Islanders Gameday: Take #2 in Montreal
by Dominik on Oct 26, 2009 6:30 AM EDT
in New York Islanders Previews
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Print[Updated 12 noon with additional lineup info and thought fodder at the end.]
If the Islanders play like they did two nights ago against one of the league's best teams, the Canadiens could be ripe for the taking. The Habs are hot, of course -- they've won three straight after losing five straight. But they had to come back to beat the Rangers Saturday (thank you, but next time in regulation time please), and now brimming with confidence, they just might be looking ahead to a road trip with more daunting opponents Pittsburgh and Chicago this week. Plus a Halloween HNIC Saturday involving the Leafs -- who matter just a tad bit more to the Habs than the Islanders.
And, if we may be so bold, tonight the Canadiens ought to see a completely different opponent than the one they drubbed Thursday in a 5-1 cakewalk. Thus concludes the psycho-rationalizing section of today's game preview.
New York Islanders (1-4-4, 5th/Atl) at Montreal Canadiens (5-5-0, 4th/NE)
7:30 p.m. | Le [telefonica-like substance] Centre | MSG+, RDS, radio
Coverage of 9 more pts. than the Leafs: Eyes on the Prize | Habs Inside/Out | Four Habs Fans
I'm not going to dwell on the blown third-period lead thing, because Saturday's OT loss to the Caps was a different case. But Scott Gordon's quote on the topic was amusing, in a managed expectations sort of way:
"We certainly aren't a dynamic offensive team," coach Scott Gordon said. "It's probably going to happen to us more than we like. It has happened more than we liked. We're not happy about it."
The truth hurts.
- Meanwhile, one lineup definitive: Doug Weight will sit out his third consecutive game with flu-like symptoms. Despite my disgust after the Habs game, I prefer this move; I'm glad they're apparently not spreading a virus around the room.
- In goal, what do you say? It's Martin Biron's turn, dontchaknow. Still awaiting a performance by either of the platooners that makes a compelling statement for consecutive starts. (At the other end, it's Halak.)
- Despite their recent outburst of goals (five against each NY team), the Habs are still 22nd in goals per game at 2.60. Defensively, they've allowed 3.0 per game -- which ranks tied for 15th. Their ratio of 5-on-5 GF/GA at this early juncture is 0.75 -- not pretty by any means (24th), but still well above the Isles (0.50 for 27th).
More later today, but that'll do for a start to the day's hemming and hawing over what on earth to expect from this young, evolving team.
Update: Some more fun and fodder...
An Inconvenient Streak: With three points in his last three games, Andy Sutton is now fourth on the team in scoring, tied with Mark Streit. Fodder for his supporters, absurdly small sample for his detractors.
Speaking of Streit: Both he and Radek Martinek had weak games in Montreal. Marti bounced back in a big way against Washington, though, netting the goal and actually skating more minutes than Streit (24:56 vs. 22:30), a rarity in a game when Streit didn't lose any time to penalties.
No Platoon in Montreal: Jaroslav Halak gets his fourth consecutive start tonight.
Tambellini on the PP? That was the morning skate lineup, where Freddy Meyer is also still on the outside.
Are We Rebuilding or Are We Dancer? Larry "axes to grind everywhere" Brooks's column about this season: thoughts? I actually thought it was fair -- more fair than Chris Botta's mini-vent linking to and expanding on it. Chris vents about some things that I either have not seen or have not had passed on through PR channels. For example, I haven't heard the team continue to discredit last year's goalie tandem -- not since the beginning of the season -- but regardless, those goalies were (and are) sub-par. And more is and should be expected of the current underperforming tandem.
Standings-Gazing: Finally, just nine games in, the Atlantic Standings don't look so hot. But boy, did you expect it would be Philadelphia who's sitting in fourth? (I know, it's early, and the Rangers and Pens have each played two more games. Still.):
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ehhh...
