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Biron v. Roloson: You make the call

"I'm old enough, I'm crotchety enough, I'm good enough, and doggone it, people like me."

More photos » Kathy Kmonicek - AP

"I'm old enough, I'm crotchety enough, I'm good enough, and doggone it, people like me."

Maybe it's a sign of how close they are, but I've been surprised at the wide array of very firm opinions on whether Martin Biron or Dwayne Roloson: a) is a better 'keeper, and b) has been better this season. I'm not talking just fans who have watched Islanders games, but fans of the Sabres and Devils who were alternately relieved that Biron or Roloson started against their team.

It's especially fun for me because I don't have yet have a preference -- not on this year's work. You can cite their (rather minimal) playoff histories, you can cite the teams they played behind, and you can talk about specific goals allowed this year that expose tendencies in their game. Plus, there's always: Roloson is old. But I'm unconvinced, at least for their performance thus far.

So I'll throw some figures out there -- there's a little more after the jump -- and you make your argument. One thing I'll concede, though it's very early: Continuing his recent trend, Roloson's save percentage on the penalty kill is quite strong (.925), whereas Biron's thus far is not (.867). On the other hand, the Isles have scored far more for Roloson than they have for Biron. (NYI-GF is goal support, or how many goals the Islanders have scored when they're in net.).


GP MIN W L OT NYI-GF GA GAA SA Tot-Sv% PK-Sv% SO
2009 - Martin Biron 9 509 1 5 2 15 24 2.83 283 .915 .867 1
2009 - D. Roloson 9 526 5 1 3 28 24 2.74 278 .914 .925
0

Star-divide

Note: GF/GA totals don't match the team GF/GA you'll see in the standings, because for some insane reason the NHL counts shootout W/L as a GF or GA in the standings, just one of many reasons the shootout is an unholy affront to Western civilization.

 

Opponents: One more factor I don't put too much stock in, particularly at this point, but it's fun to toss out there: Which teams have they played against? Here are the combined records (as of today) of the teams Roloson and Biron have started against. (That means Buffalo is counted once for Roloson and twice for Biron.) The first record excludes the games these two started.

Biron opponents (minus his starts): 69-43-8  |  Including Biron's starts: 74-44-8
Roloson opponents (minus his starts): 72-51-15  |   Including Roloson's starts: 73-54-17

So what'll it be? I know many of you have expressed opinions already or over the summer, but has your opinion changed at all? Do these numbers influence you? And while I'm focused on this season's performance, you can consider this an open thread to debate the traditional "he's playoff-tested"/"He's old"/"His contract makes him better trade bait" ideas as well.

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As a concerned fantasy owner, put my vote for Biron.

GF/GA totals don’t match the team GF/GA you’ll see in the standings, because for some insane reason the NHL counts shootout W/L as a GF or GA in the standings, just one of many reasons the shootout is an unholy affront to Western civilization.

Amen to that. I can tell you the reason the NHL does it, though — it likes to brag about artificially-inflated offense.

http://www.battleofcali.com/

by Earl Sleek on Nov 8, 2009 3:19 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

For the sake of his trade value, I really hope Biron starts to carry your fantasy team to new heights.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 9, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Roly all the way

and the most telling stat isn’t even up there: playoff performance. One very telling stat that IS up there is the PK %. Thats’ when a team really needs its goalie to shine and Roly has. I like Marty, but Roly’s the guy.

by BCISLEMAN on Nov 8, 2009 3:34 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Roli’s definitely had the more distinguished career.

by johnmac7512 on Nov 8, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if it will happen for us this year but...

if I get to a game that I just have to win, Roly is my guy. He has proven he can win the money games. And he is dramatically better on the PK.

by BCISLEMAN on Nov 8, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m a fan of Birons after watching him the last two years for Philly when I did manage to get a game. I think the GF/GA is most telling between them. The Isles have scored nearly twice as many goals with Rollie in net then Biron.

But it doesn’t really matter. Both of them are doing exactly what we needed from them. They’ve come in, and solidified the goalie position which was awful last year. Its not Rollie Vs Biron as long as the team wins. There haven’t been any games which Biron or Rollie lost that you say to yourself “If only (Other Goalie) was in net instead of him”. The weak showings from either of them seem to be in the past, and if they have a bad game its more because of whats in front of them.

Also, Biron is definitely the trade bait of the two. I think the whole reason for Roloson being signed was so the Isles had a solid backup for the next two seasons while the prospects in Bridgeport came along.

by WebBard on Nov 8, 2009 4:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I was going to say Biron

has been slightly better this year from what I’ve watched, but those numbers say Roloson has been a little better. Either way, they have been about equal this year. One thing about Roli: he’s been really slow moving inside the crease and doesn’t always get to the spot that quickly. Might be his age catching up with him. If I had to pick one going forward, I’d take Biron, just because he is younger and the difference between him and Roli is minimal.

by johnmac7512 on Nov 8, 2009 5:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Rolly slow side to side

I agree with what you said exactly. I think Rolly has played very well and makes himself as big as possible and is very good at playing the point shots. He is very slow on the wraparounds or whenever the other team controls behind the net. Biron is just more balanced I feel

by Big Swoopty on Nov 8, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

… as long as that go-to moment isn’t a breakaway/shootout? :P

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 9, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha yeah

Roli’s been atrocious in shootouts this year.

by johnmac7512 on Nov 9, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I almost get the sense Roloson is the wise old hand, like he plays the game a little smarter. They’ve both had long careers, but maybe for Roloson when the clock is ticking on your career it really crystallizes every little advantage you need to seize to stick around.

