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Chain Reaction: How do the Islanders make less of a 5-on-5 mess?

Given some recent discussions here, I was going to try to tackle the Islanders defense today -- to try to decipher which under-performing blueliners are hopeless and which are a victim of circumstance but still have something to offer in the right situation. Given all the injuries and lineup inconsistency last year, though, I think we need to wait for some more data from this year.

That's one of the fun things about this game: So many moving parts, that stats -- even advanced stats -- only give us a hint of what's going on until after a lot of it's already happened. There are multiple chicken-or-egg scenarios, such as how someone's traditional offense or defense is altered by the effects of backchecking forwards and pinching defensemen. (And at this early stage, injuries, illness, luck and a fight with the girlfriend easily skew things.)

Mark Streit (or even more so, Chris Pronger) can make any pedestrian defensive partner look solid. That can change their rate stats, which can lead you to think they're something they're not. For example Andy Sutton, viewed by several fans to have been good in his brief between-injury moments last year, also benefited from being paired largely with Streit at that time, giving him the best quality of teammate rating [explanation here] on the team.

Which isn't to say he is useless. If a defenseman plays ably next to Streit, whether he's Sutton or Bruno Gervais (salary concerns aside), he's doing his job. The key is to find blueliners who can anchor other pairings -- or absent any non-Streit anchors, blueline pairings that are at least good enough to get by. As I whined all summer long, I don't think the Isles have that, and I hope Garth Snow doesn't either and is instead just playing out the existing contracts.

That's my blueline spiel for now. But I mention it here because that domino effect of receding talent is also what's ailing the Islanders forward corps: There are too many guys who need an anchor (i.e. Kyle Okposo or John Tavares) to be effective, and it's not even clear which ones are best at being that supporting part.

Star-divide

Early season results don't say much:


GP G A P +/- PIM PPPts ESPts TOI EStoi SOG PCT
2009 - Sean Bergenheim 8 0 0 0 -5 4 0 0 14:23 12:15 15 0.0
2009 - Josh Bailey 8 1 1 2 -1 0 0 1 15:27 11:43 8 12.5
2009 - Blake Comeau 7 0 2 2 -1 4 0 2 16:17 13:14 11 0.0
2009 - Rob Schremp 6 0 1 1 -3 4 1 0 12:56 10:48 12 0.0
2009 - Jon Sim 6 1 0 1 -5 0 1 0 14:36 11:26 8 12.5

Before damning these players for their inability to score, first consider the powerplay: This team is powerplay-dependent, but it's not going to get ample powerplay opportunities unless its 5-on-5 play presses the other team into taking penalties. I'd love for Sean Bergenheim or Blake Comeau or Jeff Tambellini or Rob Schremp to score, but they don't seem much capable of that 5-on-5, and they're not (outside of Schremp) getting PP time. So in that sense, the zeros in their stats columns aren't the end of the world.

[Four of Matt Moulson's eight points have been at even strength. Three of Kyle Okposo's six have. Only two of John Tavares's seven have been. No other forward has more than two points. That's what we're dealing with.]

If You're Not A Sniper, At Least Be a Pain

So Comeau, Bergenheim and friends haven't scored. But you might say at least Bergenheim has drawn four penalties (and taken two). That's a better differential than anyone other than Okposo (1 taken, 6 drawn).

Again, it's early, and refs make mistakes. But you might note that last year, despite the occasional dumb penalty taken, Bergenheim drew 20 and took 13, putting him in Okposo territory (20 taken, 11 drawn). Look at the whole list, and you see Frans Nielsen drew 18 while taking just 6 -- I'm telling you, that Dane has hockey sense -- while Blake Comeau was even at 8-8.

Now, last night in Montreal was a disastrous display of poor passing, poor breakouts, poor clearances, poor decisions, and poor penalties. You have to grant that they won't be that bad all the time. Throw it out.

Press, Trap or Die Trying

But what's the key to stealing wins here and there to make this year interesting? Smart, assertive play at 5-on-5. Once again, the Islanders are near the bottom at 5-on-5 goals for/goals against. At .50, they're better than only Minnesota and Florida, and even with Toronto.

If they're not going to be a scoring threat beyond Moulson/Tavares/Okposo -- and maybe Nielsen's return to health alters that a bit -- then they need to at least be difficult to play against. They need to force mistakes, they need to be annoying, they need to force the other team to put Tavares, Moulson, Okposo, Streit and Doug Weight out there 5-on-4.

And of course, they need the goalies to step up to cover the rest.

