duchene at #6 back in August) but ignited the latest buzz with a shift to Hedman-Duchene-Tavares.
    Money quote: "Tavares in London and even Oshawa plays in a wide open type game. Brampton [Duchene's team] plays a defensive NHL system. It is less cut loose and he's learned it well. Duchene is rounded out the defensive and rough edges. He's grown a lot."

So those are three scout views to add the quiver. I doubt we'll know Garth Snow's view until late June. Other concerns of the moment include:

One response to Botta noted the information overload and bemused something to the effect of: "I'm glad this isn't covered like the NFL draft, or my brain would short-circuit." Amen to that. Add to that notion that there would be five times the number of half-ass opinions flowing over the airwaves. Sometimes, it's nice to follow a "niche" sport.

For the past few months, we've had a Tavares v. Hedman poll that has consistently run 80% Tavares, 20% Hedman. Perhaps it's time to refresh the vote and add Duchene to the mix. Vote with your ... whatever it is that informs your vote. Feel free to explain yourself in comments (and it's OK if you change your mind three times. We won't run a smear campaign commercial calling you a "flip-flop" for actually adapting when new information has come to light, man).

So where do I fall? Well, I've always been drawn to the franchise cornerstone D as a way to build your team. But I see the draw, the instant reward, and the marketable necessity of doing the "right" move with Tavares. I know if they go with Tavares, both the draft itself and next season will be made much more tolerable to be around Joe Islanders Fan. For sanity, I'm quietly hoping for Tavares. (If that sounds like a cop-out, fine: Piss off (nicely). I don't have an army of scouts, video, and combine and psychological testing at my disposal.)

What comforts me at night? Whatever the pick, the Islanders cannot go wrong.

Poll
The latest scout views are in. Opinions vary. If you're the Islanders, who, now, do you pick at #1?
Tavares - Three years of scrutiny and hype, he's still the star
532 votes
Hedman - Franchise sequoia defensemen fall from the sky but once a decade
148 votes
Duchene - He's like Stevie Y! (the '90s, two-way version)
50 votes

730 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 6 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Two Long Months to Wait

Hey Dom,

Thanks for the mention there. Just to interject my own opinion (as I’ve done time and again) I would so rather this whole debate be only over Tavares v. Duchene. I really wish Hedman would have come along either last year or next year. This whole agonizing process would be so much easier.

For his part, Matt Duchene has absolutely rocked the scouting world with some really eye-opening play of late. In my mind, he represents a more complete NHL center who can put up in the 70-80 point range than John Tavares.

You’re absolutely right about Tavares’ sex appeal though. I mean, come on Kyle Woodleif. What NHL team wouldn’t want a guy who puts up 40-50 goals a year on a consistent basis? You’d be nuts to not want that.

My gut however, is telling me otherwise. Prolific scorers (see Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Iginla, Forsberg, Sakic, Yzerman, Cheechoo?) are a more frequent occurrence than cornerstone D-men (Pronger, Lidstrom, Potvin, Bourque, Coffey, Stevens). The true last cornerstone Islanders defenseman WAS Denis Potvin. He retired in the late 80’s folks. The last pure goal-scorer we had? Ziggy Palffy. I’m thinking 1996 there and he came and went.

What I’m trying to say is that Garth knows that the fans want a goal scorer but he also knows his history. A defenseman that can play 25+ minutes a game and control the game by keeping the other team from scoring AND helping his own team put points on the board is rare skill set indeed.

As one commenter on Botta’s latest post said, “You can teach defense”. Sure you can. But in the case of a John Tavares he’s never been taught to play a two-way game. He’s never needed it. Even his own coaches have stated that fact. The problem at the NHL level is players NEED to play a two-way game. He’ll get his fair share of points at the NHL level but he’ll never truly be regarded as a complete NHLer.

I’m almost positive from hearing Snow’s voice on the conference call after the Draft Lottery and seeing him around the Coliseum in the weeks leading up to the end of the season that he’s pretty well got Hedman ahead of Tavares on his Draft Chart. Matt Duchene might be the only thing that will give him pause when making a decision along that line because of his solid two-way play and playmaking ability.

From the Penalty Box to the Blog Box! Check it out at Isles Official's Outlook!

by IslesOfficial on Apr 24, 2009 2:59 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Very very interesting stuff

I’m pickin’ up what you’re layin’ down.

Question: If Tavares could put up Joe Thornton numbers (I realize Thornton is pass-first, shoot-second, but for argument’s sake…), yet would only play “defense” the way Thornton sleepwalked through three Ducks goals last night, what would you do?