I agree on the side-to-side movement. On the other hand, one complaint about Biron has been him cheating off the post.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 9, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Numbers be damned I would love to say that they were dead even in terms of play but the numbers don’t exactly tell you who is on the ice or what the demeanor of the team is at game time. From watching the games I would have to say that in the beginning of the season I would have said Biron…hands down. It just appeared that the team played a little better for him than they did for Rollie. Then there is the fact that he may have only stopped 1 shot on net during the shootouts in the Isles extensive body of work during the deciding activity of a tied/blown game.

That doesn’t make me get all warm and fuzzy. However it appears that after the team figured out his baseball swing clearing method and his desire to win in regulation,they appeared to come back a little more and and the backchecking appears to be helping the dmen to level a couple of people ie.Sutton’s Section of the tv side of the home net.

Where I once would have said Biron hands down there is now a lot of momentum with Rollie. However, I will stick with Biron because I believe that he has the energy to finish and stop at least one shot in the shootout when needed…which seems to happen a lot with this team.

by metalcoconut on Nov 9, 2009 3:41 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

both have had their ups and downs, if rollie was a little better in the shootouts, he’s looking like the far superior play…

that bogosian goal was weak, as was that blueliner in the devil game… they both have had some holes so far…

personally i prefer roloson as he’s less prone to shrinking low when he can’t find the puck, but i don’t think it’s a big margin between the two

why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?

by bob l on Nov 9, 2009 11:05 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

A DiPietro Sighting

He was at the Dogcatemy Awards for the North Shore Animal League the other night.

No casts or crutches in this pic Click Here

Personally, couldn’t they have gotten him a hip high dog so he didn’t have to bend over to pet him?

by WebBard on Nov 9, 2009 12:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Wow! I almost forgot what he looked like. I like the little dog that he seems to be coincidentally bending over to pet. That is rather amusing. You may as well add the caption “Look what I can do now,” below the picture.

by metalcoconut on Nov 9, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

lol, that’s not him, that’s his evil twin!

seriously tho, is it me or does he look really thin?

why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?

by bob l on Nov 9, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha, that does look thin. Must be the cut of the suit!

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 9, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He does look REALLY thin and not very healthy…maybe the pic just caught him at an awkward angle but I don’t know…

by mdelbags on Nov 9, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

could just be that i’m used to seeing him in his pads and all… but even his wedding photo, his face looks thinner … maybe it’s part of the rehab, the lighter you are the easier on the joints and all and you build up from there…

why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?

by bob l on Nov 9, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s right, he’s gotta ease the burden on those achy joints. The facial hair threw me, maybe that distorts proportions … but what happened to the camera adding 10 lbs.?

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 9, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Found a pic on the website from Sept 2008. He does look a lot thinner.

Sept 2008 Click Here

by WebBard on Nov 9, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

*adopts maternal role*

“Ricky, is that new woman of yours not feeding you enough? I just knew she wasn’t capable of taking care of my boy…”

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 10, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have a pic with him from that day. :) He was somewhat surprisingly bulked up then more than at any othre time in his career.

Lets go Islanders...

by TheMetalChick on Nov 10, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

found this on a fantasy sports site from the post about his weight loss…

Rick DiPietro (knee) is at least a month from returning to the lineup.
The goalie continues to work out on his own at the Islanders practice facility in Syosset. A noted fitness freak, doctors told DiPietro to lose some of the muscle in order to reduce the pressure on his wonky knees. He complied – although it’s not known how much weight he’s lost. It’s best to wait until DiPietro plays for a while before gambling on him.
Source: New York Post

why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?

by bob l on Nov 13, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I think its the shot itself, the facial hair, and that we are used to seeing him in gear.

Really though, I thought he bulked up a bit TOO much before last year. He doesnt need any extra lbs on those knees! Seriously.

His wedding pics were from just a few months ago and you say he looked thin but I think he looked great. I know youre mostly (all lol?) guys so everyone might not have looked at the wedding pics- they are here if you didnt see em and want to take a look.

Lets go Islanders...

by TheMetalChick on Nov 9, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And on HNIC Pierre LeBrun was talking about a couple more weeks…I only hope it means Bridgeport first.

