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NYT article on a year-long suspension given by the OHL president for a hit that caused a skull fracture. What do you think?

over 2 years ago Potvindenisnyi003_tiny BCISLEMAN 20 comments 0 recs  | 

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I don't like suspensions based on injury severity

In one interview, the commish even said “you could argue it was techncially a legal hit, but the injury…” so I don’t really know which conditions he’s basing it on.

That said, it was a vicious, intent-to-destroy hit. And given the guy’s history — he tried to obliterate Tavares from behind in the playoffs — I’ve no empathy for him. The Puck Daddy piece on this acted like it’s a terrible shame that this suspension ends his junior career. I don’t feel that way. Playing hockey is a privilege, not a right; if you play like a careless bum, them’s the breaks when you get thrown out.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 6, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions  

well Branch made the point that...

the on-ice official had called it illegal. He also apparently feels a sense of responsibility to those young men who may never go on to the NHL and to those who may want to play in the league.

by BCISLEMAN on Nov 6, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

to be fair

under law, you’re liable for the severity of an injury. If you and your friend get into a fight at a bar with the characters from Unbreakable, and you hit Sam Jackson and your friend hits Bruce Willis, you’re S.O.L – you’re gonna lose a lot more money in the ensuing civil trial than your friend will. It sucks, but that’s just the way it works.

So, in that sense, I can understand where this comes from – if you’re unlucky enough to illegally clock someone who gets seriously injured, you’re gonna get a harsher penalty. But, I agree that I don’t really like it. I think they should penalize the process, not the result. Is the intent behind an illegal hit that doesn’t lead to serious injury really any better than the intent behind one that does? I don’t think so.

Anyway, just wanted to finally put my law school pedigree to work for once, haha.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Nov 6, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyway, just wanted to finally put my law school pedigree to work for once, haha.

Haha, you knew it had to be good for something.

I just hate how Colin Campbell randomly inserts “the player wasn’t hurt” or “was hurt” in his explanations, when sometimes a guy can do something really, really dangerous and stupid and get away with it because the victim happened to not get a concussion or blown ACL.

If they codified things explicitly, then I’d be much happier about their enforcement.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 6, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree the NHL should be more clear, but I don’t think that’s the lesson from this incident (you can find that lesson almost every single night the NHL has games). I have no problem with “amateur” leagues having a more stringent set of rules for the extremely violent hits. The CHL has a per se penalty for any check to the head; I agree with that in the CHL context but would vehemently oppose that rule in the NHL. I don’t think the punishment in this case should be tied to the injury, though I’m sure a message is being sent because of the injury. This was an evil hit and that’s why it should be punished. Unfortunately, like the NHL, the CHL seems to be following the “results” enforcement. If the D had gotten up I bet nobody ever hears about this.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Rob Parker on Nov 7, 2009 4:03 AM EST up reply actions  

[Think about the assumption of risk, and how that changes the doctrinal analysis of regular citizens in a bar fight and hockey players (especially professionals) that engage in a violent sport with a different basic set of rules and behavioral assumptions.]

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Rob Parker on Nov 7, 2009 3:59 AM EST up reply actions  

It wasn’t a legal hit. I’ve watched it several times and you can count 5 strides in-screen and it seems like he was already winding up out of the picture. Then the Dman shows his back and the guy doesn’t even try to hold up a little bit. He buries his shoulder between the D’s shoulder pads. He’s a 20 year old CHL player with no offensive skill to speak of an a ton of PIM; it’s clear why he’s there. I have absolutely no sympathy for his suspension, especially given that every youtube “highlight” of his is either a questionable hit or a fight. The CHL includes players at a dangerous age range. Basically you have 16-20 and a few 21 year olds. That range spans a huge step in physical maturity, and as such you have some guys who are essentially grown men physically playing against what are still teenage boys. This guy falls into the former category and he makes his reputation praying on the latter.

The worst was listening to Bobby Clark talk about the hit on TSN. He said “I don’t like the suspension but what can you do? You can’t say ‘respect the other players’ because that’s crap.” Somehow it’s so fitting coming from him…

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Rob Parker on Nov 7, 2009 3:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree it wasn’t legal (and to the rest of your points, actually) … I don’t know why Branch was hedging in the interview I heard — it sounded almost like he wasn’t prepared.

And Clarke: That’s just excellent, typical, predictable from him. What an ass.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 7, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

What about Neil's hit on Hedman?

Hard to tell if he was taking a run at him or just happened to catch him unprepared.

by BCISLEMAN on Nov 8, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions  

He buries his shoulder between the D’s shoulder pads blades.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Rob Parker on Nov 7, 2009 3:58 AM EST reply actions  

maybe i’m in the minority here, i dont know, havent searched too many boards on this topic, it looked worse because of the late turn the player made to reverse the puck, it was def not in ‘intent to injure’ kinda hit, he didn’t go out of his way to hurt anyone, he just made a solid hit at a high speed, and unfortunatly the helmet flipping up and off was the most horrifying aspect of it…

to me the biggest issue of the suspension is the message it sends is unclear, can you not hit anyone, or can you hit but not injure?

i thought the HNL guys made 2 good points on this play… 1 the players need to be aware that they can (and will) be hit – today it seems more and more players don’t expect to be hit whereas in the past you pretty much braced yourself every time you touched the puck… and 2 the rules forbidding goalies to play the puck in the corners and allowing D men to run a little interference leave these players more vulnerable to big hits behind the net/goal line

i understand wanting to protect these younger guys and such, but if that REALLY was the case, as in the youth leagues, you will force these players to wear full masks so the likelihood of a helmet popping off is reduced to near 0%

what people sometimes forget is : this is sport, sport is generally violent and comes with a level of risk which all participants must accept and remember at all times

overindulging with protective rules changes the game in big ways, just look at the ARENA i mean National football league, where you are handcuffed with how you hit a QB – which has led to 300 yard passing games becoming the norm instead of the exception

why isn't #16 hanging in the rafters?

by bob l on Nov 9, 2009 11:24 AM EST reply actions  

If that player was NOT intending to injure...

he is pretty clueless. Apparently he has had a history of brutal hits. You can knock someone off the puck without causing serious injury. It is done all the time. Maybe the focus on the result of the play is warranted. When you hit someone wearing a helmet hard enough to cause a skull fracture, you’ve crossed a line.

by BCISLEMAN on Nov 9, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Good points, Bob

I used to be more resigned to “it’s a wild game out there, keep your head up” thinking, but the increase in speed and head injuries has got me adjusting my thinking. I don’t want things overlegislated, but some adjustments targeted at predatory hits might be in order.

When a defenseman has the puck behind his net, it’s hard for me to say any hit is “unexpected”; but some of the backchecking hits from the blindside are over the line for me and would require not so much restraint as a “hit the body, not the head” requirement on a checker who is coming up from the blindside of an unaware opponent. I think the game is too fast now to put all the burden on the hit recipient.

and 2 the rules forbidding goalies to play the puck in the corners and allowing D men to run a little interference leave these players more vulnerable to big hits behind the net/goal line

Interesting point, and reportedly at the next GM meetings they’ll be re-evaluating the trapezoid.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Nov 9, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

A comparison might be interesting...

Trot’s hit on Gainey in the 1984 playoff between the Isles and Habs and Roberts’ hit on Jonsson in the Isles-Leafs series and this hit. Neither of those plays were called. The Trots-Gainey hit was before this kid was born, but the other might have been something he saw and decided was OK.

by BCISLEMAN on Nov 9, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

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