Islanders Links: Loss hangover edition
by Dominik on Oct 18, 2009 2:22 PM EDT
in Blade Splinters
22 comments
I'm traveling this weekend -- this morning I woke up, landed in a new city, changed my perspective ... but the Islanders had still lost last night. Blah.
- Newsy Recaps: Newsday and the Post with pretty much the same quotes. The Gordon comments about Isles players mistakenly thinking they're an explosive offensive team give food for thought. That's what's eating lines #2 through 4?
- During his live blog, Mike at Islesblogger reported the best part of the game: "The Sens fans in attendance have thrown their Heatley garb on the ice." Nice.
Meanwhile...
- Islanders 2015: For other hockey fans or anyone who hasn't seen it: A very thorough Newsday round-up of where potential relocation options stand if the Lighthouse Project falls through. Baumbach also confirmed through "sources" that there would be an additional fee to move closer to Rangers land, home of the Short Island Smurfs. Speaking of which: More overt campaigning from the Queens Chamber of Commerce.
- Several league updates from Pierre LeBrun, including Ilya Kovalchuk getting close to a decision on his Thrashers future, and more of the same within the NHLPA.
- The Ducks were trounced 5-0 at home by the Blues last night, and Behind The Net takes a look at their defense in the post-Pronger era.
- Also if you missed it: Gordon addressed Rechlicz's poor penalty in the Buffalo game.
- From the News of the Obvious Department: Shock! Doug Weight might not still be an Islander in March. Now that is how you turn a Mark Messier junket quote into a story about Weight that is old news, but will not be relevant until 50 games from now. This 0-3-3 start has nothing to do with Weight's location in March.
- Finally, you think you got problems? Lotsa teams got problems. Rebuilding is hard, and the bipolar performance of second-tier prospects is enough to drive you from cloudy hope to the gutter of despair in the span of five minutes. WIth that in mind, Oilers blog Lowetide points out that Ales Hemsky is not a second-tier player, so calls to trade him are insane.
Patience: Turns out it's actually quite hard to maintain.
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Not sure about the "sources" verdict
From what I’ve been reading, it is far less clear that the Isles would owe the Rangers anything…especially if the move is to Queens. There would probably be some dickering about this, but in the end I am sure that an agreement would be reached that would pose no problem for Wang if, as I ecpect, they make the move to the CitiField location.
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 18, 2009 3:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about Huet, Dom?
If you’ve been reading my fanshots, they are about ready to run Cristobal out of town on a rail in Chi-town. His latest debacle? He let in two incredibly soft goals costing the Hawks a 4-3 first of the season home loss. Hawks’ Trib blogger Steve Rosenbloom has been all over Huet, talking about getting him a plane ticket out of town and a DNR holiday card!!! Rosenbloom pointedly said that the Bowman braintrust was even now thinking about which scoring forward they would trade for a goaltender.
My thoughts? If, hopefully Roly and / or Marty’s games pick up—as I am sure they will—package one of them along with Dougie or maybe Andy for Buff Daddy. A trade to coincide with their March 2 trip to Uniondale would seem to make sense.
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 18, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do the Isles really need Huet though? To me, he doesn’t seem like he would be that big of an improvement over Biron, whom I view as the Islanders #1 goalie right now.
I just think the Isles have far greater concerns right now as a whole.
Just my thoughts though…
by Cal_IslandersFan on Oct 18, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say we should get Huet
i have previously hinted at that in comments, but I have reevaluated based on what I am reading in the Chicago media. They are talking about passing Huet through waivers and sending him down to their AHL affialiate. Let them.
Biron is just an insurance policy, nothing more. That is why he was signed to a one year deal. We have one goalie who is 41, another who is among the walking wounded and may or may not ever play again, and another who may or may not be NHL-ready. By deadline time, however, I expect a very different picture. DP may or may not be playing by then, but, even if he isn’t, Mikko should be able to at least serve as a reasonable backup and several of our Bridgeport guys looked good as well. By deadline time, Biron will be expendable.