I’ve given Thornton the benefit of the doubt because one’s playoff rep can be exaggerated via the curse of a small sample, but last night was the final straw for me. If you’re floating back into your own zone doing an essentially do-or-die game in the first round of your best shot to ever win the Cup… I’ll pass.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Apr 24, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

The best defense is a good offense

IslesOfficial makes a good argument, but I disagree completely. I’ve been an Islanders fan since I was six (I’ll turn 36 next month) and believe me, Hedman is no Denis Potvin. Potvin is a once in a generation player. The alleged experts are comparing Hedman to Chris Pronger. I don’t think Pronger belongs in the “franchise defenseman” category with the likes of Potvin, Orr, Robinson, Lidstrom, Bourque, etc.. He’s big and can skate well, but he hasn’t put up any great offense numbers. The Islanders already have a great offensive defenseman in Streit. The Islanders need defensive defenseman and an offensive force which is what Tavares is. The Islanders can address the defensive needs through free agency. What they really need is someone who can put the puck in the net on a consistent basis and that’s what Tavares brings. He’s been in the spotlight for the last three years. Every opposing team he faced has game planned to stop him and yet he still nearly averages two points a game. The Isles problem has been a lack of offense. I mean Okposo leads the teams with 18 goals? Are you serious? He was injured for a chunk of the season. He is going to be really good, but think about how great he will be with Tavares as his linemate.

The Islanders also need a face of the franchise, which is something they haven’t had since Pat LaFontaine. John Tavares will give them that identity and put people in the seats. The Islanders need to draft Tavares with the first overall pick. Now, what they should do with their other first rounder and three second rounders…that’s another story.

by poco on Apr 25, 2009 9:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Interesting stuff

I can’t say I disagree with your thinking on a lot of this, particularly the “face of the franchise” and the absolute rarity of a Potvin.

We don’t know what Hedman will be, though. I think the Pronger comparisons are just due to his size, which frankly helps Pronger shut down a team just in reach and wingspan alone. (I’ve seen a lot comparing other parts of Hedman’s game to other D-men, but who knows?) Pronger may not be in the ilk of those other Hall of Famers, but he is a franchise defenseman in my book. You can build a team around him (Well, he’s getting older now, but…). His scoring is consistently high, his defense is phenomenal, and while he won’t rush the puck up ice, his outlet passes have the same effect. (His discipline and cheap tactics are another story…)

(As an aside, I disagree with “best defense is a good offense” though. Best defense might be a fantastic, other-worldly offense — if you can get it and if you don’t run into an all-world goaltender. But unless you can build a Washington offense — and even they may be bested by Lundqvist — I think you have to build from the back. That said, I agree the Isles are more likely to attract above-average D-men through free agency than they are to attract dynamic scorers.)

But who knows? Fun stuff to toss around, this. I still believe the Isles can’t really go wrong. Any of these top prospects’ worst projections sound really really good.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Apr 26, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Take Tavares

I’ve already talked myself into Duchene

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Apr 27, 2009 11:09 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, and he’s an Avs fan, and we already have those jerseys made up, so it’s really the best for everyone.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Apr 27, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

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New York Islanders Roster

# Pos. DOB W H
Josh Bailey 12 LW 10/2/1989 190 6-1
Rick DiPietro 39 G 9/19/1981 190 6-1
Mark Eaton 4 D 5/6/1977 215 6-1
Michael Grabner 40 RW 10/5/1987 185 6-0
Travis Hamonic 3 D 8/16/1990 203 6-2
Milan Jurcina 27 D 6/7/1983 253 6-4
Andrew MacDonald 47 D 9/7/1986 196 6-1
Matt Martin 17 LW 3/8/1989 210 6-3
Al Montoya 35 G 2/13/1985 203 6-2
Mike Mottau 10 D 3/19/1978 190 6-0
Matt Moulson 26 LW 11/1/1983 205 6-1
Evgeni Nabokov 20 G 7/25/1975 200 6-0
Aaron Ness 55 D 5/18/1990 170 5-10
Nino Niederreiter 25 RW 9/8/1992 205 6-2
Frans Nielsen 51 C 4/24/1984 184 6-0
Kyle Okposo 21 RW 4/16/1988 205 6-0
Jay Pandolfo 29 LW 12/27/1974 190 6-1
P.A. Parenteau 15 LW 3/24/1983 193 6-0
Marty Reasoner 16 C 2/26/1977 205 6-1
Dylan Reese 42 D 8/29/1984 201 6-1
Brian Rolston 11 LW 2/21/1973 215 6-2
Steve Staios 24 D 7/28/1973 200 6-1
Mark Streit 2 D 12/11/1977 197 6-0
John Tavares 91 C 9/20/1990 202 6-0
Tim Wallace 36 RW 8/6/1984 207 6-1
Ty Wishart 6 D 5/19/1988 222 6-4
Calvin de Haan 44 D 5/9/1991 187 6-1

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