But oh, the domino of variables: Goalies can't cover if you're always under siege. Forwards can't score if the defense can't get the puck out nor feed it to them in stride. The defense can't get the puck out if the forwards aren't capable of helping. Forwards can't force penalties at 5-on-5 if they're, by and large, just not that good. Around and around it goes when you lack the overall talent to beat better teams.

The alternative is to ask Scott Gordon to be someone he's not. To ask him to go all Lemaire with this team and defend their way to a few more wins. If this were 2002, I'd say sure! Playoffs or bust!!!1

But two summers ago, this franchise finally made the decision to blow things up and start over. If there's any time to see an experiment through, it's now. If there's any hope for long-term success, they need to stick with a plan rather than Lemaire their way to a 10th-place spot in the East. I'd rather Gordon keep pushing his aggressive system -- which many players have said is hardly unique -- to make sure the kids who will be here for years are well-versed in it, while weeding out the riff-raff who are not long for this place.

It's painful. It's often not pretty (boy though, when it clicks on the good nights, it's a joy). But it's a rebuild. Given available resources and the short-sighted decisions of the past, it's the only way I see forward.

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Defense we need sizes. Meyer 5.10 Hillen 5.11. It’s a joke

by odelixx on Oct 23, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I’d definitely like more size — it’s a big deficiency — but if we had guys who could move the puck and clear it with discipline, that wouldn’t be so glaring. Size isn’t quite as imoprtant as it once was, which I think is why Witt and Sutton’s size is less useful than it once was.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Oct 23, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was down on our D last night, but its not as though our goalies are bailing us out. The reasoning behind two starting goalies (beside trade bait) is that one of them should get going. Instead this is what we’ve gotten

Roloson 4GP 3.48 GAA .893 SV%
Biron 5GP 3.57 GAA .889 SV%

Not only is that some pretty bad numbers, but its some of their worst numbers of their careers. Biron has never been sub .900 SV% and the only time he was above 3 GAA was the season he was traded. Roloson has never been above a 3 GAA, and hasn’t been sub .900 SV% since before 2001.

To make matters worse, career AHL’ers MacDonald and Danis had better numbers through the season last year.

Danis 31 GP 2.86 GAA .910 SV%
MacDonald 49 GP 3.37 .901 SV%

Obviously the hope is that over more games Roloson and Biron will pick up their game. But this isn’t an especially good start for either of them so far.

Hopefully next season De Haan is ready for the NHL, so with Streit on the first pairing, De Haan on the 2nd, only the 3rd pairing will scare us.

by Mark D on Oct 23, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions  

To make matters worse, career AHL’ers MacDonald and Danis had better numbers through the season last year.

Nice.

Yeah, I came into the season expecting one of the goalies to bail them out and get on a run. I’m still hoping for that, but it hasn’t happened yet. If they’d get two phases of the game going (goaltending/defense/offense), they might help carry the other.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Oct 23, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Will Hamonic and Niemi be ready next year?

They are both physical AND have some offensive upside. I am ssuming that we will get at least one maybe two good younger defensive vets this summer. Boynton might be one. Roly had a slow start, but he was good in the win. He’ll come around and hopefully so will Marty.

by BCISLEMAN on Oct 23, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not only is that some pretty bad numbers, but its some of their worst numbers of their careers. Biron has never been sub .900 SV% and the only time he was above 3 GAA was the season he was traded. Roloson has never been above a 3 GAA, and hasn’t been sub .900 SV% since before 2001.

Doesn’t this paragraph show that their performance is based on the team in front of them?

But oh, the domino of variables: Goalies can’t cover if you’re always under siege. Forwards can’t score if the defense can’t get the puck out nor feed it to them in stride. The defense can’t get the puck out if the forwards aren’t capable of helping. Forwards can’t force penalties at 5-on-5 if they’re, by and large, just not that good. Around and around it goes when you lack the overall talent to beat better teams.

Probably the best analysis right here. You’re right on the money while most “Experts” we see and hear on the airwaves are without a clue.

"I'm gonna hire you as my latex salesman? I don't think so. Why would I do that?"
"Vandelay! Say Vandelay Industries!"
"And you wanna be my latex salesman?"

by Urban Sombrero on Oct 24, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I see I owe you...

…a “welcome and thanks for joining.” Nice sombrero you got there.