The idea of the trade is to get Byfuglien. Check his stats. Moulson is the only guy on our roster with as many goals as Buff Daddy and NOBODY on our roster can match his 250+ lb 6’3" physical presence. With him on our second line alongside Bailey and whoever Gordon wants to fill the 2nd line LW, we have a VERY credible 2nd line even BEFORE we get Hall or Kabanov in the draft. Also, with him on the roster, we don’t need to worry about bringing up Wrecker and can focus on skilled player development. Maybe Wrecker will be motivated to develop his skills so that he can become a legit fourth liner. And I do not think that we have at all greater concerns than those.
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 18, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Huet? I’ve been reading the Fanshots, but there’s just too many variables between now and then for me to worry about Chicago. They may be one of the teams who needs a goalie in March, and we may have one who is attractive, but we’ll see.
Byfuglien has 4 goals and 6 points in 8 games. Biron and Roloson have zero wins. At this point, if Bowman made that trade, he should be shot. If either goalie builds a case between now and then, and Byfuglien falters, then maybe I can imagine those players being involved. There’s just way too many games to play before then for me to start dreaming, though.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Oct 20, 2009 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s how I see it. No, they shouldn’t trade for ANYBODY now. They should give Huet a few months to see if he can get it together and in the meantime play Niemi a little more than they had planned. If it gets to be January though and he’s still playing the way he is now or even is he’s just average, I think they have to do something.
The problem for Huet is that if they do not purge his cap hit through waivers, they will surely have to let one and maybe even two of their better roster players go this summer. He has to not only not stink—which he did consistently in the playoffs and in pretty much every game this year. He has to play so well that they just cannot imagine going into the playoffs without him. Otherwise it makes sense for them to purge his cap hit and consider alternatives.
They could go with Niemi and just have the other kid back him up, but that seems risky for a team that has pretensions of winning the Cup. Their other two options are (1) to get a UFA like Marty and only owe a pick or (2) get Roly who is, I think, the only vet available who has ever shown himself to be a money guy in the playoffs—other than Hiller and Giguere and no way is Anaheim trading either of them to Chicago who they may face in the playoffs.
As I see it, it will depend on Chicago’s cap situation. If they do not need to dump salary to take on Roly at $2.5 mil, Garth would probably settle for Jack Skille and a pick for Roly and maybe Weight or Park. If Chicago needs to send salary back, then its Buff or Versteeg most likely and Versteeg sounds too much like a lot of the forwards we have already. We don’t need another playmaker, we need a finisher. Skille would be OK…certainly an upgrade over most of what we have. But obviously Buff would be better.
Here’s another link. I like the guy using Cartesian logic to prove Huet will never cut it. I suspect that he will not in any event and I believe that Roly’s game will turn around. Skille or Buff, whattya think?
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 20, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Huet won’t cut it, and they’ll have to do something (unless Niemi gets on a really, really nice run by March). This may be the best vindication of anything Gainey has done the last few years, considering he gave up on Huet when everyone thought the Habs needed him.
I’d prefer Byfuglien over Skille, but what I don’t believe is that Byfuglien will come in a deal for an Islanders goalie. The circumstances for that are so narrow: The Hawks must be desperate, it must be getting to the final ticks at the deadline, and they must have zero equal options on the market elsewhere. I don’t see other options now on the market, but that’s because I don’t know what unpredictable situations will arise by then (e.g. What if the Oilers are out of it — again — and are willing to send Khabibulin back while helping with cap relief ? Would the Hawks prefer Khabi or Roli? I’d say Roli.)
At the beginning of the year, nearly everyone thinks they have a chance, so everyone turns to an also-ran like the Islanders to predict such scenarios. But in February or March, the situation will be clearer, there will be more teams ready to sell, and Bowman may have more options, so he won’t have quite the same gun to his head.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Oct 20, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You lost me. How will the Oilers sending them Khabi help with cap relief?
I don’t know whether there are other goalies of Marty’s calibre who are UFAs. Apart from Giguere, there are NO goalies conceivably available who have carried their teams to a Cup Final. There is no other team with the cap room and absolute need of talented forwards that the Isles have.