The same guys who say “Oh, The Islanders can’t attract Free Agents” are the same ones who make jokes about Yashin. I don’t care what the Isles facility looks like, you offer enough money and the free agents will come. But outside of the Sedin Twins and Bouwmaster, who was out there that could help turn around a team quickly?
I think its been proven time and time again that you can’t turn around a team in a single season just by signing a bunch of vets. Actually, its usually the opposite and the team collapses.
They say Wang hasn’t done anything for the team, but from his first offseason he’s always opened his wallet for the team. But what did he get for it? 3 playoff teams, round 1 losses and anywhere between 11 and 14 Million in the negative. If they weren’t trying whatsoever, why spend 6 million on goalies in the offseason? I mean they could have just as easily gotten two struggling goalies for 500K each.
I remember the 90s ownership. Now I’m pissed that Wang’s threatening to move the team because it was one of the things he promised when he got the team to keep them here. But the 90s ownership flat out said that they traded players (Palffy, Linden) because they were too expensive. They decided that the Fishsticks Jersey was a good idea. At least they tried to re-sign Ryan Smyth not so long ago.
Ask Toronto what they think of MacDonald, they probably weren’t expecting him to start in the NHL. For that matter the Devils look like they are right back on track with their backups never getting a chance to play. There were plenty of games that Mac or Danis cost us. Roloson and Biron haven’t been good yet, but over time they should be a marked improvement.
Yes, and hell yes.
I just can’t fault Wang for being at the salary floor at this point. As you say, he did open his wallet in the beginning — his mistake was who he trusted to spend his money, but he tried that route. At this point, with all the uncertainty upon the team’s future … well, if it were my money I’d be waiting for a clear location future first, too. It’s what he does after Lighthouse approval that will tell me whether I should get my feathers out of sort.
Agree on the goalies, too. I thought Brooks’s piece was actually pretty tame — just saying they need to focus on progress this season (agreed) and not go over the top with politics in-game. At the same time though, to paraphrase Anchorman, the Lighthouse Project is kind of a big deal.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
this summer should see a change
most other teams will be cap crunched and we should have at least 1-2 really big pieces in our development puzzle from the draft. If the ToH doesn’t step up soon, Wang should move quickly to engage Queens so that there is something solid to point to when selling FAs this summer.
Are We Rebuilding or Are We Dancer? Larry “axes to grind everywhere” Brooks’s column about this season: thoughts? I actually thought it was fair — more fair than Chris Botta’s mini-vent linking to and expanding on it. Chris vents about some things that I either have not seen or have not had passed on through PR channels. For example, I haven’t heard the team continue to discredit last year’s goalie tandem — not since the beginning of the season — but regardless, those goalies were (and are) sub-par. And more is and should be expected of the current underperforming tandem.
Very well put, Dominik- like usual. :) That Botta rant had me scratching my head as well. The only thing I can conclude after reading it is that he is offering the people in his comments section exactly what they want. Honestly, as much as I have liked Bottas blog in the past, I no longer enjoy what his comments section has become: Constant, continuous whining!!! 90% of the comments are no longer interested in offering analysis or discussion, its just e-screaming about what they think “sucks.” and complaining about every single thing they can possibly imagine!
Looking forward to the games this week… and Im hoping that we see the team that played against the Caps more and more this season.
Lets go Islanders...
There's something about Botta's blog that has rubbed me the wrong way as well
I could never put my finger on it but perhaps you expressed what I was thinking better than I could.
If I recall from the offfseason everyone was screaming that we should sign Tanguay. That if we signed him we would have a legit team yadda, yadda, yadda. Same with a lot of those Defensmen that Toronto signed.
Thing is that we have more than enough playmakers. Tanguay is a playmaker not a finisher or natural goal scorer.
Signing a some of the D Toronto signed would have been nice but they don’t seem to be playing well.
The goal of a rebuild is not only to compile talent and develop it but to build a team that plays well together. Later on you fill in the gaps with UFA signings if the price it right. Snow promised no shortcuts and he’s sticking to that plan. He should be praised for it.