With the goalies, I think it’s team-dependent to a degree, but their save percentage should still be closer to their norm. Each of them have given up a healthy handful of goals that weren’t the D-men’s fault. I think the only blameless game was Boston, where it would have been nice if Roloson sealed the deal, but I’m pretty sure he was screened on all three by panicking players in front of him.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Oct 24, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks

Luckily, I get NESN here in CT and I can watch a winning team, the Bruins, to fill my hockey watching needs. As an Islander’s fan, it’s always wise to have another team to follow for the sake of sanity. Looks like another season to not put too much stock in how the Isles do.

I’m really happy that Tavares looks like he fits in in the league and is doing quite well. I like both goalies and I’m sure one of them will pick up their game.

However, third period collapses date back to when Dipietro was healthy. I remember him having to almost single handedly win games because the team around him was as scared as mice in the third period. This problem has carried through during last season with two other goalies and now two totally different goalies. So, I find it unlikely that goaltending is the cause. To ask your goaltender to repeatedly make game saving stops in short succession will equal losses. Especially, when the scoring chances become drastically more abundant the longer the game goes on. Teams win because of puck possession, scoring chances for and limiting scoring chances against. The Islanders need to learn how to play with the lead late in the game. In the shootout win game against Carolina, the Islanders couldn’t give the puck back to the Hurricanes fast enough in the third period. It was painful to watch the defense and forwards completely forget how to control the puck on their sticks and get out of their own zone.

Basically, I don’t expect too much from this team this year. If they overachieve, it will be a pleasant surprise. If they can learn how to finish games, they might win more than they are expected to.

"I'm gonna hire you as my latex salesman? I don't think so. Why would I do that?"
"Vandelay! Say Vandelay Industries!"
"And you wanna be my latex salesman?"

by Urban Sombrero on Oct 24, 2009 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

As an Islander’s fan, it’s always wise to have another team to follow for the sake of sanity.

Too true, that.

Good point on 3rd periods collapses even back with DiPietro. I suppose it ultimately comes back to talent/depth (or lack thereof), which makes it tough to withstand a better team’s final push when the game is on the line. What’s upset me is how rattled they look when the first goal is scored. Three-goal leads, two-goal leads — instead of tightening up when the first insurance goal disappears, they seem to fall into panic.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Oct 24, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

We aren’t talking about a Clemmensen type who has one season in front of a good team when it comes to stats. We’re talking about two vets who have played for multiple teams over the last decade. At least when it comes to Biron, the Flyers Dmen since Hatcher got injured a few seasons ago have been nothing to write home about.

Yes, the defense has been bad, but they have both given up surprisingly soft goals so far this season. Most likely they will return to their career averages or close to it during the next month. But if they continue to struggle, not only do they hurt us this season, but it hurts us in trade possibilities.

by Mark D on Oct 24, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

This isn’t the first slow start Roloson has shown in recent seasons. In 07-08 his confidence was shaken enough that he lost the starting job to Garon, of all people. Granted, it was a career season for Matty (or close to it), but it’s a bit of a blemish. Luckily Roli is a really competitive guy and he’s been through this before. He’ll recover from this start and probably more quickly than he did in 08.

by zytsef on Oct 24, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we recall Al Arbour’s philosophy. If you can’t play defense you won’t play, no matter how much you can score. He was all over Bossy in practice. I think the problem is that so much has been put on lack of scoring that defense has taken a back seat. Goaltenders are only effective if the defense in front of them is solid. Not every one can be Brodeur. Defense means forwards getting back into the defensive zone. You can’t put it all on the defensive blueliners. Gordon should look to stress defense and the offense will take care of itself.

by frankd1945 on Oct 23, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I will rec’ any positive comment referencing Al Arbour; that’s just the policy here. :)

I’m by no means certain on this, but I think the emphasis on offense was a bigger issue in last year’s first half (too much pinching, leading to too many odd-man rushes). But last night at least it just seemed like they couldn’t clear the puck and couldn’t make an intelligent outlet pass. I agree it’s not all on the defensemen, but I think the forwards are less of an issue defensively than the blueline is. (Again, I should probably throw last night out, since everyone pretty much looked awful, and that has a contagious, amplifying effect.)

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Oct 23, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

several good points here. This team cannot afford sub par goaltending, which is what they have gotten so far. Size on defense, if you don’t have size you need to offset with good positional play and slick breakout passing, last night I saw neither. I have seen decent positional play this year, but the breakout so far leaves a lot to be desired. Still early thank god.

by 7:11_OT on Oct 23, 2009 3:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Haha

Alright, now what’s Plan B?

I couldn’t fit, “Since We’re Not Getting Better Players Any Time Soon” into the beginning of the headline, although I did consider it.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Oct 23, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Err. In case of emergency, see Plan A.