Something tells me Thanksgiving will not be a quiet one.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 9, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

for as optimistic as you are with all other facets of the isles, i’m kinda surprised you’re pouring out such a negative view BC

there’s no rush for him to come back, he’ll be in bridgeport within 6 weeks getting game ready

why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?

by bob l on Nov 9, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

didn't say there was a rush...

it’s just that there have been so many rumors and he has been out for so long that I am just going to assume that he isn’t coming back until he actually does. I would love it if he came back and started creating Vezina-buzz and we could readily trade Roly as well as Marty. If and when it happens, I’ll be excited. Until then, I’ll believe it when I see it.

by BCISLEMAN on Nov 9, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

roloson is going nowhere, he has a 2nd year on his deal and that’s poison on the trade market considering not 1 nhl gm wanted to go 2 years with him (except for garth of course) – just my guess at least

why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?

by bob l on Nov 10, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

depends

if a team is pursuing the brass ring, it would be nice to know they have a goalie with his resume on the bench. I think there will be a market at the deadline for those select teams that have real aspirations of getting the Cup this year. Not saying Garth would be interested—he might not be—but I think there will be a market.

by BCISLEMAN on Nov 10, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL what bob said

But regardless, I don’t know anyone who will believe he’s game ready until they see it. This is a guy who, no matter how much pre-work is involved, is going to have people very nervous during his next NHL start.

Gonna be weird to see him in Bridgeport again.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 9, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It will be GREAT to see him in Bridgeport again. I cant wait for it, I might even have to talk my friends into a trip to see the sound tigers lol

Lets go Islanders...

by TheMetalChick on Nov 9, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As long as he doesn’t get back in time to somehow sneak into the All-Star game…

by WebBard on Nov 9, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i’m sure if he made it to another all star game Wang would politely ask him to skip lol

why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?

by bob l on Nov 10, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Quick comment from a Sabres fan

We know quite a bit about both these guys from their tenure here. Roloson came in during the ‘99 EC finals against the Leafs when Hasek was injured and while he was not spectacular, he did what he needed to do to get a win in Toronto. He’s a competent backup and will certainly win you games as a starter but he’ll never be anything more than an average NHL goaltender.

The knock on Biron has never been talent. He is probably one of the most skilled goaltenders playing. Why he’s been a backup/marginal starter for most of his career instead of the elite goaltender he could have become is because of his work ethic. He doesn’t practice well. He’s easily distracted because of his legendary gift of gab. He is probably better than Miller but what makes Miller a top-tier goaltender is that he works like a fiend to get better. Biron won’t and never has.

Biron is the better goaltender but he will lose his luster over time the more you play him and recognize his flaws. Start Roloson.

"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England

by Calvert on Nov 9, 2009 10:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

the thing is...

Roly became a different goalie after he left Buffalo. He twice took rather average teams to the third round of the playoffs and once to the Cup Finals. That is something that Marty has never and likely will never do. A lot of people might have said that Chico was “more talented” than Billy. The way that you can tell them apart today is that Billy is the one with the four championship rings and the Conn Smythe.

by BCISLEMAN on Nov 9, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Biron did lead the Flyers to the Confrence Finals, and you have to remember that it was a Flyer team one year removed from being one of the worst teams in the league.

by WebBard on Nov 10, 2009 8:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I had forgotten about that but...

I think if you compare the talent level on that Philly team and the Wild and the Oilers the years Roly took them (with the Wild to be fair it was in tandem with Fernandez), you’ll have to agree that Roly’s achievement was more significant. And he did it twice and got to the Finals once. Given that the Oilers then took Carolina to 7 without him, its not hard to believe they would have won the Cup with him.

by BCISLEMAN on Nov 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Calvert, thanks for giving us the Sabres fan perspective. The stuff on Biron is pretty interesting, and speaks to that strange inconsistency. Stunning to hear you say he might be more talented than Miller.

But I agree with BC on Roloson: He really did evolve after Buffalo. His years in Minnesota and then Edmonton (without the legendary Lemaire defense in front of him) showed me a guy who had reached another level. Now the question is how much he has left, and what kind of age-related decline has already happened.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 10, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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(updated 2.9.2010 at 9:00 AM EST)

New York Islanders Roster

# Pos. DOB W H
Josh Bailey 12 C 10/2/1989 188 6-1
Sean Bergenheim 20 LW 2/8/1984 205 5-10
Blake Comeau 57 RW 2/18/1986 207 6-1
Rick DiPietro 39 G 9/19/1981 210 6-1
Bruno Gervais 8 D 10/3/1984 205 6-1
Trent Hunter 7 RW 7/5/1980 210 6-3
Dustin Kohn 56 D 2/2/1987 200 6-2
Andrew MacDonald 47 D 9/7/1986 188 6-1
Freddy Meyer 44 D 1/4/1981 192 5-10
Matt Moulson 26 LW 11/1/1983 206 6-1
Frans Nielsen 51 C 4/24/1984 172 5-11
Kyle Okposo 21 RW 4/16/1988 200 6-1
Richard Park 10 RW 5/27/1976 190 5-11
Dwayne Roloson 30 G 10/12/1969 180 6-1
Rob Schremp 13 C 7/1/1986 200 5-11
Jon Sim 16 LW 9/29/1977 195 5-10
Mark Streit 2 D 12/11/1977 197 6-0
Andy Sutton 25 D 3/10/1975 245 6-6
Jeff Tambellini 15 LW 4/13/1984 186 5-11
John Tavares 91 C 9/20/1990 195 6-0
Doug Weight 93 C 1/21/1971 196 5-11

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