It is hard to imagine this shaking out any other way. Unless Huet turns into Hasek on roids, we will likely have some sort of deal with the Hawks for a goalie. And, while Buff would be perfect, I would be quite happy with Skille. 6’1", 215 tough as nails, garbage goal guy—perfect RW for Hall and Bailey.
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 21, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How will the Oilers sending them Khabi help with cap relief?
I meant that cap relief would be an additional part of the deal (i.e. take a forward or two, even take Huet, etc. — it all depends on the options. Chicago would have re-signed Khabi this summer if they could have offloaded Huet).
This summer, there were more goalies than jobs, which landed Biron in the discount bin. I can imagine this working out many different ways. A Cup final-experienced goalie is nice, but not a necessary part of the equation, particularly when one has passed age 40 and the other had a miserable year last season.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Oct 21, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t imagine the Oilers taking Huet for Khabi without a really strong incentive like one of their prime forwards and HB has the Oilers right at the cap limit themselves. And why do the Hawks trade 1-2 forwards for Khabi who costs more money assuming they agree with us that Roly would be preferable and not be willing to trade even one of those forwards to us for Roly at less money and maybe with Dougie thrown into the bargain?
To me if you are serious about going for the Cup and you are entering the tourney with a rookie goalie who has never been there before, having a goalie behind him who has taken his team to the Finals is more than nice…it is VERY desirable. Obviously the best case scenario for Chicago—unless Huet becomes Billy Smith in the next two months—is for the Hawks to solve their cap problems by washing out Huet’s cap hit to the point that they are not worried about losing anyone. Then they can move Skille and a pick for Roly and Dougie.
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 21, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not agree that Khabibulin is necessarily preferable to Roloson, right now, nor behind the Blackhawks during a playoff run. Salary-wise, yes, but it’s not March yet.
I don’t see a return of Khabi as likely (it would necessitate burying Huet somewhere, though Chicago could afford to demote him to the AHL if it came to that). But I point it out as one of many possible scenarios — all of which have a lot of moving variables between now and then. The Biron/Roloson-for-Byfuglien/Skille dream you keep hammering is hardly the only possible outcome, particularly since you agree the Hawks shouldn’t trade anyone now.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Oct 21, 2009 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The most likely
Of course, the Hawks could say “Damn the torpedoes!” and either stay with Huet or go with Niemi and Crawford. But Scotty Bowman is as smart a mind as there is. He’s gotta see the value in gettin the only proven championship goalie available to back up Niemi for a Cup run. So unless Huet transforms into Super Mutant Ninja Goalie-Man in the next few months, I expect Bowman will come calling. Garth may resist because he has planned on keeping Roly to mentor Mikko and this may work to our advantage by driving up the price. In the end, unless Garth refuses, this seems most likely.
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 21, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Chicago would be more willing to move Skille. He’s back down on Rockford more permanently now that the Hawks have Ebbett on their roster. I don’t know their prospects too well, so I wouldn’t be able to compare him to Byfuglien, but in this hypothetical trade I think the Hawks are more worried about winning the cup this season. Byfuglien is a proven NHL player; Skille is stuck in the minors due to cap concerns, but you’d think if they really had confidence in him they’d find a way to move some bodies so the kid could stick.
Really hard to say how the decision would go in Chicago, like Dominik says. I agree that the Huet contract is ridiculous, but I don’t think he can’t provide near value for it. He was phenomenal after he was traded to the Caps. Really made it seem like Gainey had made a huge mistake. If he can reproduce that kind of performance I don’t think the Hawks can trade him.
Goalies are so unpredictable, it’s hard to say that Roli would be better in the playoffs than Huet. Before that glorious run in 06 Roli was about as proven a playoff performer as Huet is now. I think when they’re both on top of their games they’re pretty comparable. Huet is currently getting paid like he can bring that every game.
by zytsef on Oct 21, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goalies are so unpredictable, it’s hard to say that Roli would be better in the playoffs than Huet. Before that glorious run in 06 Roli was about as proven a playoff performer as Huet is now.
Hear hear. The “playoff goalie” label is thrown around far too easily based on far too small samples.