As far as this team not being that good and the guys we drafted taking time to develop. When I was a poster years ago at Islandermania I pointed out why a lot of those kids from the nineties were no longer here. Fact of the matter is, the fans lost patience with those kids and it’s not like the fans were after Milbury when he traded them away. Those moves, when you put them in their proper context (Considering what was happening at the time) were all praised by most of the fans.
In posting what I posted I clearly stated that the same fans calling for this team to be rebuilt from the ground up were gonna be the same fans that chase a lot of these kids out of here. I don’t recall anyone crying when McCabe, Chara and Jokinen were shown the door. Luongo, to many of us, looked like another Eric Fichaud or Milan Hlinika. Another over rated goal tender that could not control his own rebounds.
I wonder if what we are witnessing here is just the beginning of all that all over again. Like I said, when Milbury made many of those moves, he was praised for it. I even recall talking to a few fans that wanted Kenny Jonnson out the door with Chara.
by Chickendirt on Oct 26, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if what we are witnessing here is just the beginning of all that all over again.
God I hope not. I have sometimes thought to myself: “Starting over is easy, the decisions are obvious. It’s having patience to see the rebuild through that’s the tough part.” It sounds like Snow was ticked off about mistakes made in the past, so hopefully he’s committed to seeing things through. He’s certainly shown patience with the prospects thus far.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
u make a point, but most of the players you mention were never allowed to develop on the isle, it was produce, or we’ll trade you… and a lot of the trades he did make are so famously bad, he continually gets the knuckle to the ribs from pierre mcquire on nbc hockey sundays
only reason CW spent any money during that period — my opinion completely of course — is that he was able to CONVINCE cw that he was going to be able to make a winner if he had enough $, he is and always WAS a con-man, as evidenced by his ability to secure work in the mainstream hockey world to this day instead of running a peewee team in moosejaw or something
he was a trend follower, not setter, even though he desperately wanted to be, hence, trading a goalie on draft day, in order to be the first ever to draft a goalie #1 overall… btw anyone else notice which draft henrik lundqvist was in??? but we’ll take the goalie, let heatly and gaborik go because laffi daffi raffi torres will still be there and we all know he’s the best player in the draft, lol
and for the record, jokinen was a big part of the palfy deal, which hurt a lot of fans, so after giving him a whole entire 1 year, he dumped him and luongo for parrish and kvasha
to be fair tho he got blake for a song, but overall, the isles were about HIM and how well does that work out for most teams (TORONTO???)
I always thought Milbury was stuck in another era....
I recall Arbour retiring because he felt a lot of the younger players required a lot more coddeling than they did when he was a coach and player in this league. Something that he was not accustomed to so he did the right thing and got out of the game at the right time.
Milbury was somewhat of that mindset as well. When he was coming up in this league they really didn’t give you three years at the NHL level to prove what you could do. Of course the draft in the first round was about 24 teams deep as well. So the talent you got in the first and the second was much better than it is today. We have guys getting starts in the league that probably would have struggled to crack a minor league lineup when Milbury and Arbour were relevant.
I don’t think we got a good glimpse of Milbury as GM in the nineties because of the ownership fiascos. One thing that I think he got right was questioning the heart of some of those players he got rid of. I’m surprised no one is questioning Chara and the Bruins playoff collapse last season. Didn’t we witness much of the same thing when Chara was a big piece of Ottawa?
Not to mention that Luongo has been in this league for about eleven years and has two post season berths to go along with it. This last one featured a complete collapse by him in an elimination game. Not to mention the year before he completely fell apart down the stretch.
Jokinen’s career has been plagued with run ins with coaches and often critisized for taking a night off. He had an issue getting into Goring’s dog house as well .
Looking at it realisticly. Would the Isles have been a good team if we kept those guys? Yeah.
Cup contenders? Doubt it.
Heart
But Milbury DRAFTED Chara, Luongo, and traded for Jokinen.