Seriously, though, the Islanders are very bad. It will take quite a while to remedy the damage done by over a decade of mismanagement.

For my money, I’d like to see far, far less (if any) of the following: Jon Sim, Nate Thompson, Rechlicz, and Richard Park. Park is a waste of space on this team. He’s a known quantity and not part of the future. If they can get any serviceable piece in return, I’d ship him out sooner rather than later. I’d rather see what Schremp and Tambellini can do. If you’re going to finish 30th, I strongly believe you should do so with style.

As for defense . . . ugh. It is disgraceful how bad the Islanders are at getting the puck out of their own end. Don’t even get me started on Hall-of-Famer Andy Sutton. Not much can be done back there for now, sadly. Hopefully one or two or the Isles’ allegedly puck-moving prospects had better pan out, otherwise we’re in for a world of fail. I don’t necessarily need offense from the blue line, but clear the goddamn puck.

by AP77 on Oct 23, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also

This is classic:

http://illegalcurve.com/2009/10/23/who-do-the-real-experts-think-will-win-the-stanley-cup-part-ii/

The Islanders (rightfully) occupy their own tier. We really do define fail. When people get on me about being a Yankees fan, my ultimate trump card is that I’ve also been a lifelong Islanders fan.

by AP77 on Oct 23, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Though they have their own tier, they have been considerably better than the Maple Leafs this year.

Talk about splicing narrow degrees of ineptitude.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Oct 23, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

better players are here and getting better and more are coming

We are building a talent core on offense with JT, Kyle, Josh, Frans, Hunts and now Matt Moulson. We still need to see what potential players like Joensuu and Figren have. We have Streit on D who is great and Gervais and Hillen who are OK. We have talented blueline prospects in De Haan, Hamonic, Ness, and Niemi. No matter what happens with DP, we will be solid in goal for years to come with Koskinnen and Nilsson.

We will get one NHL-ready elite player and a number of good prospects out of this draft. With the cap crunch, trades and FA should net us 1-2 quality defenders and 1-2 quality forwards.

When you add up what we have and are developing and what we will get this summer, we should have a pretty decent core in place by next September. Read Devellano’s book The Road to Hockeytown. It took him from 1982 to 1998 to win a Cup with Detroit after he left the Island. He stresses it and it’s true: to win a Cup, you need TONS and TONS of PATIENCE. In a few years, we should be legit contenders.

by BCISLEMAN on Oct 23, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d rather see what Schremp and Tambellini can do. If you’re going to finish 30th, I strongly believe you should do so with style.

So… that game in Montreal was stylish. Please keep your style away from my hockey.

by zytsef on Oct 24, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

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GP W L OTL PT
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(updated 2.15.2012 at 3:50 AM EST)

New York Islanders Roster

# Pos. DOB W H
Josh Bailey 12 LW 10/2/1989 190 6-1
Rick DiPietro 39 G 9/19/1981 190 6-1
Mark Eaton 4 D 5/6/1977 215 6-1
Michael Grabner 40 RW 10/5/1987 185 6-0
Travis Hamonic 3 D 8/16/1990 203 6-2
Milan Jurcina 27 D 6/7/1983 253 6-4
Andrew MacDonald 47 D 9/7/1986 196 6-1
Matt Martin 17 LW 3/8/1989 210 6-3
Al Montoya 35 G 2/13/1985 203 6-2
Mike Mottau 10 D 3/19/1978 190 6-0
Matt Moulson 26 LW 11/1/1983 205 6-1
Evgeni Nabokov 20 G 7/25/1975 200 6-0
Aaron Ness 55 D 5/18/1990 170 5-10
Nino Niederreiter 25 RW 9/8/1992 205 6-2
Frans Nielsen 51 C 4/24/1984 184 6-0
Kyle Okposo 21 RW 4/16/1988 205 6-0
Jay Pandolfo 29 LW 12/27/1974 190 6-1
P.A. Parenteau 15 LW 3/24/1983 193 6-0
Marty Reasoner 16 C 2/26/1977 205 6-1
Dylan Reese 42 D 8/29/1984 201 6-1
Brian Rolston 11 LW 2/21/1973 215 6-2
Steve Staios 24 D 7/28/1973 200 6-1
Mark Streit 2 D 12/11/1977 197 6-0
John Tavares 91 C 9/20/1990 202 6-0
Tim Wallace 36 RW 8/6/1984 207 6-1
Ty Wishart 6 D 5/19/1988 222 6-4
Calvin de Haan 44 D 5/9/1991 187 6-1

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