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Ray Ferarro on fighting

Not to bring up fighting twice in the same week, but I found Ray Ferarro's take as a former player (albeit non-fighter) pretty interesting.

I am not opposed to fighting's place in the league -- and beyond that, I don't know how it could ever be unwound from the league's culture even if they tried. But as I've said before, I prefer fights from players who can actually play at this level (Clark Gillies, come on down). You know, fights that naturally evolve from actual game situations, rather than fights by one-dimensional guys who are inserted into the lineup only to fight the other team's ... one-dimensional guy (admittedly, that's a grey area depending on the player's skills).

Or, as former Islander Ferarro puts it:

I'm not anti-fighting - and although I never really won a fight (Steve Thomas sure pummeled me one Saturday night) I don't love the fight that has very little purpose in the context of the game. When the heavyweights go at it, who else does it affect? You cheer for your guy, he's your teammate, you don't want him to get hurt and these guys are generally as good a person as you will run into. The fight ends and the game resumes. What's changed? More room on the bench? The heavyweight doesn't play a lot (generally under five minutes) and unless he is a good skater who can throw his weight around, he has minimal impact on the other team's skill players.

I was always way more concerned with someone who finished every check with a purpose - think Cal Clutterbuck or Brenden Morrow - than with someone who I was never on the ice against. The big boys are popular with the fans and their team, but I believe, in time, we will see more lineups that have a middleweight like Shawn Thornton or Jared Boll, than heavyweights who are more limited in their game.

Of course, fights between the "goons" (I know they hate that term, but...) are entertaining. You bet I'm standing and watching along with the rest of the crowd. But I'm always left wondering, "what's the point, exactly?" Or as Ferarro says: "The fight ends and the game resumes. What's changed? More room on the bench?"

The season-opening fight between Colton Orr and Georges Laraque was one such instance. Less than two minutes into the season's first game, exactly what "policing" need had been created? What purpose, other than "this is what we do" -- like some such job justification loop? (We're here because we fight. We're fighting because we're here.) Those fights always feel the most artificial -- though obviously they help sell tickets.

Now just as I say that, last night a fight between young Wild John Scott and veteran Duck heavyweight George Parros "swings the momentum" of a 3-0 game, where the Wild come back to win. And sure, maybe you'd rather a designated goon -- as artificial to the game as baseball's designated hitter -- take the five minute major and injury risk rather than someone you count on to score. But I don't know ... seems like any player willing to fight could "swing the momentum" with a big fight -- and the fights from guys I don't expect it from are often all the more entertaining.

But I sound like an old fart. And as with most things, the ideal is probably in the ambiguous grey area in between. I just can't help thinking that I watch this game for all of its dimensions -- the "complete player" ideal -- and having a single-purpose enforcer betrays that just as much as if you dressed a guy strictly for his shootout moves.

As always, you may shoot me in comments...

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Talbot (non-fighter) fought (and lost) to Carcillo and that was a momentum changer. Neither are heavyweights, and I’m sure Talbot taking on a guy like Carcillo was more inspiring to his teammates than two big ol goons going at it.

The Avs haven’t had a big fighter, until this season, for years and played the Wild every season. They had a guy like Laperriere who was a middleweight who could fight, but PK and play too. I always felt when the avs and Wild lined up the avs started with the advantage because no Avs would fight Boogard, so they used that roster spot on someone who could play, giving the avs a 12 vs 11 advantage in forwards.

The 2009-10 Colorado Avalanche: Aiming for the Charity Point
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Oct 7, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I loved Laperriere (though I’m sure I will soon hate him this season). When the need for protection for Tavares & Co. was brought up this summer, he’s the guy I wanted. Crazy, fearless guy who can skate and PK, too? Sign me up.

That scenario you mentioned is one of the funnier ones: When one team dresses a pure goon and the other doesn’t, and he uses his 3 minutes TOI sort of wandering around looking for something, but nobody’s there to dance. Bonus points if he takes a bad penalty trying to get something going.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Oct 7, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

The thing about heavyweight goon fights is that they nearly always lack any sort of context with the game, like you said.

The fans get entertained by the fight in the same way they do watching boxing or MMA.

When a Talbot fights a Carcillo, that MEANS something in a way a Boogaard/Ivanans fight just never can. THAT’S the kind of fighting that fits into The Code. The rest is just meaningless buffoonery between guys paid to get punched.

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on Oct 7, 2009 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

The old Isles were fortunate to have players like Gillies, Nystrom, Howatt, and Lane who could both fight and play well but who focused on playing UNLESS the other side got out of line. Then they were quite ready to throw down if need be. If Chicago wants to dump and needs a tough defenseman and a goalie, send them Witter and Marty and a pick for Byfuglien, Hjalmarsson, and Brouwer. They might even keep Byfuglien and Brouwer as players to be named later until after the playoffs are over. And then see if we can collect enough draft picks to convince badly over cap Ottawa to trade A Train Anton Volcenkov to us. Then all we need is the #1 overall and Taylor Hall and we are set!

by BCISLEMAN on Oct 7, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions  

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Josh Bailey 12 LW 10/2/1989 190 6-1
Rick DiPietro 39 G 9/19/1981 190 6-1
Mark Eaton 4 D 5/6/1977 215 6-1
Michael Grabner 40 RW 10/5/1987 185 6-0
Travis Hamonic 3 D 8/16/1990 203 6-2
Milan Jurcina 27 D 6/7/1983 253 6-4
Andrew MacDonald 47 D 9/7/1986 196 6-1
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Al Montoya 35 G 2/13/1985 203 6-2
Mike Mottau 10 D 3/19/1978 190 6-0
Matt Moulson 26 LW 11/1/1983 205 6-1
Evgeni Nabokov 20 G 7/25/1975 200 6-0
Aaron Ness 55 D 5/18/1990 170 5-10
Nino Niederreiter 25 RW 9/8/1992 205 6-2
Frans Nielsen 51 C 4/24/1984 184 6-0
Kyle Okposo 21 RW 4/16/1988 205 6-0
Jay Pandolfo 29 LW 12/27/1974 190 6-1
P.A. Parenteau 15 LW 3/24/1983 193 6-0
Marty Reasoner 16 C 2/26/1977 205 6-1
Dylan Reese 42 D 8/29/1984 201 6-1
Brian Rolston 11 LW 2/21/1973 215 6-2
Steve Staios 24 D 7/28/1973 200 6-1
Mark Streit 2 D 12/11/1977 197 6-0
John Tavares 91 C 9/20/1990 202 6-0
Tim Wallace 36 RW 8/6/1984 207 6-1
Ty Wishart 6 D 5/19/1988 222 6-4
Calvin de Haan 44 D 5/9/1991 187 6-1

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