Plus his horrible drafting from the 3rd round on, its a question of his scouting, who he hires as scout, or who he let draft.
Also he always bashed European players ala Don Cherry. Yet during his time as GM he drafted around 50 or 60 European players of which 40 something never even stepped foot on ice in North America.
can't speak for others, but...
I never thought that they should have traded Luongo or Jokinnen and I always had my doubts about getting Yashin.
It is hard to know where the road not taken would have led. For instance, if we had kept Luongo, it is safe to assume that we would have picked either Heatley or Gaborik in 2000. If we had drafted Heatley, would we then have made the trade Atlanta did with Heatley that brought them Marian Hossa? Or another comparable player?
Obviously if we had kept a lot of these players, we would have been a better team. Would we have become a champion? No way to know. Being a champion is about so much more than just talent. It is about courage, passion, desire, discipline, hard work. As I mention in another fanpost, Espo claimed that he, Orr, and the rest of the Bruins could have won a bunch of Cups (obviously trying to say we were as good as the Islanders). He was half right. They were probably as talented as the Isles, but they lacked those other qualities that are so essential to being a champion.
From a management standpoint, you cannot control those things—although you can help them along by the players and coaches you select as Bowtie Bill did. But you can display common sense and patience—which Bill did and Mad Mike did not. No matter how you slice it, drafting a goalie with the 4th overall and then trading him two years later is INSANE. You need patience and common sense as well as good scouting to succeed as an NHL GM. I am content with what Garth and Ryan have done to date.
re: comments
no longer interested in offering analysis or discussion, its just e-screaming about what they think "sucks."
That’s a shame, but I guess an inevitable problem at high-traffic sites with open, anonymous comment capability. A hard beast to manage.
Honestly, the main reason I moved to SBN was the commenting tools. You can still be anonymous (“Honestly, boss, TrotsRulz ain’t me”) but the profiles, comment history, rec’ function, FanPost stuff — all just feeds a mini-community and allows a little more leeway when someone wants to write an essay, plus it enables people to police each other and trolls can still be dealt with pretty swiftly. Sort of blog/message board hybrid.
{sniff, sniff} Just wanted a place where reasonable people can debate hockey in a coherent manner, and be allowed to write more than 100 words. Who knows where it will go, but … well, you all rule.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
Although it is sort of depressing when I go check out the other teams open game thread and they are at 500 something comments and we’re floating around 59.
Heh, yes. I’m told they all start that way as things slowly build. (Last October I’d have killed for 59 that weren’t my own.)
I haven’t been as diligent as I should be about promoting the site, part out of fear, part laziness, and part just a preference for organic growth.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
In goal, what do you say? It's Martin Biron's turn, dontchaknow.
getting sick of this, pick a guy, give him 3-4 or 4-5 games to see if he can string some success (pref roloson – since he moves the puck a little)
i’m always eager to watch the games, sent my familiar text to a fellow fan friend “they are looking pretty good so far” 1/2 way thru the 3rd — even knowing what may, could, most likely would, happen… i think that is part of it, over-effort, instead of thinking, they panic, and get out of position, hurry a puck weakly up the boards, or try to force a bad pass, or stickhandle at that wrong time…
i think that is part of it, over-effort, instead of thinking, they panic, and get out of position, hurry a puck weakly up the boards, or try to force a bad pass,
You can see it happen even before they give up the first goal. But hopefully it’s an inexperience thing that can be overcome.
Do us a favor: Don’t text your friend tonight, okay? ;)
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
haha, i texted him BECAUSE i was trying to change it up… and you’re right, u do see it coming on before it happens —
not tonight though, i think we actually come from behind and leave the habs fans mumbling to themselves as leave the rink
A perfect night in Montreal is when you get the fans to turn on the team. Then you know something’s gone right.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
You mean like Obyrne scoring on his own team
I have to admit though, I felt really bad for the guy. I think that killed any joy I felt off of the win.
Yeah, that was vicious. I felt bad for him, too.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