To take an extreme example, Patrick Roy had his share of very un-playoff-goalie-like years. At the other end, injuries aside, what if Kari Lehtonen is available? He sure had a helluva playoff year in 2005.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Oct 21, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What playoff year?
Kari Lehtonen plays for the Thrashers and the only playoff berth they have had in recent memory was a first round sweep at the hands of the Rangers. And wasn’t ‘05 the lockout year? Aside from that, if the Thrashers keep playing as they have been, he won’t be available anyway.
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 21, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2005 Playoffs. AHL.
Lehtonen, Chicago Wolves: 10-6, 1.71 GAA, .939 sv%.
Not too shabby.
And if the Thrashers keep playing in front of Ondrej Pavelec the way they have been playing, Lehtonen absolutely will be available.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Oct 21, 2009 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you serious!!!
You really think that an AHL championship run has ANY relevance when we are talking about the NHL Stanley Cup?!!! Especially when he is 0-2 in Stanley Cup play including this total humiliation:
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 21, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huet helped get the Caps to the first round and then lost in the first round. Roly led the Wild into the third round in "03, the Oilers to the Finals in ‘06 (where he might well have won but for the injury, and more recently led Team Canada into the IIHF World Finals against Russia where they lost despite his tremendous play. I do not think that there is even a close comparison between the two when it comes to being a money goaltender. I have to believe that Roly will be the guy—both for his resume’ and his lower cap hit. And if washing out Huet’s cap hit does the trick, the Hawks may indeed get by with trading Skille and a pick for Roly and Dougie. Skille, BTW, is the Hawks’most NHL-ready blue chip prospect. He’s very good. Its just that the Hawks are so deep.
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 21, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skille, BTW, is the Hawks’most NHL-ready blue chip prospect. He’s very good. Its just that the Hawks are so deep.
I almost wouldn’t bother — I might want to barter a goalie to someone else (bidding war between Detroit and Chicago?)
Skille’s age 22 AHL season was not nearly as impressive as Jeff Tambellini’s age 22 AHL season nor Rob Schremp’s age 21 AHL season. I have my doubts, and so do others.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Oct 21, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So maybe Skille plus Chicago’s first round pick. It is sure to be a late round pick. If Weight is part of the deal, throw in the third rounder.
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 21, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say grab Huet
BC – I was under the impression that we take Huet and his contract therefor gurenantee not only Buff in the deal but also get Versteeg or Barker for a Biron and Sutton
by steelermafia on Oct 18, 2009 11:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure who suggested that to you. I haven’t. At one time, I was thinking that we take the poison pill of Huet and his contract to loosen the bottle cap to get Buff Daddy. I no longer think that is necessary. And I am quite sure that Chicago isn’t going to give away half of their franchise. I think they are coming to terms with the need to unload one of their big guns—probably Buff Daddy—and get a more reliable goalie. They would also like a tough stay at home defender and a good PP guy. We have Witter, but he would be bringing a salary they don’t want. So either Roly or Marty and Dougie for Buff Daddy. If Roly and Marty pick up their games and Huet is still ole-ing shots on net in a few months, it could happen.
by BCISLEMAN on Oct 19, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New Jersey
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58 | 36 | 20 | 2 | 74 |
|
Pittsburgh
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59 | 35 | 22 | 2 | 72 |
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Philadelphia
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New York Rangers
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New York Islanders
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Islanders Schedule
Next 5 Games
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Nashville
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Tue 02/09 | 7:00 PM EST |
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Pittsburgh
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Wed 02/10 | 7:30 PM EST |
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Tampa Bay
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Sat 02/13 | 2:00 PM EST |
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Ottawa
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Sun 02/14 | 5:00 PM EST |
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Chicago
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Tue 03/02 | 7:00 PM EST |
Last 5 Games
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Carolina
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Sat 02/06 | L 1 - 3 |
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Tampa Bay
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Thu 02/04 | L 2 - 5 |
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Florida
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Sun 01/31 | L 0 - 2 |
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Philadelphia
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Sat 01/30 | L 1 - 2 |
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Carolina
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Thu 01/28 | L 1 - 4 |
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